Author Topic: Pluto conspiracy  (Read 21120 times)

Offline Abaddon

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1131
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2015, 07:31:26 PM »



Nevertheless, ISO, aperature and so forth are the same regardless. Take whatever camera you have and go photograph some stars. Post your results right here.

In advance, I know what your results will be, and I know you will not post them.


I think Gazpar is on our side. No need to be so hard on him.
I am not being hard on Gazpar. It is only the practical exercise that drives home the lesson. I know for a fact that the first time I did it, my reaction was "Holy cow, this is harder than it looks" and I was forewarned and forearmed, and equipped as to what to expect.

There is no substitute for making the attempt oneself. It's a learning experience.

Offline Gazpar

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2015, 09:10:31 PM »
So I went to my backyard recently and took this pictures of the moon and some stars on the sky.

Moon







Random stars



Is it supposed to be any stars?

Cellphone Iphone 5s

Camera specifications:
   
8 megapixels with 1.5µ pixels
ƒ/2.2 aperture
Sapphire crystal lens cover
True Tone flash
Backside illumination sensor
Five-element lens
Hybrid IR filter
Autofocus
Tap to focus
Exposure control
Auto HDR for photos
Face detection
Panorama
Auto image stabilization
Burst mode
Photo geotagging

Offline Allan F

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 946
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2015, 10:37:24 PM »
You need a real camera, one where you can control ISO setting, aperture and exposure time. A phone camera isn't good enough for that. And you need a tripod.
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline Chew

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 545
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2015, 11:27:10 PM »
So I went to my backyard recently and took this pictures of the moon and some stars on the sky.

Can you post the metadata? I recommend the ExifWizard app. It's free.

Do you know which stars you shot? You can use the SkyMap app to identify them.

Offline Chew

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 545
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2015, 11:36:53 PM »
If we can get the metadata and the magnitude of the stars we can calculate the exposure required for the LORRI camera to pick up stars given the known exposure setting of the Heart of Pluto picture.

Offline Gazpar

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2015, 12:30:39 AM »
Im using your apps Chew. I came a little late so dont expect the star positions to be 100% accurate.


The star to the left is Spica. Virgo.

Focal Length:
133mm (35mm eq.)
Aperture: f/2.2
Exposure: 1/15s
Ev: 6.2
ISO equiv: 2000
ApertureValue: 2.275007124536905
BrightnessValue: -8.309981401115934
ColorSpace: sRGB
ComponentsConfiguration: YCbCr
DateTimeDigitized: 2015:07:23 21:50:19
DateTimeOriginal: 2015:07:23 21:50:19
DigitalZoomRatio: 4.601503759398496
ExifVersion: 2.2.1
ExposureBiasValue: 0
ExposureMode: Auto
ExposureProgram: Normal
ExposureTime: 0.06666666666666667
FNumber: 2.2
Flash: Off, Did not fire
FlashPixVersion: 1.0
FocalLenIn35mmFilm: 133
FocalLength: 4.15
ISOSpeedRatings: 2000
LensMake: Apple
LensModel: iPhone 5s back camera 4.15mm f/2.2
LensSpecification: 4.15,4.15,2.2,2.2
MeteringMode: Pattern
PixelXDimension: 3264
PixelYDimension: 2448
SceneCaptureType: Standard
SceneType: Directly Photographed
SensingMethod: One-chip color area
ShutterSpeedValue: 3.907099697885196
SubjectArea:
X Center: 1623,
Y Center: 1215,
Width: 1789,
Height: 1068
SubsecTimeDigitized: 607
SubsecTimeOriginal: 607
WhiteBalance: Auto
(file) DateTime: 2015:07:23 21:50:19
Make: Apple
Model: iPhone 5s
Orientation: Left
ResolutionUnit: Inches
Software: 8.4
XResolution: 72
YResolution: 72
PixelWidth: 3264
PixelHeight: 2448
FileName: IMG_0101.JPG
FileSize: 422.864 kB


Those 2 starS, I think, they are Hadar and Rigel from Centaurus.

Focal Length:
133mm (35mm eq.)
Aperture: f/2.2
Exposure: 1/15s
Ev: 6.2
ISO equiv: 2000
ApertureValue: 2.275007124536905
BrightnessValue: -8.309981401115934
ColorSpace: sRGB
ComponentsConfiguration: YCbCr
DateTimeDigitized: 2015:07:23 21:50:32
DateTimeOriginal: 2015:07:23 21:50:32
DigitalZoomRatio: 4.601503759398496
ExifVersion: 2.2.1
ExposureBiasValue: 0
ExposureMode: Auto
ExposureProgram: Normal
ExposureTime: 0.06666666666666667
FNumber: 2.2
Flash: Off, Did not fire
FlashPixVersion: 1.0
FocalLenIn35mmFilm: 133
FocalLength: 4.15
ISOSpeedRatings: 2000
LensMake: Apple
LensModel: iPhone 5s back camera 4.15mm f/2.2
LensSpecification: 4.15,4.15,2.2,2.2
MeteringMode: Pattern
PixelXDimension: 3264
PixelYDimension: 2448
SceneCaptureType: Standard
SceneType: Directly Photographed
SensingMethod: One-chip color area
ShutterSpeedValue: 3.907099697885196
SubjectArea:
X Center: 1623,
Y Center: 1215,
Width: 1789,
Height: 1068
SubsecTimeDigitized: 688
SubsecTimeOriginal: 688
WhiteBalance: Auto
(file) DateTime: 2015:07:23 21:50:32
Make: Apple
Model: iPhone 5s
Orientation: Left
ResolutionUnit: Inches
Software: 8.4
XResolution: 72
YResolution: 72
PixelWidth: 3264
PixelHeight: 2448
FileName: IMG_0102.JPG
FileSize: 327.181 kB


Offline Zakalwe

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1544
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2015, 03:28:12 AM »
I am not being hard on Gazpar. It is only the practical exercise that drives home the lesson. I know for a fact that the first time I did it, my reaction was "Holy cow, this is harder than it looks" and I was forewarned and forearmed, and equipped as to what to expect.

There is no substitute for making the attempt oneself. It's a learning experience.

To be fair, it was a bit harsh. However, I get where you are coming from. I know just how hard it is to take anything near resembling a half-decent nightime image and it boils my pee when I hear a complete moron (Heiwa, for example) just handwaving away the effort, time and cost that it takes. 

Gazpar, there's a lesson in here somewhere. People that know what they are talking about can get frustrated by others dismissing their years of work with ridiculous claims. Prof Brian Cox is the one that springs to mind here. Its a normal human reaction, but IMHO, it can play into the hands of the HB. Keep asking the questions because this place is a font of knowledge. At the same time, be prepared to Do Your Own Research. Taking everything that you hear here as gospel without investigating and checking facts is the same mentality that the HBs use. The difference is that here, the people are very knowledgeable and are often experts in the field that they are talking about. Hence their words carry a heck of a lot more authority than some gobshite sitting in his bedroom creating conspiracy theory YouTube videos.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Zakalwe

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1544
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2015, 03:29:18 AM »

Those 2 starS, I think, they are Hadar and Rigel from Centaurus.

??
Rigel is in Orion.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Jason Thompson

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1597
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2015, 06:12:08 AM »
Gazpar, you may well be picking up stars in your photo, but if you are, that is not in any way an anomaly or contradictory to what has been said about exposure times. The one really obvious other feature of that image is that the Moon is greatly overexposed. It's a bright blob with a lot of 'haze' around it. Even with that overexposure of the Moon you've only picked up a couple of faint blobs that might be bright-ish stars. Now imagine if you had the correct exposure to show the detail of the Moon and think how unlikely picking up stars would be in that instance.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Kiwi

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 453
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2015, 07:59:37 AM »
This is a good tuition webpage for doing astrophotography using a digital SLR.
http://theartofnight.com/2014/06/the-art-of-astrophotography-tutorial/

It's by fellow-Kiwi Mark Gee who was Astronomy Photographer of the Year 2013 in the annual competition run by the Royal Observatory, Greenwich. On his webpages he mentions some of the difficulties he had in his early years before he could turn out the good stuff.

Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)
Some people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices and superstitions. — Edward R. Murrow (1908–65)

Offline Zakalwe

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1544
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2015, 08:14:45 AM »
lonelyspeck.com is another great resource.

Key to that type of photography is having access to very dark skies. If you try to get shots like that in an area where there is light pollution, or skyglow from nearby towns then you are going to get very frustrated!
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Chew

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 545
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2015, 08:46:10 AM »

Those 2 starS, I think, they are Hadar and Rigel from Centaurus.

??
Rigel is in Orion.

Alpha Centauri is also known as Rigel Kent. It shows up as "Rigel" in the SkyMap app.

Gazpar, your latitude, longitude, elevation, and the direction your camera was pointed wasn't in the metadata. That means you do not have location services turned on in your phone. That will skew the SkyMap app; it needs your location to properly show the location of the stars. What city do you live in and which direction were you pointed when you took the pic of the two stars?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 08:52:54 AM by Chew »

Offline Zakalwe

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1544
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2015, 09:12:18 AM »


Alpha Centauri is also known as Rigel Kent. It shows up as "Rigel" in the SkyMap app.


No, it's known as Rigil Kent (or Toliman). Skymap is incorrect if it is calling it Rigel. Rigel (Beta Orionis) is in Orion
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Chew

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 545
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2015, 09:18:58 AM »


Alpha Centauri is also known as Rigel Kent. It shows up as "Rigel" in the SkyMap app.


No, it's known as Rigil Kent (or Toliman). Skymap is incorrect if it is calling it Rigel. Rigel (Beta Orionis) is in Orion

Holy crap, I never noticed the difference in spelling! Talk about your attentive blindness. Thank you. It is spelled wrong in the SkyMap app.

Offline Gazpar

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Pluto conspiracy
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2015, 10:03:43 AM »

Those 2 starS, I think, they are Hadar and Rigel from Centaurus.

??
Rigel is in Orion.

Alpha Centauri is also known as Rigel Kent. It shows up as "Rigel" in the SkyMap app.

Gazpar, your latitude, longitude, elevation, and the direction your camera was pointed wasn't in the metadata. That means you do not have location services turned on in your phone. That will skew the SkyMap app; it needs your location to properly show the location of the stars. What city do you live in and which direction were you pointed when you took the pic of the two stars?
Location:
Lat: -28 Lon:-59
Moon photo:  RA: 40  DEC: -2
2 Star Photo: RA: 12  DEC: 55


Is an older photo, the coordinates are not the same.

This is a good tuition webpage for doing astrophotography using a digital SLR.
http://theartofnight.com/2014/06/the-art-of-astrophotography-tutorial/

It's by fellow-Kiwi Mark Gee who was Astronomy Photographer of the Year 2013 in the annual competition run by the Royal Observatory, Greenwich. On his webpages he mentions some of the difficulties he had in his early years before he could turn out the good stuff.


I will check it, thank you. Do you also have one about basics of photography?
Gazpar, you may well be picking up stars in your photo, but if you are, that is not in any way an anomaly or contradictory to what has been said about exposure times. The one really obvious other feature of that image is that the Moon is greatly overexposed. It's a bright blob with a lot of 'haze' around it. Even with that overexposure of the Moon you've only picked up a couple of faint blobs that might be bright-ish stars. Now imagine if you had the correct exposure to show the detail of the Moon and think how unlikely picking up stars would be in that instance.
That makes sense.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 10:30:20 AM by Gazpar »