Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 121798 times)

Offline JayUtah

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3644
    • Clavius
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1920 on: January 11, 2021, 01:14:28 AM »
They thought they would be celebrated as heroes and patriots, that there would be parades, and statues would be erected in their honor.

And I'm sure a lot of that belief was reinforced by the President of the United States commending their dedication to his personal aggrandizement.

Quote
They never once thought that they would be arrested, or added to the no-fly list.

These people are not going to fare well in the corrections system.

On a happier note, let's recognize the Capitol Police officer who lured the mob away from the Senate chamber.  I guess we know his name, but we're not repeating it too often to keep him safe.  You know the Gru image meme?  "He singlehandedly protected the Senate chamber."  "He singlehandedly protected the Senate chamber."  We really need to find out why the Capitol security force was so understaffed.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Peter B

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1061
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1921 on: January 11, 2021, 03:45:53 AM »
On a happier note, let's recognize the Capitol Police officer who lured the mob away from the Senate chamber.  I guess we know his name, but we're not repeating it too often to keep him safe.  You know the Gru image meme?  "He singlehandedly protected the Senate chamber."  "He singlehandedly protected the Senate chamber."  We really need to find out why the Capitol security force was so understaffed.

Just worked it out.

I'd seen the video a couple of days ago, but obviously with no knowledge of the Capitol's layout I had no idea of the significance of his action.

Wow.

Offline apollo16uvc

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 354
  • Where no telescope has gone before.
    • Patreon
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1922 on: January 11, 2021, 06:33:42 AM »
The two-party system is failing. People are killing each other over which old guy rules over them for the next 4 years. And sadly it is going to get much worse.

Bush started the divide, obama made it worse and Trump made it reach criticality.

The media is also to blame.

Sides are maximum opposing instead of balancing each other out and offering two different views.


I see no way out without violence.


A parlimantary system where the fate of an entire nation doesn't rest on the whims of a single person. Multiple parties that need to form a coalition and work together instead of against each other.

Smaller federal gov only for critical infrastructure, millitary and police. Each state also gets a representative.

If the coalition can't figure something out, let the people vote.


That or....

The USA splits up into 2, maybe 3 nations. Each having one side of the extreme.
Maybe also several completely independent states.

Borders may very well change


In the case of complete anarchy...
enjoy the already failing infrastructure getting much, much worse.
Remember the hoover dam? Only holds back the biggest lake in the USA... if that were to fail...

Federal government may be terribly slow and expensive but it doesn't **** around with infrastructure critical to tens of millions of people..

(Most of the time)

« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 06:36:47 AM by apollo16uvc »
Watch me at: YouTube
Experience the past: Flickr
Support me on Patreon

Offline gillianren

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 2097
    • My Letterboxd journal
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1923 on: January 11, 2021, 10:48:35 AM »
Anyone pulling "both sides" in this issue is an idiot who doesn't want to see reality.

I would say, though, that I firmly believe that Trump's motives are purely petty and selfish.  He's a small man who is only interested in making himself look big.  He has allied with truly evil people, but it's not as though I think he really cares about immigrants or Muslims or especially abortion.  He cares about himself and maybe Ivanka, and if dumping her would save him, we'd see in a hurry how much he cares about her.

Also, I don't think he's a woke person's idea of a racist; he's just a racist.  There are many different ways racists can look, and denying housing to black people is definitely one of the ways.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline LunarOrbit

  • Administrator
  • Saturn
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
    • ApolloHoax.net
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1924 on: January 11, 2021, 11:59:29 AM »
Bush started the divide, obama made it worse and Trump made it reach criticality.

I wouldn't say Obama made it worse. It was the inability of racists to accept a black President that made things worse.

Quote
The media is also to blame.

Fox News has been dumbing down their audience, making them more gullible, and feeding them conspiracy theories for almost 25 years. They spun bad news about Bush & Trump, or failed to cover those stories at all. They made mountains out of molehills when covering Obama, or invented controversies out of nothing ("OMG, Obama used a selfie stick!"). I'm still waiting for Obama to declare Shariah law and take your guns away.

Quote
Sides are maximum opposing instead of balancing each other out and offering two different views.

People who live outside of the United States understand that even the most left-leaning American politicians (ie. Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez) would be considered centrists in a lot of other countries. The only reason people fear them is because people on the right have been fearmongering. They aren't even remotely "radical".

Quote
I see no way out without violence.

Then your vision is impaired.

Quote
A parlimantary system where the fate of an entire nation doesn't rest on the whims of a single person. Multiple parties that need to form a coalition and work together instead of against each other.

Multiple parties aren't all they're cracked up to be. Sure, they give voters more choices, but they often lead to unpopular parties gaining power. It could lead to a fascist party gaining power just because the 3 safer parties on the left split the vote enough to not give any of them a majority.

The solution to America's problem is not to change it's entire form of government, or to split into 2-50 separate countries. The solution is for the Republican party to be utterly wiped out and made toxic, for the people responsible for the failed coup to be severely punished, for the "checks & balances" to be fortified (no, the President is not above the law), and for a new 2nd party to take it's place. If that new party follows the constitution and obeys the laws, they might someday gain enough clout to be more than just an opposition party. But for the foreseeable future I think the Democratic Party is your only chance for a stable government.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline JayUtah

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3644
    • Clavius
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1925 on: January 11, 2021, 12:42:48 PM »
I'd seen the video a couple of days ago, but obviously with no knowledge of the Capitol's layout I had no idea of the significance of his action.

Keep in mind that areas like the Rotunda and the sculpture gallery are public spaces.  There are restrictions on what activities can take place in there, especially protest activity.  But even when Congress is in session, the entire building is not off limits to the public.  Our state capitol rotunda, for example, can even be rented out for after-hours private events, and is open to the public for visits every day.  And the spectator galleries of the chambers are often open to the public, but you need a free ticket to be there, which IIRC can be obtained from one of your state's Congressional delegation.  Merely entering the Capitol is not something that's going to be immediately challenged, although here I would say that the Capitol Police should have reasonably construed the crowd as a protest even before it turned violent.

But when the crowd wants to continue on to private or secure areas, the situation becomes more tense.  Normally those critical points don't require a lot of guarding since the only people who aren't supposed to be there would be individuals who, say, wandered away from a tour or got lost.  You can have one guy at each end of the Member's Lobby under normal circumstances.  But again, there was every indication that Jan. 6 was not going to be a normal day at the Capitol.  We still need to find out why even normal precautions don't seem to have been taken.

Another factor to consider is that some in the Blue Lives Matter contingent evidently believed the Capitol Police would join them.  The police force's low-key approach in allowing access, in some cases, to parts of the Capitol may have reinforced that belief.  Then later when actual defense became necessary, there would be the element of sudden betrayal.  In some of the videos you can hear the insurgents calling out to the Capitol Police to remind them they they supported the police when the police were under criticism, and they expected the police to back them now.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3644
    • Clavius
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1926 on: January 11, 2021, 02:14:47 PM »
The two-party system is failing.

I don't see either major party has having a unified vision or constituency.  I think there are historical and, to a lesser extent, political reasons for that.  However, I don't have confidence that meaningful third parties will arise in a way that requires coalition-style politics.  The Republican Party should have split when the Tea Party arrived, but it didn't.  It may not split into Trumpists and Traditionalists as things progress.

However, a big part of what I see as the problem is the U.S. political system.  And it's not as if the ways to fix it aren't obvious:  term limits, campaign finance reform, ethics reform.  But none of that is going to take place within the current system.  It's not something that can be easily addressed from within, when the people who would have to address it are those who benefit from the status quo.

I think Gillianren accurately describes were Donald Trump fits into this.  Ultimately you don't get power without the vote, so getting people to vote for you and not for your opponent is the key.  Trump was someone the Republican Party acknowledged was getting the votes.  Donald Trump was the useful idiot.  And now some in the Republican Party seem to have at long last realized their miscalculation in failing to oppose him vigorously enough; Trump is now a dangerous idiot who might not only drag the party down with him, but has been dragging the party down at the polls consistently since 2016.

Quote
The media is also to blame.

I think it's a lot to blame.  Leave it to rampant capitalism to have truth-in-advertising laws but no truth-in-news laws.  It sets up a situation where people can say essentially whatever they want as "news," regardless of actual truth.  And anyone who believes it is on their own.  The First Amendment framework is meant to forbid censorship, of course.  But it's predicated on the ill-advised presumption that people will inform themselves soberly from all sides of an issue instead of latching onto "news" that reinforces (often with outright lies) what they've already determined to believe.

Quote
I see no way out without violence.

Historically speaking, the U.S. doesn't effect significant course changes without significant occurrences, many of which have been violent to some degree.  I don't think violence is a necessary source of suitable significance.  But see what's happening.  Now five deaths attributed to the actions of politicians, and finally we begin to see traction in the forces that actually matter:  far-right extremist voices being de-platformed by fretful media companies, and major corporations announcing withdrawal of financial support for candidates.  (Don't get me started on that one.)  If you want change to happen in America, make it a business decision.

But America is violent by nature.  I have to agree that we probably haven't seen the end of it, but I hope very much that cooler heads prevail quickly.

Quote
A parlimantary system where the fate of an entire nation doesn't rest on the whims of a single person. Multiple parties that need to form a coalition and work together instead of against each other.

Believe it or not, the Republicans and the Democrats used to be able to compromise and produce bipartisan efforts.  The Tea Party effectively ended that.  Its very existence was based on getting what they want, or no one gets anything.  As long as that attitude prevails in American politics, it will be harder to build coalitions that simply allowing the major parties to break up and reform into different or smaller parties.

Quote
The USA splits up into 2, maybe 3 nations. Each having one side of the extreme.
Maybe also several completely independent states.

We already tried breaking into two nations, and there's talk of doing it again.  But in practical terms, the Deep South and many other states that would form a socially conservative nation know they cannot survive without the tax base provided by the richer, more socially liberal states.  As much as middle America complains about the effete coastal liberals, it is financially dependent upon them.  All the South would have would be Texas.  And while the Texas economy could probably sustain Texas as an independent country, I doubt it would be able to carry its neighbors for very long.

Quote
Federal government may be terribly slow and expensive but it doesn't **** around with infrastructure critical to tens of millions of people..

(Most of the time)

Meh, the national power grid has been shaky for years.  And our highway infrastructure is literally crumbling.  Previously these were things that the two major parties could agree to fund.  Now it's all being held hostage for each party's new list of can't-do-withouts.

Fox News has been dumbing down their audience, making them more gullible, and feeding them conspiracy theories for almost 25 years.

All under the guise of legitimate news.  There's no law specifically against telling a lie.  You can't do it under oath, of course.  And you can't do it to defraud someone.  And you can't do it where certain specific reliances might arise.  But the kinds of lies Fox News, talk radio, and other far-right outlets spew don't incur any responsibility.  "Sources say a busload of Antifa thugs infiltrated the otherwise peaceful protesters."  You don't actually report that infiltration as a fact.  And your "source" might just be some random Tweet.  You have zero responsibility for what someone might do with that "information."

Then there's the legal notion that a reasonable person wouldn't actually believe any of it.  But if seventy-odd million people show that they do believe it, what use is the "reasonable person" standard in assigning responsibility?  If you aren't aware that millions of people have relied upon your lies -- and, in posturing yourself as a news outlet, you instead actually expect people to listen to you and react accordingly -- then how can we ever address the clearly undesirable results of a media-generated hysteria?

Quote
People who live outside of the United States understand that even the most left-leaning American politicians (ie. Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez) would be considered centrists in a lot of other countries. The only reason people fear them is because people on the right have been fearmongering. They aren't even remotely "radical".

