Author Topic: Richard Branson  (Read 2836 times)

Offline jfb

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2021, 10:06:44 AM »
I will give Branson this - riding SS2 carries some real risk.  Between the whole "the human is the strong link in the chain" attitude towards design and operation, coupled with the fact that it's killed several people during development, it's not like getting on a 737 from Austin to Houston.  It may not be a high potential for mayhem, but it's not exactly low, either. 

I'd personally feel more confident riding NS. 

Offline Obviousman

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2021, 04:23:51 PM »
I will give Branson this - riding SS2 carries some real risk.  Between the whole "the human is the strong link in the chain" attitude towards design and operation, coupled with the fact that it's killed several people during development, it's not like getting on a 737 from Austin to Houston.  It may not be a high potential for mayhem, but it's not exactly low, either. 

I'd personally feel more confident riding NS. 

That's interesting. I agree that both carry risk but I am not sure I'd choose NS over SS2; what factors make you favour the former?

Offline Glom

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2021, 05:39:10 PM »
As a joy ride, SS2 is cooler because it draws out the experience. Having the whole thing over and done with in 10 minutes is a bit too to the point. For a once in a lifetime experience, dragging it out for a few hours is best.

Later on though, the joy equation may change.

Offline jfb

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2021, 08:43:43 AM »
I will give Branson this - riding SS2 carries some real risk.  Between the whole "the human is the strong link in the chain" attitude towards design and operation, coupled with the fact that it's killed several people during development, it's not like getting on a 737 from Austin to Houston.  It may not be a high potential for mayhem, but it's not exactly low, either. 

I'd personally feel more confident riding NS. 

That's interesting. I agree that both carry risk but I am not sure I'd choose NS over SS2; what factors make you favour the former?

Like I said, SS2’s design and operation make the human the strong link in the chain, which is bad juju in this flight regime.  There’s relatively little automation and by the accounts I’ve read the pilots have a huge workload.  They have to unlock the tail boom at exactly the right moment - after they reach Mach 1.1 but before they commit to the climb uphill.  The first vehicle was lost because a pilot unlocked the tail boom too early, killing one pilot and severely injuring the other.  I’m sure they’ve added some kind of interlock since then, but God only knows what other, similar nasty surprises are lurking.  All it takes is for one of the pilots to have a less-than-absolutely-perfect day and you’re looking at LOV/LOC.

NS may look like a giant flying penis, but it can fly fully automated, and it hasn’t killed anyone yet.

Offline Peter B

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2021, 10:25:47 AM »
New Glenn looks impressive.

Vapourware and CGI is easy.
BO are really struggling with developing the BE-4 and are already well behind plan. ULA are allegedly very pissed that BO has failed to deliver, but they are also protecting BO to an extent. Unless they move to another engine Vulcan will be delayed.

Fair enough. What, then, do you make of Bezos's offer of $2 billion to NASA to make them take on BO's lunar lander?

Offline jfb

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2021, 10:51:16 AM »
New Glenn looks impressive.

Vapourware and CGI is easy.
BO are really struggling with developing the BE-4 and are already well behind plan. ULA are allegedly very pissed that BO has failed to deliver, but they are also protecting BO to an extent. Unless they move to another engine Vulcan will be delayed.

Fair enough. What, then, do you make of Bezos's offer of $2 billion to NASA to make them take on BO's lunar lander?

I think Eric Berger sums it up pretty well:

Quote
The time to state how much skin you're willing to put into the game is during the bidding process, not after the winners have been named.


Offline apollo16uvc

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2021, 11:32:30 AM »
They can do whatever they want with their own money.

They just shouldn't get it into their heads that they are in the same league as /actual/ astronauts who do important work.

You can argue that the first flight or two of these kind are important and daring. But even then, the occupants don't do anything... they are just passengers.

Except the pilots of Virgin Galactic craft(s), they are the real heroes of those flights. Not the occupants.


Also, its just 3-4 minutes. Wooweee.


But if it inspires young people, I guess this is a good thing...
« Last Edit: July 27, 2021, 11:35:07 AM by apollo16uvc »
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Offline Glom

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2021, 03:11:16 AM »
Well there goes the neighbourhood. Remember when the riff raff knew their place and it was on Earth?

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2021, 03:14:56 AM »
Well there goes the neighbourhood. Remember when the riff raff knew their place and it was on Earth?

Inspiration4?
I do hope that your comment was tongue in cheek?
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Glom

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2021, 04:13:10 AM »
Well there goes the neighbourhood. Remember when the riff raff knew their place and it was on Earth?

Inspiration4?
I do hope that your comment was tongue in cheek?

Yep. See my essay on the previous page to understand my facetiousness.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2021, 08:00:17 AM »
Well there goes the neighbourhood. Remember when the riff raff knew their place and it was on Earth?

Inspiration4?
I do hope that your comment was tongue in cheek?

Yep. See my essay on the previous page to understand my facetiousness.

I was going to rip you a new one Glom. That was before I went back and read that essay. Much as I like many of Steve Shives' videos, I think he's dead wrong on that one.

IMO, the Inspiration 4 crew are well named. They were a damned fine crew with great objectives.

Jared Isaacman paid for the launch and mission (reportedly about US$200M), and on top of that, put up another US$100M to kick start a fundraising drive for St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital. As of September 20, the fundraiser had reached US$210 million including a $50M donation from Elon.

Isaacman took with him a customer of his business (Dr. Sian Proctor), a bone cancer survivor whose life as a child was saved by Doctors at St. Jude's and who now works there as a physician assistant with leukemia and lymphoma patients (Hayley Arceneaux), and an Aeropace engineer who had a childhood passion for rocketry (Chris Sembroski).

What's not to like about any of that?

For mine, this was is the first "true" civilian mission to space - they launched, they orbited for three days (about 40+ orbits) faced the challenges of re-entry and splashdown. These guys were the real thing 
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Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2021, 05:33:24 AM »
Well there goes the neighbourhood. Remember when the riff raff knew their place and it was on Earth?

Inspiration4?
I do hope that your comment was tongue in cheek?

Yep. See my essay on the previous page to understand my facetiousness.

Ahhh, gotcha.

The Inspiration4 flight was a masterpiece. Issacman is a mover and shaker....I'd love to know how he got Netflix to spend large on a multi-part series with those production values.  I believe that SpaceX are now considering making more Dragon capsules to meet demand for more tourism. However, the real mass interest will kick off when (not "if") they get Starship up and running. The possibility of 100 tourists at one time might even make it possible for a mere mortal to fly in space!

Regarding Branson's endeavours? I really, really, REALLY dislike that contraption that they are flying. It's killed people so far and they way that they are going about it I think that it will kill more people if they press ahead with trying to fly tourists. Rutan's design has no computers and is very much a "seat of the pants" design. It looks to be very difficult to fly and it relies on the pilots being the very best. however, any design that relies on [ur=https://www.space.com/30073-virgin-galactic-spaceshiptwo-crash-pilot-error.htmll]humans to make mission-critical decisions and to time those decisions within a second[/url] is inherently neither a safe or reliable system. hell, even the very earliest NASA manned missions were heavily automated. Bad things happen far too quickly when flying into space to allow humans to be the only piloting system.

The culture in VG also appears to be totally wrong. The sacking of Stucky, the decision-making of the pilots on Bransons flight all point to an enterprise run on autocracy. Again, hubris, "go-fever", and decision-making based on not displeasing the Boss all have no place in spacelight. Space is hard and mistakes are mercilessly punished. I hope that the FAA grounds the thing before others are killed.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2021, 05:16:18 PM »
The culture in VG also appears to be totally wrong. The sacking of Stucky, the decision-making of the pilots on Bransons flight all point to an enterprise run on autocracy. Again, hubris, "go-fever", and decision-making based on not displeasing the Boss all have no place in spaceflight. Space is hard and mistakes are mercilessly punished. I hope that the FAA grounds the thing before others are killed.

Indeed. It was in part, that kind of attitude and culture that got 14 NASA astronauts killed (the other part was "normalisation of deviance").

You would have to drag me kicking and screaming into that Virgin Galactic thing for a spaceflight, but you could strap me into a Dragon capsule in a heartbeat.
► What you can assert without evidence, I can dismiss without evidence
► When you argue with idiots you risk being dragged down to their level and beaten with experience.
► Conspiracism is a shortcut to the illusion of erudition

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2021, 03:42:42 AM »
The culture in VG also appears to be totally wrong. The sacking of Stucky, the decision-making of the pilots on Bransons flight all point to an enterprise run on autocracy. Again, hubris, "go-fever", and decision-making based on not displeasing the Boss all have no place in spaceflight. Space is hard and mistakes are mercilessly punished. I hope that the FAA grounds the thing before others are killed.

Indeed. It was in part, that kind of attitude and culture that got 14 NASA astronauts killed (the other part was "normalisation of deviance").

You would have to drag me kicking and screaming into that Virgin Galactic thing for a spaceflight, but you could strap me into a Dragon capsule in a heartbeat.

Absolutely agreed.
However, in my particular case, I seem to be somewhat short of the $100million+ needed for the ticket. I've looked down the back of the sofa and still am short.  :( >:(
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Glom

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Re: Richard Branson
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2021, 05:19:59 PM »
It is telling that of the three competitors under discussion, Branson, Musk and Bezos, only Branson is not developing capability to support ongoing progress like the other two. It is much more about thrill seeking. It kind of parallels the way the early Soviet efforts focused a bit too heavily on space stunts with the likes of Voskhod.