Author Topic: Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)  (Read 3386 times)

Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2020, 03:56:43 PM »
Not really comfortable working on that kind of footage...

Feel free to give it your own shot, scroll down some to get a download: https://www.patreon.com/DAINAPP

You need a nvidia card with at least 4GB of memory if you want 360p...

Oh, and a high-quality source is paramount of you want usable results. And its prob going to take a few hours...
« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 04:08:41 PM by apollo16uvc »
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2020, 11:30:36 AM »
Not really comfortable working on that kind of footage...

Understandable.

Quote
You need a nvidia card with at least 4GB of memory if you want 360p...

Oh, and a high-quality source is paramount of you want usable results. And its prob going to take a few hours...

I have no problem obtaining computing capacity.  ;D
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2020, 08:36:10 AM »
RTX 3000 series cards are just a few months away, those are going to be at least 40 to 60% faster than the 2000 series. And much cheaper.
Thanks to AMD getting back into the game and absolutely crushing INTEL on every front.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 10:21:46 AM by apollo16uvc »
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Offline Count Zero

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Re: Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2020, 12:58:09 PM »
Beautiful!  I find it much easier to follow the action and understand what he's doing.  As always, I like seeing those fans of dust flying out from his footfalls in the airless, low-gee environment.
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Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2020, 01:39:21 PM »
Would like to know your opinions on something:

After how much transformation of the original, public-domain content does material become derivative work on which the transformer can apply his own copyright? By which measurement?
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2020, 03:16:33 PM »
The question is a legal one, and as with all legal questions the answer is, "It depends."

Peter Kuran was able to claim copyright on Trinity and Beyond.  That's classified as "restoration," and that's copyrightable.  Applying creative techniques to enhance source material and correcting the effects of age is intellectual property.  Of course Kuran also produced original material to explain and dramatically frame his source footage, so the question of copyright on the entire opus doesn't really present a legal difficulty.  But, for example, if you were to use his cleaned-up and enhanced footage of nuclear-device tests he would have a strong copyright claim against you.

You have taken public domain material and applied various commonly-available tools to produce a cleaned-up, interpolated version.  You're adding material to what was there, which was created by you, and modifying the existing material according to decisions that you make on how to apply the tools.  That's creative content, and you are entitled to claim copyright in it.  The question, "by what measure?" is best answered by stating to what degree you applied expertise or artistic/aesthetic judgment in producing the final result.

The bar you have to clear in order to be an "author" as far as copyright goes is fairly low.  Someone defending an infringement claim you might bring, on the grounds that you have merely repackaged public-domain content, would have to show that the process by which you produced your version was so inconsequential and automatic that it amounted to nothing creative.  I haven't yet looked at the tools, so I have no informed opinion for how much skill it takes to operate them, or what creative choices are possible.  But in general, any substantial transformation you make to public domain material is copyrightable if there is a chance that someone else can make similar choices differently.  For example, Mark Gray is able to claim copyright on many of his Spacecraft Films DVDs because he has edited them into a convenient volumes.  Editions of public-domain material can receive a whole-work copyright on the edition, even if everything that contributed to the edition was originally public domain.  Selecting what is or isn't in your edition is authorship as copyright defines it.

The counterargument is that all you have done is to make public-domain material more useful and appealing toward the purposes for which the original material would have been sought.  Commercial uptake of source material for commercially-exploitable purposes is one of the reasons we like having public-domain material be freely, non-exclusively usable.  We want creators to be able to say, "I don't have the talent or energy to produce new content entirely on my own, but I can do something creative and useful using this other thing as a jumping-off point."  And one of the chronic impediments to this is the difficulty in obtaining high-quality versions of public-domain material.  The exceptions to copyright such as Fair Use and public domain are meant to speak to the larger issue of protecting creativity in general.  That is, a court will balance allegations of infringement against the value of allowing the particular use case to the general climate of creativity.  It is conceivable that a court could rule that, despite the effort you put in, you've merely contributed to making public-domain material more suitable for the kind of reuse it was intended for.

My personal, non-lawyer opinion is that the pro-authorship argument is stronger.  The creative, editorial effort required to produce high-quality renditions of already-existing materials probably qualifies as a copyrightable transformation.  If you really need to know, you need an IP lawyer.  And sadly they're often quite expensive.  They require extra training because they need a degree not only in law but also in the field the intellectual property comes from -- here, image processing and artificial intelligence.
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Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2020, 03:54:26 PM »
Thank you jay for such a thorough reply.

I personally don't think my transformations are substantial and creative enough to merit me as a copyright owner. The process to make the interpolations didn't require much creative effort or exceptional skill.

However, the video as a whole does take some time to make. Especially the bigger and more complex ones, as audio, photos and video has to be synchronized and colour-corrected/exposure curves adjusted.

I want to clarify I don't intent to sell any of this, they will always be freely on YT. I only uploaded them under the usual copyright licence because I don't want some documentary or company to just download my vids and sell them on their own, leaving me in the dark about all of it.


I know many people have made mosaics of Apollo panorama's, stitching them together. Many of these can be found in books, as prints or in documentaries. Do these kind of transformations usually have enough merit for the creator to have copyright on them?

It depends, like anything I suppose. Mosaics can be easy, just stitching frames automatically together with photoshop. Or you can put more effort in  it, like adding/changing objects in the composite, cleaning/restoring individual photos.
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Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2020, 03:56:58 PM »
And skill is an other thing.

Back in the day, making even minor changes required great darkroom skill, secure timings, special and precise tooling.

It can be argued this has been made much easier in photoshop, with so many features like stitching together photos and adjusting for shadows/highlights now completely automated.

Editing video was even more difficult, requiring large devices and edit rooms for which the user needed special skills and years of experience to master. Even basic things like cutting, changing audio. Let alone complex effects.

Many of these things can now be done on a phone.

SO where does this leave the bar of skill and effort required for a work to be transformed enough?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 04:00:50 PM by apollo16uvc »
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2020, 04:30:36 PM »
Degree of skill doesn't really matter.  You can spend your life learning to paint and then paint a masterpiece.  And then some parent can have his toddler throw up on a canvas, and both works are equally deserving of copyright protection.  Level of effort sort of matters, but generally only as it employs originality or creativity.  The fact that image correction and video editing have been made so much easier by technology does not mean the products cannot be copyrighted.  If you make creative choices, you can protect them even if they would seem insignificant to others.

In a derived work, the degree to which the derivation departs from the original bears on whether it can be separately copyrighted.  Here there is no copyright on the original, but if your work is markedly different from what can be publicly obtained, it may be a candidate for copyright.  That's where your claim is the shakiest but it's still reasonably strong.  It wouldn't matter how easy or hard it was for you to do.  But it might matter how much your effort relied on creative choices that someone else could make differently.  Copyright is not an assessment of inherent or imbued worth, only of originality.

I think your use of copyright here is appropriate.  You are not doing anything to stifle general creativity or limit the further use of your work unreasonably.  You're correctly employing copyright to prevent others from asserting ownership -- perhaps commercial ownership -- over what is not their work, which aids in promoting creativity.  This is the copyright that Clavius.org operates under.  The original portions of it are copyrighted, but I've ever only had to make one copyright infringement claim in the entire 20-year history of the site.  Because the licensing terms are lenient -- simply give credit to the original source -- I've enjoyed a lot of cordiality.  There is a professor of astronautical engineering somewhere in Georgia who's using many of my illustrations in his classroom.  He asked permission, which I happily granted.  Third parties have translated large portions of the site into other languages.  Again, they asked permission.
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Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2020, 04:55:28 PM »
I have no problem with people using my work as long as permission is asked and I am credited appropriately.

And if the end product gets sold or broadcasted a reasonable fee.
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2020, 12:54:58 AM »
That seems like a reasonable policy.

Copyright law is, I'm told, the hardest for us laymen to grasp correctly.  It costs you nothing nor risks anything to claim copyright.  But acting on those claims really requires the assistance of a properly specialized lawyer.  I might be completely wrong about everything.
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Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2020, 11:17:11 AM »
DAIN-APP 0.39 released some days ago.

This adds several features, fixes and a better thought out interface.

Most importantly, it allows me to enter the compression rate for the final mp4 output.

It uses ffmpeg for this, and now has an option to change the CRF value, which was previously fixed to 15.

Setting it to 1 or even 0 greatly enhances output quality.

I wanted to wait for this feature before making more renders and re-doing some old ones I did as tests, such as the APollo 15 ascent.

Some off the tests I will now be rendering to completion, with just comms and the footage as a 4:3 video:










Does anybody knows which 16mm rover traverses were recorded at 6 or 12fps?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 11:22:20 AM by apollo16uvc »
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Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2020, 03:53:39 PM »
Apollo 15 Lunar Ascent:

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Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2020, 03:57:24 PM »
I'm going to call this a proof-of-concept/experiment  :D

Apollo 11 flag deployment interpolated from 1 to 8fps (8x interpolated) . This took like 2-3 days to complete.

Naturally there is a copyright claim on the audio that I have already filed a dispute for.


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Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: AI Interpolation of NASA footage (Smoothing/Increasing Fps)
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2020, 10:57:41 AM »
Apollo 15 Lunar Landing interpolated from 12fps to 60fps, taking 5 hours:

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