Author Topic: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?  (Read 587256 times)

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #630 on: January 03, 2013, 11:44:18 AM »
Heiwa, I am not approving your most recent post because you tried to moderate the discussion again. If being on moderation isn't enough to discourage that behaviour then maybe a ban will.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #631 on: January 03, 2013, 12:01:09 PM »
Heiwa:
Can you please clarify to status of Heiwa Co?

Your use  of the European union symbol and the use of "European Agency" on your Tripod.com would appear to imply some authority and linkup with the EU. Can you please clarify your authority to use the EU symbol?

Of course, you are light years off topic about the Heiwa €1M Challenges, but I can clarify anything (subject to Apollohoaxmoderator approval):

Heiwa Co is a European agency for Safety at Sea. It is based at Beausoleil, France, which is part of Europe. Beausoleil is a nice, land locked place with a view of the Mediterranean Sea. The Heiwa Co web site, http://heiwaco.tripod.com  is very popular with > 1 450 000 downloads.

It seems we citizens of member states of the European Union can use the EU flag to show that we are committed to European unity. So I have copied/pasted in my web site.


Weasel words. "Heiwa Co is a European agency for Safety at Sea". No it's not. It's a private concern and weasel words to imply that you have some authority or knowledge.


You see, I worked in Japan for 5 years in the 70's and could not really find any traces of atomic bomb explosions - http://heiwaco.tripod.com/bomb.htm . I find it strange.

Appeal to incredulity.
Just because you find something strange has no reflection on whether it happened or not.

I grew up in Ireland. I didn't see any evidence of the millions of deaths caused by the Great Famine. Should I also claim that it never happened???

"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Noldi400

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #632 on: January 03, 2013, 12:02:29 PM »
Let's keep the discussion limited to Heiwa's beliefs about space travel. His thoughts on 9/11 or atomic bombs are a whole other can of worms and I don't want to encourage Heiwa to go off on a tangent. Yes, they do say a lot about his credibility, but there are enough mistakes on his Apollo pages to make it clear that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Got it.

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So to clarify matters I offer €1M to do it ... clarify matters. To start with just explain how the first and only lunar orbit insertion maneuver was done.
(Emphasis mine)
By "first and only", do you mean to say that Apollo Missions 8,10,12,14,15,16, and 17 did not each perform a Lunar Orbit Insertion?  And, incidentally, the first LOI by a manned mission was Apollo 8.
"The sane understand that human beings are incapable of sustaining conspiracies on a grand scale, because some of our most defining qualities as a species are... a tendency to panic, and an inability to keep our mouths shut." - Dean Koontz

Offline ka9q

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #633 on: January 03, 2013, 12:03:01 PM »
Monopropellant hydrazine is typically used only when simplicity is more important than high performance, such as RCS thrusters.  These types of systems also have a small fuel load, so the trade off of having to keep the hydrazine warm is usually worth it.
I was surprised to learn that the Curiosity lander used monopropellant hydrazine (or so I understand). It carried hundreds of kg of hydrazine, much of which was unused when the rover cut it away.

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I have a vague memory that Surveyor might have used a dual-mode system, but I could be wrong about that.
Surveyor used a solid fuel retrorocket plus cold nitrogen thrusters for attitude control. It also had vernier engines that I think were bipropellant, but I'm not sure.
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I think MMH is also less toxic and a safer alternative for a manned vehicle.
Actually I think it's the most toxic of all the hydrazine derivatives. It's used because, as you say, it's a little denser than UDMH and provides somewhat better performance. It's used in the shuttle thrusters, as you say, and it was also used in the Apollo service module RCS (but not the LM, which shared the ascent stage's Aerozine-50 supply.)


Offline ka9q

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #634 on: January 03, 2013, 12:06:29 PM »
Let's keep the discussion limited to Heiwa's beliefs about space travel. His thoughts on 9/11 or atomic bombs are a whole other can of worms
I agree. Can you move my (and others') comments about nuclear weapons, etc, to a separate thread?

Offline gwiz

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #635 on: January 03, 2013, 12:19:55 PM »
By "first and only", do you mean to say that Apollo Missions 8,10,12,14,15,16, and 17 did not each perform a Lunar Orbit Insertion?  And, incidentally, the first LOI by a manned mission was Apollo 8.
Then there's all the unmanned missions, first the USSR, then the USA, Japan, European Space Agency, China and India.  Are they all faking it?
Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind - Terry Pratchett
...the ascent module ... took off like a rocket - Moon Man

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #636 on: January 03, 2013, 12:20:53 PM »
Can you move my (and others') comments about nuclear weapons, etc, to a separate thread?

Yep, I can. I'll do it a little bit later though because I'm busy with something at the moment.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline Andromeda

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #637 on: January 03, 2013, 12:41:56 PM »
Heiwa, do you have any connection with the European Maritime Safety Agency (EMSA)?
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline gillianren

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #638 on: January 03, 2013, 12:46:22 PM »
Two quick points, because pretty much everything has been covered nicely.

One, 2+2=5 is a simple equation, too.

Two, I must be misunderstanding something.  Why would a maritime safety agency be in a landlocked town, no matter how lovely the view of the sea?
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Offline nomuse

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #639 on: January 03, 2013, 12:53:13 PM »
Two quick points, because pretty much everything has been covered nicely.

One, 2+2=5 is a simple equation, too.

Two, I must be misunderstanding something.  Why would a maritime safety agency be in a landlocked town, no matter how lovely the view of the sea?

Better for everyone that way.


Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #640 on: January 03, 2013, 12:57:42 PM »
The easiest way to keep safe from the sea is to get as far away from it as possible.


(Edited to fix a typo)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 01:15:24 PM by LunarOrbit »
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline Andromeda

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #641 on: January 03, 2013, 12:59:18 PM »
It easiest way to keep safe from the sea is to get as far away from it as possible.

Us or Heiwa?
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Sus_pilot

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So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #642 on: January 03, 2013, 01:08:06 PM »
Two quick points, because pretty much everything has been covered nicely.

One, 2+2=5 is a simple equation, too.

Two, I must be misunderstanding something.  Why would a maritime safety agency be in a landlocked town, no matter how lovely the view of the sea?

Well,  2+2=5 (or, more usefully, x+y=z) is a very simple Boolean test I use all the time in queries to evaluate answers.  Kind of like looking at Heiwa's data, comparing it to reality, and determining that his is blatantly wrong.

In fairness, a maritime safety consultancy doesn't have to be on the ocean, if all you're doing is evaluating data.  Getting to the ship to do actual testing just runs up your expenses, that's all.

However, if I were a potential customer of Heiwa's and saw all this, I think I'd ask Lloyd's for another recommendation.

Offline Sus_pilot

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So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #643 on: January 03, 2013, 01:09:28 PM »
It easiest way to keep safe from the sea is to get as far away from it as possible.

Us or Heiwa?

Yes.

Offline Bob B.

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #644 on: January 03, 2013, 01:26:20 PM »
Surveyor used a solid fuel retrorocket plus cold nitrogen thrusters for attitude control. It also had vernier engines that I think were bipropellant, but I'm not sure.

The main retrorockets were definitely solid, with that I agree.  It's the vernier engines to which I was referring, which I'm pretty sure burned some derivative of hydrazine.  However, if the attitude control thrusters were cold gas then clearly it wasn't a dual mode system.

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Actually I think (MMH is) the most toxic of all the hydrazine derivatives.

If so, I stand corrected.