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Off Topic => General Discussion => Topic started by: LionKing on September 02, 2021, 05:24:33 AM
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I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.
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I have to disagree with you there. A lot of people PREFER to be in a normal workplace. The software developers I work with are a good indication: some of them hate working from home; they need the structure of the office and also prefer the environment. Others would like to WFH full time (as they are now). Some would like a balance of the two.
I can work remotely and have done so for some time.... but as soon as possible, I want back in the office. I need to interact / network with people, find out what is going on, etc (note I am a Defence contractor these days, so being in the office means being with my clients, not my co-workers). I'd like to mix and match it: a few days home, a few days work, etc.
I think that COVID-19 just accelerated something that was already in motion.... but I didn't consider going to my workplace as "slavery".
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I have to disagree with you there. A lot of people PREFER to be in a normal workplace. The software developers I work with are a good indication: some of them hate working from home; they need the structure of the office and also prefer the environment. Others would like to WFH full time (as they are now). Some would like a balance of the two.
I can work remotely and have done so for some time.... but as soon as possible, I want back in the office. I need to interact / network with people, find out what is going on, etc (note I am a Defence contractor these days, so being in the office means being with my clients, not my co-workers). I'd like to mix and match it: a few days home, a few days work, etc.
I think that COVID-19 just accelerated something that was already in motion.... but I didn't consider going to my workplace as "slavery".
Hi obviousman. I think people are different. My boss used to come all this period too to office because he can concentrate more it seems. Others would want to interact more with people. However, for people like me who enjoyed working from home and found more freedom in that, and if things work in a good way and they are productive and not affecting the results, I don't find a reason to bring them back. I think everyone should be able to choose what he or she prefers as long as work is done.
Works are different. Sometimes you go all day to work and there is no real work because the job was submitted and you are waiting for answer or other reasons. For people who like to sleep in the morning and have some rest, or stay with their young children, it would be a better choice to work from home.
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I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.
Melodramatic, much? You always have a choice in that you can choose to get a different job. I would suggest that if you have that choice then you are a long way away from anything resembling slavery.
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I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.
Melodramatic, much? You always have a choice in that you can choose to get a different job. I would suggest that if you have that choice then you are a long way away from anything resembling slavery.
Yes. That was very crass.
Even though I get along way better than most with solitude and have enjoyed my time at home, I think I would benefit from a more traditional work environment at this point. I gave problems maintaining focus and being away from personal distractions during work hours is helpful. Hence me posting here. I should try to get back to work.
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I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.
Melodramatic, much? You always have a choice in that you can choose to get a different job. I would suggest that if you have that choice then you are a long way away from anything resembling slavery.
Not really melodramatic. It is your life that is being taken from you, and life is very precious, so is your freedom. 8 hours sitting on a chair is slavery to me.
It is not easy where I live to find another job, and even if you, the rules are pretty much the same. Once the work is done, it doesn't harm the employer that the employee is at leasure . That wouldninclude that the person can choose to come to work if he or she likes. It just shouldn't be imposing on people a way of life. People reach usually from work very tired at evening that they can't do any activity and would need to sleep earlier and get up early like machines. At least this is how I view it. Instead, you have the option to stay at ease at home, and you are relaxed that you can even work at night and take breaks whenever you want. As ling as you are responsible and delivering good work on time, you should have that option to choose.
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I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.
Melodramatic, much? You always have a choice in that you can choose to get a different job. I would suggest that if you have that choice then you are a long way away from anything resembling slavery.
Yes. That was very crass.
Even though I get along way better than most with solitude and have enjoyed my time at home, I think I would benefit from a more traditional work environment at this point. I gave problems maintaining focus and being away from personal distractions during work hours is helpful. Hence me posting here. I should try to get back to work.
Maybe but one can stay in their own room and if someone opens the door to ask you a question it would be ok . You can tell those at home not to distract you unless there is something necessary.
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So you're having all your rights taken away by your job? You can have your children taken away from you? You can be taken away from your family? You're being beaten if your boss feels like beating you?
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So you're having all your rights taken away by your job? You can have your children taken away from you? You can be taken away from your family? You're being beaten if your boss feels like beating you?
Beaten? Are you serious?
Just the idea that one can work from home and stay around family instead of staying three quarters of your life away, not eating most of your time with them on the table and so on of the small things that yet make a difference, is I believe worth it to fight for. As long as the work is correcrly done, I repeat. People who can't achieve good work or concentrate for sure would need to work in the setting that makes thrm more productive. What is wrong with that?
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I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.
I think demonstrating the ability to work from home has been one of the big upsides of the pandemic. I get the impression a lot of bosses objected to people working from home because it was hard for them to see their staff working - that is, they were more concerned with seeing the process of work happening as opposed to worrying about the outcome. When lockdowns made WFH necessary (and micro-management much harder), it turned out that the work was still being done (and therefore micro-management largely unnecessary).
The other positive I think that has come from the pandemic is the demise of business travel. I get the impression that a lot of business travel wasn't really necessary, but was instead just a pleasant little (or not so little) executive perk. The need to conduct meetings by Zoom saved a lot of travel time and air fare/hotel expense for little loss in productivity when compared with face-to-face meetings.
Having said that, WFH isn't for everyone. I disliked it when we had our first lockdown in 2020, and I'm disliking it now as we go through our Delta lockdown. It's hard to focus, it's hard to do on-the-job training, and most homes aren't set up for work as efficiently as offices can be. And Zoom and Teams are no substitute when you want/need to interact with work colleagues.
WFH is also impossible in a number of situations - transport, security, hospitality and care are four sectors of work I can quickly think of in which WFH is fundamentally impossible.
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So you're having all your rights taken away by your job? You can have your children taken away from you? You can be taken away from your family? You're being beaten if your boss feels like beating you?
Beaten? Are you serious?
Just the idea that one can work from home and stay around family instead of staying three quarters of your life away, not eating most of your time with them on the table and so on of the small things that yet make a difference, is I believe worth it to fight for. As long as the work is correcrly done, I repeat. People who can't achieve good work or concentrate for sure would need to work in the setting that makes thrm more productive. What is wrong with that?
LionKing, you used the word "slavery" to describe your pre-COVID work situation.
To a lot of Americans (and frankly, to many people around the world) "slavery" means something far more terrible than what you mean. Think, specifically, of slavery in the USA up to 1865 - where slaves were people who had essentially no rights. They were treated as property rather than people, they were whipped, beaten, chained up, starved, raped, murdered, separated from family on the owner's whim, forbidden to learn to read and write, and probably a few other degrading humiliations I can't think of.
By comparison, you are either an employee or a contractor. You are paid for your work, you can resign and find another job or even start a business of your own, and you can travel. Thanks to the Internet you could even work for an employer in another country. As unpleasant as things are in your country, you have far more freedoms than any slave *.
* I have used similar arguments against people living in wealthy Western countries who claim they are slaves in some way. They have even less of an excuse than you.
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So you're having all your rights taken away by your job? You can have your children taken away from you? You can be taken away from your family? You're being beaten if your boss feels like beating you?
Beaten? Are you serious?
Just the idea that one can work from home and stay around family instead of staying three quarters of your life away, not eating most of your time with them on the table and so on of the small things that yet make a difference, is I believe worth it to fight for. As long as the work is correcrly done, I repeat. People who can't achieve good work or concentrate for sure would need to work in the setting that makes thrm more productive. What is wrong with that?
LionKing, you used the word "slavery" to describe your pre-COVID work situation.
To a lot of Americans (and frankly, to many people around the world) "slavery" means something far more terrible than what you mean. Think, specifically, of slavery in the USA up to 1865 - where slaves were people who had essentially no rights. They were treated as property rather than people, they were whipped, beaten, chained up, starved, raped, murdered, separated from family on the owner's whim, forbidden to learn to read and write, and probably a few other degrading humiliations I can't think of.
By comparison, you are either an employee or a contractor. You are paid for your work, you can resign and find another job or even start a business of your own, and you can travel. Thanks to the Internet you could even work for an employer in another country. As unpleasant as things are in your country, you have far more freedoms than any slave *.
* I have used similar arguments against people living in wealthy Western countries who claim they are slaves in some way. They have even less of an excuse than you.
I meant things metaphorically. Of course it is not that literal and that awful. Just the notion of lack of freedom and being under watching eyes. Mayne in your culture you use the word to mean something nore literal.
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So you're having all your rights taken away by your job? You can have your children taken away from you? You can be taken away from your family? You're being beaten if your boss feels like beating you?
Beaten? Are you serious?
Just the idea that one can work from home and stay around family instead of staying three quarters of your life away, not eating most of your time with them on the table and so on of the small things that yet make a difference, is I believe worth it to fight for. As long as the work is correcrly done, I repeat. People who can't achieve good work or concentrate for sure would need to work in the setting that makes thrm more productive. What is wrong with that?
LionKing, you used the word "slavery" to describe your pre-COVID work situation.
To a lot of Americans (and frankly, to many people around the world) "slavery" means something far more terrible than what you mean. Think, specifically, of slavery in the USA up to 1865 - where slaves were people who had essentially no rights. They were treated as property rather than people, they were whipped, beaten, chained up, starved, raped, murdered, separated from family on the owner's whim, forbidden to learn to read and write, and probably a few other degrading humiliations I can't think of.
By comparison, you are either an employee or a contractor. You are paid for your work, you can resign and find another job or even start a business of your own, and you can travel. Thanks to the Internet you could even work for an employer in another country. As unpleasant as things are in your country, you have far more freedoms than any slave *.
* I have used similar arguments against people living in wealthy Western countries who claim they are slaves in some way. They have even less of an excuse than you.
Even my work still had much much better conditions than others. Many people work Saturdays which I object to a lot. I worked with many people, and many allowed me to come at 9:30, others when I wanted (but i still came not to cause any problems in case bad people speak that I am not coming on time), others wouldn't allow buy exactly at 9 , other 8:30 ..
The issue is it is physically tiresome to stay all the day sitting and you come back home you just want to eat and sleep. If you can't concentrate, it is fine, come to work However, it should be your responsibility and your choice to work wherever you want. We are bot kids (not to use slaves) who should be watched always. Results oriented work will help many people, especially those with little kids. During covid, children also need online education and mothers should be by thier side or any of their parents. Different reasons.. still the core of what I am saying is that covid proved there is no binding reason for workers to attend. And those travel issues and unnecessary expenses are also included as you say. Yes many people like to have face-to-face interaction, but when you think of the expenses I think priority should be given to saving money.
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Working from home for over a year has not been good for me. I legitimately missed my daily commute, as that was kind of "me" time where I could yell at people, play my music very loudly, and basically just be silly without disturbing anyone. I am far more focused and productive in an office environment (for suitably loose values of "focused" and "productive"). I have a bigger rig in the office, I don’t have to pay for sodas, and Zoom is a poor substitute for sitting at someone’s desk to work out a problem.
I got vaccinated in late April and started going back to the office in June. And then Texas, being Texas, decided to ban enforcement of the most basic measures to limit the spread and Delta’s exploded and I’m working from home again and I hate it.
We had a fairly generous work from home policy before the plague hit, although it was expected you would be in the office most days. Now, it feels like the reverse is going to be true going forward - our lease on our current (very nice) space is up next August, and we’re on the hunt for a new, smaller, "hipper" space, which I interpret to mean that they intend for most people to work from home full-time. And for our business, it isn’t that big a deal. But there are jobs which do require you to be on site, and you have two choices in that matter - show up or find a new job.
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Working from home for over a year has not been good for me. I legitimately missed my daily commute, as that was kind of "me" time where I could yell at people, play my music very loudly, and basically just be silly without disturbing anyone. I am far more focused and productive in an office environment (for suitably loose values of "focused" and "productive"). I have a bigger rig in the office, I don’t have to pay for sodas, and Zoom is a poor substitute for sitting at someone’s desk to work out a problem.
I got vaccinated in late April and started going back to the office in June. And then Texas, being Texas, decided to ban enforcement of the most basic measures to limit the spread and Delta’s exploded and I’m working from home again and I hate it.
We had a fairly generous work from home policy before the plague hit, although it was expected you would be in the office most days. Now, it feels like the reverse is going to be true going forward - our lease on our current (very nice) space is up next August, and we’re on the hunt for a new, smaller, "hipper" space, which I interpret to mean that they intend for most people to work from home full-time. And for our business, it isn’t that big a deal. But there are jobs which do require you to be on site, and you have two choices in that matter - show up or find a new job.
How can you play music very loudly and shout on everyone without bothering anyone ? :)
Yes I agree there are jobs requiring staying on site. For example, the nurse and other health staff. To me, I am enjoying my stay at home with family. It is a golden opportunity because people don't stay around forever.
Another thing I am enjoying is that there are no big weddings and engagements. Sunday is the first engagement I will attend for only 40 people since the start of COVID. In our culture, it is a big fuss. You need to get clothes before time, take an appointment with the hairdresser because she will be very busy, go to the wedding at day when the groom comes to get the bride, go back and eat at home, and wait for the night to come to attend the night wedding that will stay for a late time. During the waiting time until night you remove the dress very carefully to dress your pajama and be very careful not to spoil your hair, until you dress it or dress another one even for the night wedding.. I know your sensitivity by now on the word slavery, so I will call it extremely controlling and confining of freedom. This is not to speak about the huge expenses that the groom has to pay for the wedding day, the dress of the bride, the food for the people, etc. I am glad that all this nonsense is gone.
I am also happy for the kids. I don't know what to call the education system that , like employees, gets children to sit all day on chairs. What to call a system that makes 4 years-old children get up in wintery days when it is still dark and take them from the warmth of their mothers and take them crying to the school. I understand however that there have been many challenges for this system of online and for the teachers, but everything has pros and cons.
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Just the idea that one can work from home and stay around family instead of staying three quarters of your life away, not eating most of your time with them on the table and so on of the small things that yet make a difference, is I believe worth it to fight for.
There are 168 hours in every week. Even if a person works 50 hours a week, and has a 1 hour commute each way, that's still only 60 total hours. (assuming a 5-day work week, which is the norm for most people) That's not even close to three quarters of one's life away. I know you were being dramatic with this, but the exaggeration is rather extreme.
There's nothing that says you have to sit in your chair for 8 hours straight every day. In fact, in most states breaks are required by law, and there's nothing stopping a person from getting up and stretching, typing while standing, etc. I have a coworker who has an app on his phone that reminds him to stand up on a regular basis.
I know you included a conditional "if people are able to do as good a job" as part of the rationale for working from home, but I would suggest that the percentage of people who are able to be just as efficient, and more importantly, being just as accessible to their fellow coworkers, bosses, etc., is lower than you may think. Offices have resources that can be difficult to replicate at home, and zoom or similar software is not a person substitute for being able to walk down the hall 50 feet to speak with someone. The number of distractions at home (family, snacks, 'toys') is hard to resist, and even well-mannered kids can easily interrupt a worker who is at home.
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I work in a shipyard and monitor work on nuclear propulsion plants. I could not do this work remotely even if they installed cameras everywhere. So other than wearing masks, trying to distance and being less busy, things have not changed much.
One nice thing is that middle management is still teleworking most of the week. This means I don't have to interact with them as much. I hope this never changes. :)
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I think demonstrating the ability to work from home has been one of the big upsides of the pandemic. I get the impression a lot of bosses objected to people working from home because it was hard for them to see their staff working - that is, they were more concerned with seeing the process of work happening as opposed to worrying about the outcome. When lockdowns made WFH necessary (and micro-management much harder), it turned out that the work was still being done (and therefore micro-management largely unnecessary).
