Author Topic: M B Raja - hoax video  (Read 2259 times)

Offline Dead Hoosiers

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M B Raja - hoax video
« on: June 24, 2020, 03:53:03 AM »
I don't know whether we went to the moon or not. I wish I could know for sure.  Normally these videos trying to debunk the moon landing bore me, but this one is more interesting than others I've seen. Why haven't we gone back?  Or have we?

[url]https://myinnerengineering.com/2019/07/25/video-how-and-why-we-went-to-the-moon-what-actually-happened/[/url) 

Sorry, i can't remember how to post videos, but you can cut and paste.

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2020, 04:01:47 AM »
I don't know whether we went to the moon or not. I wish I could know for sure.

Then the question is why do you doubt it and what would convince you? Without answers to these questions it is hard to discuss.

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Why haven't we gone back?

Because it is ridiculously expensive and no country in the world has been willing to do it. Public support for a government-funded crewed lunar exploration program dried up after we beat the Russians and after the TV showed hours and hours of (mostly) faceless spacesuited men walking around a grey barren landscape picking up rocks and soil. I've seen it all, it's dull enough even for a space exploration enthusiast like me, and I wasn't one of the generation being asked to fund it with my taxes.

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https://myinnerengineering.com/2019/07/25/video-how-and-why-we-went-to-the-moon-what-actually-happened/

Generally it is easier to discuss a video if you can provide any specific questions arising from it. If I sit through a 45 minute video, how am I to know which parts of it caught your interest?

What is it, specifically, that makes you doubt the authenticity of the Apollo lunar landings?
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Dead Hoosiers

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2020, 05:12:23 AM »
There is never before seen footage (supposedly),  showing that the transmissions were edited and not live, James Web (sp) resigning days before the mission and the astronauts resigning shortly afterwards,  the astronauts' apparent reluctance to be interviewed, and just the way the whole thing was debunked is very believable. 

I posted this thinking people would enjoy debunking some or all of it. 

Offline Miss Vocalcord

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2020, 05:52:23 AM »
There is never before seen footage (supposedly),  showing that the transmissions were edited and not live, James Web (sp) resigning days before the mission and the astronauts resigning shortly afterwards,  the astronauts' apparent reluctance to be interviewed, and just the way the whole thing was debunked is very believable. 

I posted this thinking people would enjoy debunking some or all of it.
That is Bart Sibrel's "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon" , it has already been fully debunked many times (just search this forum/google), recently e.g. by RanB on this forum:


https://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=1743.0

Offline smartcooky

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2020, 07:44:35 AM »
There is a saying "its so old, it's new again"; which really means, its so old that the moon hoax noobs aren't old enough to have seen it all before, so they think its new.

It is as clear an indication as any that there is nothing new in moon hoax nutjobbery, that the only thing anyone brings up these days is the same tired old rubbish that has been repeatedly debunked by numerous debunkers over the last 30+ years





Oh, and did I hear someone mention Bart Sibrel? Oh goody!!!

While I abhor violence, I will always make an exception for this little gem...  :)








 
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Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2020, 08:03:50 AM »
There is never before seen footage (supposedly),

Never before seen by the producer of the video doesn't equate to never before seen by anyone.

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showing that the transmissions were edited and not live,

Nope, showing something the producer does not expect to see and therefore he leaps to the conclusion it was faked.

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James Web (sp) resigning days before the mission

When and why people resign from positions in large projects is open to many interpretations. The ones alleging foul play are usually based on a naive belief in how one 'should' behave held by people who would never be in such a position and cannot possibly judge.

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and the astronauts resigning shortly afterwards,

If one sets a goal and achieves it, what does one do next? Some stay on and keep going, others look for other challenges. Again, the naive belief in how they 'should' behave is the sole basis for assuming suspicion.

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the astronauts' apparent reluctance to be interviewed,

Reluctance to be interviewed by whom? By the producer of a video that alleges they are frauds? Yes, I'd be reluctant in their place.

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and just the way the whole thing was debunked is very believable.

It's supposed to be believable. That doesn't make it right.

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I posted this thinking people would enjoy debunking some or all of it.

We would, but as I said, I prefer specific things rather than just 'here's a video, pick it to pieces'. As has been pointed out already, this is actually such an old one we've almost forgotten how often it has been debunked.

I'll add one more aspect to it: Bart Sibrel is afraud and a liar who cares not one jot for truth but only for making a name for himself. Two specific things that lead me to that conclusion are:

1: He made a video called 'Astronauts Gone Wild', in which he 'invites' the Apollo astronauts to swear on a bible that they really walked on the Moon. By this time they all knew who he was and what he was out to prove, so naturally he got short shrift from them. He spun a whole video out of their reactions, alleging that their response to him, and their unwillingness to swear on the bible, proves they have something to hide. However, three astronauts did swear on his bible they walked on the Moon. Did that change his view? Not one jot. The ones who refused are afraid to lie in the face of God, while the ones who did swear are so unscrupulous that they are even lying in the face of God. His sole aim to is promote the hoax rubbish and make a name for himself by doing so.

2: I contacted him myself and asked about one of his claims: specifically the 5-to-1 superiority in manned spaceflight time he claims the Russians had. I asked him at what point they had this superiority, and he gave a window of time that encompassed Project Gemini. I asked him if the figures included Project Gemini. He said yes. I asked him how that could be since Project Gemini massively increased US time in space over and above Russian flights, and that there were no corresponding flights by the USSR during that period. He refused point blank to name his source and said I would have to buy his video to find the answer. Once I had him at a point he could not answer he shifted to marketing. Again, he only wants to make money.

See here for a summary

He's a charlatan, plain and simple.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 08:07:34 AM by Jason Thompson »
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline JayUtah

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2020, 09:39:12 AM »
I posted this thinking people would enjoy debunking some or all of it.

It's been done, and not just by us here.  Here's the first of seven or eight pages where I review it.  Click the "next" buttons at the bottom to go to each new page.  Sorry in advance for the missing photos.

http://www.clavius.org/bibfunny1.html

If you want to skip ahead where I talk about the supposedly secret footage, that's here: http://www.clavius.org/bibfunny1.html
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Dead Hoosiers

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2020, 10:45:08 AM »
Thanks Miss Vocalchord and Jay Utah. I searched the site for mb raja, not being familiar with the Sibrel name. I'll check it out.

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2020, 11:05:29 AM »
About that 'unseen footage'...


Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2020, 11:32:07 AM »
Bart Sibrel is why I got into debunking Apollo conspiracy theories almost 20 years ago. My first foray into this world was in 2001 after Fox aired their "Conspiracy Theory: Did we land on the Moon?" show, which Sibrel was interviewed for (I think he might have been a producer for it too). He was hawking his "documentary" in the Fox forums at the time and I had a number of interactions with him.

So yeah, most of us have been aware of his video for a long time. You might find more discussion of it on our old forum, but even that would have been years after Sibrel became irrelevant.
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Online Zakalwe

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2020, 03:31:48 PM »
There is never before seen footage (supposedly),

Don't be lazy...have another look.

showing that the transmissions were edited and not live,
Even if they were (and they weren't) all that would show is that that weren't live. So what?

James Web (sp) resigning days before the mission
And?
People retire all the time.


the astronauts resigning shortly afterwards
Don't be lazy. Have you bothered to see how many retired and how many didn't?  John Young worked in NASA for 42 years and retired in 2004. Kinda shoots that theory to pieces, now doesn't it?

the astronauts' apparent reluctance to be interviewed
Which astronauts? If you mean the Apollo 11 astronauts do you even realise that they went on a 38 day tour of the world, visited 22 countries and gave multiple interviews over those 38 days. Don't be lazy and do some research.

just the way the whole thing was debunked is very believable. 
The missions have never been de-bunked. Not once.  Despite there been tens of thousands of pieces of evidence supporting the missions as having happened exactly as described, not one single piece of evidence has ever been shown to be at odds. That's in spite of some of the evidence (the samples, for example) being forensically examined by scientists and specialists from all over the world.
On the other side, no conspiracy theory has ever stood up to even the slightest inspection. Not once, in 50 years of trying has any conspiracy nutjob ever produced a single piece of documentation or evidence that incontrovertibly showed the missions to be falsified in anyway.

So tell me again how the "whole thing was debunked". Let me guess- you can't.


I don't know whether we went to the moon or not.

Don't be so lazy. Go and do a bit of research and make an effort to educate yourself.

but this one is more interesting than others I've seen.

 It's an old video from a taxi-driver who was trying to make a few bucks. It's been kicking around for donkey's years. Looks like you can't even be bothered to put any effort in, now doesn't it?


Why haven't we gone back?

Here's one for you. When did we first descend to the deepest part of the ocean? How long was it before we went again? Does this mean that the first mission was a hoax?

https://myinnerengineering.com

Why would you think that a website full of the crank conspiracy theories of one headbanger is a reputable source? That tells me more about you and how you "learn" things that you will ever know. And, of course, that crank website has a 5G conspiracy theory, naturally.
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Online Zakalwe

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2020, 03:35:33 PM »
<sigh>
Today's moon landing hoax headbangers are just so lazy, aren't they? At least *some* of the guys from years ago made a bit of an effort, even though they were all totally incorrect. At least a few of them bothered to put a bit of a shift in and didn't just regurgitate someone else's nonsense that they saw on YouTube.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Dead Hoosiers

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2020, 06:52:46 PM »
How dare you, you pompous little jacanapes? You interrupted my reading of Jay  Utah's in depth article posted above (which is actually very informative), and believe you me, no lazy person would undertake to do that...it would be too difficult, like asking questions instead of spewing boring, off target, hateful garbage. You didn't even have the wit to notice I was seeking information and didn't claim the video had merit.  That's because I'm not a scientist, so I turned to the scientists on this board for information. I don't know what you are. Well, actually I do, but I don't want to get banned for my first discussion in 7 years.

Offline Jeff Raven

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2020, 09:46:44 PM »
How dare you, you pompous little jacanapes? You interrupted my reading of Jay  Utah's in depth article posted above (which is actually very informative), and believe you me, no lazy person would undertake to do that...it would be too difficult, like asking questions instead of spewing boring, off target, hateful garbage. You didn't even have the wit to notice I was seeking information and didn't claim the video had merit.  That's because I'm not a scientist, so I turned to the scientists on this board for information. I don't know what you are. Well, actually I do, but I don't want to get banned for my first discussion in 7 years.

You weren't seeking information, as you didn't ask any specific questions, only vague ones. As Miss Vocalcoard said, this is just a copy of Sibrel's poorly done video. I'm surprised you didn't recognize it, especially as the narrator has a rather distinctive voice.

I would also give a friendly suggestion to avoid even the appearance of personal attacks, including name-calling, which you hinted at. The regulars here are incredibly helpful as well as patient, and LO also is willing to forgive honest mistakes, but there's a limit. If you've been here for 7 years, you know that if you post genuine questions or points of view, especially if they are well-reasoned and specific, you will get good responses from those that know.

If this was an attempt at humor/satire/sarcasm, it missed, at least in my opinion.

Offline Halcyon Dayz, FCD

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Re: M B Raja - hoax video
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2020, 03:37:14 AM »
James Web (sp) resigning days before the mission
James Webb retired October 7 1968, his 62nd birthday, 4 days before the start of Apollo 7, which is not the mission.
More relevant here would be the upcoming presidential elections in November.

the astronauts resigning shortly afterwards,
"Shortly"
Yet another misleadingly vague term.

The Apollo 11 crew specifically retired "shortly" after their mission because they knew they would never be allowed to fly in space again.
They were national heroes, to valuable as symbols to risk their lives.
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