Author Topic: Alan Bean and VAB  (Read 1333 times)

Offline Jeff Raven

  • Venus
  • **
  • Posts: 92
Alan Bean and VAB
« on: January 21, 2023, 08:32:50 AM »
Good morning,

I'm having a back and forth with a landing denier on YT and they have brought up the claim that Alan Bean didn't know about the Van Allen belts. It's my understanding that the source clip they play comes from one of Sibrel's 'movies' (given that the narrator's voice is the same as on A Funny Thing), and it's obviously highly edited, so we don't know the context.

Here's my problem. I have read both here and on Cosmoquest where people have said that the interview question was actually about his Skylab 3 mission, not Apollo, and so his not being sure if they went that far out comes from there. None of the links I can find are still working, nor can I find the full interview. Does anyone have it and can share it?

Also, I read in those same sources that while Bean was CAPCOM for Gemini 11 he talked to the crew about the belts. I've looked through one transcript of the ground to space communication and can't find where he did that, although there is a part where there's a radiation reading requested, and the altitude is about 650 miles and the CC response was "Sounds like it's safer up there than a chest x-ray."  Again, does anyone have something where it's more clear that he spoke to them about the belts?

I would really like to have primary sources for this, so that I can shut them down on this garbage, but unfortunately right now all I can do is point them toward the posts here and at Cosmoquest, and those are secondary sources. And while I know that people here have a ton of expertise on these topics, I know that the deniers won't accept their word.

Any help would really be appreciated.  Thank you.

Offline Obviousman

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 717
Re: Alan Bean and VAB
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2023, 10:19:05 PM »
If anyone would know, it would be Dwight. He knows heaps about Skylab and I am sure he'll be able to add context if it was from those days.

Offline Peter B

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1252
Re: Alan Bean and VAB
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2023, 05:12:25 AM »
And there was me wondering what Alan Bean had to do with the Vehicle Assembly Building...LOL.

My attitude whenever it's raised is to say that Bean didn't need to know about the van Allen Belts for Apollo 12. Its existence didn't affect what he needed to know and do as LMP during the mission, so it's likely he paid no attention to it.

Supporting that, I've read (I think in Chaikin's "Man on the Moon") that Bean specifically said he needed to remember so much for Apollo 12 that he deliberately made no attempt to remember the names of people he met, because he was worried that it would make him forget something he needed to know for the mission.

Having said that, do you think it likely that there'd be a raw video of Sibrel's interviews online? It seems unlikely to me that Sibrel would allow that.

Offline Allan F

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 994
Re: Alan Bean and VAB
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2023, 08:24:54 AM »
You mean like him accidentially leaving evidence he's a fraud?
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline Peter B

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1252
Re: Alan Bean and VAB
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2023, 06:23:25 PM »
You mean like him accidentially leaving evidence he's a fraud?

Let's just say it could reveal evidence of...um...creative editing.

Offline JayUtah

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3778
    • Clavius
Re: Alan Bean and VAB
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2023, 10:19:50 AM »
Bart Sibrel has a long established reputation of editing his source material to make it say what he thinks people will pay him money to hear.

The geometry of the Van Allen belts is dynamic and non-trivial. Their alignment with Earth is dynamic and non-trivial. Their alignment with an inclined orbit around Earth is dynamic and non-trivial. And none of the parameters that describe the radiation exposure is constant across the geometry. If the interview in question is about a Skylab mission, then no it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that Al Bean didn't know whether any part of his mission would contact any biologically-significant part of the Van Allen belts. Someone knew, of course. But the alleged dilemma is based on the ridiculous notion that a member of the flight crew would know every detail that went into a mission planning exercise carried out by hundreds of specialists.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline grmcdorman

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
Re: Alan Bean and VAB
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2023, 01:58:51 PM »
Or that he would need to know, as pointed out.

Offline Jeff Raven

  • Venus
  • **
  • Posts: 92
Re: Alan Bean and VAB
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2023, 03:09:37 PM »
Just wanted to say thanks to those of you who answered me. I didn't want to appear ungrateful for the help, or that I was ignoring the replies. Work, real-life stuff, etc., meant I haven't been back on for a while.  I appreciate, as always, the knowledge, advice, etc., that the members here take time to share.

Offline dwight

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 685
    • Live Tv From the Moon
Re: Alan Bean and VAB
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2023, 05:40:51 PM »
Hi Jeff, my sincerest apologies for joining this discussion so late in the game. I don't have the cosmoquest interview. I would have to go through the mission audio I have for Skylab to see if Al mentions anything about the radiation belts during his flight. As Jay points out, if he was referring to Skylab, then his uncertainty makes a lot of sense.
"Honeysuckle TV on line!"

Offline bknight

  • Neptune
  • ****
  • Posts: 3089
Re: Alan Bean and VAB
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2023, 11:15:11 AM »
Not to mention that some CT, it may have been Sibrel, edited the interview to make it sound like Bean was talking about A12.  Since he didn't know that they went through the VAB, but didn't know it, the "obvious" conclusion that A12 never went through them but remained in LEO. 
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan