Author Topic: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco  (Read 1258 times)

Offline apollo16uvc

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American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« on: August 24, 2020, 02:49:42 PM »


Has man really been to the moon? It’s been 50 years, and the debate rages on. For the firs time, a film compiles in a single piece of work, all the best evidence in favor of the moon landings and the evidence contrary to them. For the first time we can also analyze the Apollo pictures in detail, with the aid of some among the top photographers in the world. What was the Apollo project really? The biggest achievement in the history of mankind, or the biggest fakery of all times, watched on live television by more than half a billion people?
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Offline Jeff Raven

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2020, 06:09:47 PM »
There was a guy (with multiple accounts) over on Yahoo who used to spam the comment section of any and every story that was even tangentially related to NASA with references to this movie. I haven't watched it (3.5 hours is a bit much for a casual watch, and for a long time you had to buy it), just read some reviews of some of its content.  What is your opinion on it?

Online Peter B

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2020, 09:53:10 PM »
I just skimmed the first hour. While it pays a lot more attention to the facts than most HBs, it still dismisses them incorrectly:

- Jim Webb's resignation was a mystery;
- Wally Schirra's resignation was a mystery;
- Werner von Braun's visit to Antarctica was suspicious;
- TV signals from the Moon could be faked;
- Lunar meteorites from Antarctica could be the source of the Apollo rocks...

That sort of rubbish.

Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2020, 03:27:27 AM »
There was a guy (with multiple accounts) over on Yahoo who used to spam the comment section of any and every story that was even tangentially related to NASA with references to this movie. I haven't watched it (3.5 hours is a bit much for a casual watch, and for a long time you had to buy it), just read some reviews of some of its content.  What is your opinion on it?

It may come across as more fair and professional than most hoax films but it's still fucking wrong about almost everything in the end.

Like seriously, film and camera's jamming at 40 degrees Fahrenheit? I guess nobody told the thousands of people that took film photos AND 8/16/35mm motion picture film in Antarctica and other fucking cold places.

And of course it doesn't get that transfer of heat (Either to get hotter.or colder) would be very gradual. The TV camera on the LRV had a temp sensor and I haven't seen any greadings on it, but they never had to shut it down I believe...
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Offline benparry

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2020, 04:18:35 AM »
One guy who pushes this quite a lot runs a company called FlyBy news. He would fit into the hardcore category. Literally every time i have a discussion with him he pushes this video. I suspected it was his for a while in the same way Pascal pushes his videos

Offline benparry

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2020, 04:37:32 AM »
Another guy who hangs a lot off this is called Rasa Vahirri. Not sure if his name is known in Hoax Circles

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2020, 12:06:57 PM »
Same old same old. There's nothing here. Apparently debunkers don't understand the subject enough to understand things properly.

It also does the usual trick of taking fragments of data in isolation and trying to use that as proof.

For example, the moon rocks. No, a moon rock on its own is not evidence of the Apollo landings. Corroborating film, TV and photgraphic images of that sample where the details in them match every orbital image ever taken since the missions, where the transmissions showing their collection were received by dishes pointing at the moon, where the hardware used to travel there and collect those samples has been imaged from lunar orbit along with other evidence of human activity at the landing sites, where images of Earth broadcast during those sample collection missions match exactly the images takn by weather satellites, where things behave exactly as they should in lunar gravity, all those things combined act as proof.

Likewise the LRRR. Yes, you can get a signal return from the moon, but not with the same level of response. Yes, unmanned proves could be a reflector, but we have evidence of the LRRR being placed and so on and so on and so on.
 
It does nothing but collate the usual suspects into one place. JAQs off for 3 hours and proves nothing. Starting from a premise of "it could have been faked" does not prove that it was.

Offline Jeff Raven

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2020, 12:21:42 PM »
Okay, I was able to slog through about 45 minutes. It's definitely better produced than a lot of the HB videos, but it really does hit the bingo card pretty consistently: things taken out of context, jumps to conclusions (especially of the "it can only mean" variety), ignoring evidence, inventing or assuming other evidence or motives ...   As others have said, same old, same old.

I haven't gotten to the "photographic experts" part yet. I read somewhere (can't remember where right now) that at least one of the pictures the producers showed the photographers was a composite - it will be interesting to see if that's true, and if they disclosed that fact or not.

Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2020, 02:14:28 PM »
Okay, I was able to slog through about 45 minutes. It's definitely better produced than a lot of the HB videos, but it really does hit the bingo card pretty consistently: things taken out of context, jumps to conclusions (especially of the "it can only mean" variety), ignoring evidence, inventing or assuming other evidence or motives ...   As others have said, same old, same old.

I haven't gotten to the "photographic experts" part yet. I read somewhere (can't remember where right now) that at least one of the pictures the producers showed the photographers was a composite - it will be interesting to see if that's true, and if they disclosed that fact or not.
The composite is the one made by Ed Hengeveld, with the full LM composited from several missions and the "sun" -bright spot- pasted in.

Ed actually told me he regrets making that composite now, because it has been used by hoaxers endlessly. It is put together with similar photos in the same map without any disclosure to the viewer or photography expert.
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Online Peter B

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2020, 01:12:45 AM »
Okay, I was able to slog through about 45 minutes. It's definitely better produced than a lot of the HB videos, but it really does hit the bingo card pretty consistently: things taken out of context, jumps to conclusions (especially of the "it can only mean" variety), ignoring evidence, inventing or assuming other evidence or motives ...   As others have said, same old, same old.

I haven't gotten to the "photographic experts" part yet. I read somewhere (can't remember where right now) that at least one of the pictures the producers showed the photographers was a composite - it will be interesting to see if that's true, and if they disclosed that fact or not.
The composite is the one made by Ed Hengeveld, with the full LM composited from several missions and the "sun" -bright spot- pasted in.

Ed actually told me he regrets making that composite now, because it has been used by hoaxers endlessly. It is put together with similar photos in the same map without any disclosure to the viewer or photography expert.

There's nothing he needs to regret.

There are plenty of resources showing (for example) the entire photographic record, and enough people like us who know the photos' numbering system. It's therefore reasonably straightforward to demand the ID of a claimed photo and cross check it against other records.

ETA: This thread is an example: https://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=1788.0
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 01:16:13 AM by Peter B »

Offline Mag40

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2020, 05:40:28 AM »
Many on here are familiar with the internet failure who calls himself Rocky/Cosmored/Scott/Fatfreddy, but I've been lurking on the Political Forum where he routinely gets his arguments destroyed by a bloke called Betamax101. So it was with much joy that his latest forage into his online humiliation actually uncovered a gem of irrefutable proof.

On the American Moon video at 2:07:20 the announcer begins by showing the rover completely covered in dust and this is clearly the case. It is all around the area where that box is(I have no idea what the box is). He then shows the box lid being pushed shut and the tiniest of puffs occurs on the corner. Now his argument is that if it was a vibration(and clearly it is) how come nowhere else was disturbed, but, and it is a great big but, he fails to realise that the falling lid creates a draft that would blow dust everywhere. It doesn't.

Just that tiny clip proves they are in a vacuum and it is a segment from a longer sequence - if anyone cares to identify from where that would make this even more conclusive that it was on the Moon.

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2020, 04:23:29 PM »
Dammit now I had to go find it :D

It's at the start of EVA-2, the battery covers were left open at the end of the EVA to allow them to cool off and then covered over again at the start.

Here's the relevant bit of the ALSJ:

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16.eva2prelim.html

Quote
143:08:00 Duke: John, make sure that I did all the things on (the ETB unload on CDR-5)...The ETB is emptied, and magazine Lima is on the camera - (the) 500 - and all the other film is stowed.

[A puff of dust flies off the battery cover as it falls shut. John then presses the cover with his right hand.]

and a link to the relevant video here https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1430752.mpg

Offline Mag40

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2020, 06:28:54 AM »
Dammit now I had to go find it :D

It's at the start of EVA-2, the battery covers were left open at the end of the EVA to allow them to cool off and then covered over again at the start.

Here's the relevant bit of the ALSJ:

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16.eva2prelim.html

Quote
143:08:00 Duke: John, make sure that I did all the things on (the ETB unload on CDR-5)...The ETB is emptied, and magazine Lima is on the camera - (the) 500 - and all the other film is stowed.

[A puff of dust flies off the battery cover as it falls shut. John then presses the cover with his right hand.]

and a link to the relevant video here https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16v.1430752.mpg

You've got much more patience than me, I gave up after half an hour! It is so obvious that the dust is on the side of the bottom bit. It just falls off from the lid banging down. Does anyone know what the cylindrical thing is just in front of the battery cover? It looks caked in dust.

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2020, 08:32:27 AM »
At a guess it's the steering motor. The mechanism for turning the wheels is an interesting subject in itself, and one which a certain Welsh idiot made a spectacular fool of himself over recently.

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: American Moon by Massimo Mazzucco
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2020, 11:24:24 AM »
The Political Forum thread has gish-galloped away away from American Moon and has brought in the 'spotlights in visors' nonsense, particularly this one, AS12-48-7071:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/projectapolloarchive/21469415470/in/album-72157658982137872/

I've often wondered what caused that one, and Betamax attrbutes it to a smudge on the visor. Entirely likely, but then I spotted the folds of the helmet cover along the edge of the visor. If you invert the 'smudge' in the visor and place it alongside the material immediately above it, you get this:



It looks to me like the smudge is more like a reflection of the stuff above the visor. Reasonable? Spotted a million times already?