Author Topic: Work after COVID  (Read 2104 times)

Offline LionKing

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Work after COVID
« on: September 02, 2021, 05:24:33 AM »
I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.
 
“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi

Offline Obviousman

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2021, 06:09:35 PM »
I have to disagree with you there. A lot of people PREFER to be in a normal workplace. The software developers I work with are a good indication: some of them hate working from home; they need the structure of the office and also prefer the environment. Others would like to WFH full time (as they are now). Some would like a balance of the two.

I can work remotely and have done so for some time.... but as soon as possible, I want back in the office. I need to interact / network with people, find out what is going on, etc (note I am a Defence contractor these days, so being in the office means being with my clients, not my co-workers). I'd like to mix and match it: a few days home, a few days work, etc.

I think that COVID-19 just accelerated something that was already in motion.... but I didn't consider going to my workplace as "slavery".

Offline LionKing

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2021, 06:18:54 AM »
I have to disagree with you there. A lot of people PREFER to be in a normal workplace. The software developers I work with are a good indication: some of them hate working from home; they need the structure of the office and also prefer the environment. Others would like to WFH full time (as they are now). Some would like a balance of the two.

I can work remotely and have done so for some time.... but as soon as possible, I want back in the office. I need to interact / network with people, find out what is going on, etc (note I am a Defence contractor these days, so being in the office means being with my clients, not my co-workers). I'd like to mix and match it: a few days home, a few days work, etc.

I think that COVID-19 just accelerated something that was already in motion.... but I didn't consider going to my workplace as "slavery".
Hi obviousman. I think people are different. My boss used to come all this period too to office because he can concentrate more it seems. Others would want to interact more with people. However, for people like me who enjoyed working from home and found more freedom in that, and if things work in a good way and they are productive and not affecting the results, I don't find a reason to bring them back. I think everyone should be able to choose what he or she prefers as long as work is done.
Works are different. Sometimes you go all day to work and there is no real work because the job was submitted and you are waiting for answer or other reasons. For people who like to sleep in the morning and have some rest, or stay with their young children, it would be a better choice to work from home.
“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2021, 06:20:54 AM »
I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.


Melodramatic, much? You always have a choice in that you can choose to get a different job. I would suggest that if you have that choice then you are a long way away from anything resembling slavery.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Glom

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2021, 08:32:06 AM »
I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.


Melodramatic, much? You always have a choice in that you can choose to get a different job. I would suggest that if you have that choice then you are a long way away from anything resembling slavery.

Yes. That was very crass.

Even though I get along way better than most with solitude and have enjoyed my time at home, I think I would benefit from a more traditional work environment at this point. I gave problems maintaining focus and being away from personal distractions during work hours is helpful. Hence me posting here. I should try to get back to work.

Offline LionKing

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2021, 10:27:49 AM »
I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.


Melodramatic, much? You always have a choice in that you can choose to get a different job. I would suggest that if you have that choice then you are a long way away from anything resembling slavery.

Not really melodramatic. It is your life that is being taken from you, and life is very precious, so is your freedom. 8 hours sitting on a chair is slavery to me.
It is not easy where I live to find another job, and even if you, the rules are pretty much the same. Once the work is done, it doesn't harm the employer that the employee is at leasure . That wouldninclude that the person can choose to come to work if he or she likes. It just shouldn't be imposing on people a way of life. People reach usually from work very tired at evening that they can't do any activity and would need to sleep earlier and get up early like machines. At least this is how I view it. Instead, you have the option to stay at ease at home, and you are relaxed that you can even work at night and take breaks whenever you want. As ling as you are responsible and delivering good work on time, you should have that option to choose.
“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi

Offline LionKing

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2021, 10:29:21 AM »
I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.


Melodramatic, much? You always have a choice in that you can choose to get a different job. I would suggest that if you have that choice then you are a long way away from anything resembling slavery.

Yes. That was very crass.

Even though I get along way better than most with solitude and have enjoyed my time at home, I think I would benefit from a more traditional work environment at this point. I gave problems maintaining focus and being away from personal distractions during work hours is helpful. Hence me posting here. I should try to get back to work.

Maybe but one can stay in their own room and if someone opens the door to ask you a question it would be ok . You can tell those at home not to distract you unless there is something necessary.
“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi

Offline gillianren

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2021, 10:35:05 AM »
So you're having all your rights taken away by your job?  You can have your children taken away from you?  You can be taken away from your family?  You're being beaten if your boss feels like beating you?
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

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Offline LionKing

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2021, 12:20:51 PM »
So you're having all your rights taken away by your job?  You can have your children taken away from you?  You can be taken away from your family?  You're being beaten if your boss feels like beating you?

Beaten? Are you serious?
Just the idea that one can work from home and stay around family instead of staying three quarters of your life away, not eating most of your time with them on the table and so on of the small things that yet make a difference, is I believe worth it to fight for. As long as the work is correcrly done, I repeat. People who can't achieve good work or concentrate for sure would need to work in the setting that makes thrm more productive. What is wrong with that?
“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi

Offline Peter B

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2021, 03:55:04 AM »
I have experienced a degree of freedom in work online from home that I think I can't let go after cpvid ends. I can sleep till I want, work when I want, the most important thing is to deliver on time and do the work as expected. What we were living before was slavery, unnecessary slavery, and out of l9ve of ourselves and respect of our freedom, I believe we as employees should lobby that the idea of sitting in an office should be optional. I think this should be negotiable when the employee has been productive in the online period. I understand that for some types of jobs this option might not be feasible. Maybe it can be feasible in some days in the week for others, but for those whose work can be delivered online, we should not go back to where we were. It is complete control of our lives that we should not be allowing to happen again.

I think demonstrating the ability to work from home has been one of the big upsides of the pandemic. I get the impression a lot of bosses objected to people working from home because it was hard for them to see their staff working - that is, they were more concerned with seeing the process of work happening as opposed to worrying about the outcome. When lockdowns made WFH necessary (and micro-management much harder), it turned out that the work was still being done (and therefore micro-management largely unnecessary).

The other positive I think that has come from the pandemic is the demise of business travel. I get the impression that a lot of business travel wasn't really necessary, but was instead just a pleasant little (or not so little) executive perk. The need to conduct meetings by Zoom saved a lot of travel time and air fare/hotel expense for little loss in productivity when compared with face-to-face meetings.

Having said that, WFH isn't for everyone. I disliked it when we had our first lockdown in 2020, and I'm disliking it now as we go through our Delta lockdown. It's hard to focus, it's hard to do on-the-job training, and most homes aren't set up for work as efficiently as offices can be. And Zoom and Teams are no substitute when you want/need to interact with work colleagues.

WFH is also impossible in a number of situations - transport, security, hospitality and care are four sectors of work I can quickly think of in which WFH is fundamentally impossible.

Offline Peter B

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2021, 04:07:52 AM »
So you're having all your rights taken away by your job?  You can have your children taken away from you?  You can be taken away from your family?  You're being beaten if your boss feels like beating you?

Beaten? Are you serious?
Just the idea that one can work from home and stay around family instead of staying three quarters of your life away, not eating most of your time with them on the table and so on of the small things that yet make a difference, is I believe worth it to fight for. As long as the work is correcrly done, I repeat. People who can't achieve good work or concentrate for sure would need to work in the setting that makes thrm more productive. What is wrong with that?

LionKing, you used the word "slavery" to describe your pre-COVID work situation.

To a lot of Americans (and frankly, to many people around the world) "slavery" means something far more terrible than what you mean. Think, specifically, of slavery in the USA up to 1865 - where slaves were people who had essentially no rights. They were treated as property rather than people, they were whipped, beaten, chained up, starved, raped, murdered, separated from family on the owner's whim, forbidden to learn to read and write, and probably a few other degrading humiliations I can't think of.

By comparison, you are either an employee or a contractor. You are paid for your work, you can resign and find another job or even start a business of your own, and you can travel. Thanks to the Internet you could even work for an employer in another country. As unpleasant as things are in your country, you have far more freedoms than any slave *.

* I have used similar arguments against people living in wealthy Western countries who claim they are slaves in some way. They have even less of an excuse than you.

Offline LionKing

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2021, 04:38:42 AM »
So you're having all your rights taken away by your job?  You can have your children taken away from you?  You can be taken away from your family?  You're being beaten if your boss feels like beating you?

Beaten? Are you serious?
Just the idea that one can work from home and stay around family instead of staying three quarters of your life away, not eating most of your time with them on the table and so on of the small things that yet make a difference, is I believe worth it to fight for. As long as the work is correcrly done, I repeat. People who can't achieve good work or concentrate for sure would need to work in the setting that makes thrm more productive. What is wrong with that?

LionKing, you used the word "slavery" to describe your pre-COVID work situation.

To a lot of Americans (and frankly, to many people around the world) "slavery" means something far more terrible than what you mean. Think, specifically, of slavery in the USA up to 1865 - where slaves were people who had essentially no rights. They were treated as property rather than people, they were whipped, beaten, chained up, starved, raped, murdered, separated from family on the owner's whim, forbidden to learn to read and write, and probably a few other degrading humiliations I can't think of.

By comparison, you are either an employee or a contractor. You are paid for your work, you can resign and find another job or even start a business of your own, and you can travel. Thanks to the Internet you could even work for an employer in another country. As unpleasant as things are in your country, you have far more freedoms than any slave *.

* I have used similar arguments against people living in wealthy Western countries who claim they are slaves in some way. They have even less of an excuse than you.
I meant things metaphorically. Of course it is not that literal and that awful. Just the notion of lack of freedom and being under watching eyes. Mayne in your culture you use the word to mean something nore literal.
“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi

Offline LionKing

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2021, 04:50:50 AM »
So you're having all your rights taken away by your job?  You can have your children taken away from you?  You can be taken away from your family?  You're being beaten if your boss feels like beating you?

Beaten? Are you serious?
Just the idea that one can work from home and stay around family instead of staying three quarters of your life away, not eating most of your time with them on the table and so on of the small things that yet make a difference, is I believe worth it to fight for. As long as the work is correcrly done, I repeat. People who can't achieve good work or concentrate for sure would need to work in the setting that makes thrm more productive. What is wrong with that?

LionKing, you used the word "slavery" to describe your pre-COVID work situation.

To a lot of Americans (and frankly, to many people around the world) "slavery" means something far more terrible than what you mean. Think, specifically, of slavery in the USA up to 1865 - where slaves were people who had essentially no rights. They were treated as property rather than people, they were whipped, beaten, chained up, starved, raped, murdered, separated from family on the owner's whim, forbidden to learn to read and write, and probably a few other degrading humiliations I can't think of.

By comparison, you are either an employee or a contractor. You are paid for your work, you can resign and find another job or even start a business of your own, and you can travel. Thanks to the Internet you could even work for an employer in another country. As unpleasant as things are in your country, you have far more freedoms than any slave *.

* I have used similar arguments against people living in wealthy Western countries who claim they are slaves in some way. They have even less of an excuse than you.

Even my work still had much much better conditions than others. Many people work Saturdays which I object to a lot. I worked with many people, and many allowed me to come at 9:30, others when I wanted (but i still came not to cause any problems in case bad people speak that I am not coming on time), others wouldn't allow buy exactly at 9 , other 8:30 ..
The issue is it is physically tiresome to stay all the day sitting and you come back home you just want to eat and sleep. If you can't concentrate, it is fine, come to work  However, it should be your responsibility and your choice to work wherever you want. We are bot kids (not to use slaves) who should be watched always. Results oriented work will help many people, especially those with little kids. During covid, children also need online education and mothers should be by thier side or any of their parents. Different reasons.. still the core of what I am saying is that covid proved there is no binding reason for workers to attend. And those travel issues and unnecessary expenses are also included as you say. Yes many people like to have face-to-face interaction, but when you think of the expenses I think priority should be given to saving money.
“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi

Offline jfb

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2021, 09:34:36 AM »
Working from home for over a year has not been good for me.  I legitimately missed my daily commute, as that was kind of "me" time where I could yell at people, play my music very loudly, and basically just be silly without disturbing anyone.  I am far more focused and productive in an office environment (for suitably loose values of "focused" and "productive").  I have a bigger rig in the office, I don’t have to pay for sodas, and Zoom is a poor substitute for sitting at someone’s desk to work out a problem. 

I got vaccinated in late April and started going back to the office in June.  And then Texas, being Texas, decided to ban enforcement of the most basic measures to limit the spread and Delta’s exploded and I’m working from home again and I hate it. 

We had a fairly generous work from home policy before the plague hit, although it was expected you would be in the office most days.  Now, it feels like the reverse is going to be true going forward - our lease on our current (very nice) space is up next August, and we’re on the hunt for a new, smaller, "hipper" space, which I interpret to mean that they intend for most people to work from home full-time.  And for our business, it isn’t that big a deal.  But there are jobs which do require you to be on site, and you have two choices in that matter - show up or find a new job. 

Offline LionKing

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Re: Work after COVID
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2021, 01:38:07 PM »
Working from home for over a year has not been good for me.  I legitimately missed my daily commute, as that was kind of "me" time where I could yell at people, play my music very loudly, and basically just be silly without disturbing anyone.  I am far more focused and productive in an office environment (for suitably loose values of "focused" and "productive").  I have a bigger rig in the office, I don’t have to pay for sodas, and Zoom is a poor substitute for sitting at someone’s desk to work out a problem. 

I got vaccinated in late April and started going back to the office in June.  And then Texas, being Texas, decided to ban enforcement of the most basic measures to limit the spread and Delta’s exploded and I’m working from home again and I hate it. 

We had a fairly generous work from home policy before the plague hit, although it was expected you would be in the office most days.  Now, it feels like the reverse is going to be true going forward - our lease on our current (very nice) space is up next August, and we’re on the hunt for a new, smaller, "hipper" space, which I interpret to mean that they intend for most people to work from home full-time.  And for our business, it isn’t that big a deal.  But there are jobs which do require you to be on site, and you have two choices in that matter - show up or find a new job.

How can you play music very loudly and shout on everyone without bothering anyone ? :)

Yes I agree there are jobs requiring staying on site. For example, the nurse and other health staff. To me, I am enjoying my stay at home with family. It is a golden opportunity because people don't stay around forever.
Another thing I am enjoying is that there are no big weddings and engagements. Sunday is the first engagement I will attend for only 40 people since the start of COVID. In our culture, it is a big fuss. You need to get clothes before time, take an appointment with the hairdresser because she will be very busy, go to the wedding at day when the groom comes to get the bride, go back and eat at home, and wait for the night to come to attend the night wedding that will stay for a late time. During the waiting time until night you remove the dress very carefully to dress your pajama and be very careful not to spoil your hair, until you dress it or dress another one even for the night wedding.. I know your sensitivity by now on the word slavery, so I will call it extremely controlling and confining of freedom. This is not to speak about the huge expenses that the groom has to pay for the wedding day, the dress of the bride, the food for the people, etc.  I am glad that all this nonsense is gone.

I am also happy for the kids. I don't know what to call the education system that , like employees, gets children to sit all day on chairs. What to call a system that makes 4 years-old children get up in wintery days when it is still dark and  take them from the warmth of their mothers and take them crying to the school. I understand however that there have been many challenges for this system of online and for the teachers, but everything has pros and cons.

“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi