Author Topic: The Biden Presidency  (Read 3720 times)

Offline JayUtah

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Re: The Biden Presidency
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2021, 01:14:26 PM »
In case it wasn't clear, I wish the United States didn't have to deal with racial supremacists in any way.  Yes, if we have to endure their presence, then let them wear their politics on their sleeves and form their own political parties so that reasonable conservatives aren't tempted to vote for them.  I'd prefer instead they form their own country, because they have no desire to take part in America as it actually is.  For them, I fear making America "great" again literally means going back to whatever form of enslavement they can sneak under the radar.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline raven

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Re: The Biden Presidency
« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2021, 01:15:25 PM »
With all due respect, I do not see how they add to America's strength, trying to bully a wannabe despot into office against all facts and democratic process.
They are not America's strength. America's strength is its diversity, its multitude of people and ideas coming together. Not them. They are a rot on American democracy, a fascist, and I do not use the word mildly, infestation. They weaken America, for all their bravado and claims of wanting to 'make America great'.
I do believe Peter was referring to "Or a separate country" with his "I hope not".
I dearly hope so.

Offline Peter B

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Re: The Biden Presidency
« Reply #92 on: January 24, 2021, 09:46:09 PM »
With all due respect, I do not see how they add to America's strength, trying to bully a wannabe despot into office against all facts and democratic process.
They are not America's strength. America's strength is its diversity, its multitude of people and ideas coming together. Not them. They are a rot on American democracy, a fascist, and I do not use the word mildly, infestation. They weaken America, for all their bravado and claims of wanting to 'make America great'.
I do believe Peter was referring to "Or a separate country" with his "I hope not".
I dearly hope so.

Yes, I was.

I totally understand that having such people in your country is a liability for your country. It's the same here and in every other country which allows freedom of expression - depending on how laws work people can more or less openly hold repulsive views.

I just think the idea of slicing off a part of the USA to create a new country just for the white supremacists is a dangerous one: once they're their own country you lose control of who they make alliances with. Just imagine if they made an agreement with Russia or China to allow a military base there - it'd be like the Cuban Missile Crisis but just a bit closer to the USA...

Instead, I think people like this need to be de-radicalised, in much the same way that extremist Muslims have been de-radicalised - they feel alienated within the country they live in, and the idea of de-radicalisation is the process of dealing with that alienation. I suspect (but obviously don't know for sure) that only a small proportion of these people hold these views innately, while the majority have been radicalised due mostly to circumstances in their lives; change the circumstances, and the views change with them.

About the only alternative (which I realise is spectacularly impractical) is to encourage them to migrate to a country where their views might be more acceptable, such as Russia.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 09:47:52 PM by Peter B »

Offline gillianren

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Re: The Biden Presidency
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2021, 10:44:19 AM »
I worry that, for some of these people, the reason they feel alienated is that other people have the same rights they do, and the only thing that will make them happy is to take those people's rights away.
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: The Biden Presidency
« Reply #94 on: January 25, 2021, 02:04:16 PM »
I just think the idea of slicing off a part of the USA to create a new country just for the white supremacists is a dangerous one: once they're their own country you lose control of who they make alliances with. Just imagine if they made an agreement with Russia or China to allow a military base there - it'd be like the Cuban Missile Crisis but just a bit closer to the USA...

That's a decisive point.  I don't disagree with attempts to deradicalize racial supremacists.  But the aftermath of the Civil War indicates just how problematic that is.  100 years later, we had a new civil rights movement facing almost exactly the same challenges.  There is a component of the American experience that seems intransigent in its belief in racial inequality.  It's been ingrained for generations.  Right -- sending them packing to their own country is inadvisable for all the reasons you mention and probably more.  But integration is so very elusive.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams