Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 108264 times)

Offline Luther

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1665 on: November 14, 2020, 12:11:38 AM »
I live less than 90km (55 miles) from the nearest US border crossing, so it annoys me whenever a Trump supporter says "You're Canadian, why do you care? Mind your own business!".

Indeed, it's not like the United States is constantly telling every country in the world what it ought to be doing, and sometimes forcing them to do it, is it?

But to me, the kicker is that the current and previous two administrations have had a common policy, which is that foreigners (unless they have been lawfully admitted to the United States) have no rights, including the right to be alive.  A legal researcher for the Obama administration spelled its reasoning out pretty clearly.  The United States is at war with an unspecified enemy.  The entire world is a battlefield.  So if you are a non-American located on this battlefield, then you are a combatant.  And combatants may be killed.

Nice, eh?  I wonder how many minutes it would take for the US to invade any country that took that attitude towards Americans.

The FBI's own documents referred to Posada as a terrorist, and there he was, living in the US.  The Bush administration, which brought the world "enhanced interrogation", refused to extradite him to Venezuela, for fear he might face "enhanced interrogation" there - in other words, the US decided to harbour a terrorist, because they thought Venezuela might treat terrorists the same way the US did.  Do Venezuela and Cuba have the right to invade and occupy the US, killing a few million "combatants" (people located on the battlefield, which is the United States), because they are "fighting terrorism"?  Does Turkey have the right to launch drone strikes on the battlefield that is Pennsylvania, because Gülen is there?

So a country has, for three successive governments, claimed it has the right to kill any foreigner it likes, any time it feels like it, and has made good on that a few hundred thousand times.  And possibly more than a million, depending on whose counts you use.  Even US figures indicate that more than one hundred thousand "combatants" (as per the above, non-Americans who are located on the battlefield, which is planet earth) have been killed; nearly everyone else's figures are much higher.

So their government claims it has the right to kill you any time it likes, and you should mind your own business?

I don't know whether Biden will continue the "foreigners do not have the right to be alive" policy.  When he was vice-President, his boss definitely didn't think foreigners had the right to be alive.  And the person who ran against Trump in 2016 - well, there were few things that upset her more than the existence of a live foreigner.

Offline Halcyon Dayz, FCD

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1666 on: November 14, 2020, 05:23:45 AM »
Of course, if the states changed their voting systems to match Maine and Nebraska, then the parties would change the way they'd campaign, so I don't think we can draw too much from saying a past election result would have changed.
It would also change how people vote, and who votes.

There being little to no chance of your favourite winning any electors if you happen to live in a state that is strongly the other colour no doubt discourages many voters.
Splitting the electors also slightly reduces the spoiler effect, people would feel more confident voting 3rd party.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 05:29:18 AM by Halcyon Dayz, FCD »
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Offline gillianren

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1667 on: November 14, 2020, 11:30:51 AM »
I used to have a defense for the Electoral College, but the last twenty years have frustrated me so much that I don't even remember what it was anymore.
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Offline raven

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1668 on: November 14, 2020, 12:30:40 PM »
One of its apparently intended functions, Protection from Demagogues, isn't doing so hot.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1669 on: November 14, 2020, 04:27:57 PM »
One of its apparently intended functions, Protection from Demagogues, isn't doing so hot.

One person's demagogue is another person's savior.  I think I could come up with a reasoned argument for the Electoral College as it was first formulated.  But it's very hard to justify it in modern times under modern theories of democratic government and with modern partisan politics.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Obviousman

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1670 on: November 15, 2020, 12:15:07 AM »
And so it begins.

Quote
US election live: 'Very ugly scenes' as pro-Trump rally turns violent
Far right and left groups have clashed in Washington DC following a pro-Trump rally leaving at least one man critically injured following a stabbing.

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/us-election-2020-live-updates-china-congratulates-joe-biden-on-victory-over-donald-trump/live-coverage/6ff11b1a0af8efac0d5356f55ce85439

Offline Obviousman

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1671 on: November 15, 2020, 02:55:05 PM »
Just how tainted will the Trump administration be? Those who left early should be okay but the people who are still hanging on must be doing so because if they don't win then their political life is over? They know this is a 'do or die' situation?

Just how toxic will having been associated with the Trump administration (and just Trump) be?

Offline jfb

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1672 on: November 15, 2020, 05:55:58 PM »
Just how tainted will the Trump administration be? Those who left early should be okay but the people who are still hanging on must be doing so because if they don't win then their political life is over? They know this is a 'do or die' situation?

Just how toxic will having been associated with the Trump administration (and just Trump) be?

About as toxic as being part of the Nixon admin was.  A few years in the wilderness, but eventually all of them will be welcomed back into the fold. 

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1673 on: November 16, 2020, 01:11:11 AM »
But to me, the kicker is that the current and previous two administrations have had a common policy, which is that foreigners (unless they have been lawfully admitted to the United States) have no rights, including the right to be alive.  A legal researcher for the Obama administration spelled its reasoning out pretty clearly.  The United States is at war with an unspecified enemy.  The entire world is a battlefield.  So if you are a non-American located on this battlefield, then you are a combatant.  And combatants may be killed.

Do you have a source for this claim? 

Offline ineluki

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1674 on: November 16, 2020, 06:48:18 AM »

BTW, has anyone worked out what it would be if every state did what Maine and Nebraska do?

It's only for 2012 and 2016, but it's nice to play with those anyway.

https://www.270towin.com/alternative-electoral-college-allocation-methods/?year=2016

Offline Peter B

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1675 on: November 16, 2020, 11:03:27 PM »
The Australian ABC is running a daily blog of election news. A couple of days ago they had pictures from the Million MAGA Walk [sic], including one with a chap literally wearing a tin-foil hat...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-15/us-election-live-blog-donald-trump-supporters-protest/12884268, and scroll about halfway down.

(I'd post a clip but don't know how to)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 11:23:40 PM by Peter B »

Offline JayUtah

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1676 on: November 18, 2020, 01:13:24 PM »
I'm hoping that's all the post-election violence we see.  But I'm not very optimistic.  The right wing has been mobilized and emboldened by the Trump administration, and once it has tasted legitimacy it will be very hard for them to be dissuaded.  As near as I can tell, the march in Washington was practically destined to become violent, as both sides seem to have anticipated it and participated in the instigation and escalation.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1677 on: November 19, 2020, 04:23:01 AM »
In what twisted timeline are we in where 73 million people are OK with this nonsense?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/11/trump-rudy-giuliani-pennsylvania-lawsuits-not-coherent.html

Someone needs to take Giuliani to one side, make him a nice cup of tea and plonk him in the day-room where he can watch TV. Hopefully he will not bother the other residents too much.
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Offline molesworth

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1678 on: November 19, 2020, 06:12:53 AM »
Someone needs to take Giuliani to one side, make him a nice cup of tea and plonk him in the day-room where he can watch TV. Hopefully he will not bother the other residents too much.

I would guess that the only person who thinks Giuliani is even remotely competent is Trump himself.  He may have been a reasonably capable lawyer at one time, but the last few years (decades?) have been a catalogue of disasters.
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Offline ineluki

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #1679 on: November 19, 2020, 07:19:11 AM »
I would guess that the only person who thinks Giuliani is even remotely competent is Trump himself. 

I guess Rudi himself also hás some delusions of greatness.
But even Sean Hannity  hides behind  “I heard from more than a few people that he was absolutely brilliant in his arguments today,”