Author Topic: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?  (Read 580421 times)

Offline Andromeda

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #435 on: January 01, 2013, 01:28:52 PM »
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have Flounce Number Two.

Taking all bets on how long before he is back :)
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 01:35:38 PM by Andromeda »
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Bob B.

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #436 on: January 01, 2013, 01:29:13 PM »

One example is the Space Shuttle. 

Is it? Space Shuttle trying to get into Moon orbit? You are trolling off topic and should be warned.

What the heck are you talking about?

Offline nomuse

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #437 on: January 01, 2013, 01:29:24 PM »

It means that the three astrokrauts under Willy's command flew backwards, when braking to get into Moon orbit. The trajectory was evidently not straight as you curved into Moon orbit.

Most wacky description of a transfer orbit since that chap who thought a polar orbit meant you made tight little circles along the Arctic Circle.

So if Willy is flying the spacecraft, and Walter is doing the EVA, who is CAPCOM on your confused flight -- Richard?


Were the three asstronots piloting manually with compass/chart pushing the brake button?  ::)

Wow.  Just...wow.


Try to focus on topic and pls do not remind me how stupid or ignorant I am (not).

I'm sorry, but you are.  I was in a toy store yesterday and my companion pointed at a Snap-Tite Apollo kit and said "You should really get one of those for that idiot online you've been talking about.  You could use it to explain to him which spacecraft is which and how they fit."

The scale of your ignorance about Apollo is on the order of not knowing why sailboats have keels and being aghast at the idea that they might be able to beat into the wind.



Offline dwight

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #438 on: January 01, 2013, 01:34:03 PM »
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have Flounce Number Two.

Taking all bets on how long before he is back :)

All that money and no-one to give it to must have a price.

BTW a query: the LM descent stage rocket was throttleable and could be started numerous times, but the ascent stage rocket was a fire once only type, correct?
"Honeysuckle TV on line!"

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #439 on: January 01, 2013, 01:35:06 PM »
Try to keep to topic, i.e. So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?

You are NOT the moderator here, so quit trying to dictate how people respond to you. I know it's the only way you can make yourself look halfway competent and avoid answering questions, but tough.

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As I am offering the €1M award, you have to listen to me and ... be polite. Do not post nonsens posts that I am uneducated, blah, blah. Only uneducated idiots do that, so please avoid it.

We do not have to do ANYTHING when dealing with a man making such a blatantly fraudulent offer. You do not have the money and you have demonstrated you are unwilling to be told where you are wrong in your calculations and research therefore we conclude you have no intention of handing it over anyway. You are NOT in any position to dictate our conduct.
 
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In this case you also go backwards as you are braking - slowing down - and you are pressed into your seat while braking ... looking aft.

You think astronauts have to be able to see where they are going to do this?

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It is quite complicated and I wonder how the NASA pilots did it.

The information has been published ad nauseum for the last four decades. Your inability to understand it is the problem here.
 
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to win 1 million Euro you have to repeat it.

And there's the goalposts being shifted again. Every time we satisfy one set of conditions you say we have to do something else, and now you have elevated it to the point where it is impossible for us to satisfy the condition. You could not make it clearer how little intention you have of honouring your supposed offer of financial reward for meeting your challenge.

You are a farud and a liar. Prove me wrong.

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Navigation at sea is also complicated

Irrelevant, but for reasons you refuse to acknowledge. I particularly enjoyed your suggestion that sea voyages are scuppered by low tide, as if people haven't built deocks in places that don't actually end up dry at low tide.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #440 on: January 01, 2013, 01:36:02 PM »
Bye, bye!

Aw, another flounce, Heiwa? Got bored and fed up with your inability to persuade us you actually know a damn thing about, well, anything?
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline peter eldergill

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #441 on: January 01, 2013, 01:45:43 PM »
I think KA9Q mentioned using high school physics and Calculus.

I looked at the derivation of the rocket equation (which I had never heard of before) on Wikipedia.

The derivation is pretty straight forward, but it involves integral Calculus (or differential equations) which is beyond the high school level in Ontario and I'm guessing most of North America (I teach Calculus and some physics).

I would suspect the difficulty to be more of the first year university level.

Thanks everyone for the responses. I never even considered the fact that rocket stages are needed to drop so much mass. This is one of the reasons I don't design and launch rockets :)

Cheers

Pete

PS how is discussing how rockets work in any way off topic?

Offline Bob B.

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #442 on: January 01, 2013, 01:46:12 PM »
but the ascent stage rocket was a fire once only type, correct?

I seem to recall that on some missions the APS was fired in lunar orbit to perform part of the rendezvous maneuvers.  Of course the rendezvous procedures changed, so thus also did the maneuvers.  Many of the maneuvers where performed with the RCS, so it's possible the APS was never used, but for some reason I seem to remember that it was.  I can't keep track of all of the different engine firings without looking them up for each mission.

Offline Andromeda

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #443 on: January 01, 2013, 01:48:34 PM »
The derivation is pretty straight forward, but it involves integral Calculus (or differential equations) which is beyond the high school level in Ontario and I'm guessing most of North America (I teach Calculus and some physics).

I would suspect the difficulty to be more of the first year university level.

I didn't do the derivation of the rocket equation until my first year of undergrad (UK).
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline nomuse

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #444 on: January 01, 2013, 01:50:11 PM »
I'd have to read up, too.  My memory is that Apollo 13 used the "fire in the hole" scenario which strongly implies they could restart the ascent engine.  But for all I remember at the moment, they could have hotwired the service module for one of them!

Offline Mag40

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #445 on: January 01, 2013, 02:08:42 PM »
Bye, bye!



I guess finding the source for your figures was hard then.....abject humiliation. Suck it up.

Personally I'm just glad to read such informed replies....never too much to take in, but often a little hard to fully comprehend.

Offline cjameshuff

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #446 on: January 01, 2013, 02:15:38 PM »
As I am offering the €1M award, you have to listen to me and ... be polite. Do not post nonsens posts that I am uneducated, blah, blah. Only uneducated idiots do that, so please avoid it.

Pointing out your obvious and often willful ignorance of the topics involved is not an indication of lack of education on our part.

If you had actually demonstrated any desire to seriously discuss the issue, people might listen to you. Given your habit of ignoring information plainly in front of you and persisting in error, all while being outrageously rude and offensive yourself, far more than anyone else in this discussion...

Offline gillianren

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #447 on: January 01, 2013, 02:21:02 PM »
You know, if the topic really were the million Euros, wouldn't that mean we are all perfectly justified in asking for evidence of its existence?  And indeed, wouldn't not being willing to show that evidence be Heiwa's straying off-topic?  Why should we hold him to such a low standard as "trust me"?  We have provided him with lots of evidence and information (I even include myself in that, though obviously I didn't show near as much as most of the rest of you!), and he has brushed it aside.  We ask him to provide the simplest part of a monetary challenge--prove that the money even exists--and he gets all huffy.
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Offline dwight

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #448 on: January 01, 2013, 02:25:43 PM »
Heck I volunteer to fly to Scandinavia to see the account oozing in money (assuming that's where its held of course).
"Honeysuckle TV on line!"

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #449 on: January 01, 2013, 02:30:36 PM »
the LM descent stage rocket was throttleable and could be started numerous times, but the ascent stage rocket was a fire once only type, correct?

I could be wrong (I'm not an engineer), but as I understand it the three main engines of the Apollo spacecraft (APS, DPS and SPS) all used the same hypergolic fuel combination, and as such had just about the simplest design of any bipropellant rocket engine: open valves in the inlet pipes for fuel and oxidiser and they ignite and burn on contact in the engine. That suggests that a restart capability is not something that needs to be designed into them (unlike, for example, the J-2 engine, which has to fire up a bunch of pumps, have fuel diverted for cooling the engine bell, use an ignition system, and so on). If you open the valves the engine will burn.

I think the only limit to the number of burns is how well the engine itself survives the firing. The APS was designed to have one major burn: the lunar liftoff, but unless that burn rendered the engine entirely unusable I can't see any reason why it could not be fired again.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain