Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 162574 times)

Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1935 on: January 12, 2021, 02:17:05 PM »
I have zero patience for racist right-wing Trump sympathizers right now, apollo16uvc, so maybe you should just keep your thoughts on this topic to yourself.
Does attaching so many terms to a large group of people you politically disagree with make it easier for you?

Maybe I'm not even right, but try to see faults in both sides. As a typical American your post shows no nuance or gray areas. You are either with us or against us.
Perhaps that is why you suggest doing away with the republics, so you don't have to deal with any politicians that make you think about your values, policies and principles.


Some people SUFFERED during Obama's terms. These people saw trump as an outcome. To finally be left alone by these people. It is a pity trump is so unstable and can't deal with his defeat.


Lets not forget people also wanted a vote recount when Hillary lost. A pity so many people only seem to have a 3-4 year memory when it comes to politics.

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Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1936 on: January 12, 2021, 03:06:15 PM »
I have zero patience for racist right-wing Trump sympathizers right now, apollo16uvc, so maybe you should just keep your thoughts on this topic to yourself.
Does attaching so many terms to a large group of people you politically disagree with make it easier for you?

I don't care if people have political beliefs that I disagree with. If someone thinks the minimum wage shouldn't be increased to $15/hour I will disagree with them. That's a political belief.

If someone thinks it is wrong for black people to be depicted equally to white people in the media, or that Obama made racial divisions worse simply by being elected to the Presidency, I will call them racist. Those aren't political disagreements, they are moral ones.

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Maybe I'm not even right, but try to see faults in both sides.

So do I. I just happen to believe the "both sides are equally bad" argument is completely lame at this point. One side wants to give people affordable education & healthcare, and the other side just attempted a coup.

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As a typical American your post shows no nuance or gray areas. You are either with us or against us.

I'm not American, I'm Canadian. I am 100% against the racism and fascism that the Republican Party has apparently adopted as core values, and I see no need to compromise with them on those matters.

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Perhaps that is why you suggest doing away with the republics, so you don't have to deal with any politicians that make you think about your values, policies and principles.

Saying the Republican Party should be wiped out does not mean I'm against a second party that has traditional conservative values. I know that there are two sides to every coin, so a 2nd party that is in opposition to the Democratic Party is understandable. But the Republican Party has moved so far to the right that it has become dangerous. It is corrupt to it's core. It is a cancer that needs to be removed if the United States is going to survive.

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Some people SUFFERED during Obama's terms.

But they wrongly attribute their suffering to Obama. The economic collapse started during Bush's administration. Obama turned it around and had it in good shape by the time he left. He also attempted to improve people's access to affordable healthcare, whereas the Republicans have done everything that can to try to take it away from them.

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These people saw trump as an outcome.

Which is idiotic. You can't expect someone as blatantly corrupt as Donald Trump to "drain the swamp".

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Lets not forget people also wanted a vote recount when Hillary lost.

I don't have a problem with recounts. I have a problem with saying the election was stolen even after MULTIPLE recounts showed that it wasn't. I have a problem with the losers trying to rewrite the rules in their favour. I have a problem with the President of the United States trying to pressure other government officials into "finding" votes for his opponent to toss. I have a problem with the people whose names are on the ballot trying to choose the winner. And most of all, I have a problem with people who try to stage a coup.
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Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1937 on: January 12, 2021, 04:19:29 PM »
Lets not forget people also wanted a vote recount when Hillary lost. A pity so many people only seem to have a 3-4 year memory when it comes to politics.

None of the people who wanted a recount were Hillary Clinton though. And Trump dismissed those recounts as a waste of time since he won. The people had spoken, apparently. Oh, apart from New Hampshire, where he did want an investigation into supposed voter fraud (which turned out to be residents who were bussed to a polling station on a bus from an out of state company, so he assumed they all came from out of state, because if you're going to illegally bus a load of voters into a state to affect the election you would naturally do it on a bus clearly labelled as such...). Even after he won he still insisted the election was rigged because he didn't win enough.

Trump has demanded recounts in 2020, then demanded more recounts after the first recounts didn't come out the way he wanted. He has done everything he can to undermine the result before, during and after the election. The accusations of voting irregularity have also really obviously only been aimed at those states he lost, even when the exact same 'irregularities' exist in states he won. His supporters who were elected on the same ticket are challenging in some cases the validity of the presidential vote in states they happily accepted their own election to the house or senate in even though these occurred on the same ticket.

And no-one in 2016 used a social media platform to encourage people to march on the Capitol and stage a coup to overturn the result of an election. So you know what, bollocks to whatever the democrats and Obama did before, THIS is exceptional and unacceptable, and should be considered so regardless of political affiliation.
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Offline VQ

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1938 on: January 12, 2021, 04:42:21 PM »
...

Soooo much inaccuracy in one post, but for highlights:

The President does not determine military spending, congress does. And the US military spending level didn't drop significantly in 2008-16. Still more than the next 7 countries combined.

There is plenty to criticize about Obama's foreign policy. But he was bookended by administrations with much more to criticize IMHO. In short, the US hasn't had a cogent foreign policy since at least the end of the Cold War (I would argue further back, to more like the Marshall Plan). But no one has a good solution to clean up the messes left by Bush in Iraq and Afghanistan. Leaving weak leadership vulnerable to civil war (Iraq) or an apparently permanent low-key presence (Afghanistan) both seem to be doing poorly.

The Far Right will only be satisfied if they have sole rule. There is no "listening" to them or satiating them. They had both houses and presidency for two years and the senate for way too long, but they are still somehow the victims!? They feel marginalized because they are a minority that never learned how to compromise. That doesn't give them the right to an autocracy or minority rule.

No one has developed a megaton-class warhead in like 60 years. They are obsolete. Let alone 100 mt. And putting that on a torpedo would be completely pointless; very large warheads are (horribly) lethal at long range due to infrared radiation from the aerial fireball. Nuclear-capable torpedoes are not new or a result of Obama's foreign policy; Shkval was developed in the 1960's and the US Mk45 was in service by then as well.

...

Lets not forget people also wanted a vote recount when Hillary lost. A pity so many people only seem to have a 3-4 year memory when it comes to politics.

Might want to refresh your own memory. Hillary conceded the morning after election day, in an election far closer than 2020. She left the spotlight and Obama urged unity. There is simply no equivalency to be had between the 2017 and 2021 transitions.

Online smartcooky

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1939 on: January 12, 2021, 09:41:59 PM »
...
No one has developed a megaton-class warhead in like 60 years. They are obsolete. Let alone 100 mt. And putting that on a torpedo would be completely pointless; very large warheads are (horribly) lethal at long range due to infrared radiation from the aerial fireball. Nuclear-capable torpedoes are not new or a result of Obama's foreign policy; Shkval was developed in the 1960's and the US Mk45 was in service by then as well.

Yup. The US even had a short range nuke launched from a spigot gun... the "Davy Crockett"...... in 1961!!



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Offline Glom

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1940 on: January 13, 2021, 03:25:50 AM »
In our system of Government (which is not perfect by any means) the leader of the governing party is also the leader of the house and the country. It sounds like a powerful position, but in terms of government, it is actually far less powerful that your president. The Prime Minister is an active member of the Parliament, and is just one of the ~120 votes - there is no one person who can hold up legislation from being voted on, and there is no power of veto if the PM doesn't like what has been passed by the legislature. The Prime Minister is directly answerable to Parliament for his/her behaviour.

Of course, the most important feature of the Westminster style election is the beauty pageant declaration. The site of the Prime Minister standing on a temporary stage in the local sports hall next to a dozen other fellow candidates including some dressed as clowns while the returning officer reads the results just like happens for every other no-name MP; it sends a message that the PM is just another commoner. You're not above anyone.

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1941 on: January 13, 2021, 08:20:27 AM »
Of course, the most important feature of the Westminster style election is the beauty pageant declaration. The site of the Prime Minister standing on a temporary stage in the local sports hall next to a dozen other fellow candidates including some dressed as clowns while the returning officer reads the results just like happens for every other no-name MP; it sends a message that the PM is just another commoner. You're not above anyone.

