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Off Topic => General Discussion => Topic started by: LionKing on August 06, 2020, 09:28:01 AM

Title: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on August 06, 2020, 09:28:01 AM
You might have heard of the huge explosion that happened in Beirut..

I would need your skills in analyzing if this video of the missile is true or fake
thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZD80Ic2kDU&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3Gy_RC3GatovDRZ4q_-a38VOWJUYQirqyGz0cYjsl2TAiOQM84dDv042Y

Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: Peter B on August 06, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
Hi LionKing, yes, the explosion has certainly been in the news, thanks to the shocking video that people have recorded.

I hope you and your family are safe.

Personally, I don't think it was a missile that caused the explosion.

For one thing, some of the video of the explosion shows a series of small flashes of light in the seconds before the massive explosion. I understand that fireworks were being stored near the ammonium nitrate. So it makes sense to me that the original fire caused some of the fireworks to explode, causing those flashes, and also contributing to the main explosion.

Another thing is the locations where the two videos were recorded. This is something you might be able to help with - do you recognise the locations where the videos were recorded? Do you think you could point to them on a map of Beirut. The thing is that in both videos the path of the 'missile' is from upper left to lower right. That suggests the two videos must have been recorded in roughly the same direction from the point of the explosion (after all, to someone on the opposite side of the explosion the 'missile' would have travelled from upper right to lower left). So if the videos were actually recorded from locations in widely different directions from the explosion then the missile must have been inserted into the video.

Finally, none of the several videos I've seen show any indication of a missile. If it was really a missile, then at least some other videos must surely show it.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on August 06, 2020, 11:28:28 AM
Me and the family are good.. Thanks. The house trembled for two times like it would during an earthquake, but we are fine thanks God.

The story of fireworks is not sure. Some experts are saying it is ammunition that were set on fire first, then the ammonium nitrates blew.
I think many by now analyzed the video saying the missile is an addition..also like you said, itwould have appeared in other videos. It is huge tradgedy.

They at the port have been told it is dangerous .. they send letters to the judiciary system that tells them many times it is not the one to act,and they don't follow up and they do nothing. They should be put in prisons. I hope Macron visiting Lebanon today can get us an international tribunal for this.

I just want to know if it is the summer heat or some careless ironing they say was taking place there, or someone who threw a cigarette or what..
hopefully it will be cleared and culprits put to their responsibilities.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: smartcooky on August 06, 2020, 03:15:00 PM
You might have heard of the huge explosion that happened in Beirut..

I would need your skills in analyzing if this video of the missile is true or fake
thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZD80Ic2kDU&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3Gy_RC3GatovDRZ4q_-a38VOWJUYQirqyGz0cYjsl2TAiOQM84dDv042Y



One word... fake! The "missile" has been digitally inserted ine the video

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/beirut-explosion-cause-missile/
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: Northern Lurker on August 06, 2020, 05:36:30 PM
Good to hear you are ok!

Excellent find, Smartcooky!

Another thing against any missile attack theories: According to my understanding, Lebanon isn't a very large country. I'd guess both Syrian and Israeli air defense radars cover large swathes of your airspace. If it was a missile attack by the US or Israel, I'm sure Syria would happily publish their radar recordings to implicate their enemies. If it was a Syrian or Irani missile attack, I think Israel would do the same.

Lurky
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: smartcooky on August 07, 2020, 01:00:32 AM
Youtube has removed the video for violating terms of service. If this was, in particular, for spreading misinformation, then that is a really good thing.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on August 07, 2020, 04:30:10 AM
The media is also strong they would have exposed it and spoke about it all the time if it was true.
Meanwhile the corpses pile up and many are still missing. Thanks for countries who are sending help and who start to recognize that dealin with ngos is the right thing to do not the government who will steal the money.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on August 07, 2020, 09:45:37 AM
The governnent refuses tor eceive aids tell8ng countries we have enough of medical aids when 4 hospitals are out of service.this is all because these countries are not giving the aid directly to the state where it can steal them..
if we kill them some day those politicians, don't say we are barbaric
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: Count Zero on August 07, 2020, 10:06:55 AM
I want to add my gratitude that you and your family are OK, and pray that you continue to be.  I have known two Lebanese families for 40+ years.  One of them is OK, the other sustained some injuries from flying glass.  Their homes are now unlivable and they have relocated to vacation houses in the mountains.

Re: the earthquake - Sound in air moves 1 kilometer in ~3 seconds (shockwaves can move faster), but moves through the ground at more than 5 kilometers EACH second; so the ground-shock reached you many seconds before the air blast.

Stay safe!
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on August 07, 2020, 10:52:08 AM
Thanks Count Zero for your wishes..
yes they say there are around 6000 houses broken..
gratefully your friends are ok
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: raven on August 07, 2020, 03:59:09 PM
I have online friends with friends in the area.
They're OK, but the event is definitely opening up some old wounds for them.
No way this is a missile. It would need to be nuclear to do that kind of damage for the size, and  I've seen film of  a Davy Crockett, a similar kiloton scale device, going off, and it looks nothing like this. No, it was a bunch of Ammonium nitrate going off. Horrific, yes, but unlikely to be intentional.
My deepest condolences. Canada had a somewhat similar incident during World War 1, when a ship carrying high explosives caught fire after colliding in the harbour and then exploded. It took out much of Halifax, Nova Scotia.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on August 07, 2020, 04:25:55 PM
I have online friends with friends in the area.
They're OK, but the event is definitely opening up some old wounds for them.
No way this is a missile. It would need to be nuclear to do that kind of damage for the size, and  I've seen film of  a Davy Crockett, a similar kiloton scale device, going off, and it looks nothing like this. No, it was a bunch of Ammonium nitrate going off. Horrific, yes, but unlikely to be intentional.
My deepest condolences. Canada had a somewhat similar incident during World War 1, when a ship carrying high explosives caught fire after colliding in the harbour and then exploded. It took out much of Halifax, Nova Scotia.

also in Texas something similar happened. However, being unintentional doesn't mean there is no one responsible. Responsible people at the airport are arrested. I hope they don't get them out because of their political connections.

videos from local shops https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Af0n27LzA
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: mako88sb on August 07, 2020, 04:26:54 PM
Canada had a somewhat similar incident during World War 1, when a ship carrying high explosives caught fire after colliding in the harbour and then exploded. It took out much of Halifax, Nova Scotia.

I was telling my oldest daughter about this and that I thought it was the biggest non-nuclear explosion but told her to check it out. Yes, at the time it was but I didn’t know about the Texas City one in 1947 that was a bit bigger. Ammonia Nitrate was the cause of that one as well. More than twice as bad as Beirut. Sad to see something like this in a country already struggling.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: raven on August 07, 2020, 06:24:56 PM
I have online friends with friends in the area.
They're OK, but the event is definitely opening up some old wounds for them.
No way this is a missile. It would need to be nuclear to do that kind of damage for the size, and  I've seen film of  a Davy Crockett, a similar kiloton scale device, going off, and it looks nothing like this. No, it was a bunch of Ammonium nitrate going off. Horrific, yes, but unlikely to be intentional.
My deepest condolences. Canada had a somewhat similar incident during World War 1, when a ship carrying high explosives caught fire after colliding in the harbour and then exploded. It took out much of Halifax, Nova Scotia.

also in Texas something similar happened. However, being unintentional doesn't mean there is no one responsible. Responsible people at the airport are arrested. I hope they don't get them out because of their political connections.
I dearly hope those responsible are held accountable as well. This never should have happened.
I was telling my oldest daughter about this and that I thought it was the biggest non-nuclear explosion but told her to check it out. Yes, at the time it was but I didn’t know about the Texas City one in 1947 that was a bit bigger. Ammonia Nitrate was the cause of that one as well. More than twice as bad as Beirut. Sad to see something like this in a country already struggling.
Yep, both are biggies. Another one is the second N1 launch failure, fell right back onto the pad and, "Big badda boom!"
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: Allan F on August 11, 2020, 01:05:00 AM
Canada had a somewhat similar incident during World War 1, when a ship carrying high explosives caught fire after colliding in the harbour and then exploded. It took out much of Halifax, Nova Scotia.

I was telling my oldest daughter about this and that I thought it was the biggest non-nuclear explosion but told her to check it out. Yes, at the time it was but I didn’t know about the Texas City one in 1947 that was a bit bigger. Ammonia Nitrate was the cause of that one as well. More than twice as bad as Beirut. Sad to see something like this in a country already struggling.

What about the Pepcon-disaster, where ammonium perchlorate exploded? Where is that on the scale?
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: 12oh2alarm on August 11, 2020, 04:29:23 PM
Canada had a somewhat similar incident during World War 1, when a ship carrying high explosives caught fire after colliding in the harbour and then exploded. It took out much of Halifax, Nova Scotia.

I was telling my oldest daughter about this and that I thought it was the biggest non-nuclear explosion but told her to check it out. Yes, at the time it was but I didn’t know about the Texas City one in 1947 that was a bit bigger. Ammonia Nitrate was the cause of that one as well. More than twice as bad as Beirut. Sad to see something like this in a country already struggling.

What about the Pepcon-disaster, where ammonium perchlorate exploded? Where is that on the scale?

According to Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_artificial_non-nuclear_explosions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_artificial_non-nuclear_explosions), Pepcon was the seventh largest among the "Largest accidental artificial non-nuclear explosions by magnitude". With Halifax #1, Beirut #5.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: bknight on August 12, 2020, 02:00:45 PM
Canada had a somewhat similar incident during World War 1, when a ship carrying high explosives caught fire after colliding in the harbour and then exploded. It took out much of Halifax, Nova Scotia.

I was telling my oldest daughter about this and that I thought it was the biggest non-nuclear explosion but told her to check it out. Yes, at the time it was but I didn’t know about the Texas City one in 1947 that was a bit bigger. Ammonia Nitrate was the cause of that one as well. More than twice as bad as Beirut. Sad to see something like this in a country already struggling.

What about the Pepcon-disaster, where ammonium perchlorate exploded? Where is that on the scale?

According to Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_artificial_non-nuclear_explosions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_artificial_non-nuclear_explosions), Pepcon was the seventh largest among the "Largest accidental artificial non-nuclear explosions by magnitude". With Halifax #1, Beirut #5.

I was surprised to find that the Texas City explosion was not even listed in the wiki list.
The cargo hold of the SS Grandcamp  which contained 2300 tons of ammonium nitrate blew up causing a massive chain reaction of explosions in Galveston.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_disaster

ETA more than the Beirut (2750 tons)

ETA2 Oh there it is listed as right behind the Beirut explosion.  It must have been missed in the listing at the top of the wiki link because it is at the bottom.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on August 13, 2020, 06:59:58 AM
A Russian expert says that most of the amount is stolen and 2750 tons would have erased Beirut from the map.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: Peter B on August 13, 2020, 09:12:35 AM
A Russian expert says that most of the amount is stolen and 2750 tons would have erased Beirut from the map.

I'm not an explosives expert, but I can do a bit of maths. And I think I disagree with the Russian expert.

The explosive power of 2750 tons of ammonium nitrate has been rated at ~2 kilotons of TNT. That makes it about one-tenth of the explosive power of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Comparing the damage to Beirut with the damage to the Japanese cities, that makes sense to me. The Japanese cities suffered massive damage with few buildings surviving undamaged. Mostly that was the ten times higher explosive power, but probably partly the fact that the atomic bombs detonated in the air above the city. The fact that the Beirut explosion happened at ground/sea level means a lot of the blast was absorbed by buildings in the immediate vicinity, and by the ground underneath. Yet even so it did a lot of damage.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: ineluki on August 14, 2020, 05:47:26 AM
A Russian expert

Oh well... one of those, they are beloved by Conspiraholics of all kind.

1. Who is this expert?
2. What makes him an expert?
3. What reasons beyond "i am an expert" does he provide?
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on August 14, 2020, 08:48:15 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/english.alarabiya.net/en/amp/News/middle-east/2020/08/09/Beirut-would-be-erased-had-full-chemical-load-exploded-bulk-likely-stolen-Expert?espv=1
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: Luther on August 14, 2020, 09:51:28 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/english.alarabiya.net/en/amp/News/middle-east/2020/08/09/Beirut-would-be-erased-had-full-chemical-load-exploded-bulk-likely-stolen-Expert?espv=1

There are some quotes, but they don't show his analysis.

I'm sceptical also.  It's not my area of expertise, so maybe I'm missing something, but the yield should be far less than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs.  So unless there's some reason that Beirut is much more fragile than those cities (and Japanese construction at the time wasn't exactly super-strength either), I would expect a relatively small part of the city to be destroyed.

If there's analysis supporting his conclusion, that's fine, but I want to see it.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on August 14, 2020, 03:31:07 PM
I guess it is better to wait for the probe to come up with results. Rumors are already many and whatever the truth is we need to know it. It is not going to bring back the dead, bu at least put those responsible to punishment and hopefully prevent something similar from happening.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on October 02, 2020, 01:28:57 PM
Local TV according to information about the FBI interrogation: the investigation is going towards the blast being intentional.

Just after a small period of time, and when all port received again goods, another huge fire erupted. What is the answer? Like the first blast..it is because of ironing. Shortly after, the iron building in downtown suddenly catches fire. Why? There was ironing activity
Hizbollah weaponry building in Ain Qana blasts..they surrounded the place and we don't know information

The joke today in Lebanon is asking when is the ironing man going to iron some door in the parliament when they are all in it.

Still waiting for the formal report to come out though. .
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: Allan F on October 03, 2020, 01:48:56 AM
Shifting the blame from the government/city officials towards an external enemy?
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on October 03, 2020, 02:28:37 AM
Shifting the blame from the government/city officials towards an external enemy?

The government is still responsible for storing the nitrates all this time in an unsafe way. And they are still corrupt no matter what. But if someone else did it to pressure the gov. We should know. We need to know who killed all those
innocent people..unless the FBI is dealing with the government because they promised them to fix the sea border issue with Israel which is a decision they took formally, and who knows what they promised to take more of decisions.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on October 03, 2020, 03:02:41 AM
And to keep the door open for everything possible, it is possible the second fire in the port and other fires are set by people to take insurance money.
I can't trust FBI completely after all (especially under Trump administration).
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on August 04, 2021, 12:41:02 PM
Bu today, one year has passed.
The judge Sawwan wanted some politicians for interrogation. They removed him. The other seemingly more audacious named some politicians and recommended removing their immunity. They started to refer the issue to a known committee that never leads anywhere, and it is known that issues will go nowhere if referred to it.
Meanwhile the economical sitaution reaches unprecedented decline. France and the west sells us words and some aids that are not enough, has been speaking aboit punishments for politicians that lead nowhere.
Worse,Hizbollah says it will bring fuel and medicine from Iran no matter what the government says. China and Russia declined receiving fuel from Iran from sanctions,but no, we have to face everyone ..
Why doesn't the west put enough pressure to form a government so things can start to function well I don't know. I am afraid they want to give the countey to Iran in returns of peace with Israel and fixing the issue of the sea fuel with it.

At any rates, if a government is formwd we will have to deal with 5 difficult years at least as we read before issues start to move smoothly. Such a gloomy future, unless some miracle happens.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: Peter B on August 12, 2021, 06:57:19 PM
Bu today, one year has passed.
The judge Sawwan wanted some politicians for interrogation. They removed him. The other seemingly more audacious named some politicians and recommended removing their immunity. They started to refer the issue to a known committee that never leads anywhere, and it is known that issues will go nowhere if referred to it.
Meanwhile the economical sitaution reaches unprecedented decline. France and the west sells us words and some aids that are not enough, has been speaking aboit punishments for politicians that lead nowhere.
Worse,Hizbollah says it will bring fuel and medicine from Iran no matter what the government says. China and Russia declined receiving fuel from Iran from sanctions,but no, we have to face everyone ..
Why doesn't the west put enough pressure to form a government so things can start to function well I don't know. I am afraid they want to give the countey to Iran in returns of peace with Israel and fixing the issue of the sea fuel with it.

At any rates, if a government is formwd we will have to deal with 5 difficult years at least as we read before issues start to move smoothly. Such a gloomy future, unless some miracle happens.

You have my sympathy.

I can barely imagine what it must be like to live in a country with such dysfunctional leadership, but this article provides an idea: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-04/lebanons-collapse-continues-one-year-after-beirut-blast/100343112
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on August 14, 2021, 02:45:13 PM
Thanks Peter.
In fact, the fuel problem has now led one of the biggest and most important hospitals to declare that by Monday if the fuel is not there 40 adults and 15 children in it will die!!
The UN should interfere instantly.
The government is not formed because of Maerican-Iranian  dispute as is said and won't be formed before they agree in September together.

Meanwhile,I pray no one gets sick in this period.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: Peter B on October 09, 2021, 08:43:01 PM
And again, not that we can do much from the outside, except to note that we're aware of what's happening:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-10/lebanon-main-power-plants-shut/100527430

Quote
Lebanon's two main power plants were forced to shut down after running out of fuel, leaving the small country with no government-produced power.

Lebanon is grappling with a crippling energy crisis made worse by its dependency on fuel imports.
Title: Re: Beirut-shima
Post by: LionKing on October 11, 2021, 02:48:57 AM
And again, not that we can do much from the outside, except to note that we're aware of what's happening:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-10/lebanon-main-power-plants-shut/100527430

Quote
Lebanon's two main power plants were forced to shut down after running out of fuel, leaving the small country with no government-produced power.

Lebanon is grappling with a crippling energy crisis made worse by its dependency on fuel imports.

Thanks Peter. Electricity grid restored after the army interfered. http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/284739-fayyad-says-grid-restored-bdl-s-100-million-to-boost-supply

No root solutions though.