Or even especially "socialist."  Yes, I've lived outside the U.S. and I agree with your assessment.  As we discussed months ago, Americans are still fed the notion that if they work hard in the traditional way, they can all be millionaires just like Elon Musk and Donald Trump.  Thus the best thing to do is uphold American-style capitalism, lest The Swamp hobble you in your efforts.  When the average Joe can't make millions, he looks to other reasons for his failure.  And the right is all too eager to hand him reasons why:  he's being taxed by the liberals, who give his money to lazy people with brown skin who probably came here illegally.  Or all those laws and regulations that make it harder for big business to trickle the wealth down to the little guy.

If you keep in mind that every American thinks he's a temporarily stunted millionaire, you understand why the Republicans have such a hold.

Quote
...for the people responsible for the failed coup to be severely punished

This has to happen.  These calls for "unity" are bare pleas not to be punished for heinous acts deliberately committed.  As I wrote some time before, the biggest problem in America is the preferential assignment of accountability according to privilege.  Examples of that privilege are sex, skin color, sexual preference, immigration status, accumulated wealth, political dynasticism.  I'm sure you all would be able to suggest additions to the list.  There is little remaining functional equality among all people who are living in America, and this has pervaded every aspect of our society and government.  Trump is a plain old racist, but in another way he's just an example of the institutional racism that many of us are still struggling to recognize and eradicate.

But back to privilege.  As I said, I've observed many protests, demonstrations, and so forth in my city.  The organizers accept the very real possibility, if not outright likelihood, that they will be arrested and charged with some crime incident to their protest.  They prepare for it (i.e., they've made arrangements for bail and lawyers).  They don't want it, but they accept the risk of arrest and prosecution as a likely consequence of their intended behavior.  As some of the viral videos have made evident, the participants in Wednesday's attempted coup apparently believed they were just going to be allowed to walk away from it with no consequences.  This cannot be allowed to happen.

Now among the insurgents were obviously some truly horrible and disturbed people.  But others were simply beguiled, well-intentioned people who are being used as pawns by the rich and powerful.  They may not have understood what was likely to happen, and therefore not expecting it or prepared for it.  But that can't be said for the Ted Cruzes and Donald Trumps and the Lauren Boeberts, who callously put ordinary people in real danger by stirring them up to action and having no intention of sharing responsibility for the results.  They knew what they were doing, and are now trying to weasel out of responsibility for their miscalculation.  That cannot be allowed to happen either.

Quote
...for the "checks & balances" to be fortified (no, the President is not above the law)...

That would be nice.  The checks and balances are still there, but they've been completely overshadowed by partisan actions to an extent I think the Framers didn't consider possible or credible.  And I agree that as soon as you allow a President to pardon himself, you no longer have a nation of laws instead of men.

I'm quite sure the President is preparing a list of new pardons, those "patriots" who bludgeoned a policeman to death, attempted to kill the Vice President and the Speaker of the House, and who paraded symbols of hate and racism through our most hallowed halls.  And I'm sure he's doing it just to show he's still the Guy In Charge, with no more noble intent than to rile up his enemies.  We need some additional checks on the pardon power.

Quote
But for the foreseeable future I think the Democratic Party is your only chance for a stable government.

I wish I could agree, but I don't see the Democratic Party as anything better than the lesser of two evils.  Well, not as overtly evil as the Republicans.  But I see them as trying to be everything to everyone and winding up being nothing to anybody.  There are deep devisions among Democrats too, which defocuses their efforts.  I see a Biden Presidency as having little else to do besides repairing the feces-smeared legacy of Donald J. Trump.  I doubt they'll have time or political capital to do much that's affirmatively good.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline AtomicDog

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 371
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1927 on: January 11, 2021, 05:44:10 PM »
What did they think would happen?

They thought they would be celebrated as heroes and patriots, that there would be parades, and statues would be erected in their honor.

They never once thought that they would be arrested, or added to the no-fly list.

They thought that their actions would magically keep Trump as president, even after January 20, and that he would pardon them all.
"There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death." - Isaac Asimov

Offline raven

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1584
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1928 on: January 12, 2021, 02:01:13 AM »
What did they think would happen?

They thought they would be celebrated as heroes and patriots, that there would be parades, and statues would be erected in their honor.

They never once thought that they would be arrested, or added to the no-fly list.

They thought that their actions would magically keep Trump as president, even after January 20, and that he would pardon them all.
I bet they didn't expect to be charged at all but recognized as heroes.

Offline smartcooky

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1846
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1929 on: January 12, 2021, 02:14:27 AM »
A parlimantary system where the fate of an entire nation doesn't rest on the whims of a single person. Multiple parties that need to form a coalition and work together instead of against each other.

This is always going to be a problem with what you have in your country... someone who is effectively an Elected King, and with having an enforcer who can highhandedly block anything from being voted on that doesn't suit him or his Elected King.

Moscow Mitch has far too much power for one man to hold... in many ways, he is even more powerful than POTUS himself.

In our system of Government (which is not perfect by any means) the leader of the governing party is also the leader of the house and the country. It sounds like a powerful position, but in terms of government, it is actually far less powerful that your president. The Prime Minister is an active member of the Parliament, and is just one of the ~120 votes - there is no one person who can hold up legislation from being voted on, and there is no power of veto if the PM doesn't like what has been passed by the legislature. The Prime Minister is directly answerable to Parliament for his/her behaviour.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 02:16:12 AM by smartcooky »
► What you can assert without evidence, I can dismiss without evidence
► When you argue with idiots you risk being dragged down to their level and beaten with experience.
► Conspiracism is a shortcut to the illusion of erudition

Offline smartcooky

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1846
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1930 on: January 12, 2021, 06:37:35 AM »
ETA - Error correction for reply #1930

By "in your country" I meant the USA.
I didn't realise until after the edit time had expired that I was replying to apollo16uvc who is not American.
► What you can assert without evidence, I can dismiss without evidence
► When you argue with idiots you risk being dragged down to their level and beaten with experience.
► Conspiracism is a shortcut to the illusion of erudition

Offline gillianren

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 2097
    • My Letterboxd journal
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1931 on: January 12, 2021, 10:38:59 AM »
Moscow Mitch has far too much power for one man to hold... in many ways, he is even more powerful than POTUS himself.

Nowhere in law should he have had the level of power he took.  However, who was going to stop him?
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline JayUtah

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3644
    • Clavius
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1932 on: January 12, 2021, 11:23:13 AM »
Well, the Senate should have stopped him.  Majority leader is nowhere in the Constitution, and it galls me even more to hear it used as a title -- Leader McConnell.  I thoroughly agree that no one person should have that much power in government, and I agree even more that Mitch McConnell shouldn't have any power in government.  The man cares only about partisan power.

Like most legislative bodies, the Senate makes its own rules.  They're kept and interpreted by the Senate Parliamentarian.  However, the Senate can change its rules at any time, even smack in the middle of a debate.  It used to be that many important operations of the Senate required a supermajority -- 60 percent of those present.  Unless a party held that supermajority of seats, you needed at least some concession from the minority party.  Both Democrats and Republicans have manipulated the rules of the Senate in recent times to require only a simple majority to do most things, including set the Senate's agenda.  This gives the majority leader, that one single human being, broad power to decide what the Senate will do.  It's not an uncommon observation that this now makes him the most powerful man in the United States.

Sad thing is that he has only as much power as the Senators of his party give him.  Since there is no Constitutional authority to the office, all the power is simply partisan loyalty.  If Senators were to think for themselves, as the Constitution intended, then all that power would simply go away.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline apollo16uvc

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 354
  • Where no telescope has gone before.
    • Patreon
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1933 on: January 12, 2021, 01:21:57 PM »
Bush started the divide, obama made it worse and Trump made it reach criticality.

I wouldn't say Obama made it worse. It was the inability of racists to accept a black President that made things worse.

Quote
The media is also to blame.

Fox News has been dumbing down their audience, making them more gullible, and feeding them conspiracy theories for almost 25 years. They spun bad news about Bush & Trump, or failed to cover those stories at all. They made mountains out of molehills when covering Obama, or invented controversies out of nothing ("OMG, Obama used a selfie stick!"). I'm still waiting for Obama to declare Shariah law and take your guns away.

Quote
Sides are maximum opposing instead of balancing each other out and offering two different views.

People who live outside of the United States understand that even the most left-leaning American politicians (ie. Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez) would be considered centrists in a lot of other countries. The only reason people fear them is because people on the right have been fearmongering. They aren't even remotely "radical".

Quote
I see no way out without violence.

Then your vision is impaired.

Quote
A parlimantary system where the fate of an entire nation doesn't rest on the whims of a single person. Multiple parties that need to form a coalition and work together instead of against each other.

Multiple parties aren't all they're cracked up to be. Sure, they give voters more choices, but they often lead to unpopular parties gaining power. It could lead to a fascist party gaining power just because the 3 safer parties on the left split the vote enough to not give any of them a majority.

The solution to America's problem is not to change it's entire form of government, or to split into 2-50 separate countries. The solution is for the Republican party to be utterly wiped out and made toxic, for the people responsible for the failed coup to be severely punished, for the "checks & balances" to be fortified (no, the President is not above the law), and for a new 2nd party to take it's place. If that new party follows the constitution and obeys the laws, they might someday gain enough clout to be more than just an opposition party. But for the foreseeable future I think the Democratic Party is your only chance for a stable government.

Removing the current right-wing party is no way to go about stabilizing a country.

Not listening to each others differences and stepping on people because you disagree is THE reason to get people to hate you.

Ignoring a large part of the population because of a few extremists is only avoiding the problem. It will also give the left total and omnipresent supermajority.


Not good. The left can go crazy with enough power and time too.  Need we forget how Obama did? He only worsened racial divides an tribalism.

After that all the media and commercials started with the angle that we are the cause of all the worlds fucking problems, and we should pay reparations for shit virtually nobody alive has seen and arguably 95% of the white population today likely wasn’t even in the USA to remotely take part in.

Obama’s foreign policy was reckless and borderline suicidal. While he sequestered military funding to a fraction of what it was, allowing russia and China to expand influence. So China started Island building as he defunded your military but especially you navy, and Russia started building new warheads and of course the 100mt device they put in a torpedo.

Meanwhile he invaded Libya because they wanted to sell you their oil transacting with a gold standard, resulting in a genocide committed by Arabs of the black Libyan population. And he left Iraq creating the power vacuum that created ISIS. Starting multiple other wars.

Endlessly bombing countries, cities, even towns with HUGE collateral damages, destroying populations and creating massive endless immigration waves.

CNN cut the feed of a Libyan man on the ground stating that NATO artillery was causing mass collateral casualties. The rows of executed black dead came a week after that.

The USA and by extension, the NATO almost had a nuclear war over invading Syria.


Making the USA's relationship with North Korea almost reach a criticality event.
I know people who feared every day of Obama's term that atomic bombs were going to fall.

Controversial policies... but i rather not go there.


I fully expect a war in the next 2-4/5 years. Everyone that this administration is hiring in their cabinet for foreign policy is a neocon that served under Obama and Bush in some capacity as well.


So in short both the Dems and Reps got crazies (Bush did a lot of crazy shit too, not least of which starting a war that hundreds of millions of people still feel every day...), removing one is merely avoiding the problem and ignoring half of the populace.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 01:26:25 PM by apollo16uvc »
Watch me at: YouTube
Experience the past: Flickr
Support me on Patreon

Offline LunarOrbit

  • Administrator
  • Saturn
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
    • ApolloHoax.net
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1934 on: January 12, 2021, 01:37:49 PM »
I have zero patience for racist right-wing Trump sympathizers right now, apollo16uvc, so maybe you should just keep your thoughts on this topic to yourself.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)