The other positive I think that has come from the pandemic is the demise of business travel. I get the impression that a lot of business travel wasn't really necessary, but was instead just a pleasant little (or not so little) executive perk. The need to conduct meetings by Zoom saved a lot of travel time and air fare/hotel expense for little loss in productivity when compared with face-to-face meetings.
Having said that, WFH isn't for everyone. I disliked it when we had our first lockdown in 2020, and I'm disliking it now as we go through our Delta lockdown. It's hard to focus, it's hard to do on-the-job training, and most homes aren't set up for work as efficiently as offices can be. And Zoom and Teams are no substitute when you want/need to interact with work colleagues.
WFH is also impossible in a number of situations - transport, security, hospitality and care are four sectors of work I can quickly think of in which WFH is fundamentally impossible.
All good points. I think that some business travel is actually quite beneficial, as it's difficult to establish relationships online in the same way that one can in person. (the business dinner cannot be replicated, for example, nor can things like tours of facilities, at least not with any ease) But I do agree that some/much was not needed. I also agree that the lack of interaction with colleagues can be detrimental to some workers, although eliminating the casual conversations that often happen probably has increased productivity. And even after I went back to work, most of us kept our office doors closed, so we're not interacting at nearly the same level.
I also have to think that there are generational differences/effects that are influencing the ease, comfort, and efficiency of WFH. Just as younger people tend to prefer texting over speaking on the phone, I wonder if they prefer WFH for some of the same reasons - they actually like distance / don't like in-person interactions. Those of us who are older may see this distancing as abnormal and uncomfortable, while younger workers may see it as a natural extension of their preferred modes of communication.
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I am also happy for the kids. I don't know what to call the education system that , like employees, gets children to sit all day on chairs. What to call a system that makes 4 years-old children get up in wintery days when it is still dark and take them from the warmth of their mothers and take them crying to the school. I understand however that there have been many challenges for this system of online and for the teachers, but everything has pros and cons.
Perhaps it's different where you are, but there was never a single day of my educational career where I sat all day. In fact, especially in the early grades, you are frequently moving, doing activities, etc. There is also lunch and recess, gym, etc., where kids move around a lot. As you get older, you change classrooms between classes, and so are moving, even if not to the extent of a dedicated exercise session.
Do some kids cry initially when they go to school? Yes, but not all. Also, how are teachers possibly supposed to efficiently teach a class of kids if those kids are at home with their mothers? Talk about distractions. I teach at the university level and can tell you that my students weren't anywhere near as focused in the online classes as they are in person. And they are ostensibly adults. The kids are also missing a very important component of school - socialization. This is a HUGE part of child development, and they are not getting that to anywhere near the same extent while at home no matter what technology is being used. They also learn to interact with those both younger and older than they are, as well as with authority figures (e.g. teachers, administrators) and those with other jobs (e.g. janitors, "lunch ladies", guards), all of which teaches them valuable skills.
I agree that not having to pay for things like day care can help families a great deal, and that some people can be equally productive at home as in the office. For those that can I think it's a great option. But it's not clear that the pros outweigh the cons for the majority of workers. And if they do I don't think it's by as wide a margin as you may be imagining.
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Just the idea that one can work from home and stay around family instead of staying three quarters of your life away, not eating most of your time with them on the table and so on of the small things that yet make a difference, is I believe worth it to fight for.
There are 168 hours in every week. Even if a person works 50 hours a week, and has a 1 hour commute each way, that's still only 60 total hours. (assuming a 5-day work week, which is the norm for most people) That's not even close to three quarters of one's life away. I know you were being dramatic with this, but the exaggeration is rather extreme.
There's nothing that says you have to sit in your chair for 8 hours straight every day. In fact, in most states breaks are required by law, and there's nothing stopping a person from getting up and stretching, typing while standing, etc. I have a coworker who has an app on his phone that reminds him to stand up on a regular basis.
I know you included a conditional "if people are able to do as good a job" as part of the rationale for working from home, but I would suggest that the percentage of people who are able to be just as efficient, and more importantly, being just as accessible to their fellow coworkers, bosses, etc., is lower than you may think. Offices have resources that can be difficult to replicate at home, and zoom or similar software is not a person substitute for being able to walk down the hall 50 feet to speak with someone. The number of distractions at home (family, snacks, 'toys') is hard to resist, and even well-mannered kids can easily interrupt a worker who is at home.
About the hours, consider that you sleep normally few hours after you reach to wake up early in the morning, and that the time left after work of the day doesn't let you do anything (for most people) because you are tired. This is all time lost from your life because of work.
About stretching, yes you can get up and stretch, go fill a cup of water, etc. This is not the issue. Hoe much is the time in total you sit down behind a computer rather than sitting comfortably in your bed or comfortable seat at home? It is most of your time at work. Many people developed back aches and neck aches, sciatica as well, because of that type of work. This is why we started stretching.
There are distractions at home, but to me I set strict standards that no one should interrupt me. I am not married so no kids, others will be inderstandably more distracted, so each one should choose what is suitable. Ithink also the type of job in addition to the personality and personal preferances play a role in this. I don't mind zooming or talking on the phone if comapred to daily waking up early anf coming to work and all the tiresomeness that comes with it. I even work Saturdays and sometines Sundays because I feel comfortable and don't work as long hours as I did before.
For the rest of arguments, education is hard online, I know, but the education system is also unfair. Again, you msot of the time sit down. Yes you go toa recess and there are two hours a week for sports (thatI did not enjoy anyway), but still Iam talking most of the time. I wish it was doable whatPlato said that children should be taught in open air. That will make schools in Summer and Spring rather than waking up in cold Winters for the young. Iknow it might be hard to do, but when there is a will there is way.
I thonk the generational difference is valid. I don't like speaking but texting.
At any rates, I repeat that itshould be an option as long as qualitywork is delivered. If the management finds that the person is not delivering well, they should give the option of coming to work or leaving work all together.
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I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.
Melodramatic, much? You always have a choice in that you can choose to get a different job. I would suggest that if you have that choice then you are a long way away from anything resembling slavery.
Not really melodramatic. It is your life that is being taken from you, and life is very precious, so is your freedom. 8 hours sitting on a chair is slavery to me.
Oh FFS, cry me a river. What you are describing is luxurious to probably >80% of the world's population. If you can't differentiate between working 8 hours a day to earn a crust and actual slavery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery)then this conversation is over.
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My kids are miserable at home. Even though it's not safe, they are very much looking forward to starting in-person school, because their emotional development is shot.
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Working from home for over a year has not been good for me. I legitimately missed my daily commute, as that was kind of "me" time where I could yell at people, play my music very loudly, and basically just be silly without disturbing anyone. I am far more focused and productive in an office environment (for suitably loose values of "focused" and "productive"). I have a bigger rig in the office, I don’t have to pay for sodas, and Zoom is a poor substitute for sitting at someone’s desk to work out a problem.
I got vaccinated in late April and started going back to the office in June. And then Texas, being Texas, decided to ban enforcement of the most basic measures to limit the spread and Delta’s exploded and I’m working from home again and I hate it.
We had a fairly generous work from home policy before the plague hit, although it was expected you would be in the office most days. Now, it feels like the reverse is going to be true going forward - our lease on our current (very nice) space is up next August, and we’re on the hunt for a new, smaller, "hipper" space, which I interpret to mean that they intend for most people to work from home full-time. And for our business, it isn’t that big a deal. But there are jobs which do require you to be on site, and you have two choices in that matter - show up or find a new job.
How can you play music very loudly and shout on everyone without bothering anyone ? :)
I'm in my car on the highway.
Yes I agree there are jobs requiring staying on site. For example, the nurse and other health staff. To me, I am enjoying my stay at home with family. It is a golden opportunity because people don't stay around forever.
Another thing I am enjoying is that there are no big weddings and engagements. Sunday is the first engagement I will attend for only 40 people since the start of COVID. In our culture, it is a big fuss. You need to get clothes before time, take an appointment with the hairdresser because she will be very busy, go to the wedding at day when the groom comes to get the bride, go back and eat at home, and wait for the night to come to attend the night wedding that will stay for a late time. During the waiting time until night you remove the dress very carefully to dress your pajama and be very careful not to spoil your hair, until you dress it or dress another one even for the night wedding.. I know your sensitivity by now on the word slavery, so I will call it extremely controlling and confining of freedom. This is not to speak about the huge expenses that the groom has to pay for the wedding day, the dress of the bride, the food for the people, etc. I am glad that all this nonsense is gone.
I had to go to a funeral for a friend from high school last weekend. Thanks to a major traffic stoppage on the interstate I missed the actual service, but was able to get there just after they let out and was able to talk to people in front of the church. Everyone was vaccinated, everyone was masked, but we still kept our distance from each other, and in a situation like that you kinda need people to be close. It's just rough.
I am also happy for the kids. I don't know what to call the education system that , like employees, gets children to sit all day on chairs. What to call a system that makes 4 years-old children get up in wintery days when it is still dark and take them from the warmth of their mothers and take them crying to the school. I understand however that there have been many challenges for this system of online and for the teachers, but everything has pros and cons.
I don't have kids myself, but according to friends and family who do, most of their school-age kids are miserable staying home - they're missing out on time with friends and peers, which is vital during adolescence. One of the tricks to staying a happy family is that everyone is able to get away from each other from time to time. I love my wife, she loves me, but she'd rather I go into the office every day than stay home. She needs her alone time too.
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I also have to think that there are generational differences/effects that are influencing the ease, comfort, and efficiency of WFH. Just as younger people tend to prefer texting over speaking on the phone, I wonder if they prefer WFH for some of the same reasons - they actually like distance / don't like in-person interactions. Those of us who are older may see this distancing as abnormal and uncomfortable, while younger workers may see it as a natural extension of their preferred modes of communication.
I think that is something that I figure the majority of us don't really appreciate (making assumptions, here!). Younger people can work differently sometimes: perhaps not better, or worse, just differently.
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E-learning has been terrible for my daughter. One year ago I started studying electrical engineering. I love e-learning and I dream of time when I can work from home as an electrical designer.
I think WFH will be more common in the future if management learns to look at metrics instead of just looking at people working. It is much cheaper to have an office with meeting rooms and enough work stations for the people who are in the office for meetings than having enough office and parking spaces for all employees.
The future of virtual meetings is cloudier. Teams calls are a lot cheaper than flights and hotels but sales and support usually work better face to face.
Lurky
edit grammar
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I don't have kids myself, but according to friends and family who do, most of their school-age kids are miserable staying home - they're missing out on time with friends and peers, which is vital during adolescence. One of the tricks to staying a happy family is that everyone is able to get away from each other from time to time. I love my wife, she loves me, but she'd rather I go into the office every day than stay home. She needs her alone time too.
Exactly how I've been explaining it to people. Fortunately, we bought a house at the beginning of lockdown and are no longer in a two-bedroom apartment, but we've still pretty much all been on top of each other the whole time. Graham goes out to work every day, but the kids have basically had me and each other. And I haven't had time away from them, which is bad for my emotional health. Zane starts school for in-person learning on Friday and is looking forward to it. We're in a new district since we bought the house, and I told him last year he wasn't allowed to say he hated his new school yet. He was only allowed to say he hated distance learning. Which he did. I could go on for quite some time about the problems he was having with it.
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Oh, and as for "school should be outside," school outside in a lot of places in the summer is pretty miserable, too. Why would you want to be outside when it's ninety degrees out or hotter? No, it's a bad idea.
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Oh, and as for "school should be outside," school outside in a lot of places in the summer is pretty miserable, too. Why would you want to be outside when it's ninety degrees out or hotter? No, it's a bad idea.
Jeez, holding school outside in Central TX right now would constitute child abuse. Been over a hundred degrees the last few days.
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Many kids dislike education from home and I said it is not easy for teachers and for mothers, this is why I was saying about open air learning.
The verysmall kids, however, I am against them waking up in dim winter days and going to school. Let their schools , open air or closed, be in warm weather. Even for those a bit bigger, it is still cruel to go in cold weather and in the rainy season. The summer weather is very hot in some countries.fine. ACs should be available. We used to use the books to fan and tolerate the sun if we are placed near the window. It is not either a good choice, especially there were no electric fans. I think still summer and spring would be better for education if facilities are there for cooling. When it is dim and raining here I wake up in my warm bed and say: no way we were made to rise up in a day similar to this day.
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So how much education you get should depend on your climate. Check.
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So how much education you get should depend on your climate. Check.
;D I guess that doesn't bode well for us in damp, drizzly Scotland then...
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So how much education you get should depend on your climate. Check.
;D I guess that doesn't bode well for us in damp, drizzly Scotland then...
There aren't seasons better than others?
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So how much education you get should depend on your climate. Check.
;D I guess that doesn't bode well for us in damp, drizzly Scotland then...
There aren't seasons better than others?
Well, there's mist season, rain season, snow season and sleet season, but we do get at least three days of sunshine per year ;D
Seriously though, we do get reasonable Summers, and this year it's managed to get up to the high 20's, with long dry periods. We have a special word for Winter though - "dreich" (ch as in loch) - which captures the climate in a sound.
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So how much education you get should depend on your climate. Check.
;D I guess that doesn't bode well for us in damp, drizzly Scotland then...
We've apparently got roughly the same weather here in Western Washington. There are definitely a few months where school outside isn't a ludicrous concept, but not as many as there are in other places. It's as though buildings were invented for a reason.
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So how much education you get should depend on your climate. Check.
;D I guess that doesn't bode well for us in damp, drizzly Scotland then...
There aren't seasons better than others?
Well, there's mist season, rain season, snow season and sleet season, but we do get at least three days of sunshine per year ;D
Seriously though, we do get reasonable Summers, and this year it's managed to get up to the high 20's, with long dry periods. We have a special word for Winter though - "dreich" (ch as in loch) - which captures the climate in a sound.
Heh. I always joke that Texas has two seasons, Summer and Not Summer, but it actually breaks down more like this (thanks to a meme someone posted in Facebook):
Winter
Fool's Spring
Icepocalypse/Snowmageddon
Spring of Deception
Third Winter
The Pollening
Actual Spring
Noah's Ark
Summer
Hell's Front Porch <- we are here
False Fall
Second Summer
Actual Fall
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Poor you. I hate cold weather.
Here we have a saying that describes each month. In Arabic they rhyme so they are memorizable.
September has its end wet in rain.
Between October and November there is another Summer.
(Both december and janjary are kenoun the first and kenoun the second), so in the kanouns stay in your home and increase your bread and oil. Also in kenoun keep the embers in the kanoun (another word for where you put the embers for grill-it means for warmth)
February, no matter how much it hit or kicked, it has the smell of Summer.
In March keep your big logs (for warmth), it has 7 big snows, not to mention the small (not anymore though)
The water of April enlivens the person
I forgot what there is for May and June
In July the water boils in the cup
August is flamy
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Heh. I always joke that Texas has two seasons, Summer and Not Summer, but it actually breaks down more like this (thanks to a meme someone posted in Facebook):
Winter
Fool's Spring
Icepocalypse/Snowmageddon
Spring of Deception
Third Winter
The Pollening
Actual Spring
Noah's Ark
Summer
Hell's Front Porch <- we are here
False Fall
Second Summer
Actual Fall
I've seen that go around labeled as several different places, though not here--for one thing, the one going around for us has a season, which we've almost hit, labeled "Spiders!"
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An unexpected update from my side is that I am coming to office and enjoying it!
The reasons might be:
I am not requested to come everyday, and there is no number of days that I am forced to attend..just that I attend often
I am not watched when do I come and go if I come. There is no hour that I am obliged to come at..If I come at 10, 11 ..no one will say anything
There is no electricity most of the day at home, which means no internet. Until we put a battery (should be soon after we finally found one), I enjoy working with internet the whole day at office
So, a mixture of rest and work seems to be alright with me ;)