Author Topic: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?  (Read 586807 times)

Offline Noldi400

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #255 on: December 30, 2012, 05:27:01 AM »
The orbiter doesn't fly "backwards." 

You are kindly invited to explain how the Shuttle manages to leave the ISS at 400 000 m altitude and velocity 7200 m/s and then, by using its engines manage to reduce altitude to say 120 000 m. The engines are aft so to do this maneuver the Shuttle flies backwards.
It seems the actual velocity (kinetic energy) increases due to loss of potential energy (change in altitude) so the velocity is 9000 m/s at entry Earth atmosphere at 120 000 m altitude.
Now, due to friction, the Shuttle starts to heat up - all of it - because there is no heat shield and one way or another the Shuttle turns with nose forward and starts to brake. How? Explain! Using wing flaps!
According some sources the Shuttle flies by autopilot most of the time during braking and the pilot only jumps in when speed is below that of sound at 340 m/s or so. But how did the Shuttle slow down from 9000 to 340 m/s without burning or braking up?

Evidently not the first clue about orbital mechanics, either. I think maybe he went to engineering school with Hunchbacked.
"The sane understand that human beings are incapable of sustaining conspiracies on a grand scale, because some of our most defining qualities as a species are... a tendency to panic, and an inability to keep our mouths shut." - Dean Koontz

Offline frenat

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #256 on: December 30, 2012, 08:44:14 AM »
The orbiter doesn't fly "backwards." 

You are kindly invited to explain how the Shuttle manages to leave the ISS at 400 000 m altitude and velocity 7200 m/s and then, by using its engines manage to reduce altitude to say 120 000 m. The engines are aft so to do this maneuver the Shuttle flies backwards.
It seems the actual velocity (kinetic energy) increases due to loss of potential energy (change in altitude) so the velocity is 9000 m/s at entry Earth atmosphere at 120 000 m altitude.
Now, due to friction, the Shuttle starts to heat up - all of it - because there is no heat shield and one way or another the Shuttle turns with nose forward and starts to brake. How? Explain! Using wing flaps!
According some sources the Shuttle flies by autopilot most of the time during braking and the pilot only jumps in when speed is below that of sound at 340 m/s or so. But how did the Shuttle slow down from 9000 to 340 m/s without burning or braking up?

the shuttle has no heat shield?  All those tiles were for the bathroom floor?
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Offline frenat

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #257 on: December 30, 2012, 08:46:13 AM »
Are there any manned space flights that this guy doesn't think are faked?
Answer is in link given in post #1. And this guy is Heiwa - a gentle, intelligent first class engineer, etc, but he is not the topic here. The topic is the info given in the link in post #1. Try to focus on topic and not on author of topic.
He most certainly IS the topic here.  He has made claims he has not backed up (like being an engineer) and has repeatedly IGNORED answers given to him.

HE is a troll.

-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension.
 -Never let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
 -There are no bad ideas, just great ideas that go horribly wrong.

Offline ka9q

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #258 on: December 30, 2012, 08:48:22 AM »
Evidently not the first clue about orbital mechanics, either. I think maybe he went to engineering school with Hunchbacked.
I think this guy makes Hunchbacked look positively sane.

What is it about French 'engineers' anyway? I mean, they must have some pretty competent ones somewhere, they do have a major role in ESA...

Offline Inanimate Carbon Rod

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #259 on: December 30, 2012, 08:54:24 AM »
Can LunarOrbit lock this thread? This is going nowhere fast.
Formerly Supermeerkat. Like you care.

Offline frenat

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #260 on: December 30, 2012, 09:17:51 AM »
Can LunarOrbit lock this thread? This is going nowhere fast.

Oh, I don't know.  It is mildly entertaining seeing how long Heiwa can keep up his facade of being an engineer.  And how long he can blatantly ignore the answers giving him.  And how long he can refuse to prove there is any money at all.
-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension.
 -Never let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
 -There are no bad ideas, just great ideas that go horribly wrong.

Offline Andromeda

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"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Heiwa

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #262 on: December 30, 2012, 09:51:35 AM »
Are there any manned space flights that this guy doesn't think are faked?
Answer is in link given in post #1. And this guy is Heiwa - a gentle, intelligent first class engineer, etc, but he is not the topic here. The topic is the info given in the link in post #1. Try to focus on topic and not on author of topic.

Please share your C.V., since, by claiming you're a "first class engineer", you've made yourself the topic.

You have to go to post #1 and the link there and then on to my CV, etc, etc. I wrote an interesting article in Journal of Engineering Mechanics some years back about why the WTC-towers could not globally progressively collapse from top down as seen live on TV in USA and you find a copy there. Very popular are my books about the M/S Estonia 1994 accident killing almost 1000 people.


Offline Andromeda

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #263 on: December 30, 2012, 10:00:24 AM »
Are there any manned space flights that this guy doesn't think are faked?
Answer is in link given in post #1. And this guy is Heiwa - a gentle, intelligent first class engineer, etc, but he is not the topic here. The topic is the info given in the link in post #1. Try to focus on topic and not on author of topic.

Please share your C.V., since, by claiming you're a "first class engineer", you've made yourself the topic.

You have to go to post #1 and the link there and then on to my CV, etc, etc. I wrote an interesting article in Journal of Engineering Mechanics some years back about why the WTC-towers could not globally progressively collapse from top down as seen live on TV in USA and you find a copy there. Very popular are my books about the M/S Estonia 1994 accident killing almost 1000 people.

How many times must you be told that we will not visit your website due to the malware issue, the rules of this forum and our reluctance to provide you with hits?  Several of us have told you to knock it off, yet you keep doing it.  Why?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 10:02:24 AM by Andromeda »
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #264 on: December 30, 2012, 10:07:30 AM »
Just for fun, a summary of the more amusing gaffes made by Heiwa to show how little research he actually has under his belt:

Apollo 4 apparently went around the Moon.

Apollo 13 supposedly came out of lunar orbit with the LM still attached.

He has no idea who Walter Cronkite is.

He knows nothing of the RCS systems on Apollo or the shuttle, thinking that the shuttle enters the atmosphere backwards. Though he apparently does not query how it got to be pointing backwards after entering orbit pointing forwards in the first place.

The shuttle apparently has no heat shield.

He thinks the Tsiolkovsky equation, derived and used specifically for the purposes of calculating fuel requirements in space flight, has nothing to do with the problem of how Apollo performed its various manouevres using fuel in space.

He uses terms like 'direction and velocity' and 'inertia forces'.

He considers sea travel to be similar to space travel, despite the obvious lack of an up or down deviation in course on any sea voyage.

Apparently your legs need to be much more powerful to let you walk on a moving plane than they do on the ground because of the huge difference in kinetic energy involved in the two cases.

So, Heiwa, any reason we should take you seriously as a competent researcher into Apollo?

Oh, and he can't read the sources with the numbers he needs even when they are presented here multiple times.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Andromeda

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #265 on: December 30, 2012, 10:17:38 AM »
I've said it before, I'll say it again.  Rah rah!
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline cjameshuff

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #266 on: December 30, 2012, 10:18:46 AM »
Or ignore the airplane for a moment and just think about Earth's rotation.  Bruce Lee's one-inch punch; if he stands at the Equator, is the punch more powerful if he is facing towards the East or facing towards the West?

Or Earth's 30 km/s motion relative to the sun. Or the sun's ~220 km/s motion relative to the galaxy. Or the several hundreds of km/s of motion of the galaxy relative to other galaxies. Etc...

Heiwa doesn't even pick a consistent reference for measuring velocity, but switches around. You can analyze orbital maneuvers in terms of energy, but you have to do it in much more attention to detail, taking the energy of the exhaust, potential energy, etc into account...it's simpler when dealing with spacecraft maneuvers to work in terms of momentum. And you certainly have to account for consumption of propellant over time. That claim that the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation has nothing to do with it makes it clear that Heiwa is either completely dishonest or completely (and willfully) ignorant of the subject.

Offline Heiwa

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #267 on: December 30, 2012, 10:21:04 AM »


AA. Ever flown in a passneger aircraft? ...

BB. So, how much kinetic energy do you have when stationary ...

CC. and when walking at 5 km/h?

DD. The average cruising speed of a passenger plane is about 800 km/h. How much kinetic energy do you have when seated travelling at 800 km/h and ...

EE. how much do you have when walking forward the length of the cabin, when you would be going at 805 km/h?

According to your own methods, and assuming you have the average mass of 71 kg for a European human, there is a difference of 68.5 J when walking from a standing start and about 22 KJ while on the plane. Are your legs suddenly really 320 times more powerful during flight?!

But i don't expect you will take any notice of that. Your inability to comprehend the mathematics is either the result of stubbornnesss, ignorance, plain stupidity or else you really don't believe a word you say and are just trolling for your own amusement. I can't decide which is more pathetic, to be honest.

AA. I have never travelled in a passneger aircraft!
BB. 0
CC. 0.9645 J/kg
DD. 24 691 J/kg
EE.  25 001 J/kg

You are thus right that multiplying with 71 kg I get 0 J, 68.5 J, 1753.1 kJ and 1775.0 kJ difference of the two last one being 22 kJ, which is the difference in kinetic energy of the walking 71 kg person on the plane.

As the mass remains 71 kg everywhere the load on the person's legs remains the same.

Are you upset that you don not qualify to win 1 million Euro (topic)?

Offline raven

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #268 on: December 30, 2012, 10:21:37 AM »
... you are referring to Apollo 13, yes?
It never entered lunar orbit. Rather, after the explosion, the LM descent stage made a burn to put the CSM/LM stack *back* into the free return trajectory, looping around the moon, that would return it back to Earth, a pretty minor change in velocity. The figures are easily available.

Hm, ... free return trajectory, looping around the moon, minor change in velocity ... no fuel consumed ? ... figures easily available. It does not sound convincing. Suggest you explain how Apollo 13 managed to change direction in space and get back to Earth and fuel consumed for the maneuver.
You admit things can *get* into Earth orbit, yes? You've claimed shuttle sightings were just a fake satellite sent up to fool people, yes? But once they are in orbit, not spending any fuel, *they're flight is *constantly* looping, loops that loop back on themselves, constantly changing direction relative to the body being orbited. Heck, the same could be said of the moon around the Earth and the Earth around the Sun.
The answer is gravity.
And, yes, the figures are easily available. Such as right here on page 28 of the PDF.
Apollo 13 did have to spend some fuel to get back into a free return trajectory, but, once it was done, to quote the film based on the events in question, they "put Sir Isaac Newton in the driver's seat" though they did later burns to speed up and get home faster.
Oh, and are you still going to try to claim the figures and information on the ablative thermal shielding for Apollo are some kind of secret?
It's Not a Secret!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 10:24:52 AM by raven »

Offline Heiwa

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Re: So, who wants to win 1 million Euro?
« Reply #269 on: December 30, 2012, 10:24:57 AM »
Just for fun, a summary of the more amusing gaffes made by Heiwa to show how little research he actually has under his belt:

...

He considers sea travel to be similar to space travel, despite the obvious lack of an up or down deviation in course on any sea voyage.

...

I am getting sea sick. The landlubber thinks there is no up or down deviation at sea.  :o ???