Off Topic > Beyond Belief
Miracles vs. Science
LionKing:
zakalwe we are searching if science studied similar anecdotes and could understand the reason behind them
gillianren:
Yes. Every time science has looked into them, the reason that comes back is "fraud."
theteacher:
--- Quote from: Zakalwe on January 15, 2017, 01:35:16 PM ---
--- Quote from: theteacher on January 14, 2017, 07:01:07 PM ---It's a miracle that men went to the Moon in the sixties and came back alive, don't you think?
--- End quote ---
The definition of a miracle is something that is inexplicable by reason and can only be attributed to a supernatural being or deity.
--- End quote ---
I think it is more productive to look at the origin of the word miracle: Middle English: via Old French from Latin miraculum object of wonder, from mirari to wonder, from mirus wonderful. From https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/miracle.
--- Quote --- I cannot think of a single occurrence in the Apollo program that can only be explained by invoking a supernatural being. Not a single one. So, by that definition, I do not think that it's a miracle. It's a testimony to hard work, inventiveness, science, mathematics, engineering, bravery, individual sacrifice and determination.
No room here for invisible father-figures that live in the clouds.
--- End quote ---
I couldn't agree more.
Yet I was trying to bring a point across to Lionking. Hence the question.
My point is: The concept of miracles is incommensurable with the concept of science. The two concepts belong to different realms of our way to deal with reality.
Science is an instrumental way to deal with reality, that makes us able to explain and make predictions about said reality. Miracles is a way to describe personal experiences with occurences, that make us wonder and fill us with awe. Thus a miracle is a way to describe a personal experience.
If we look at miracles from that point of view it becomes clear, that what is a miracle to some people, is not necessarily a miracle to others.
In accordance with Michael Shermer in his book "The Believing Brain" I think, that the propensity to adopt concepts such as miracles is hardwired into our brains, and that it takes a lot of hard disciplined work to put those ways of thinking aside, when dealing with reality in a scientific way.
LionKing:
--- Quote from: theteacher on January 17, 2017, 04:49:01 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zakalwe on January 15, 2017, 01:35:16 PM ---
--- Quote from: theteacher on January 14, 2017, 07:01:07 PM ---It's a miracle that men went to the Moon in the sixties and came back alive, don't you think?
--- End quote ---
The definition of a miracle is something that is inexplicable by reason and can only be attributed to a supernatural being or deity.
--- End quote ---
I think it is more productive to look at the origin of the word miracle: Middle English: via Old French from Latin miraculum object of wonder, from mirari to wonder, from mirus wonderful. From https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/miracle.
--- Quote --- I cannot think of a single occurrence in the Apollo program that can only be explained by invoking a supernatural being. Not a single one. So, by that definition, I do not think that it's a miracle. It's a testimony to hard work, inventiveness, science, mathematics, engineering, bravery, individual sacrifice and determination.
No room here for invisible father-figures that live in the clouds.
--- End quote ---
I couldn't agree more.
Yet I was trying to bring a point across to Lionking. Hence the question.
My point is: The concept of miracles is incommensurable with the concept of science. The two concepts belong to different realms of our way to deal with reality.
Science is an instrumental way to deal with reality, that makes us able to explain and make predictions about said reality. Miracles is a way to describe personal experiences with occurences, that make us wonder and fill us with awe. Thus a miracle is a way to describe a personal experience.
If we look at miracles from that point of view it becomes clear, that what is a miracle to some people, is not necessarily a miracle to others.
In accordance with Michael Shermer in his book "The Believing Brain" I think, that the propensity to adopt concepts such as miracles is hardwired into our brains, and that it takes a lot of hard disciplined work to put those ways of thinking aside, when dealing with reality in a scientific way.
--- End quote ---
My idea too is that there are natural laws going on. Even Saint Augustine says: "Miracles are not contrary to nature, but only contrary to what we know about nature". So whatever is going on deserves a look fro science. This seems to be an interesting book https://www.amazon.com/Looking-Miracle-Weeping-Stigmata-Visions/dp/1573926809
Zakalwe:
--- Quote from: theteacher on January 17, 2017, 04:49:01 PM ---
In accordance with Michael Shermer in his book "The Believing Brain" I think, that the propensity to adopt concepts such as miracles is hardwired into our brains, and that it takes a lot of hard disciplined work to put those ways of thinking aside, when dealing with reality in a scientific way.
--- End quote ---
We are hardwired to look for connections where there are none. It's better (from a natural selection point of view) to default to false positives. That rustle in he savannah grass is a tiger...RUN!!! That response means you live another day compares to "That rustle is nothing" and you becoming dinner.
Similarly, there's almost certainly a strong social and Darwinian selective pressure for belief in the supernatural and woo. That doesn't mean that there actually is supernatural and woo though.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version