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« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 08:22:05 AM by Jason Thompson »
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Offline Zakalwe

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1942 on: January 13, 2021, 08:42:41 AM »
In our system of Government (which is not perfect by any means) the leader of the governing party is also the leader of the house and the country. It sounds like a powerful position, but in terms of government, it is actually far less powerful that your president. The Prime Minister is an active member of the Parliament, and is just one of the ~120 votes - there is no one person who can hold up legislation from being voted on, and there is no power of veto if the PM doesn't like what has been passed by the legislature. The Prime Minister is directly answerable to Parliament for his/her behaviour.

Of course, the most important feature of the Westminster style election is the beauty pageant declaration. The site of the Prime Minister standing on a temporary stage in the local sports hall next to a dozen other fellow candidates including some dressed as clowns while the returning officer reads the results just like happens for every other no-name MP; it sends a message that the PM is just another commoner. You're not above anyone.

At least some of the candidates in the PM's area had the decency to dress like clowns unlike the tousled-haired buffoon....
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Offline ineluki

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1943 on: January 13, 2021, 08:55:01 AM »
Might want to refresh your own memory. Hillary conceded the morning after election day, in an election far closer than 2020.

An election she would have clearly won (getting 3 Million more votes than Trump)  in most other countries.

Offline jfb

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1944 on: January 13, 2021, 01:27:06 PM »
Might want to refresh your own memory. Hillary conceded the morning after election day, in an election far closer than 2020. She left the spotlight and Obama urged unity. There is simply no equivalency to be had between the 2017 and 2021 transitions.

None at all.

Hillary didn't spend months leading up to the election claiming the Republicans would steal it through massive fraud.  She didn't get on the phone with state officials telling them to "find her more votes".  She didn't demand her USAs in various districts fabricate claims of fraud against individual voters.  She didn't have a team file 60+ frivolous lawsuits in an attempt to disenfranchise millions of voters.  She didn't demand Joe Biden reject the electoral votes. 

Plenty of Democrats (myself included) suspected shenanigans in 2016, partly because Trump lost the popular vote, partly of real crimes committed by and around his campaign (using campaign funds to pay hush money to porn stars among other things), and because of awareness of disinformation being sown on FB and Twitter.  Plenty of Democrats (myself not included) adopted the #resist hashtag, screamed "not my President!" and generally behaved badly.

What Democrats did not do was lead an armed assault against Congress specifically to interrupt a peaceful transfer of power (beating a police officer to death in the process - so much for "back the blue"), especially not at the behest of the losing candidate. 

There is zero equivalence here to the behavior of Clinton and Democrats in 2016 to the behavior of Trump and Republicans in 2020.  Zippo.  Bupkis.  There is no good faith "both sides" argument to be made here.  There is no excuse for what meets the legal definition of sedition.

And we know this wasn't a false-flag Antifa operation because these geniuses live-streamed themselves attacking the Capitol.  They recorded themselves planning and coordinating the assault.  They took pictures of themselves smiling as they occupied offices, stole correspondence and equipment, and trashed the place.  They have spent the last several months on Parler coordinating and planning out in the open.  The FBI has all the evidence it could ever need and more to arrest these idiots, and every USA bringing this case before a jury doesn't have to do much except say "let's go to the video". 

Offline Obviousman

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1945 on: January 13, 2021, 03:25:06 PM »
Well said.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1946 on: January 13, 2021, 04:01:07 PM »
Voting now. Going to be tight.

If they dont impeach then it shows that the Reps have no bottom to the barrel.
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1947 on: January 13, 2021, 05:34:11 PM »
President Donald J. Trump has now been awarded half of all Presidential impeachments in the history of the United States.  The opposition to impeachment seems more tepid this time around.  Maybe some are seeing this as a possible excuse to expel Trump from the Republican Party.

Indeed the election-results bits of Monty Python are some of my favorites.

Stepping back to look at some of the deeply-felt opinions expressed here, I really think there is just a crisis of leadership everywhere in the United States now.  We seem to have so few people of outstanding character, and so few of them willing to step up and do what's right regardless of personal interests.  As I've said, politics is now just a game unto itself, serving only itself, and without much regard to governance and integrity.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline peter eldergill

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1948 on: January 13, 2021, 05:49:09 PM »
I have been reading here for years but haven't posted in many years.

Jay, could you walk is through what is likely to happen (and not happen) now?

Cheers from up north

peter

Offline JayUtah

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1949 on: January 13, 2021, 06:01:15 PM »
*shrugs*
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams