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Off Topic => Other Conspiracy Theories => Topic started by: Dalhousie on March 28, 2020, 12:31:48 AM

Title: COVID-19
Post by: Dalhousie on March 28, 2020, 12:31:48 AM
A certain nameless family member seemed to successfully filled their bingo card.  To summarise:

"COVID 19 is a bioengineered virus spread by chemtrails after after mass immunisations weakened people's immune systems.  The virus was activated by microwave radiation from newly installed 5G networks"  I think that is what they said at any rate, the original was somewhat more incoherent.   ::)  ::)

Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on March 28, 2020, 03:06:09 AM
Everyone knows it was a Chinese plot to destabilise the West’s economy. Or so I’ve been told on Facebook. 😂😂😂
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Dalhousie on March 28, 2020, 03:27:51 AM
Then there is the capitalist plot to get rid of old people.

Or the CIA attack on China
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on March 28, 2020, 04:35:34 AM
Then there is the capitalist plot to get rid of old people.

Or the CIA attack on China

The latter one has backfired then.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: molesworth on March 28, 2020, 05:08:00 AM
Then there is the capitalist plot to get rid of old people.
Considering that older people make up a large part of the right wing voter base, this seems like a counter-productive idea.

There again, when did a conspiracy theory ever make sense?  ;D
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Obviousman on March 28, 2020, 05:26:50 PM
The 'boomer remover'.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: cambo on March 30, 2020, 06:09:01 PM

Quote
when did a conspiracy theory ever make sense?

OK, that’ll do, it’s time we all crawled back out from under our beds, stop watching the telly and reading the newspapers and do our own research, while staying well clear of Google.

Look for the real figures. Find the death toll figures for this time last year and compare them to what we have now and pay particular attention to flu and respiratory related deaths.

Educate yourselves on how the test works with its flaws and limitations. Find out how common these Corona viruses are and ask yourself why Germany have by far the lowest percentage of deaths in relation to the so-called confirmed cases.

Have you seen inside the wards teeming with virus sufferers? And before you start going on about how many people you know working for the health service, I myself know a fair few, including a couple of family members. Fair enough, the ones I spoke to say they are rushed off their feet, but isn’t that the norm in the winter months?

Here in the UK the NHS have been struggling to cope for years, so we are lead to believe, long before this new flu bug came along. Even if our hospitals really are chock-a-block with flu patients, there’s a perfectly simple explanation for that. Problem is, a bit of logic may be required during your research, so I don’t hold out much hope for most of the population.

When you have all the information in front of you, ask yourself if a seasonal flu bug is a valid excuse for placing us under house arrest and potentially putting millions of people out of work and bringing the economy to its knees. My private pension has took a massive nosedive, so the rest of my retirement may not be so rosy after all. It feels like we’re in some holocaust movie, only this is for real, apart from this so called deadly killer virus of course.

When this latest scare tactic blows over, we’ll all be thankful to our governments for potentially saving millions of lives. Lives that were never going to be lost in the first place.

I’m high risk because I have a chronic lung disease and asthma and it wasn’t all that long ago since I underwent major heart surgery. I’m locked up in my home until further notice, which makes it difficult to get the proper exercise I need. Am I worried? The only reason I’m not out roaming the streets, licking people’s faces is because it would upset my family. If it wasn’t for them, I’d be living in a forest, eating squirrels by now.

When an individual person in a hospital bed, looks out at you from your TV and says “look at me, this is what you get if you go out” it makes you sad and incredibly thankful that you are one of the lucky ones, does it not? Well stop it! You need to get things into perspective, as there are millions of people in hospital at any one time, hooked up to machines with tubes hanging from nearly every orifice. But one person on a news bulletin is enough to seal the deal.

This is how easy it is to fool people, because most of us will never be able to comprehend what our leaders are capable of. Plenty of people don’t trust their government, but to go this far would be completely absurd, wouldn’t it? We all had better get used to this way of life, because this is just the latest step towards their goal. Just imagine, no more protest marches, no more riots, no more terror attacks, as there would be no further need for them, and crime would be virtually non-existent. If I’m still here in five years’ time, let’s see how many people are telling me I was wrong.

I realise some people will be genuinely upset and even disgusted and appalled at my words, as there are lots of people who are experiencing what they think is a direct result of this fictitious pandemic. Flu kills people in poor health, the old and frail and even the odd seemingly healthy among us, so what we’re experiencing is normal, but it’s been cleverly spun by the elite few.

Even our leaders are probably oblivious to the scam, as they make decisions based on advice from their advisers who probably get their advice from someone higher in the chain. The alleged scientists giving advice are not scientists, you have to dig deep to find the real ones. These are the people that should open your eyes, and yes, this time they are real scientists.

It only took me a couple of days to source and process the information which exposes the scam, so if I can do it, so can you. You’re getting no help from me on this one. If you are too bone idle or dim witted to put the work in, then it’s no fault of mine. Maybe you think there is no need, as you have complete faith in the media, then more fool you.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: LunarOrbit on March 30, 2020, 07:16:22 PM
I will not tolerate any conspiracy theory that could endanger others.

Only time will tell just how deadly COVID-19 will end up being, but at this moment, when we could be seeing 200,000 deaths in the United States in the weeks or months ahead, it is not smart to assume that it is being over-hyped. Assume it is deadly, and be safe. Don't be stupid.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on March 31, 2020, 04:54:18 AM
Cambo, you sir are a complete idiot. Statements like
Quote
The only reason I’m not out roaming the streets, licking people’s faces is because it would upset my family.
are disgusting.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on March 31, 2020, 11:55:58 AM
Also, such a classy Holocaust reference.

"It's just a seasonal flu" doesn't explain the exponential case growth.  It doesn't take much "independent research" to know that the fear is completely justified--the fact that a lot of these hospitals have already been overwhelmed is why the response needs to be as serious as it is.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: molesworth on April 04, 2020, 07:49:42 AM
Cambo, you sir are a complete idiot.
That pretty much sums up my response as well.

This is NOT a seasonal flu virus - it's not even in the same virus family.

Two key numbers explain why this is a disease which needs to be taken seriously, r0 - the rate of infection spread, and the Case Fatality Rate (CFR).  For influenza, r0 is around 1.3, while for Covid-19 it's somewhere between 2 and 3, so the latter is going to spread much more quickly and result in much higher infection rates in any given population.

Infected individuals can spread it even before symptoms appear, and because a lot of people are asymptomatic after infection, they aren't aware they might be spreading it.  (Some estimates say that 10% of most countries' populations are already affected, but likely asymptomatic.)  The longer average incubation time compared to flu increases the likelihood of spread as well.

The CFR is also much higher, being something like 0.1% for flu, and between 1% and 3% for Covid-19.  Taking these two figures together, and the lack of any effective vaccine or treatments, the worldwide impact of Covid-19 is going to be devastating.  Anybody downplaying it, or saying it's some sort of insane government conspiracy needs to take a long, hard look at where they're getting their information from, and maybe learn a little bit of real science.

Oh, and since this is the "Other Conspiracy Theories" sub-forum, I've just read a report that telephone engineers in the UK are being harassed and abused by people who think the roll-out of 5G is the cause of the disease, not a virus!  They're even setting fire to cell towers, just when people need connectivity more than ever.  (And of course there are the usual celebs backing and publicising these idiotic ideas.)  <shakes head despondently>
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on April 04, 2020, 09:27:25 AM

when did a conspiracy theory ever make sense?

OK, that’ll do, it’s time we all crawled back out from under our beds, stop watching the telly and reading the newspapers and do our own research, while staying well clear of Google.

Look for the real figures. Find the death toll figures for this time last year and compare them to what we have now and pay particular attention to flu and respiratory related deaths.

Educate yourselves on how the test works with its flaws and limitations. Find out how common these Corona viruses are and ask yourself why Germany have by far the lowest percentage of deaths in relation to the so-called confirmed cases.

Have you seen inside the wards teeming with virus sufferers? And before you start going on about how many people you know working for the health service, I myself know a fair few, including a couple of family members. Fair enough, the ones I spoke to say they are rushed off their feet, but isn’t that the norm in the winter months?

Here in the UK the NHS have been struggling to cope for years, so we are lead to believe, long before this new flu bug came along. Even if our hospitals really are chock-a-block with flu patients, there’s a perfectly simple explanation for that. Problem is, a bit of logic may be required during your research, so I don’t hold out much hope for most of the population.

When you have all the information in front of you, ask yourself if a seasonal flu bug is a valid excuse for placing us under house arrest and potentially putting millions of people out of work and bringing the economy to its knees. My private pension has took a massive nosedive, so the rest of my retirement may not be so rosy after all. It feels like we’re in some holocaust movie, only this is for real, apart from this so called deadly killer virus of course.

When this latest scare tactic blows over, we’ll all be thankful to our governments for potentially saving millions of lives. Lives that were never going to be lost in the first place.

I’m high risk because I have a chronic lung disease and asthma and it wasn’t all that long ago since I underwent major heart surgery. I’m locked up in my home until further notice, which makes it difficult to get the proper exercise I need. Am I worried? The only reason I’m not out roaming the streets, licking people’s faces is because it would upset my family. If it wasn’t for them, I’d be living in a forest, eating squirrels by now.

When an individual person in a hospital bed, looks out at you from your TV and says “look at me, this is what you get if you go out” it makes you sad and incredibly thankful that you are one of the lucky ones, does it not? Well stop it! You need to get things into perspective, as there are millions of people in hospital at any one time, hooked up to machines with tubes hanging from nearly every orifice. But one person on a news bulletin is enough to seal the deal.

This is how easy it is to fool people, because most of us will never be able to comprehend what our leaders are capable of. Plenty of people don’t trust their government, but to go this far would be completely absurd, wouldn’t it? We all had better get used to this way of life, because this is just the latest step towards their goal. Just imagine, no more protest marches, no more riots, no more terror attacks, as there would be no further need for them, and crime would be virtually non-existent. If I’m still here in five years’ time, let’s see how many people are telling me I was wrong.

I realise some people will be genuinely upset and even disgusted and appalled at my words, as there are lots of people who are experiencing what they think is a direct result of this fictitious pandemic. Flu kills people in poor health, the old and frail and even the odd seemingly healthy among us, so what we’re experiencing is normal, but it’s been cleverly spun by the elite few.

Even our leaders are probably oblivious to the scam, as they make decisions based on advice from their advisers who probably get their advice from someone higher in the chain. The alleged scientists giving advice are not scientists, you have to dig deep to find the real ones. These are the people that should open your eyes, and yes, this time they are real scientists.

It only took me a couple of days to source and process the information which exposes the scam, so if I can do it, so can you. You’re getting no help from me on this one. If you are too bone idle or dim witted to put the work in, then it’s no fault of mine. Maybe you think there is no need, as you have complete faith in the media, then more fool you.

Right.

So the demographic stats for the UK suggest roughly 600,000 people die each year. That's about 1660 a day, though I bet that would vary to some extent month by month - my guess more in winter and fewer in summer. Now the reports are saying that 300+ people are dying each day from the coronavirus. That means that the daily number of deaths in the UK must be at least 20% higher than pre-virus. That sort of figure should be possible to check.

So Cambo, if you're still reading this, why not phone your local undertakers and ask them what business is like.

But never mind the UK. If you're still convinced everything is just tickety-boo in the UK, what about other countries?

You could check on Spain, with about 70% of the population of the UK, and as many as 800 people a day dying from the coronavirus. Are these numbers made up? Are all the people mourning dead family members just that old conspiritard stand-by of "crisis actors"? When a funeral provider says it's performing six times as many funerals as normal, is that fake statistics? (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-01/spains-coronavirus-reality-is-grim-how-did-it-start-there/12103590)

Or New York, where refrigerator trucks are parked outside hospitals to help with storing the extra corpses. Are the people seeing (and hearing) them telling fibs? Given what unemployment benefits are in the US, do you think the massive increase in people applying for them is due to a sudden surge of laziness? Or is it due to a massive economic downturn? (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-04/how-new-york-was-badly-hit-by-coronavirus-covid-19/12114976)

And here in Australia, do you seriously think a conservative government would introduce economic measures they themselves dismissed as socialist barely months ago (increasing unemployment benefits, providing wage subsidies to allow businesses to continue to employ people, providing free childcare for everyone, eviction moratoriums, and negotiating access to private hospital ICU beds to supplement the ICU beds available in the public health system) unless there was a hugely compelling reason? (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-31/coronavirus-scott-morrison-consensus-jobkeeper/12106334?section=analysis) [I particularly recommend reading this article - Annabel Crabb is a superb writer.]

I had to visit the doctor yesterday for an iron infusion (I have my own chronic health issues). Instead of the usual 50-odd chairs in the waiting room there were about eight. When I entered my temperature was taken and I had to answer questions about my health and use hospital-grade hand sanitiser. While I was waiting I saw one of the staff wipe down all the hard surfaces of the reception desk. And all the GPs in the clinic wore scrubs and face masks instead of ordinary clothes. Have the entire staff of the clinic been taken in by some massive conspiracy? Or are they all part of it?

Or, gee, do you think there may actually be a pandemic disease sweeping the world in a way nothing has done in the last century?

What is actually so hard to believe about this?
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on April 04, 2020, 11:29:21 AM
Oh, and since this is the "Other Conspiracy Theories" sub-forum, I've just read a report that telephone engineers in the UK are being harassed and abused by people who think the roll-out of 5G is the cause of the disease, not a virus!  They're even setting fire to cell towers, just when people need connectivity more than ever.  (And of course there are the usual celebs backing and publicising these idiotic ideas.)  <shakes head despondently>

I apparently have a friend who believes that 5G is dangerous and that people have been fooled to allow it because the law sneaked through during a time of tragedy.  She does believe in the virus, but she claims to be "sensitive" to the frequencies and says it's already making her sick.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on April 04, 2020, 12:35:37 PM

I apparently have a friend who believes that 5G is dangerous and that people have been fooled to allow it because the law sneaked through during a time of tragedy.  She does believe in the virus, but she claims to be "sensitive" to the frequencies and says it's already making her sick.

Your friend is an idiot.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: smartcooky on April 05, 2020, 07:38:24 AM
<Snipped for safety>

Right.

So the demographic stats for the UK suggest roughly 600,000 people die each year. That's about 1660 a day, though I bet that would vary to some extent month by month - my guess more in winter and fewer in summer. Now the reports are saying that 300+ people are dying each day from the coronavirus. That means that the daily number of deaths in the UK must be at least 20% higher than pre-virus. That sort of figure should be possible to check.

So Cambo, if you're still reading this, why not phone your local undertakers and ask them what business is like.

But never mind the UK. If you're still convinced everything is just tickety-boo in the UK, what about other countries?

You could check on Spain, with about 70% of the population of the UK, and as many as 800 people a day dying from the coronavirus. Are these numbers made up? Are all the people mourning dead family members just that old conspiritard stand-by of "crisis actors"? When a funeral provider says it's performing six times as many funerals as normal, is that fake statistics? (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-01/spains-coronavirus-reality-is-grim-how-did-it-start-there/12103590)

Or New York, where refrigerator trucks are parked outside hospitals to help with storing the extra corpses. Are the people seeing (and hearing) them telling fibs? Given what unemployment benefits are in the US, do you think the massive increase in people applying for them is due to a sudden surge of laziness? Or is it due to a massive economic downturn? (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-04/how-new-york-was-badly-hit-by-coronavirus-covid-19/12114976)

And here in Australia, do you seriously think a conservative government would introduce economic measures they themselves dismissed as socialist barely months ago (increasing unemployment benefits, providing wage subsidies to allow businesses to continue to employ people, providing free childcare for everyone, eviction moratoriums, and negotiating access to private hospital ICU beds to supplement the ICU beds available in the public health system) unless there was a hugely compelling reason? (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-31/coronavirus-scott-morrison-consensus-jobkeeper/12106334?section=analysis) [I particularly recommend reading this article - Annabel Crabb is a superb writer.]

I had to visit the doctor yesterday for an iron infusion (I have my own chronic health issues). Instead of the usual 50-odd chairs in the waiting room there were about eight. When I entered my temperature was taken and I had to answer questions about my health and use hospital-grade hand sanitiser. While I was waiting I saw one of the staff wipe down all the hard surfaces of the reception desk. And all the GPs in the clinic wore scrubs and face masks instead of ordinary clothes. Have the entire staff of the clinic been taken in by some massive conspiracy? Or are they all part of it?

Or, gee, do you think there may actually be a pandemic disease sweeping the world in a way nothing has done in the last century?

What is actually so hard to believe about this?

Peter, you won't get an answer, you're replying to a banned poster

http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=109.msg53051#msg53051
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on April 06, 2020, 07:08:34 AM

Peter, you won't get an answer, you're replying to a banned poster

http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=109.msg53051#msg53051

Yeah, but I figured that if he was interested enough in the site to attempt to create a sock puppet he might perhaps read responses to the post that got him banned in the first place.

In any case, like with Apollo Hoax comments generally, I can also hope to address people who might potentially be taken in by cambo's comments.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on April 30, 2020, 10:49:36 AM
Over at Unexplained Mysteries there's a thread listing and discussing the various conspiracy theories relating to the virus. They've reached 100 so far...

But one of the more recent topics has been the drug remdesivir - a horribly expensive drug still under patent that the thread's resident conspiracy theorists think is being pushed by miscellaneous lefties and Trump-haters as opposed to the cheap generic hydroxychloroquine that Trump had been touting lately.

Only now, I see Trump is touting remdesivir.

I wait with interest to see how the conspiracy theorists rationalise that...
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Obviousman on April 30, 2020, 04:36:49 PM
Over at Unexplained Mysteries there's a thread listing and discussing the various conspiracy theories relating to the virus. They've reached 100 so far...

But one of the more recent topics has been the drug remdesivir - a horribly expensive drug still under patent that the thread's resident conspiracy theorists think is being pushed by miscellaneous lefties and Trump-haters as opposed to the cheap generic hydroxychloroquine that Trump had been touting lately.

Only now, I see Trump is touting remdesivir.

I wait with interest to see how the conspiracy theorists rationalise that...

Yeah, it will be refreshing to see some people realise they have made an error, admit to it, and reconsider their stance... *POP* Oh - that was just a fantasy.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on May 01, 2020, 01:15:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/EQaleUk.jpg)
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on May 07, 2020, 09:26:51 AM
What a relief!

Just today we found out that government schools will be reopening in 2-3 weeks. This is after the ACT having had only one COVID-19 case in a population of over 400,000 in the last 10 days or so.

The kids have been doing moderately well with online schooling, but the boys are both agile and smart enough to be able to sneak game time when they should be doing assignments or taking part in video conferences. Plus they've had few opportunities to get much outside time. So it'll be good for their brains and bodies to get back to school.

Then, tonight I had to go down to the supermarket for some late evening shopping. The social distancing markers are still in place inside the shop, but they've scrapped the entry queue to limit customer numbers at the entrance.

Such small changes in the grand scheme of things, but it's a wonderful feeling to have a loosening of restrictions for once.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 07, 2020, 10:42:53 AM
The park down the street from us has opened, I believe.  It's not much of one--just a boat launch, really, as we live near a lake--but I might walk over there with the kids later today.  I've got a couple of friends arguing for considerably loosened restrictions, but we won't be able to open even to our governor's proposed smallest easing of restrictions until we've got considerably more testing available.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Ranb on May 07, 2020, 09:30:32 PM
The Tahuya Forest in western WA was reopened yesterday.  ATV riding for me this weekend!
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: raven on May 08, 2020, 03:43:42 AM
Can't wait for the Canada/US borders reopen, so I can visit my American boyfriend. And, yes, this does make me the Canadian girlfriend trope. ;D
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Obviousman on May 08, 2020, 05:39:29 AM
I can't wait for the borders to open so I can.... So I can...... ah, bugger. Nothing to do!
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 08, 2020, 12:11:53 PM
A friend of a friend said yesterday that the whole "Bill Gates is Satan" thing wasn't made up, because it was in the Book of Revelation.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: raven on May 08, 2020, 08:59:50 PM
A friend of a friend said yesterday that the whole "Bill Gates is Satan" thing wasn't made up, because it was in the Book of Revelation.
"And lo, the angel broke the rainbow seal, and out came a man of nerdy mien, his eyes covered in crystal, and a dorkish mode to his short locks. He would bring unity yet division to computation, bringing windows to the world, and as many would curse as would praise his works." Revelations 3:11.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on May 08, 2020, 09:38:03 PM
A friend of a friend said yesterday that the whole "Bill Gates is Satan" thing wasn't made up, because it was in the Book of Revelation.
"And lo, the angel broke the rainbow seal, and out came a man of nerdy mien, his eyes covered in crystal, and a dorkish mode to his short locks. He would bring unity yet division to computation, bringing windows to the world, and as many would curse as would praise his works." Revelations 3:11.

Ah yes, I'd recognise MS Bible anywhere...
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on May 09, 2020, 12:44:21 PM
Ah yes, I'd recognise MS Bible anywhere...

In the beginning was the Word.  Then the Excel  Then the Powerpoint.  Then the Outlook.  And there was great rejoicing.  (Yay!)

I love how everyone thinks Microsoft invented word processing.  Long before it was WordPerfect, a product out of my home state (although from the valley to the south.)  It ran in text mode on MS-DOS and was the go-to product for many years.  I mention it because the former WordPerfect campus has been recycled into offices and headquarters for so many companies since then.  Adobe even occupied it for a while.  It's the cathedral of Silicon Slopes.  Its tenants at any time literally only have to say, "We're in the former WordPerfect offices," and everyone instantly knows where you are and how to get there.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on May 09, 2020, 01:20:19 PM
I've got a couple of friends arguing for considerably loosened restrictions, but we won't be able to open even to our governor's proposed smallest easing of restrictions until we've got considerably more testing available.

At present I think there's only one state that has looser restrictions than Utah:  Tennessee, if memory serves.  All public spaces are open, subject to the two-meter ("six feet") separation and cloth mask guidelines.  In most public places, the separation still happens.  Mask-wearing is sporadic.  Businesses that can accommodate the two-meter separation may receive customers, including restaurants and bars.  We're one of the States whose Governor did not issue a stay-at-home order, although our city and county did.  They expired May 1, replaced by lesser restrictions.  Because our population is highly concentrated into a strip of four counties, a statewide order doesn't make a lot of sense.  Except that only three of the four populous counties quarantined their inhabitants.  That's the county that made national headlines for COVID-19 clusters at two businesses.  Their owners forced employees to come to work even after testing positive.  That's the kind of thing that makes you facepalm, if you were allowed to touch your face.

Sadly our curve is not flattening.  But it was relatively flat to start with.  We've had a very low infection rate and a very low mortality rate.  The present trend assures us that we will have enough hospital beds to treat the infected.  And we have a surplus of testing capacity.  The problem, of course, is that this is American and few people can afford to go to the hospital.  So those criteria for reopening the state are suspiciously biased in favor of well-off business owners.  Thankfully my company's criteria for resuming non-critical onsite labor is based on a gateway criterion worked out with our state epidemiologist.  We require 14 consecutive days of non-increasing positive test rates.  We'll consider a staged reintegration at that time. I have to say it's such a blessing to have a company populated by people who know implicitly how to trust science, who pay attention to data, and who are already fanatics about cleanliness and compliance.  It makes it so much easier to stomach the chaos I see elsewhere around me.

Sadly all the hiking trails near the city are jam-packed, and distancing is not happening.  It really can't.  You can't go six feet off the trail in most cases without plummeting.  However our air quality is amazingly good.  We suffer normally from chronic pollution, due to the geography of our valley.  Ironically, because this results in year-round respiratory complaints, our hospitals are disproportionately endowed with ventilators.  Luckily it's easy to throw the dogs in the car and drive out to places where there simply are no other people.  Folks on the coasts don't often get that.  There are big chunks of Utah that the USAF uses for target practice.  That's the sort of wide-open spaces we have available when you need to stay apart from people.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: apollo16uvc on May 09, 2020, 02:46:18 PM
I think the virus will be virtually gone from the Netherlands in 1, at most 2 months. At the rate new cases and deaths are currently decreasing.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on May 09, 2020, 08:23:55 PM
I think the virus will be virtually gone from the Netherlands in 1, at most 2 months. At the rate new cases and deaths are currently decreasing.

That's really good news.  We Americans these days are so accustomed to a depressing, acerbic, and contentious news cycle.  Glimmers of hope are welcome.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on May 10, 2020, 09:36:48 AM
I think the virus will be virtually gone from the Netherlands in 1, at most 2 months. At the rate new cases and deaths are currently decreasing.

All of which is great news. However, until we get an effective treatment or vaccine then the COVI-19 can and will return. You cannot maintain a hard lock down indefinitely, and it only takes on infectious person on an inbound flight to lick the whole thing off again, UNLESS you have a highly efficient contact tracing and testing environment in place.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on May 10, 2020, 11:56:06 AM
I'm hoping that some of the behaviors such as hand-washing, distancing, and mask-wearing will have more of a lasting effect at blunting the inevitable autumn return.  Until this illness, Americans looked very askance at people wearing filtration masks in public.  And, believe it or not, I currently get yelled things from cars while I'm walking on the street with my N95 mask on.  Here's what's funny:  I mentioned out temperature inversions that make us one of the most polluted cities during winter.  When people wear filtration masks voluntarily during these periods, people don't really mind.  But now that we're being told to wear them, there's not just stubborn resistance but active shaming.

So maybe the mask-wearing won't persist.  But maybe people will have learned some sort of lesson.

Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 10, 2020, 01:06:27 PM
I know a lot of my friends are planning to keep their cloth masks for later, when they have colds.  I'm also definitely looking at fire season--my handmade mask won't be perfect for that, but it'll be better than nothing.  Especially because the ones I make have an opening to put a filter into.  (Side note, if anyone is in need, send me a message and we'll work something out.)  Mask use is far from universal here in Washington State, which may well be why my best friend has had to get tested and may be positive (she hasn't gotten the results yet), but we're flattening our curve more than a lot of other states.  It's nice to have an intelligent governor.

Meanwhile, I am left wondering what our new neighbourhood sounds like when there isn't a pandemic--I don't think we'll ever be that loud, except noise drifting from the nearby lake, but we moved into a house last month.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Britmax on May 11, 2020, 07:19:14 AM
Ah yes, I'd recognise MS Bible anywhere...

In the beginning was the Word.  Then the Excel  Then the Powerpoint.  Then the Outlook.  And there was great rejoicing.  (Yay!)

I love how everyone thinks Microsoft invented word processing.  Long before it was WordPerfect, a product out of my home state (although from the valley to the south.)  It ran in text mode on MS-DOS and was the go-to product for many years.  I mention it because the former WordPerfect campus has been recycled into offices and headquarters for so many companies since then.  Adobe even occupied it for a while.  It's the cathedral of Silicon Slopes.  Its tenants at any time literally only have to say, "We're in the former WordPerfect offices," and everyone instantly knows where you are and how to get there.

Yes, the novel Bomber, by the British author Len Deighton, has claimed to be the first written out on a word processer. I first bought a copy with the prize money for something modest I did at school, the year it was published, 1970. Great book, by the way. Without undue added drama it captures the indiscriminate nature of industrialised warfare. Everyone should read it. 
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 11, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Good news--my best friend tested negative.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Obviousman on May 11, 2020, 04:20:31 PM
Good to hear.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: raven on May 11, 2020, 07:47:43 PM
Awesome, for both your friend, you, and their other loved ones! :D
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 12, 2020, 12:00:51 PM
Her mom's a midwife, and while I don't think they've had any close contact since this began--she lives with her husband and a roommate, not her mom--it doesn't take much imagination to be terrified by the potential consequences.  Actually, I need to sit down and make masks for her mom at some point soon.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Jason Thompson on May 14, 2020, 08:53:58 AM
I have a question for American members here. I keep seeing reports of a vocal (and violent) minority demanding their 'right' to go into a store without a mask. I'm wondering how that really works in the US. Here in the UK you do not have any 'right' to enter any store, pub or restaurant. They are considered the private property of the owner and the opening to the public is entirely at their discretion. Many have signs up pointing out that management reserve the right to refuse service or eject anyone for any reason. If they say you can't go in without a mask, shirt, shoes or without being dressed up as Mickey Mouse, that's the rule and you don't get to contest it, nor is there any legal basis on which you may do so. Is it different in the US or are these people just idiots who think living in a 'free' world means they can literally do what they want?
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on May 14, 2020, 09:34:55 AM
I have a question for American members here. I keep seeing reports of a vocal (and violent) minority demanding their 'right' to go into a store without a mask. I'm wondering how that really works in the US. Here in the UK you do not have any 'right' to enter any store, pub or restaurant. They are considered the private property of the owner and the opening to the public is entirely at their discretion. Many have signs up pointing out that management reserve the right to refuse service or eject anyone for any reason. If they say you can't go in without a mask, shirt, shoes or without being dressed up as Mickey Mouse, that's the rule and you don't get to contest it, nor is there any legal basis on which you may do so. Is it different in the US or are these people just idiots who think living in a 'free' world means they can literally do what they want?

The same idiots want to arm themselves like a mercenary to "protect their family", but won't wear a simple mask to do the same.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on May 14, 2020, 10:12:30 AM
Places of business in the U.S. are private property as well, and generally have the right to refuse entry or service to anyone.  However, the private owner of a "public place of accommodation" is governed by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990.  These set forth certain traits for individuals on which basis service may not be denied -- race, color, religion, national origin, and disability.  However, members of these classes may be denied service on other grounds that are otherwise equally applied.  A private business owner is entirely within his rights to refuse entry to people who do not wear masks, as long as that rule applies to everyone who seeks entrance.  Previous requirements, for example to wear shirts and shoes, did not pose any legal problem.  In fact, during the Halloween season some businesses disallow costume masks without incident.  A business can require you to wear one, or not to wear one, as their discretion demands.

Vocal and violent protesters in the U.S. who claim a right to enter private property without complying with its proprietor's requirements are idiots.  I don't know if their beliefs in non-existent rights is a universal "I can do whatever I want at any time," but they certainly seem to give that impression.  And it is on par with a certain American brand of individualism that earns Americans such a disdainful reputation abroad.  Here, of course, we have a sensationalist media and a childish President egging the protesters on.  And there was a tragic case recently where the door guard of a thrift store was shot and killed for refusing entry to people not wearing a mask.  That's a different American problem, but it explains in part why there are so many reports of this kind of exceptionalism.

While individualism is a broad American trait, most Americans will not carry it to the comical extent you see emphasized in the media.  As Zakalwe notes, the extremists rarely have a coherent point.  The reasons given for having a small private arsenal don't seem to extent to taking basic precautions.  And the "only cowards wear masks" argument doesn't jive with their apparently fearful need to arm themselves for every occasion.  (Brandishing firearms as you see these nuts do is about intimidation, not "protection.")  Most Americans are courteous and responsible, but the fanatics are the ones who attract the attention and set the tone by which their more reasonable peers are judged.  The objection to wearing a mask is not the inconvenience or discomfort of it, or the imagined right to patronize businesses while disregarding the rights of their owners.  They object to doing something simply because they've been told to do it.  As I said previously, our happy little valley is home to some notorious wintertime pollution.  During the worst of it, some people commonly wear filtration masks.  They do it voluntarily.  But now because it's a requirement imposed by government authority or other citizens, we have mask-shaming.  And that leads to a somewhat darker side of the story.  Wearing masks in public is "what the Chinese do," and the ongoing conspiracy theory requires blaming China for this mess.  Not wearing masks while the Chinese have to is one of the ways the fanatic fringe tries to show its defiance in the face of the designated enemy.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Jason Thompson on May 14, 2020, 11:25:44 AM
Places of business in the U.S. are private property as well, and generally have the right to refuse entry or service to anyone.  However, the private owner of a "public place of accommodation" is governed by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990.  These set forth certain traits for individuals on which basis service may not be denied -- race, color, religion, national origin, and disability.  However, members of these classes may be denied service on other grounds that are otherwise equally applied.

Yes, here we have the Equalities Act 2010 which serves the same purpose. When I said the owner reserves the right to refuse service or entry for any reason, I should have qualified it by saying those reasons have to be valid and not contravene the Equalities Act 2010. You can't deny entry on the basis of race, disability etc, but you can deny entry to soeone with those protected characterisitics if they're being a dick, or inappropriately dressed, or any other reason that would get someone else refused entry as well.

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Vocal and violent protesters in the U.S. who claim a right to enter private property without complying with its proprietor's requirements are idiots.

OK, that's what I thought.

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While individualism is a broad American trait, most Americans will not carry it to the comical extent you see emphasized in the media.

Oh yes, I fully appreciate that the majority are sensible and law-abiding. The media always presents a reversing mirror to any society, in that it emphasises the exceptional and sensational above the common and mundane.

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(Brandishing firearms as you see these nuts do is about intimidation, not "protection.")

As a Brit, the whole notion that you need a firearm for 'protection' seems mad to me. Whatever else you may say about our society, I have never felt sufficiently threatened here that I feel the need to carry a lethal weapon around or have one in the house.

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They object to doing something simply because they've been told to do it.

I just posted on Twitter that it seems to me this is more about the 'newness' of the restriction than anything else. We grow up with restrictions. Where we can smoke, having to wear a seatbelt, age limits on purchasing alcohol and pharmaceuticals, dress codes and so on, and we accept them as normal and sensible, just how life is. Then along come a new one and suddenly a small subset of society start whining about losing their freedoms, as if we're one sensible restriction away from a totalitarian state.

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Wearing masks in public is "what the Chinese do," and the ongoing conspiracy theory requires blaming China for this mess.

Yes, I have noticed that disturbing theme. And yet even that is an incoherent pile of nonsense, because even if China was responsible for the pandemic, the actions taken in any country affected are entirely that country's responsibility. Whatever China did or did not do, once the virus entered the US it was entirely within the power of the US Federal and State govenments, and its population, to control its spread. Blaming China for the current situation is like blaming the electricity company for the electrical fire in your house because they're the ones supplying the electricity, even though you did all that DIY re-wiring and skipped over basic stuff like grounding and insulation and not using flammable materials in certain areas.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on May 14, 2020, 03:52:39 PM
As a Brit, the whole notion that you need a firearm for 'protection' seems mad to me.

As I recall, the British and Americans did have a fairly strong disagreement on that issue at one point.  ;D

The social, legal, historical, and ethical discussion of the 2nd Amendment could fill volumes.  And it has.  I live not too far from places where having a firearm to defend yourself against dangerous animals is often considered prudent, although not always necessary.  And ranchers will generally always carry firearms in order to ward off predators.  The American frontier is still in many ways a frontier.  But obviously this is not the kind of protection spoken of by the sort of people you refer to.  Nor do people who have a more legitimate need for firearms generally behave in the stupid, braggartly way you often see depicted.

I myself have owned a few firearms.  I had a "Navy Six" revolver I built from a kit as a teenager.  I only ever used it for target shooting, and soon grew bored with it and sold it.  I would never consider it protection, because it certainly didn't help Gen. Custer very well in that duty.  And as a smoothbore pistol, it wasn't very adept at hitting targets either.  And then some target-shooting rifles, also as a teenager.  Not for protection, unless you consider paper targets especially menacing.  But I outgrew interest in them too.  I can shoot well, but I see no need for me to own a firearm.

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I just posted on Twitter that it seems to me this is more about the 'newness' of the restriction than anything else.

That's insightful.  I remember similar grumbling when wearing seat belts in cars became mandatory.

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Wearing masks in public is "what the Chinese do," and the ongoing conspiracy theory requires blaming China for this mess.

Indeed, it's starting to be quite a task to separate the pandemic discussion from the American politics discussion.  Even without the pandemic and its conspiracy theories, there was mild xenophobia.  You saw someone wearing a filtration mask and he looked vaguely of Asian descent, and you just wrote it off as their culture.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Jason Thompson on May 14, 2020, 04:47:58 PM
As a Brit, the whole notion that you need a firearm for 'protection' seems mad to me.

As I recall, the British and Americans did have a fairly strong disagreement on that issue at one point.  ;D

Yeah. You got your independence and look what you did with it! Loads of memes circulating around here about revoking your independence after Trump got elected.

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The social, legal, historical, and ethical discussion of the 2nd Amendment could fill volumes.  And it has.

Indeed, and I certainly don't propose to get into a debate about gun control issues.

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I live not too far from places where having a firearm to defend yourself against dangerous animals is often considered prudent, although not always necessary.  And ranchers will generally always carry firearms in order to ward off predators.  The American frontier is still in many ways a frontier.

Of course, and here we still have people using guns for legitimate purposes such as protection of livestock from predators and game hunting. No issues there. I'm referring to urban settings. Where I live the largest predator I'm likely to encounter is a fox, and I sure as hell don't need a firearm to see one off. The idea of needing a firearm for home defence just doesn't make sense to me. Part of that is probably because, since we do have strict gun control here, I am unlikely to ever need to defend myself against an assailant carrying a firearm.

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But obviously this is not the kind of protection spoken of by the sort of people you refer to.  Nor do people who have a more legitimate need for firearms generally behave in the stupid, braggartly way you often see depicted.

I certainly don't doubt it. I'm certain that the majority of firearm owners are responsible and follow sensible precautions. The media with its distorting mirror means of course that these people are not newsworthy, so all I hear about is the idiots waving their guns around at city hall, school shootings or accidentally shooting their family through carelessness.

Personally I have never fired a real firearm. I have held a few, mostly deactivated, and I can certainly appreciate them as a piece of engineering, but that's as far as it goes. Air guns are the most offensive weapon I have ever fired. And frankly I was pretty crap at it, so...

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I just posted on Twitter that it seems to me this is more about the 'newness' of the restriction than anything else.

That's insightful.  I remember similar grumbling when wearing seat belts in cars became mandatory.

When the smoking ban in public places was introduced there was uproar from a certain group of smokers who, like the anti-mask brigade now, couldn't grasp that it wasn't about them, and they weren't having their right to smoke taken away, just restricted for the health of others. As a lifelong non-smoker I was delighted by it.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on May 14, 2020, 05:24:46 PM
Yeah. You got your independence and look what you did with it! Loads of memes circulating around here about revoking your independence after Trump got elected.

So you know my avatar is me in a production of 1776.  One of the other actors in that play has now gone on to Broadway as a swing player in Hamilton.  He occasionally gets to play King George III.  That seems suddenly relevant.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 15, 2020, 11:51:26 AM
Where I live the largest predator I'm likely to encounter is a fox, and I sure as hell don't need a firearm to see one off.

Even in places where I've regularly seen coyotes, you don't need a gun to scare them off.  They're smart enough to know that you might have a gun, and they're not willing to take the risk.  Maybe it's different in true wilderness, but not in suburban LA County!

Yesterday, Irene had an appointment with her audiologist.  (She's fine; she's got a check-up in six months, and her ears now drain the way they're supposed to.)  We'd gotten a call some time ago telling us about the social distancing requirements they were using at the office.  You call up to the office to let them know you're there.  The waiting room is closed.  In fact, they took our temperatures and asked us basic health questions before letting us in.  And, yes, someone who had presumably gotten the same phone call as we did ignored all that, and also wasn't wearing a mask.  I'd even made sized-to-fit masks for the kids, though we couldn't keep Irene's on because it turns out three-year-olds aren't interested in public safety.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on May 15, 2020, 10:19:35 PM
A sad but interesting story about the effect of COVID-19 on a small town in (American) Georgia:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-16/coronavirus-second-wave-hits-rural-america/12251058

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At the time of writing, Cuthbert and the surrounding Randolph County (total population: 6,700) reported 169 confirmed cases and 21 deaths.

That may seem like a drop in the bucket in a country with 84,000 deaths and counting.

But the speed with which the virus took over the town meant that for a few days in April, Randolph County had the highest per capita death rate in America.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on May 15, 2020, 10:31:24 PM
This page shows interesting statistics about the virus's effect in various countries around the world:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-13/coronavirus-numbers-worldwide-data-tracking-charts/12107500?nw=0

Usefully, it's updated daily.

The chart that I notice particularly is a little over half way down, labelled Deaths by Population (Log scale). It shows two very distinct groups of countries - one group where early lockdowns appear to have worked, and another group where either lockdowns haven't been used or were imposed slowly or late or weren't effective.

Another one near the bottom shows that Autocrats aren't necessarily better at dealing with coronavirus.

One of the things that frustrates me about so many of the conspiracy theorists over at UM is that they see the effects of and responses to the virus solely through the eyes of the USA or the UK, as though it's having no impact anywhere else (apart from the evil commies in China). What this page shows is that, like so many things in the world, things are complex and not binary.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 16, 2020, 10:49:02 AM
One of the last big events of the season here has already been canceled.  Seriously, if you can afford to buy from a small artist/artisan, please do--they need the money.  My friend the potter didn't get any of the small business grants, presumably because that money was busy going to large publicly traded companies instead of a mother and daughter business. 
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on May 16, 2020, 01:14:30 PM
Our Governor recently downgraded our risk level to Low, allowing for more activity.  The only exemption is Salt Lake City, which is still at Medium.  Here's a helpful graphic.  This is a simplified view of the Salt Lake Valley (geologically) looking northward.

(https://static-sothebys-summitsir-production.gtsstatic.net/resources/v_4_19_0_70/siteresources/my%20folder/images/maps/salt-lake-valley-community-map.jpg)

The developed area is, politically, Salt Lake County.  My house is pretty much where the little red star is, but I have business interests, offices, and locations in that whole developed area (as well as outside the picture to the north and south).  As you can see, it's a heavily populated county, with lots of commerce throughout.  The city is just the cluster of buildings near the red star.  And that's the only place the Governor has allowed to remain at a higher level of quarantining and protection.  The Mayor of Salt Lake County requested exemption, but the Governor denied her.  There are places in the "county" that are almost as densely occupied on any given day as the downtown area.  And people come in and out of the city on a daily basis.  Now all those people in the county who are more likely to communicate infection amongst themselves due to relaxed restrictions, are more likely to bring it into the city.

I can understand the logic behind not having a statewide order.  There are parts of Utah were you could literally set off a nuclear bomb and no one would notice.  But the difference in policy between the cities and the counties of our most populous areas simply makes no sense.  If the leader of a populous county says, "No, we would like to continue taking precautions," and your Governor says, "No, we're not going to let you do that," you wonder what the Governor is thinking.  He is not running for re-election.  His Lt. Governor, a closeted Trump toady, is running for that party.  And I'm friends with the Democratic candidate and his lovely wife.  He admires me for my cocktail-making skills, so maybe I can score a political appointment as Secretary of Alcoholic Beverage Control.  (Yes, in Utah that's a cabinet-level position.)

Gillianren, I'm relieved that your friend tested negative.  So far only two of my friends have had COVID-19, and they contracted it in New York.  Luckily they are young and very fit (professional ballet dancers) so they recovered without requiring hospitalization.  Sadly one of our business patriarchs was not so lucky.  I didn't know him personally, except maybe for a handshake at one point.  But he was well respected and beloved.  He was in the category of age and health that made him particularly susceptible.  Two years ago I had one of the milder viral xARS illnesses.  It was the sickest I can remember ever being, including pneumonia.  I have absolutely no desire to endure COVID-19.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 17, 2020, 11:36:27 AM
This is the same friend who rates 10 on the pain scale as "the time my appendix burst," so I'm not sure how it would have rated on her scale--depends on the severity, I suppose.  But if she'd had a relatively mild case, I wonder if it would've only gone to reinforce our faire boss's conspiracism in that department.  He's of the "we should open the economy because we're grown-ups and can do all this without being told" strain, but the only reason he wears a mask around is that he knows what his daughter (who's in her 20s) would do to him if she found out he wasn't.  Naturally, he sees no contradiction there.  And he's immunocompromised and has bad lungs.  So.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Allan F on May 17, 2020, 11:43:16 AM
Perhaps a coping strategy? He might feel the "I'm invulnerable"-attitude gives him a emotional relief from the subconscious fear he must have.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 18, 2020, 11:14:41 AM
Well, yesterday, he posted something about how all these people were related by marriage that was really, really not true (you can't be married to Adam Schiff's sister if Adam Schiff doesn't have a sister!), and he used the word "triggered" to describe the reactions of the five or ten people who corrected him and asked him to fact-check before posting, so yeah.  He's a really talented artisan, and I will never stop promoting his work, but ye Gods, his politics.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on July 06, 2020, 11:51:34 PM
So you know my avatar is me in a production of 1776.  One of the other actors in that play has now gone on to Broadway as a swing player in Hamilton.  He occasionally gets to play King George III.  That seems suddenly relevant.

If you're lucky enough to be watching Hamilton on Disney+, the person I'm referring to plays Samuel Seabury, the Anglican bishop.  His bit is right before the first appearance of King George III.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: inconceivable on October 20, 2020, 09:28:56 PM
I've heard this 5G thingy also.  They claim the cruise boats started getting sick because of the satellite 5G beam technology.  The nursing homes and hospitals were ramping up 5G for their new wireless healthcare monitoring and places around hubs were first infections.  But it was some Chinese 5G that was banned.  Some frequency with beam technology which concentrated the signal right at the user for the duration of the call was suspected as older mobile systems used a tower triangulation method.  US is building their own safer 5G and many countries have banned Chinese 5G.  But all countries are racing to install this 5G for the monetary gain it will bring.
Some have theorized that MERS was a result of this beam technology originally to locate terrorist by tracking their phones and became more affective than sending drone missile.
The signal threat in the past was coined the invisible threat as in the case of the Moscow signal.
In the 60's and 70' they noted that astronauts returning from the moon had elevated viruses in their bodies.  Mostly reactivated chicken pox or shingles viruses and it was concluded that cosmic radiation reactivated dormant viruses.
  Today astronauts stay mostly beneath the Van Allen Belts to reduce exposure to this radiation and complications with reactivated viruses.  Space medication is catching up with this issue as astronauts to the space station take many vaccinations prior to their arrival but are still not exposed to the full range of frequencies needed to go beyond.
To actually go to Mars they will need to create many more vaccinations and subject many more.   Different frequencies will have to be tested to evaluate what viruses reactivate.  Global exposure to these frequencies and the viruses, the vaccinations discovered and medical knowledge learned is the fast tract to space travel. a8Glf


Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on October 21, 2020, 02:59:35 AM
Cool story, bro.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Allan F on October 21, 2020, 10:44:39 AM
What a load of b......

Evidence for those virus-claims, please.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on October 21, 2020, 01:05:15 PM
What a load of b......

Evidence for those virus-claims, please.

There's absolutely zero point in engaging. Inconceivable is the very definition of a seagull poster...he just flaps in every now and then, defecates and then flaps out again. You'd have to wonder at the thought processes that's going on when someone that hasn't posted in nearly two years suddenly gets the idea to wander over to Apollohoax.net and make a random nonsense post.
https://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=224

I sometimes wonder if the account is owned by an orphaned bot that still is running on a device somewhere out there on the Internet that was once part of a long-defunct botnet.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: molesworth on October 21, 2020, 02:21:34 PM
A simple response to this kind of eejitry is to note that many of the countries which have been most successful in dealing with the pandemic also have widespread 5G networks.  South Korea is a prime example with probably the most extensive network in the world, and New Zealand is continuing its 5G roll-out while the virus is almost completely under control.

I'd be more worried about the decline of piracy being the root cause of global warming...
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: jfb on October 22, 2020, 09:38:08 AM
I've heard this 5G thingy also.  They claim the cruise boats started getting sick because of the satellite 5G beam technology.  The nursing homes and hospitals were ramping up 5G for their new wireless healthcare monitoring and places around hubs were first infections.  But it was some Chinese 5G that was banned.  Some frequency with beam technology which concentrated the signal right at the user for the duration of the call was suspected as older mobile systems used a tower triangulation method.  US is building their own safer 5G and many countries have banned Chinese 5G.  But all countries are racing to install this 5G for the monetary gain it will bring.
Some have theorized that MERS was a result of this beam technology originally to locate terrorist by tracking their phones and became more affective than sending drone missile.
The signal threat in the past was coined the invisible threat as in the case of the Moscow signal.
In the 60's and 70' they noted that astronauts returning from the moon had elevated viruses in their bodies.  Mostly reactivated chicken pox or shingles viruses and it was concluded that cosmic radiation reactivated dormant viruses.
  Today astronauts stay mostly beneath the Van Allen Belts to reduce exposure to this radiation and complications with reactivated viruses.  Space medication is catching up with this issue as astronauts to the space station take many vaccinations prior to their arrival but are still not exposed to the full range of frequencies needed to go beyond.
To actually go to Mars they will need to create many more vaccinations and subject many more.   Different frequencies will have to be tested to evaluate what viruses reactivate.  Global exposure to these frequencies and the viruses, the vaccinations discovered and medical knowledge learned is the fast tract to space travel. a8Glf

This is a bot, right?  This feels like a bot, not an actual human being.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on November 09, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
Hi, everyone. Nice to see this community is still going. Remember the good old days when conspiracy theories about a science programme that quickly fizzled out was the height of absurdity? Is it a Chinese curse that says, "May you live in interesting times"?

Unfortunately, we have our own weirdos who are throwing their toys out of the prams about masks. I mean I don't like wearing them either. Tesco used to be nice with the queuing and the one way system. I liked that. But really, some people are such man-babies. And also women-babies. A few of them too.

Good news is that the anti-vaxxers seem to be on the back foot this time. Too many people feel the need for this one, unlike other vaccines where their success has made people forget what horrors they prevent.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Jason Thompson on November 10, 2020, 07:22:20 AM
Hi Glom, long time no see.

I find the attitude to masks baffling. I can understand protesting lockdowns. We've been told to stay home, threatened with fines for breaking rules, unable to see loved ones, or even just go out for a drink with friends. Businesses are closing left, right and centre, people are losing their jobs, and the government is flip-flopping all over the place on policies and assistance while still having the gall to blame people for their own financial strife. Yes, there are some protesting these draconian measures, and the arguments about whether the damage being done is worth it are not straightforward.

But stick a small piece of cloth over your face when you go out? The people are up in arms! I mean, all this stuff going on, and this is what's getting people angry?
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on November 10, 2020, 08:19:36 AM
I think it was Isabel Oakshott who decried them as "muzzles". Like this was an act of subjugation by the government and not simply a health measure. Ironically, a lot of the reactionaries come from the "The war was jolly good fun" brigade, who would lose it if they had to actually suffer through the restrictions of that period.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on November 10, 2020, 03:37:28 PM
In Utah the resistance to wearing masks is mostly, "You can't tell me what to do!"  This is also referred to derogatorily as, "But muh freedums!"  In other words, a significant number of Utahns will not do something simply because one of the leaders they elected told them the should.

Utahns have no problem wrapping scarves around their faces in cold weather, to keep them warm.  They have no problem wearing filtration masks when our air quality gets very poor.  Of all people Utahns should have no practical objection.  It's pure stubbornness.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on November 11, 2020, 04:52:33 AM
I think it was Isabel Oakshott who decried them as "muzzles". Like this was an act of subjugation by the government and not simply a health measure. Ironically, a lot of the reactionaries come from the "The war was jolly good fun" brigade, who would lose it if they had to actually suffer through the restrictions of that period.

To be fair though, Oakshott is a fruitcake. Nuttier than squirrel poo.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on November 11, 2020, 03:53:49 PM
I think it was Isabel Oakshott who decried them as "muzzles". Like this was an act of subjugation by the government and not simply a health measure. Ironically, a lot of the reactionaries come from the "The war was jolly good fun" brigade, who would lose it if they had to actually suffer through the restrictions of that period.

To be fair though, Oakshott is a fruitcake. Nuttier than squirrel poo.

Oh for sure. And they're getting nuttier. Is there something in the water these days? Or is it climate change making everyone cuckoo?

Why so many nutters everywhere?

There are even people who think Calamity Ganon corrupting the Divine Beasts is a plot hole that Age of Calamity will fix. Crazy!
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on December 08, 2020, 07:03:13 PM

Britain’s first rollout of COVID vaccine included 90+ year old Margaret Keenan.


(https://i.imgur.com/4YfqVlY.jpg)
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on December 08, 2020, 07:18:54 PM
Bill's using a 90+ year old laptop.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: raven on December 08, 2020, 09:42:46 PM
Apparently he's found the Fountain of Youth though!  ;D
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Obviousman on December 08, 2020, 11:04:35 PM
You're not looking! IT'S A HOLOGRAMME, PEOPLE!

Look directly to the left of the "fake" Bill Gates. That's no camera the guys has; it's a mobile holographic projector! The whole thing is a set-up by Big Pharma in order to increase the demand for the so-called "vaccine".

Oh you poor sheeple!

(runs away and hides, grinning manically)
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on December 09, 2020, 10:56:15 AM
Apparently he's found the Fountain of Youth though!  ;D

Yeah, I saw him on The Daily Social Distancing Show recently, and he . . . does not look like that.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Northern Lurker on January 27, 2021, 11:27:28 AM
I was reading on Kids say the darnest things... and following exchange from April 2020 came to mind...

Therapist: How are you coping with the corona virus?
Me: I'm doing fine, I don't see anything negative in the virus.
Therapist:  Please explain.
Me: If I get quarantined, I get two weeks away from my job with full pay. If I get the virus, I'll be sick but away from my job with full pay. And if I happen to die, I'm permanently free of my job.
Therapist: You certainly are different than the rest of my patients...

Lurky
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on January 28, 2021, 10:58:12 AM
Yes--you're lucky enough to have sick leave.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Northern Lurker on January 30, 2021, 07:13:32 PM
Yes--you're lucky enough to have sick leave.
Yes, living in northern Europe has its perks.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on January 31, 2021, 04:39:55 AM
Yes--you're lucky enough to have sick leave.
Yes, living in northern Europe has its perks.

Living in a civilised country might be a better description...
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Northern Lurker on January 31, 2021, 07:52:06 AM
Yes--you're lucky enough to have sick leave.
Yes, living in northern Europe has its perks.

Living in a civilised country might be a better description...

That too :-\
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on February 03, 2021, 01:58:20 PM
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55920046  (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-55920046)

Crazy woman harasses hospitals. Look, it's a pandemic not a zombie apocalypse. There shouldn't be the groans of the dying in every corridor. That's what the Nightingales are for. Also, hospital numbers are coming down anyway.

But what's more important is that the website front page described her as a conspiracist. This means that Jay has made it mainstream (something never said about anyone from Utah ever).
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on February 03, 2021, 04:09:26 PM
I may have popularized its usage, but I certainly didn't coin the word.  I thought I had at the time I wrote the bulk of Clavius.org, in the early 2000s.  But since then I have seen it print sources that easily predate my usage.  It's just an "obvious" word, I guess -- a word you don't know for a fact has been used before, but employs the language properly to make the word self-defining.  Thanks for the shout-out, though.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on April 28, 2021, 08:39:15 AM
The UK has reached 50% vaccination. Also over 20% are double done too. Piers Corbyn is failing.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on April 28, 2021, 10:36:02 AM
I am double-vaccinated and will be good to go on Sunday.  Graham's had one and gets his second in three weeks--as has my best friend.  I have plans.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on April 28, 2021, 11:19:01 AM
I hit my two-weeks-past-second-dose tonight.  Looking forward to seeing some other double-vaccinated friends this weekend.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Allan F on April 28, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
Still waiting for mine - my agegroup is scheduled to be vaccinated last, unfortunately.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: LunarOrbit on April 28, 2021, 02:24:05 PM
I just got my first shot of AstraZeneca about an hour ago... so far so good. I'm probably going to have to wait 4 months for the second shot... because ignoring the manufacturer's recommendations is how we do things in Ontario.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on April 28, 2021, 02:43:57 PM
They're just starting to move into the low 40s in England. So probably still a couple of months for me.

Clearly the UK population is far too old.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on April 28, 2021, 02:52:13 PM
The big question is which one I'll get. So far it's been all about the Pfizer and the AZ. Moderna is now starting and a few others are on the way. Maybe it'll be J&J, which is single dose. That'll be good. I love being vaccinated, but that doesn't mean I like getting stabbed with a needle.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: LunarOrbit on April 28, 2021, 02:58:37 PM
I love being vaccinated, but that doesn't mean I like getting stabbed with a needle.

I went most of my life (as far back as I remember anyway) not getting any needles... but in the last 6 months or so I've had a flu shot, some blood tests and IVs for a minor surgery in February, and now this AstraZeneca shot. I have to say that the fear (which might be too strong of a word) I had of them was overblown because they are so sharp that they slide right through your skin without you even noticing them.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Obviousman on April 28, 2021, 04:58:55 PM
I got the AZ shot back in late March, and am waiting for the second dose in early June. Painless injection (the lady was very good!) and no side effects apart from a mildly sore arm at the injection site for a day. I am not sure if that is good or bad, as it could mean I am not mounting a sufficient immunoresponse. That being said, throughout my life I have never had any allergic reactions to medications, no side effects, nothing.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on April 29, 2021, 05:37:53 AM
The big question is which one I'll get. So far it's been all about the Pfizer and the AZ. Moderna is now starting and a few others are on the way. Maybe it'll be J&J, which is single dose. That'll be good. I love being vaccinated, but that doesn't mean I like getting stabbed with a needle.

Ya big baby!  :)

Needles 'R' Us for me. It's a rare month that I don't get a needle for something, thanks to Crohn's Disease. In fact I've just started a treatment which involves self-administering the drug by needle.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on April 29, 2021, 05:46:19 AM
Anyway, first vaccination for my wife and me next week. Don't know about timing for the second jab.

Here in Australia we're doing really well in terms of keeping COVID out of the country (I'd mention a crowd of 78,000 at a football game except that the wrong team won the game). But we've sort of dropped the ball when it comes to vaccinations. Hopefully things will start to ramp up in coming months.

My big concern is that so many people have been so complacent about the virus that it's been allowed to circulate widely enough to give dangerous mutations time to evolve. Is there still much skepticism about the reality of the virus around the place? Is information about what's happening in India being reported in the USA?
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: molesworth on April 29, 2021, 09:10:14 AM
They're just starting to move into the low 40s in England. So probably still a couple of months for me.

Clearly the UK population is far too old.
;D That'll be me and my friends taking all the available doses.  I've had both now, so looking forward to a return to something nearer normal!

I had a mild reaction to the first (Pfizer) shot, just general tiredness, but the second really hit me like I had the flu, with chills and sweats for nearly 24 hours  :o
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on April 29, 2021, 09:46:26 AM
Now serving 42 year olds.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on April 29, 2021, 01:08:26 PM
Is information about what's happening in India being reported in the USA?

I have to admit that I'm not following the news much of late, but I've definitely seen information about that.

Sunday, I am two-weeks-past, but my best friend will not be until another about five weeks.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: peter eldergill on April 29, 2021, 10:48:22 PM
A bit late to the party. I got my first Pfizer shot two weeks ago, also in Ontario like Lunar Orbit. My second shot isn't scheduled until August 4th or something. I'm hoping my family will be able to visit my Dad and my step family who live in Virginia in August. We go to Oak island (not the pirate island, that's Nova Scotia) in north Carolina. I hope the border will be open, my dad is 82 and I'd like to meet my step sister's baby daughter :)

Cheers

Peter

Edit: My reaction to the first shot was a sore shoulder the next day. It was only one day

Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on April 30, 2021, 10:03:31 AM
For me, and I'm given to understand for a lot of other people with chronic pain issues, any side effects were pretty well indistinguishable from normal.  I actually took a nap, which is unusual for me, but "I'm really tired and my joints hurt" is just . . . life.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: LunarOrbit on April 30, 2021, 10:38:51 AM
My second shot isn't scheduled until August 4th or something.

I'm hoping that as more doses become available they will decide the 4 month wait between shots isn't necessary.

Quote
I'm hoping my family will be able to visit my Dad and my step family who live in Virginia in August. We go to Oak island (not the pirate island, that's Nova Scotia) in north Carolina. I hope the border will be open, my dad is 82 and I'd like to meet my step sister's baby daughter :)

I hope you're able to do that. I guess it all depends on whether other people do their part and get vaccinated.

Quote
My reaction to the first shot was a sore shoulder the next day. It was only one day

I felt like I had mild cold (slight fever, headache, sore neck and achy joints) yesterday (my second day), but I'm feeling fine now.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: grmcdorman on April 30, 2021, 07:06:35 PM
Also in Ontario. Got mine on the 7th, Pfizer, possibly some tiredness, definitely a slight sore arm for one day (mostly only noticed if I raised my arm). Currently scheduled for 2nd on July 28th.

My younger son, who lives with us and is in his twenties, may be able to schedule one next week as we're in a hot spot. Mind you, he (like I) is working from home, and both of us only go out for medical appointments. Most vulnerable in our household is my wife, who does the grocery shopping.

My company has said we can work from home, on a voluntary basis, through the end of the year. They're also actually hiring, but it's a software firm (backup/document management, primarily), so there's significant demand right now. CEO keeps saying "wear the masks".
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: NthBrick on May 02, 2021, 12:40:59 AM
The big question is which one I'll get. So far it's been all about the Pfizer and the AZ. Moderna is now starting and a few others are on the way. Maybe it'll be J&J, which is single dose. That'll be good. I love being vaccinated, but that doesn't mean I like getting stabbed with a needle.

Heh, I went with J&J for the same reason. Besides that though, one shot is less of a hassle than two.

Side effects of that one were pretty mild for me. It felt like coming down with "Flu-Lite" about 8 hours after the shot (chills, fever, aches, fatigue, etc.) and I spent most of the next day sleeping, though that probably is due in some measure to losing sleep the previous night. I did have a bit of an elevated heart rate for a few days afterwards, though that went away fairly quickly. Maybe related to the immune response?

Anyway, for a shot, I guess it was as close to a 10/10 experience as you can get.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 02, 2021, 12:46:56 PM
Almost everyone I know who's gotten it has gone for the shot that was being offered where they got it.  I'm not sure anyone I know went somewhere where they had a choice.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on May 08, 2021, 03:31:17 AM
My wife and I got the A-Z shot yesterday - less painful than many other needles I've had. But by the evening my wife was feeling nauseous, and she's feeling tired and nauseous today. I've got achey joints and muscles, and I'm feeling tired, which is much the same as I feel when I get a cold.

We got the shots through our GP, but we were told we could have got the Pfizer shot through the government-run clinics around the city. We didn't think it was worth changing, seeing as I'd already taken time off work to get the jab.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: molesworth on May 08, 2021, 04:05:45 AM
My wife and I got the A-Z shot yesterday - less painful than many other needles I've had. But by the evening my wife was feeling nauseous, and she's feeling tired and nauseous today. I've got achey joints and muscles, and I'm feeling tired, which is much the same as I feel when I get a cold.

We got the shots through our GP, but we were told we could have got the Pfizer shot through the government-run clinics around the city. We didn't think it was worth changing, seeing as I'd already taken time off work to get the jab.
From what I've read on various forums (as it seems to be a common discussion topic no matter the theme of the forum) it doesn't make a huge difference which "brand" you get, as side-effects are fairly common with both A-Z and Pfizer.  The only difference seems to be that they're worse on the first dose for A-Z and on the second with Pfizer - and there's not really much info, or people reporting about e.g. Moderna or J&J, but I'd expect they'll cause similar reactions.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on May 08, 2021, 11:00:40 AM
I got Moderna.  The first shot was a typical vaccine:  some injection-site pain that went away in a day or so.  The second produced fairly profound flu symptoms starting about 12 hours after the injection and lasting about 24 hours.  Not very pleasant.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: bknight on May 08, 2021, 07:48:35 PM
Both the wife and I recieved Pfizer.  Just sore arms with each one.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: raven on May 09, 2021, 12:42:25 AM
I should be able to get my appointment made for my first jab some time next week. Unsure when the appointment will be, but I hope sooner than later. It will be two years since I've seen my boyfriend at the end of the month, and I miss him something crazy.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on May 09, 2021, 03:03:43 AM
Second Pfizer due on Tuesday 11th May.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 18, 2021, 10:19:15 AM
BAUT holds to the belief that we should be able to discuss the pandemic without politics entering into the discussion.  There are some very simple issues at hand with anti-maskers and why the CDC decision was a bad one, but we can't have the conversation there.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on May 18, 2021, 03:23:04 PM
With the surge vaxxing in Bolton, I bet it delays me getting mine. They probably think, now that the oldies are done, it's best to prioritise by hotspot. The South-West ain't a hotspot do back of the queue probably.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Obviousman on May 18, 2021, 04:48:48 PM
BAUT holds to the belief that we should be able to discuss the pandemic without politics entering into the discussion.  There are some very simple issues at hand with anti-maskers and why the CDC decision was a bad one, but we can't have the conversation there.

What decision is this?
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on May 19, 2021, 07:17:50 AM
BAUT holds to the belief that we should be able to discuss the pandemic without politics entering into the discussion.  There are some very simple issues at hand with anti-maskers and why the CDC decision was a bad one, but we can't have the conversation there.

What decision is this?

I assume it's the new guideline that fully vaccinated people can ditch the mask.

I can see both sides of the argument, but there's also an interesting article here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-19/americans-not-ready-to-give-up-covid-masks/100148084 (comment by First Lady Jill Biden made me chuckle, as did the media performance of NY Mayor Bill de Blasio).
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on May 19, 2021, 09:53:01 AM
With the surge vaxxing in Bolton, I bet it delays me getting mine. They probably think, now that the oldies are done, it's best to prioritise by hotspot. The South-West ain't a hotspot do back of the queue probably.

The lesson is to always make such comments to provoke the universe to embarrass you. Just got my text.

I will admit in my excitement following the link without checking. Fortunately the link was legit.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 19, 2021, 10:26:41 AM
I assume it's the new guideline that fully vaccinated people can ditch the mask.

I can see both sides of the argument, but there's also an interesting article here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-19/americans-not-ready-to-give-up-covid-masks/100148084 (comment by First Lady Jill Biden made me chuckle, as did the media performance of NY Mayor Bill de Blasio).

That's the one.

Look, anti-maskers are just going to lie.  We haven't gotten a full six weeks since the date everyone became eligible for the shot.  My best friend just got her second shot last night, and my partner's due to get his Friday.  Which means our households weren't even clear to go maskless around one another yet, even leaving aside the fact that I have two children in my household who are too young to get the shot.  (They are both looking forward to it, which tells you how bad the last year and change has been!)  There is no mechanism for proving that you're vaccinated; we're just going to trust everyone, and some people have proved we shouldn't do that.  And it is very much influenced by politics.  Every poll shows that Republicans are less likely to get vaccinated than Democrats, and we should be able to talk about why that's so.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: grmcdorman on May 21, 2021, 07:54:52 AM
There are three things that I find interesting about the reaction in the US and Canada (where I live):
* The hyper/political polarization of it in the US. Not only does the attitude fall right on the Republican/Democrat divide, if you rank states by percentage vaccinated, it's pretty much identical to sorting from Democrat to Republican support (with strong Republican states being at miserable rates, something like 30% at the low end).
* Canada, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have that political divide. Alberta, the Canadian equivalent of the US conservative strongholds, did have some opposition at the start of the year, but seems to have come around.
* Overall, the percentage of Canadians who won't get it is remarkably low, apparently around 14%.

Demand for vaccinations in Canada continues to outstrip supply, whereas in the US many areas are starting to have trouble maintaining their rate.

As for why Republicans don't trust it, I think it boils down to the message that the Republican pundits have been pushing for many years: a distrust of science. Tucker Carlson, in particular, continues to spew lies (implying, for example, that the vaccinations are killing people) on Fox with little to no pushback from the Republicans; see https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jesse-kline-no-tucker-carlson-vaccines-arent-killing-people-by-the-thousands
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 21, 2021, 10:31:22 AM
Yup, but we can't have that conversation on BAUT, because the official stance of the leadership there is that there's nothing about the pandemic response that should require talking about politics.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on May 21, 2021, 10:34:55 AM
What amuses me about all this is that work colleagues occasionally quiz me about how I'm feeling after the vaccination, as though I'm their canary in the coalmine to determine whether they'll get vaccinated.

What baffles me is the way some people (not people where I work, I should emphasise) seem to be more scared of a 1 in 100,000 chance of getting likely non-fatal blood clots from the vaccine, than of a 1 in 100 chance of actually dying from COVID-19. I mean, my kids understood what I was getting at when we discussed it at dinner tonight, and the oldest of them is 13.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on May 22, 2021, 12:14:28 PM
Yup, but we can't have that conversation on BAUT, because the official stance of the leadership there is that there's nothing about the pandemic response that should require talking about politics.

And absurd leadership policy like this is why I no longer read or contribute to BAUT.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on May 24, 2021, 09:59:45 AM
My sister put this in family group chat.
Quote
Well, [JayUtah's brother-iin-law] got his 2nd dose yesterday. We had an eventful night. He passed out about 3 times, hitting his face on the counter; then leg muscle spasms and chills for about 30 minutes; then nausea. No sore arm, though.
So far that's the most severe reaction in our family.  He's a lieutenant in the Utah National Guard, so what conspiracy theory should I be applying?
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 24, 2021, 10:37:58 AM
Meanwhile Graham is going to work today, the day after his, because he's feeling fine.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: molesworth on May 24, 2021, 11:39:55 AM
My sister put this in family group chat.
Quote
Well, [JayUtah's brother-iin-law] got his 2nd dose yesterday. We had an eventful night. He passed out about 3 times, hitting his face on the counter; then leg muscle spasms and chills for about 30 minutes; then nausea. No sore arm, though.
So far that's the most severe reaction in our family.  He's a lieutenant in the Utah National Guard, so what conspiracy theory should I be applying?

Bill Gates is about to take over the US and is disabling all the National Guard troops as a first step :D

Seriously though, that's the worst reaction I've heard about, either via chats or in the media.  At worst, it mostly seems to hit like the flu so I think it might be worth him getting a check up in case there's something worse going on.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on May 27, 2021, 02:55:55 AM
What amuses me about all this is that work colleagues occasionally quiz me about how I'm feeling after the vaccination, as though I'm their canary in the coalmine to determine whether they'll get vaccinated.

What baffles me is the way some people (not people where I work, I should emphasise) seem to be more scared of a 1 in 100,000 chance of getting likely non-fatal blood clots from the vaccine, than of a 1 in 100 chance of actually dying from COVID-19. I mean, my kids understood what I was getting at when we discussed it at dinner tonight, and the oldest of them is 13.

*sigh*

I spoke too soon. Someone working at a desk near me said a couple of days ago that they weren't getting vaccinated any time soon "because what the doctors are telling us keeps changing", plus they're worried about blood clots.

On the other hand, the latest surge in cases in Melbourne, plus a 7-day lock down, has apparently led to a surge of people seeking vaccinations there.

I suppose our success in Australia in keeping case numbers right down has allowed people the chance to be complacent about vaccinations...
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on May 28, 2021, 02:37:06 AM
My arm hurts.

It was quite a slick operation. With all the bunting up, the place looked like some kind of spectacle or maybe even an attraction at Epcot.

Pfabulous.

I just hope this latest surge burns out soon once it encounters more heavily vaxxed areas.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on May 28, 2021, 10:20:13 AM
I talked to my Ren faire boss about the whole thing yesterday and about whether I think our big August event is going to happen.  If it does, I'm not sure I'm going to go.  I'm definitely not taking the kids.  It'll break Zane's heart, but better that than having him catch it just before he can be vaccinated.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on May 29, 2021, 06:35:08 PM
Hbomberguy has done quite the magnum opus on anti-vaxx.

https://youtu.be/8BIcAZxFfrc

Didn't even have to get into the point that people on the spectrum aren't lepers.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: LionKing on June 21, 2021, 04:39:55 PM
Did first shot of Astrazeneca and had side effects. Mysciatic pain flared too much I couldn' t sleep at night and Panadol did not work for me. Second day was better, but still there was some pain, so I sweated it out in the afternoon and woke up healthy.
Still all this is better than having covid and exposing myself to possible death
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Obviousman on June 21, 2021, 05:07:38 PM
I didn't have any effects with my first (maybe tender at the injection site for a few hours?), and nothing with the second.

Turns out my eldest sister had her shots the same time - same result (or lack of results).

Next youngest sister had her first weeks ago, and is awaiting her second shot in a couple of weeks time. Same thing - no reaction at all.

These were all AZ.

The youngest sister doesn't want to get vaccinated....
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: nikolai on June 21, 2021, 06:54:20 PM
I had Moderna.

The side effects were somewhere between extremely mild and non-existent.

Very slight, barely noticeable arm soreness.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on June 22, 2021, 09:43:34 AM
All of my parent friends spend their time talking about when the kids can get vaccinated.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Northern Lurker on June 22, 2021, 12:03:49 PM
My first shot was AstraZeneca and it caused some pain and soreness in shoulder area. I get similar effects from flu shots but this time the pain was harder and lasted longer. My second shot was in last week, Pfizer-BioNTech. No effects at all.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: nikolai on June 22, 2021, 05:08:02 PM
My first shot was AstraZeneca and it caused some pain and soreness in shoulder area. I get similar effects from flu shots but this time the pain was harder and lasted longer. My second shot was in last week, Pfizer-BioNTech. No effects at all.

I didn't know you could mix and match like that.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on June 23, 2021, 04:09:02 AM
My first shot was AstraZeneca and it caused some pain and soreness in shoulder area. I get similar effects from flu shots but this time the pain was harder and lasted longer. My second shot was in last week, Pfizer-BioNTech. No effects at all.

I didn't know you could mix and match like that.

The health authorities here in Australia are strongly recommending against mixing vaccines.

Just last week they recommended against Astra-Zeneca for over 50s, unless you've already had a first dose of A-Z. As that's the boat I'm in, I'm sitting back to wait for the second A-Z dose. But apparently there are a lot of over-50s who've been given A-Z first up who are now seeking Pfizer for their second dose, and the government is trying to stop that.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: grmcdorman on June 23, 2021, 07:44:41 AM
Canada is mixing some (as official policy), notably those who had AZ for the first have been told they can receive Pfizer or Moderna as the second. There's some (weak) evidence that this actually provides better protection.

There's also a supply issue, right now Pfizer is in short supply (in Ontario at least if not Canada as a whole), so people getting their second dose are, apparently, more likely to receive Moderna even if they had Pfizer as the first shot.

EDIT: More on mixing in Canada, from CBC: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pfizer-moderna-mixing-vaccines-covid-19-canada-1.6075765
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Northern Lurker on June 23, 2021, 12:30:17 PM
My first shot was AstraZeneca and it caused some pain and soreness in shoulder area. I get similar effects from flu shots but this time the pain was harder and lasted longer. My second shot was in last week, Pfizer-BioNTech. No effects at all.

I didn't know you could mix and match like that.

My first shot was on Thursday. Next Monday Finland suspended AstraZeneca vaccinations citing the blood clot risk. Later AstaZeneca vaccinations were restarted on people over 65. Since I'm in my forties, mix and match was the only option.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on June 29, 2021, 12:11:17 AM
Thirty people attended an event in a restaurant in Sydney last week. Twenty-four of them contracted COVID-19, none of whom were vaccinated. Six people didn't contract COVID-19, all of whom were vaccinated.

It says something about vaccinations, doesn't it.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: JayUtah on June 29, 2021, 01:12:44 PM
There's also a supply issue, right now Pfizer is in short supply (in Ontario at least if not Canada as a whole), so people getting their second dose are, apparently, more likely to receive Moderna even if they had Pfizer as the first shot.

Media in the U.S. are reporting that mixing vaccines has been show to be safe and effective.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: nikolai on June 30, 2021, 06:30:44 AM
There's also a supply issue, right now Pfizer is in short supply (in Ontario at least if not Canada as a whole), so people getting their second dose are, apparently, more likely to receive Moderna even if they had Pfizer as the first shot.

Media in the U.S. are reporting that mixing vaccines has been show to be safe and effective.

Where I am, I had to set up an appointment at some website when I became eligible.  There was a choice among many clinics, but they didn't specify which had Pfizer and which had Moderna.

However, one was supposed to set up both appointments at the same time, and for some clinics, the timing was three weeks apart (must be Pfizer) and for others, it was four weeks apart (so Moderna).

I signed up for Moderna, as it was available first.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: grmcdorman on June 30, 2021, 07:41:04 AM
There's also a supply issue, right now Pfizer is in short supply (in Ontario at least if not Canada as a whole), so people getting their second dose are, apparently, more likely to receive Moderna even if they had Pfizer as the first shot.

Media in the U.S. are reporting that mixing vaccines has been show to be safe and effective.
My adult son got his 2nd this past Friday - turned out to be Moderna (his first was Pfizer). Interestingly, he's the only one of the three of us to get sick from it - chills, tiredness for a day or two, nothing major.

My sister is due for her 2nd today (Wednesday); given that Ontario (and I, believe Canada as a whole) now has restricted supplies of Pfizer, it's likely she'll get Moderna too. Different clinic location, though; we'll see.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on July 02, 2021, 03:20:23 PM
There's also a supply issue, right now Pfizer is in short supply (in Ontario at least if not Canada as a whole), so people getting their second dose are, apparently, more likely to receive Moderna even if they had Pfizer as the first shot.

Media in the U.S. are reporting that mixing vaccines has been show to be safe and effective.

Yes. Reports now AZ+something else better against delta than AZ+AZ.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: LunarOrbit on July 04, 2021, 11:02:13 AM
I got my second shot on Monday. First shot was AstraZeneca, second was Moderna. I felt like I had a minor cold after the first shot, but the second kicked my butt... I had sore muscles and joints, a fever, and a headache the next day. Totally worth it though.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: bknight on July 04, 2021, 11:17:18 AM
I wonder what the booster will do to us physically.  We suffered only minor symptoms from Pfizer 1 and 2.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Obviousman on July 04, 2021, 04:19:36 PM
Ditto AZ 1 & 2.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on July 05, 2021, 11:53:45 AM
I wonder what can be done to persuade more people to get the shot.  One of our counties--unsurprisingly to me in the southeast corner of the state--is at less than 25% fully vaccinated.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Obviousman on July 05, 2021, 04:31:05 PM
At time of posting, in Australia, only about 9% are fully vaccinated. And this amazes me: amongst the 70+ age group nationally, who are at most at risk, only 16.6% are fully vaccinated!
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: molesworth on July 05, 2021, 04:52:02 PM
At time of posting, in Australia, only about 9% are fully vaccinated. And this amazes me: amongst the 70+ age group nationally, who are at most at risk, only 16.6% are fully vaccinated!
Perhaps it's because Australia has done so well in controlling the spread of infections that a lot of people don't think there's as much risk.  People will likely think that if the measures so far have kept everyone reasonably safe, then vaccination is just an extra add-on which they can get round to as and when.

Although I have to say just about all my friends and rellies in Oz have had theirs.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on July 05, 2021, 08:21:42 PM
At time of posting, in Australia, only about 9% are fully vaccinated. And this amazes me: amongst the 70+ age group nationally, who are at most at risk, only 16.6% are fully vaccinated!
Perhaps it's because Australia has done so well in controlling the spread of infections that a lot of people don't think there's as much risk.  People will likely think that if the measures so far have kept everyone reasonably safe, then vaccination is just an extra add-on which they can get round to as and when.

Although I have to say just about all my friends and rellies in Oz have had theirs.

Partly that, but more because supply of vaccines has been pretty low. And on top of that, most of the available vaccine supply has been AZ which is now not recommended for under-40s.

As one state Chief Health Officer said, she didn't want an 18-year-old to die from blood clots caused by the vaccine who'd be less likely to die if they caught COVID. (Still, I'm not sure I accept the logic - there's more to consider than the relative likelihood of dying from COVID or the vaccine, such as how likely that person is to infect others if they're vaccinated or unvaccinated.)
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: nikolai on July 06, 2021, 08:24:45 AM
As one state Chief Health Officer said, she didn't want an 18-year-old to die from blood clots caused by the vaccine who'd be less likely to die if they caught COVID. (Still, I'm not sure I accept the logic - there's more to consider than the relative likelihood of dying from COVID or the vaccine, such as how likely that person is to infect others if they're vaccinated or unvaccinated.)

I think there are some other issues there as well.

The reason Australia has kept the case numbers low, is because they have imposed serious restrictions on travel, and have quarantines when there is an outbreak.

So are they going to keep doing this, forever?

Are they going to wait until the rest of the world gets things under control (largely using vaccination), and then open up?  Well unless the rest of the world eradicates the virus (unlikely), then it will eventually get back to Australia and its largely unvaccinated population, and it's back to the beginning.

I see a few options here.

a) Live under serious restrictions, forever.

b) Let the virus rip through the largely unvaccinated population, and who gets sick gets sick, and who dies dies.

c) Get the needles out and start vaccinating.  Well I know they've already been vaccinating, but vaccinate more.

Are there other options?
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on July 06, 2021, 11:33:05 AM
As one state Chief Health Officer said, she didn't want an 18-year-old to die from blood clots caused by the vaccine who'd be less likely to die if they caught COVID. (Still, I'm not sure I accept the logic - there's more to consider than the relative likelihood of dying from COVID or the vaccine, such as how likely that person is to infect others if they're vaccinated or unvaccinated.)

Not to mention that the effects of "long COVID" appear to be pretty nasty.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on July 07, 2021, 05:45:59 AM
Good old deep South Republican states....

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/hospital-ceo-tells-vaccine-disparagers-to-shut-up-as-delta-slams-missouri/

No cure for stupid.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on July 07, 2021, 10:52:44 AM
The courts at least seem pretty clear that your employer does indeed have the right to force you to get vaccinated.  Thank goodness.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on July 07, 2021, 11:01:12 AM
Good old deep South Republican states....

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/hospital-ceo-tells-vaccine-disparagers-to-shut-up-as-delta-slams-missouri/

No cure for stupid.

Reading the comments to the article introduced me to Rep. Boeberts's solution for dealing with the Delta variant. Innovative perhaps, but deeply unpatriotic: it didn't involve singing the national anthem and saluting the flag.  ::)
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on July 08, 2021, 03:18:06 AM
Good old deep South Republican states....

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/hospital-ceo-tells-vaccine-disparagers-to-shut-up-as-delta-slams-missouri/

No cure for stupid.

Reading the comments to the article introduced me to Rep. Boeberts's solution for dealing with the Delta variant. Innovative perhaps, but deeply unpatriotic: it didn't involve singing the national anthem and saluting the flag.  ::)

The Republican party seems to have gone full death-cult. And yet people will vote for them, no matter what they do.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: nikolai on July 08, 2021, 12:39:28 PM
The Republican party seems to have gone full death-cult.

I am not sure in what sense you mean this.  If you mean in the sense that the party is taking actions that will lead to its own extinction, well, maybe.  But . . .

And yet people will vote for them, no matter what they do.

I'm not sure I'm onboard with that one.  No matter what they do, they will get some votes, but they will be from different people, depending on what they do.  At present, there is a Democrat in the White House, and Democrats control both the congress and the senate, so if there are people who vote for Republicans no matter what they do, there aren't enough of them to keep the Republicans in power.

A moderate Republican tends to do reasonably well in general elections, but a hard-right Republican tends to beat the moderate Republican in primary elections.  Ask any Republican in congress, of whom they're afraid - their answer may well not be the democrats.  It is often that, if they are deemed insufficiently conservative, they will face a primary challenge from someone claiming to be a "true" Republican, instead of the Democrat in disguise, or the "RINO", or whatever derogatory term they are using for insufficiently "conservative" Republican candidates.

At the presidential level, here are the people who have run since 1980:

1980 - Ronald Reagan - won
1984 - Ronald Reagan - won
1988 - George H Bush - won
1992 - George H Bush - lost
1996 - Bob Dole - lost
2000 - George W Bush - won (although lost popular vote by relatively narrow margin)
2004 - George W Bush - won
2008 - John McCain - lost
2012 - Mitt Romney - lost
2016 - Donald Trump - won (although lost popular vote by relatively larger margin)
2020 - Donald Trump - lost

So let's look at the Republicans who lost - George H Bush (in 1992), Bob Dole, John McCain, Mitt Romney, Donald Trump (in 2020).

If you ask me, apart from Donald Trump in 2020, that's the list of the more moderate Republican candidates.  (You could make a case for Reagan being "moderate" by today's standards, although he would have been considered pretty conservative in the 1980s.)

How about those who won - Reagan (twice), George H Bush (in 1988), George W Bush (twice), Donald Trump (in 2016).  The only one who wasn't "hard-right" by the standards of the time was George H Bush.

So, if you look at hard-right and moderate Republican presidential candidates, there's a pretty strong correlation (when you classify them the way I do) with winning and losing.  If you classify them as "hard-right" or "moderate" differently than I do, you might reach a different conclusion.

The senate tends to be more moderate than the congress, because a candidate has to appeal to the whole state rather than a single district (the exception being the small states, where the district is the entire state).  So there's a reason why you tend to see relatively more nut jobs (and not always Republican ones) in the congress than in the senate.  But the congress is where the big danger for Republicans is not the Democrats (most of the districts are gerrymandered to be relatively "safe" for one party or the other), but the within-party challenge from a more conservative Republican.  To take a hypothetical example, how would Arnold Schwarzenegger do if he ran for congress in Orange County?  The place was a Republican stronghold for decades, then Democrats did a clean sweep of the congressional seats in 2018.  If there is a Republican who can beat Democrats in California, Arnold Schwarzenegger just might be that Republican.  But can he beat more conservative Republicans in a primary election?  He won in all of California, but how about in Orange County?

So it seems there is a balancing act.  The more right-wing and wacko you are, the more likely the Republican base is to support you (not all of them, there are plenty of Republicans who hate the extremists - just not enough of them).  But the more wacko you are, the less likely you are to appeal to swing voters.  In congressional districts, the swing voters don't matter that much, because everything is gerrymandered.  But in presidential elections, my judgement is (and we are working off of pretty limited data, there is only one election every four years) that appealing to the wacko vote gains you more than it loses from the non-wacko centrist vote.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on July 09, 2021, 12:00:22 PM
Ted Cruz seems to do okay despite being a nut that no one, including his own children, likes.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: nikolai on July 10, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Ted Cruz seems to do okay despite being a nut that no one, including his own children, likes.

We'll see if he runs for reelection in 2024.  (Of course he might run for president instead.  I'm not sure whether he can run for both.)

He is in his second term, and while his initial election was quite comfortable, his reelection was 50.9% to 48.3%.  I don't know that he has a great deal of job security.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Jeff Raven on August 01, 2021, 10:29:22 PM
I see Matt Gaetz yesterday threw out more of his garbage about the virus and "Big Media's" lies, not to mention that he has the "Freedom Variant," and can't help but wonder/ be amazed about a number of things. First, how so many people buy into this stuff. (I know the psychology behind it - in spite of that it still makes me shake my head in disbelief) Second, how this isn't a violation of Congressional ethics regulations, as he is literally working to undermine the public's trust in the medical profession, including the government's various experts and offices/divisions. This is dangerous, and definitely more immediately dangerous than other conspiracies, such as flat-earth or moon-landing denial.  The latter two are dangerous, for sure, but their impact isn't in as short a time frame.

Of course, the irony is him saying that when Florida broke its record for daily cases, and today broke its record for most hospitalizations. 

Well, ironic and also sad. (as a statistic, not its impact or lack thereof on him)
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Glom on August 02, 2021, 05:02:41 AM
Ow.

They really pump it in. The discomfort comes not from the needle piercing but from the pushing of the fluid into the tissue.

I do feel great shame though that I completely forgot the card from the 1st one. They had to stamp a separate card. That does my OCD in.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on August 02, 2021, 11:30:43 AM
I'm deeply frustrated that it's being framed as a First Amendment issue.  The First Amendment doesn't prevent even the government from imposing consequences on dangerous speech.  You still can't use your speech to endanger lives.  A new poll apparently shows that 35% of unvaccinated people never wear a mask when leaving the house, as compared to 16% of vaccinated people.  Vaccinated people are also more concerned about the delta variant.  I'm about two minutes from unfriending a good friend from junior high because I simply cannot listen to her anti-vaxxing on this anymore.  She's generally pro-vaccine, and she insists that this one just hasn't been tested enough.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on August 02, 2021, 12:20:37 PM
As George Carlin so aptly put it: “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Obviousman on August 02, 2021, 04:50:26 PM
From Facebook:

Perhaps we should retire the phrase "avoid it like the plague" condsidering how poorly we have done at avoiding an actual plague.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: nikolai on August 05, 2021, 10:26:20 AM
As George Carlin so aptly put it: “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

Some of them don't even know the difference between a mean and a median.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on August 05, 2021, 11:32:56 AM
I unfriended my friend.  Apparently she doesn't care if she dies of it and can't be persuaded to care if someone else dies because of her.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on August 05, 2021, 03:15:03 PM
As George Carlin so aptly put it: “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

Some of them don't even know the difference between a mean and a median.


(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/f68VXKMZT1Q/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on August 12, 2021, 03:52:28 AM
Well, dang it, we've just gone into a seven day lockdown in Canberra. Our first locally acquired case in over a year.

Being the capital city, we have a lot of embassies and high commissions. As a consequence there's been a steady stream of diplomats entering the city from literally all over the world. And they've all done the right thing and quietly accepted two-week isolations on arrival. It's all worked so well that there hasn't been a case in the community since something like July last year.

But this case today is a mystery in that they don't know where he's acquired COVID from. That, and the fact that virus fragments have been found in sewerage, together mean there are probably other cases somewhere in the community.

So I'll be working from home for the next week, and the kids are home from school. The Education Directorate isn't even bothering to organise remote learning for the week, so it's almost as good as a holiday for them, except the limits on going outside.

And that's the only thing - this lockdown is noticeably tighter than the one we had at the start of the pandemic last year.

My main concern is whether I'll be able to work with the microscopic screen on the work laptop. If not, I'll have to see if I can link it to one of our TVs. Otherwise, as I pointed out at work this afternoon, I am fully vaccinated...
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on August 12, 2021, 10:25:39 AM
I'm fully vaccinated, but my best friend and I have agreed to only see one another masked and socially distanced through September.  Our Ren faire is happening this year, and she's going.  From what she's told me, I'm reasonably sure the people in charge fully expected it to be canceled and didn't plan all the way through.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on August 18, 2021, 11:38:52 AM
Greg Abbott's got it.  Can Ron Desantis be far behind?
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on August 19, 2021, 03:44:31 AM
Greg Abbott's got it.  Can Ron Desantis be far behind?

Yes, but I would guarantee that Abbott is fully vaccinated and will get the very best medical treatment that other people's money can buy. Meanwhile, in their day jobs, they will continue to pass laws and do their utmost to stop people masking up and to continue the catcalls about socialised medicine. The depressing thing is that their voter base will lap it up.
It seems like killing off their voter base is a retrograde step for the GOP, given that in red states COVID is rampaging. No cure for stupid, I guess.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/pandemic-of-unvaccinated-continues-to-rage-as-states-set-new-covid-records/
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on August 19, 2021, 10:17:19 AM
Apparently Arizona will be paying schools not to institute sensible precautions.  I'm sure thousands of dead children will be good for GOP support in the next election.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on August 20, 2021, 01:20:54 AM
But now for something a little different...and funny.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-20/meet-the-creator-of-canberra-covid-19-hero-ken-behrens/100393472

Quote
A week ago today, Mr Bowey had been assigned a mammoth task — captioning the ACT's COVID-19 press conference on the second day of the territory's lockdown.

Mr Bowey explained to ABC Radio Canberra that to do this, he used voice-to-text software to transcribe most of the words, before changing any typos and fixing up any grammatical problems.

But there was one word Mr Bowey did not catch in time.

"I will admit I've had trouble with the word 'Canberrans' before," he said.

So when the ACT's Chief Minister Andrew Barr took a moment to thank Canberrans for their hard work embracing the snap lockdown, the captions suggested that Mr Barr had thanked 'Ken Behrens'.

The other funny thing is that there is a real Ken Behrens - an American wildlife photographer living in Madagascar. And he couldn't understand why he was suddenly very popular with Australians...
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on August 20, 2021, 04:33:20 AM
Please welcome our next contender for dumb Republican state to the stage: Alabama.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/we-are-set-on-a-path-that-looks-disastrous-alabama-hospitals-near-collapse/?comments=1

Remember Kushner and Trump's plan to politicise COVID as they thought that it would damage Democratic states more? https://www.businessinsider.com/kushner-covid-19-plan-maybe-axed-for-political-reasons-report-2020-7?r=US&IR=T    How'd that work out for you guys?
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on August 20, 2021, 10:58:03 AM
Last I heard, Alabama was at negative eleven ICU beds--there were several hospitals around the state that were able to create a few more, but by and large, that's it.  They're out of spots.

My partner is angry at our state's new vaccination mandate for state employees--because it allows religious exemptions.  He understands medical exemptions, but he has no sympathy for anyone whose religion tells them not to get the shot.  Especially since the e-mail he got about it was from the school district informing us that the staff will be covered by the mandate, meaning there are people who will be working with our four- and eight-year-old who might not be vaccinated.  Our kids can't be, and we desperately want them to be.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Mag40 on August 23, 2021, 07:17:57 AM
So Jarrah White has just posted a video of him getting the vaccine and telling people not to be Covidiots. I applaud him for this. Interestingly though, he is now getting a taster of what it feels like to be bombarded by conspiracy theorists who are really giving him a hard time for selling out. Crazy plandemic/antivax people are telling him how foolish he is. Ahhh the irony here.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on August 23, 2021, 11:38:18 AM
I'm not clicking on the video to be sure, but I think a certain former President just got booed by a bunch of his own supporters for saying the same thing.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: nikolai on August 25, 2021, 12:02:11 AM
My partner is angry at our state's new vaccination mandate for state employees--because it allows religious exemptions.  He understands medical exemptions, but he has no sympathy for anyone whose religion tells them not to get the shot.

In a country not far from here, one of the Islamic groups declared one of the vaccines "haram", which normally means forbidden, because pork-based products are used in its manufacture.  However, it also stated that use of the vaccine is nonetheless permissible out of necessity, since there is no credible alternative.

If someone produces a vaccine that doesn't use pork-based products, but that also isn't as effective, I am not sure what they will decide.  (Maybe this has already happened?)

But the great thing about Islam is that, like Protestantism, there is no central authority, so if you don't like one group's decision, you can look for another group that decides differently.  I'm not sure if you're allowed to mix and match.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on August 25, 2021, 10:54:28 AM
Plenty of people mix and match their religious beliefs--look at American Catholics' beliefs about birth control, for example.

Meanwhile, my kids might have been exposed, but the people who might have exposed them have only told the kids, not us, and I'm not sure when they last saw the person who might be a confirmed case.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Peter B on August 25, 2021, 11:10:51 AM
My partner is angry at our state's new vaccination mandate for state employees--because it allows religious exemptions.  He understands medical exemptions, but he has no sympathy for anyone whose religion tells them not to get the shot.

In a country not far from here, one of the Islamic groups declared one of the vaccines "haram", which normally means forbidden, because pork-based products are used in its manufacture.  However, it also stated that use of the vaccine is nonetheless permissible out of necessity, since there is no credible alternative.

If someone produces a vaccine that doesn't use pork-based products, but that also isn't as effective, I am not sure what they will decide.  (Maybe this has already happened?)

But the great thing about Islam is that, like Protestantism, there is no central authority, so if you don't like one group's decision, you can look for another group that decides differently.  I'm not sure if you're allowed to mix and match.

With respect, I don't really see the similarity in the situations. Gillianren's partner is talking about the likelihood of people using religion as a cover for their anti-vax views, while you're talking about religious authorities making rulings very directly on the basis of their moral standards.

IMO the former are hypocritical and the latter are honourable (even if I disagree with them). Catholics have expressed similar reservations about vaccines which have ingredients which originated in cells from aborted foetuses. Articles I've read about Catholic moral objections to such 'tainted' vaccines suggest their views are similar to what you quote - take the 'tainted' vaccine because saving lives is still a moral good, but lobby for vaccines to be developed which don't include the tainted ingredient and thus reduce the moral harm.

However please correct me if you think I've misrepresented you.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: nikolai on August 25, 2021, 10:44:59 PM
However please correct me if you think I've misrepresented you.

You are not very explicit on what you think I said, and trying to guess what hidden meaning you are attributing to me and then stating whether it is accurate or not is not something I should have to do.

If you want to express your opinion about which religious groups hold honourable, salutary, or otherwise respectable positions on particular issues and which do not, then I wish you would do so without framing it as somehow in opposition to my opinion.  I have not expressed any value judgement whatsoever, positive or negative, on the positions of the religious groups referenced either by Gillianren or by myself.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on August 27, 2021, 04:33:49 AM
So now the FDA has to remind people that they are not horses or cows.
https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1429050070243192839

The same people screaming about not wanting a vaccine are happily poisoning themselves with cow medicines. I wonder what shape the Venn diagram that maps MAGA idiots, COVID anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers, anti-abortionists and evangelical nut-jobs would be? A perfect circle????
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on August 27, 2021, 10:50:02 AM
No, there are definitely liberal anti-vaxxers.  It's one of those things that is connecting the far left and the far right.  I have a now former friend who is definitely not a MAGA idiot, an anti-abortionist, or an evangelical nut-job.  But the very far left and the very far left both have segments that distrust vaccines because they're "unnatural."  One group comes at it from a God perspective, and one comes at it from a nature perspective, and they disagree about practically everything but vaccination.  Heck, this friend keeps whining that Bernie Sanders should've won five years ago.

Meanwhile, I've had it confirmed that the kids were not exposed.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: jfb on August 27, 2021, 02:19:45 PM
Yeah, the first round of anti-vaxxers were definitely not conservative Republicans - they're the ones into crystals, homeopathy, and other "non-traditional" forms of healing.  All forms of "western" medicine are bad, period, end of story. 

Instead of eating horse paste, they glue healing crystals to their steering wheel (https://www.reddit.com/r/DiWHY/comments/6td9tz/just_wait_until_the_airbag_pops_out/) to recharge while they drive, unwittingly turning it into a claymore if they ever get into a wreck. 

Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on August 27, 2021, 02:59:11 PM
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/texas-anti-mask-covid-caleb-wallace_n_61285af4e4b0f562f3dc5224?ri18n=true

Every time I hear of these knuckleheads I can't decide if I like karma or schadenfreude the most....
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on August 27, 2021, 03:15:26 PM
No, there are definitely liberal anti-vaxxers.  It's one of those things that is connecting the far left and the far right.  I have a now former friend who is definitely not a MAGA idiot, an anti-abortionist, or an evangelical nut-job.  But the very far left and the very far left both have segments that distrust vaccines because they're "unnatural."  One group comes at it from a God perspective, and one comes at it from a nature perspective, and they disagree about practically everything but vaccination.  Heck, this friend keeps whining that Bernie Sanders should've won five years ago.

Meanwhile, I've had it confirmed that the kids were not exposed.

Yeah, the first round of anti-vaxxers were definitely not conservative Republicans - they're the ones into crystals, homeopathy, and other "non-traditional" forms of healing.  All forms of "western" medicine are bad, period, end of story. 

Instead of eating horse paste, they glue healing crystals to their steering wheel (https://www.reddit.com/r/DiWHY/comments/6td9tz/just_wait_until_the_airbag_pops_out/) to recharge while they drive, unwittingly turning it into a claymore if they ever get into a wreck. 



I didn't say that there aren't other anti-vaxxers or that the MAGA idiots invented anti-vax. But some of the current loudest are also Trump supporting nutjobs. It's crank magnetism at work.

Its funny how the Freedumb lovers are so anti-mask as they don't want the government dictating what they do with their bodies and at the same time are also awfully keen on telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies, sexuality and reproduction.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on August 28, 2021, 11:04:51 AM
I didn't say that there aren't other anti-vaxxers or that the MAGA idiots invented anti-vax. But some of the current loudest are also Trump supporting nutjobs.

Yes, they are, but "the Venn diagram is a circle" literally means the overlap is complete, and we're merely pointing out that it isn't.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on August 28, 2021, 05:34:03 PM
I didn't say that there aren't other anti-vaxxers or that the MAGA idiots invented anti-vax. But some of the current loudest are also Trump supporting nutjobs.

Yes, they are, but "the Venn diagram is a circle" literally means the overlap is complete, and we're merely pointing out that it isn't.

Which is not what I said despite you putting it in quotes.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on August 29, 2021, 03:46:25 PM
Which is not what I said despite you putting it in quotes.

My apologies.  Here's what you said.  "I wonder what shape the Venn diagram that maps MAGA idiots, COVID anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers, anti-abortionists and evangelical nut-jobs would be? A perfect circle?"
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: raven on September 15, 2021, 09:27:20 PM
Oh, and don't forget alternative 'medicine' enthusiasts and anti-vaxxers in general.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: gillianren on October 18, 2021, 09:29:37 AM
Colin Powell's dead.  My immediate reaction to hearing his cause of death was, "They used that man up and then they killed him."
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Zakalwe on October 18, 2021, 02:03:32 PM
Colin Powell's dead.  My immediate reaction to hearing his cause of death was, "They used that man up and then they killed him."

He's got the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis on his hands. He knew exactly what he was doing when he lied and fabricated evidence to the UN.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Trebor on October 19, 2021, 04:50:00 AM
Colin Powell's dead.  My immediate reaction to hearing his cause of death was, "They used that man up and then they killed him."

He's got the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis on his hands. He knew exactly what he was doing when he lied and fabricated evidence to the UN.
...and Vietnamese.
Powell was in the unit that committed the Mỹ Lai massacre and helped cover it up.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: jfb on October 19, 2021, 11:12:23 AM
Colin Powell's dead.  My immediate reaction to hearing his cause of death was, "They used that man up and then they killed him."

He's got the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis on his hands. He knew exactly what he was doing when he lied and fabricated evidence to the UN.

Not to mention needlessly dead, maimed, and psychologically scarred American warfighters and the strengthening of the American police state. 

My Father-in-law was a Korea veteran, and one of his many1 pearls of wisdom was that All Generals Lie All The Time.  It's just part of the job description. 

I've seen stories that claim Powell regretted that speech to the UN, but regret doesn't pay the bills. 

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1. Along with "never talk to the police for any reason without a lawyer present" and "you can be friends with a thief, just don't ever let him hold your wallet."