Author Topic: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?  (Read 588548 times)

Offline Count Zero

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #330 on: December 30, 2012, 10:20:38 PM »
Heiwa, thank you. You have provided a couple nights entertainment and a good education from reading the replies to your comments.
For this, I salute you, sir.

Index, ring & little fingers absent-but-accounted-for.
"What makes one step a giant leap is all the steps before."

Offline Andromeda

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #331 on: December 31, 2012, 03:23:02 AM »
I have a suspicion.    ;)

I assumed he got his figures from rectal pull.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Glom

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #332 on: December 31, 2012, 03:42:53 AM »
Well there we go. That figure is in agreement with my calculations. 10 tonnes of propellant consumed is about right.

Isn't it wonderful when everything works out? It's almost like this is all real.

Offline Daggerstab

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #333 on: December 31, 2012, 10:41:12 AM »
Well, this thread has had some impact: Björkman has revised his page. Apparently, instead of acknowledging some of the rebuttals here, he just modified his page. As a result, some of the quotes in my large post no longer appear on it. Good job I had archived the page before opening this thread. :)

For example, he has covered up his ignorance of the Apollo's RCS, but he still can't resist claiming that the CSM/LM movements were a problem:
Quote
In Earth orbit the CSM with three astronuts aboard carried out the following stunt: The CSM disconnected from the third stage and the Lunar Module stored there, rotated or flipped 180° and then connected to the top of the LM! Quite impressive! Imagine doing this at 7 500 m/s speed.

Umm, ever heard of "relative velocity", Heiwa? The transposition, docking and extraction that you were ignorant of (and still are) are possible for the same reason you can walk inside a flying airplane - or on the deck on a moving ship. And it was done after TLI, so the velocity of the whole stack was even greater.

And I'm addressing Heiwa because he apparently continues to read this thread after his flounce, resulting in prose like this:
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Self-appointed space craft propulsion experts evidently disagrees with above and suggest the energy disappears in the exhaust differently, if you are accelerating or braking in space, etc. Heiwa Co just tries to keep it simple studying the change in energy (MJ) of the pay load mass as a function of fuel (kg) used.

This evidently upsets many Apollo11hoaxsters! It goes, tradigcally, like this:

[quotes Glom's "redoing the calculation relatively properly" post]

The poor writer (Glom) has probably worked for NASA all his life producing this type of nonsense, science fiction propaganda and is now retired, divorced, alcholic, bankrupt and waiting to get ejected from his house due to non-payment of mortgages, taxes, allimonies and all sorts of dues before he dies and leaves the problems behind.

There are thus many strange contradictions and sensations about space craft propulsion.

Meltdown complete. :D Should we keep score? The "self-appointed spacecraft propulsion experts" bit is deliciously ironic.

A lot of the numbers also seem to have been re-jiggled, though I'm too lazy at the moment to compare them with the old ones.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 10:42:43 AM by Daggerstab »

Offline Andromeda

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #334 on: December 31, 2012, 10:53:20 AM »
That's libel.

Legal action, anyone?
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline raven

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #335 on: December 31, 2012, 10:58:06 AM »
Probably not worth the effort, but certainly a case.

Offline ka9q

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #336 on: December 31, 2012, 11:39:51 AM »
Quote
The poor writer (Glom) has probably worked for NASA all his life producing this type of nonsense,
And he insisted that we be polite to him if we wanted to collect his non-existent million euros...

Offline ka9q

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #337 on: December 31, 2012, 11:43:26 AM »
Quote
Quite impressive! Imagine doing this at 7 500 m/s speed.
That's nothing! Imagine just walking down the street while the earth orbits the sun at the breakneck speed of 30 000 m/s!

Offline Heiwa

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #338 on: December 31, 2012, 11:45:39 AM »
Björkman has revised his page.

Improved. Evidently thanks to input from friendly visitors and comment by you & Co. That's an advantage of the Internet/webpages. Easy to improve your page thanks to suggestions from intelligent people and then, click, click.

What do you think about the following addition on my page?
 
"Total fuel used by the LM for descent and ascent was 10 237 kg according [1] . How it was possible as the LM could only carry 8 777 kg fuel remains a mystery".

Offline Andromeda

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #339 on: December 31, 2012, 11:47:49 AM »
I knew you wouldn't be able to resist coming back!

I bet you haven't read all the replies since your flounce.  You've got some chutzpah, and it's not a good thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 11:50:34 AM by Andromeda »
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Glom

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #340 on: December 31, 2012, 11:50:47 AM »
That's libel.

Legal action, anyone?

You call that libel?  You know how we in Britain do libel.  I object to the insinuation I have financial troubles.  As a NASA propagandist, I have all the money I will ever need.

So, Heiwa, since you're listening, do you not agree when doing an energy balance equation that all energy needs to be taken into account?  Your idea of keeping it simple involves missing out terms in the equation and getting signs wrong.

Kinetic energy of spacecraft after burn + Kinetic energy of exhaust = Initial kinetic energy of spacecraft + Energy released from propellant combustion

That is true regardless of whether the burn is posigrade or retrograde.

This is in addition to you not recognising that you got your energy density number wrong and clearly you still don't know what TD&E is.

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #341 on: December 31, 2012, 11:51:44 AM »
Improved.

Adding libellous comments is not an improvement.

Quote
What do you think about the following addition on my page?
 
"Total fuel used by the LM for descent and ascent was 10 237 kg according [1] . How it was possible as the LM could only carry 8 777 kg fuel remains a mystery".

I want to know where you got those figures from. Cite your source.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Andromeda

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #342 on: December 31, 2012, 11:53:47 AM »
Improved.

Adding libellous comments is not an improvement.

Quote
What do you think about the following addition on my page?
 
"Total fuel used by the LM for descent and ascent was 10 237 kg according [1] . How it was possible as the LM could only carry 8 777 kg fuel remains a mystery".

I want to know where you got those figures from. Cite your source.

Like I said earlier, rectal pull.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline cos

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #343 on: December 31, 2012, 11:55:46 AM »
Heiwa, I think your website is an excellent warning that no one should hire you to even clean a toilet. Short of carrying a flashing neon sign saying 'Clueless' it fits the bill nicely. 

I bet you even think that the pointy end of a spaceship has to face the direction of travel. Keep them coming, you are a A grade clown.

Offline Glom

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #344 on: December 31, 2012, 12:03:36 PM »
What do you think about the following addition on my page?
 
"Total fuel used by the LM for descent and ascent was 10 237 kg according [1] . How it was possible as the LM could only carry 8 777 kg fuel remains a mystery".

Because your figures are wrong (again).  The LM's total propellant quantity was 10,600 kg (from the press kit).  You're counting only the descent stage propellants and forgetting (and more likely not understanding) the existence of ascent stage propellants.