ApolloHoax.net

Announcements => Announcements => Topic started by: Glom on February 23, 2012, 03:55:05 AM

Title: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Glom on February 23, 2012, 03:55:05 AM
Can I suggest, in light of the last discussion in the old place, that it be made a rule that kilograms measure mass and Newtons measure force?
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Echnaton on February 23, 2012, 01:19:15 PM
Quote
3) Repeated or severe violations of the Proboards Terms of Service

Time to change this rule.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: LunarOrbit on February 23, 2012, 01:25:53 PM
Doh. I thought I got all of the references to Proboards.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: sts60 on February 26, 2012, 09:39:46 AM
OT, perhaps, but to think we thought LongFuzzy a sock of P1k/fd/DT/BF/BS/etc. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=8059250&postcount=7471)...  An injustice of cosmic proportions (though long since corrected).
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: gillianren on February 26, 2012, 01:40:50 PM
There is very little which can happen on a message board which deserves to be called "an injustice of cosmic proportions."  Wrong and unfair?  Yes.  Let's save the hyperbole for more serious problems.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: sts60 on February 26, 2012, 02:28:05 PM
The hyperbole was deliberate, but not serious.  Let's just go with an injustice of, say Rhode Island-sized proportions.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Kiwi on March 06, 2012, 05:31:10 AM
LunarOrbit:

I wonder if there should be a rule similar to the one at BAUT (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/32864-**-Rules-For-Posting-To-This-Board-**?p=1870319#post1870319), about answering pertinent or direct questions in a timely matter. 

Quote
13B. Conspiracy Theories
...People will vigorously challenge your arguments; that's what skeptics do. If you cannot handle a frank and critical examination of your claims, then maybe you need to rethink discussing them here. All such discussions must be kept polite and respectful, by all parties.

You must defend your arguments and directly answer pertinent questions in a timely manner. Honestly answering "I don't know" is acceptable. Evasiveness will not be tolerated.

The late, unlamented Dr Socks was a great one for not answering questions and this can cause much frustration and wasted time for debunkers.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Chew on March 06, 2012, 12:54:43 PM
LunarOrbit:

I wonder if there should be a rule similar to the one at BAUT (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/32864-**-Rules-For-Posting-To-This-Board-**?p=1870319#post1870319), about answering pertinent or direct questions in a timely matter. 

+1. But not as Nazified as the BAUT.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Glom on March 06, 2012, 01:25:09 PM
LunarOrbit:

I wonder if there should be a rule similar to the one at BAUT (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/32864-**-Rules-For-Posting-To-This-Board-**?p=1870319#post1870319), about answering pertinent or direct questions in a timely matter. 

Quote
13B. Conspiracy Theories
...People will vigorously challenge your arguments; that's what skeptics do. If you cannot handle a frank and critical examination of your claims, then maybe you need to rethink discussing them here. All such discussions must be kept polite and respectful, by all parties.

You must defend your arguments and directly answer pertinent questions in a timely manner. Honestly answering "I don't know" is acceptable. Evasiveness will not be tolerated.

The late, unlamented Dr Socks was a great one for not answering questions and this can cause much frustration and wasted time for debunkers.


What on the Moon possessed you to bring this up now?  I really can't fathom.

But I agree with Chew's position.  It sounds like a good rule to have, but not if we go to the point of then banning posters and closing threads because of a few transgressions.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: gillianren on March 06, 2012, 01:30:47 PM
Define "a few."  I'm all for banning people over it if it becomes problematic.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Echnaton on March 06, 2012, 01:40:19 PM
LunarOrbit:

I wonder if there should be a rule similar to the one at BAUT (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php/32864-**-Rules-For-Posting-To-This-Board-**?p=1870319#post1870319), about answering pertinent or direct questions in a timely matter. 

Quote
13B. Conspiracy Theories
...People will vigorously challenge your arguments; that's what skeptics do. If you cannot handle a frank and critical examination of your claims, then maybe you need to rethink discussing them here. All such discussions must be kept polite and respectful, by all parties.

You must defend your arguments and directly answer pertinent questions in a timely manner. Honestly answering "I don't know" is acceptable. Evasiveness will not be tolerated.

The late, unlamented Dr Socks was a great one for not answering questions and this can cause much frustration and wasted time for debunkers.


Isn't that mostly covered under the rules

Quote
8. Trolling
b) repeatedly making the same claim or accusation while ignoring responses that dispute it.
c) repeatedly making claims while ignoring requests to either support or withdraw them
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Neil Baker on September 02, 2015, 11:29:52 PM
I was seeking clarification on the no Holocaust discussion ruling.
It was discussed briefly on the Apollo thread but I wasn't sure if any new rule had been made.
I understand there's a place for "other discussions" but I didn't want to waste my time if there's a rule against it and it only get taken down.

By the way, why don't you want the Holocaust hoax discussed?
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: smartcooky on September 03, 2015, 12:05:15 AM
By the way, why don't you want the Holocaust hoax discussed?

While not wishing to pre-empt LunarOrbit's reasons, I can give you a number of reasons why I think it should not be discussed here.

1. This is an Apollo Hoax discussion board. While we also discuss other issues with regards to Space Science, this is not an appropriate forum for Holocaust discussion. There are specialist boards on the interwebz for what you seek, I suggest you go find them.

2. Apollo Hoax belief is a largely dying branch of conspiracy theory. It attracts a small and declining number of certifiable kooks, e.g. The Blunder from Down Under, Dorkman, the Whimper, Weisbekcer etc. They are, in the words of Ford Prefect, "mostly harmless"; a bunch of fools who are simply incapable of understanding even the most basic science and engineering principles involved.

3. Holocaust Denial is a whole other far more dangerous proposition for discussion. It attracts Holocaust Deniers, a bunch of very nasty people, from all corners of the internet. Some even have convictions for actual violence and threatening to kill people (you being one of them). It also attracts anti-semites, white supremacists, extreme racists and whole a raft of other scrum-of-the-earth ratbags that we, as members don't want to see anywhere near this forum.

4. Holocaust Denial threads inevitably lead to flame wars (have a look at the Holocaust threads at JREF) and just as inevitably, Lunar Orbit's workload would rise and he would have his hands full dealing with it. Better to just nip it in the bud and kill it from the get-go.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: bknight on September 03, 2015, 12:11:37 AM
...
4. Holocaust Denial threads inevitably lead to flame wars (have a look at the Holocaust threads at JREF) and just as inevitably, Lunar Orbit's workload would rise and he would have his hands full dealing with it. Better to just nip it in the bud and kill it from the get-go.
The subject matter does indeed bring about the worst in humanity and I agree it should not be allowed.  Neil, LO has indicated he doesn't want it and if you want to publish viral trash start and maintain your own forum.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Echnaton on September 03, 2015, 05:34:16 PM
Holocaust denial can be a cover for anti-semitism and a great deal of it hinges on claims that are inseparable from those used to support anti-semitism.  Just take it elsewhere.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Luke Pemberton on September 03, 2015, 05:38:01 PM
What Echnaton wrote.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: LunarOrbit on September 03, 2015, 08:57:36 PM
I was seeking clarification on the no Holocaust discussion ruling.
It was discussed briefly on the Apollo thread but I wasn't sure if any new rule had been made.

Here is the relevant rule:

9. Getting Banned

Some examples of banable behaviour are (but are not limited to):

4) Posting offensive, obscene, illegal, or adult material

It is intentionally vague about what is offensive because I can't possibly anticipate and list every way someone could be offensive. As the owner of this forum I will be the judge of what is offensive, but any reasonable person ought to know that claiming the holocaust never happened is going to offend a large number of people.

Consider yourself a guest in my home. If you wish to continue using the forum you will follow the rules.

By the way, why don't you want the Holocaust hoax discussed?

Oh, you misunderstand. People are free to discuss the holocaust, just like any other historical event. It is the denial of the holocaust that I will not permit. The reason is quite simple: I don't wish to attract anti-semites to the forum because the finger I use to click the ban button gets tired easily. There are plenty of places on the internet where bigots are free to gather... this isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Neil Baker on September 04, 2015, 12:50:15 PM
As the owner of this forum I will be the judge of what is offensive, but any reasonable person ought to know that claiming the holocaust never happened is going to offend a large number of people.

I think it's very reasonable to claim the holocaust is a hoax. No documented gas chambers, nowhere near enough ovens, Zyklon B still manufactured as Uragan D2 with claims it served as an agent of mass murder scoffed at by it's Czech Republic makers and outrageous thought-crime laws prohibiting questioning or investigating the holocaust to reveal the truth.

Why do you think a reasonable person would believe the holocaust? 

I was once a believer of the holocaust. Like many others, I was brainwashed to believe. I read the books, watched the television mini-series, saw the movies, etc.; I was a firm believer. But then I was challenged by some French students to reexamine. It took my disabuse from the lies of 9-11 before I summoned the courage but I did. You should too. You've been lugging around lies too long. Lighten the load and take the Holocaust Deprogramming Course.

Consider yourself a guest in my home. If you wish to continue using the forum you will follow the rules.

I want to follow the rules. Is there a rule that says nobody can be protagonist that the holocaust is a hoax?
I'm not an anti-Semite, Nazi, skin-head or racist. If they appeared I would expect you to ban them.


Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Zakalwe on September 04, 2015, 12:54:48 PM
I'm not an anti-Semite, Nazi, skin-head or racist. If they appeared I would expect you to ban them.


Well, you're bald and clearly a racist, so two out of three.....

Who else but Americans matter?

Yes, and I wish they would identify themselves so I can ignore them. Which American CIA controlled country are you from?
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Bob B. on September 04, 2015, 12:59:12 PM
Baker, you've just be told that holocaust denial is a prohibited subject on the forum, yet here you are discussing it.  Stop, just stop!  Do not bring up the subject again.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: bknight on September 04, 2015, 01:00:01 PM
Baker, you've just be told that holocaust denial is a prohibited subject on the forum, yet here you are discussing it.  Stop, just stop!  Do not bring up the subject again.
He think LO is just kidding? ::)
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Neil Baker on September 04, 2015, 01:05:10 PM
Baker, you've just be told that holocaust denial is a prohibited subject on the forum, yet here you are discussing it.  Stop, just stop!  Do not bring up the subject again.

It's not listed in the rules.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Ishkabibble on September 04, 2015, 01:06:09 PM
He really doesn't have the mental capacity to understand, does he?
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Andromeda on September 04, 2015, 01:08:40 PM
Baker, you've just be told that holocaust denial is a prohibited subject on the forum, yet here you are discussing it.  Stop, just stop!  Do not bring up the subject again.

It's not listed in the rules.

LO has told you himself, very clearly.

Hopefully he will soon delete that sickening pile of crap that is your previous post.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Bob B. on September 04, 2015, 01:11:00 PM
It's not listed in the rules.

Are you really so stupid that you do not understand Lunar Orbit's instructions?  He cited the rule and his interpretation of it.  If he judges holocaust denial to be an offensive topic that is inappropriate for the forum, then that is the law around here.  He owns this place.  The rules are what he says they are.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Neil Baker on September 04, 2015, 01:19:30 PM
It's not listed in the rules.

Are you really so stupid that you do not understand Lunar Orbit's instructions?  He cited the rule and his interpretation of it.  If he judges holocaust denial to be an offensive topic that is inappropriate for the forum, then that is the law around here.  He owns this place.  The rules are what he says they are.

So it shouldn't be a big deal to put it in the list of rules to clarify like I requested to begin with.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Luke Pemberton on September 04, 2015, 01:21:12 PM
It's not listed in the rules.

You really are a moron if you did not understand LO's instruction. Oh, he also said holocausts deniers are fair game if you want to complain about me calling you a moron. But you really are a moron, or wanting to get banned, for bringing up the holocaust revisionism again. I always say this, I hope you aren't banned as the more you write the more evidence there is to show you for what you are.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Luke Pemberton on September 04, 2015, 01:23:06 PM
So it shouldn't be a big deal to put it in the list of rules to clarify like I requested to begin with.

(a) LO has explained why he keeps that part of the rules vague.
(b) He has warned you to give you chance.
(c) He has asked you not to post again on revisionism.
(d) Other people have interpreted LO's request, other than you. It's you that's the odd one out... hang on...

Do you see it now. you're the odd one out when it comes to thinking things through. See what I did there. ;)
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Neil Baker on September 04, 2015, 01:24:37 PM

Hopefully he will soon delete that sickening pile of crap that is your previous post.

I can empathize with you. I remember when I was first challenged to reexamine the holocaust by two French students. I got angry. I responded with profanity. In hindsight I can see how powerfully I'd been brainwashed. It took revelations about 9-11 before I could summon the courage to confront the truth about the holocaust. Please summon the courage.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Zakalwe on September 04, 2015, 01:25:13 PM
So it shouldn't be a big deal to put it in the list of rules to clarify like I requested to begin with.

In other words "If I ran the world....". The problem is, you don't run the world. So you don't get to make the rules.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Andromeda on September 04, 2015, 01:28:38 PM

Hopefully he will soon delete that sickening pile of crap that is your previous post.

I can empathize with you. I remember when I was first challenged to reexamine the holocaust by two French students. I got angry. I responded with profanity. In hindsight I can see how powerfully I'd been brainwashed. It took revelations about 9-11 before I could summon the courage to confront the truth about the holocaust. Please summon the courage.

You can't possibly empathise with me.  You seem incapable of empathising with anyone.

How dare you say such things to me.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Luke Pemberton on September 04, 2015, 01:30:48 PM
You can't possibly empathise with me.

How dare you say such things to me.

I kind of knew a scathing response was coming.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Andromeda on September 04, 2015, 01:33:14 PM
You can't possibly empathise with me.

How dare you say such things to me.

I kind of knew a scathing response was coming.

I'm not a scathing person, really.  But come on.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: LunarOrbit on September 04, 2015, 01:53:29 PM
Neil Baker has been placed under moderation. I'll respond in more detail when I'm near a computer.

Sent from my SM-N920W8 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: bknight on September 04, 2015, 02:20:24 PM

So it shouldn't be a big deal to put it in the list of rules to clarify like I requested to begin with.
LO has given you his reasons, that is all you should need.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Luke Pemberton on September 04, 2015, 06:41:02 PM
I'm not a scathing person, really.  But come on.

I penned this earlier, but LO locked the thread for good reason.

Oh, you are a far from scathing, we know that. In fact, your posts are very measured and succinct. I thought your scathing-ness in this case was quite moderate and considered given the offensive material posted by Mr Baker. Had you offered him a full broadside, it would have been richly deserved (IMHO).
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: LunarOrbit on September 04, 2015, 08:08:02 PM
I think it's very reasonable to claim the holocaust is a hoax.

And that is just one of the many things you are wrong about. But of course irrational people like you do not always recognize that they are being irrational.

Quote
Why do you think a reasonable person would believe the holocaust?

Because the idea that there was a massive international conspiracy to trick people into believing that millions of people were murdered is not even remotely believable. A rational person would recognize that.

Quote
But then I was challenged by some French students to reexamine.

Oh, well... if you heard it from some French students then it must be true.  ::)

How about you read the stories of some holocaust survivors? Surely their first-hand knowledge trumps the claims of a bunch of students who were born decades after the fact?

But I know you will just accuse them of lying for no other reason than that you are bigoted against Jews. If you're honest with yourself, you'll know that is true.

So far you have accused survivors of lying, others of conspiring to commit a massive hoax, and pretty much everyone else of being brainwashed idiots. And you still can't comprehend why people find holocaust denial offensive?

Quote
I want to follow the rules. Is there a rule that says nobody can be protagonist that the holocaust is a hoax?

The rule is that you can't be offensive. It's the same thing.

Like I said, the rule is vague because there are an infinite number of ways to be offensive. But the reason I didn't immediately ban you is because that rule is vague. Instead I warned you not to continue with that topic.

There is also a rule that says you can't ignore warnings from the moderator, and another saying you can be banned for provoking me. I warned you once that holocaust denial is not welcome in this form, and yet you persisted. That is both ignoring my warning, and provoking me.

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't just ban you right now.

Quote
I'm not an anti-Semite...

Yes, you are. Your willingness to accept the "challenges" from those French students over the first-hand accounts of holocaust survivors is entirely based on your biases against Jews. 
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Peter B on September 05, 2015, 02:07:27 AM
I was once a believer of the holocaust...But then I was challenged by some French students to reexamine.

Interesting. According to you...
Quote
Who else but Americans matter?

As far as foreigners are concerned, you said yourself:
Quote
...I wish they would identify themselves so I can ignore them.

Just to clarify: French = non-American = foreigners.

So why would you listen to some students from France?
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: smartcooky on September 05, 2015, 05:21:24 AM
I was once a believer of the holocaust...But then I was challenged by some French students to reexamine.

Interesting. According to you...
Quote
Who else but Americans matter?

As far as foreigners are concerned, you said yourself:
Quote
...I wish they would identify themselves so I can ignore them.

Just to clarify: French = non-American = foreigners.

So why would you listen to some students from France?


BUSTED!!!!
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Jason Thompson on September 05, 2015, 07:05:14 AM
Given Neil's demonstrated inability to understand what consitutes evidence or proof, and his comcommitant inability to critically analyse it, I would venture to guess that one could challenge him to re-examine any historical event and he'd find it wanting in terms of reliable evidence.

I had a few other comments but thought it best to let this part of the discussion die the death it so richly deserves.

My only other comment is one that should be self-evident: the only answer to the question of why holocaust denial is not permitted on this board that matters is 'Lunar Orbit says so'. His board, his rules. End of discussion.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: bknight on September 05, 2015, 07:34:25 AM
Given Neil's demonstrated inability to understand what consitutes evidence or proof, and his comcommitant inability to critically analyse it, I would venture to guess that one could challenge him to re-examine any historical event and he'd find it wanting in terms of reliable evidence.

I had a few other comments but thought it best to let this part of the discussion die the death it so richly deserves.

My only other comment is one that should be self-evident: the only answer to the question of why holocaust denial is not permitted on this board that matters is 'Lunar Orbit says so'. His board, his rules. End of discussion.
Posters have two choices obey the rules whether they like the rules or not OR leave the forum.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Count Zero on September 05, 2015, 12:28:34 PM
I think this whole thread is proof (yes, I used that word) that Neil is trying to get banned, and thus feed his martyr self-image.  L.O. could oblige, him since Herr Baker really is a nobody that no-one cares about who hopes that, by being an asshole, people will notice him (I've known some children like this).

L.O. has other options.  If my understanding of "moderation" is correct, the webmaster must approve the moderated person's post for it to appear on the forum.  If L.O. were to decide (and I would most definitely trust his judgement on this) that none of this foaming degenerate's posts have merit, then he can simply not-approve any of them, and this legend-in-his-own-mind will fade away - silently, impotently and without his "Banned" badge-of-honor.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: bknight on September 05, 2015, 12:53:28 PM
That puts a lot of work onto LO, and he may not want to go through that hassle on even a mid-term basis.  My speculation of course.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Luke Pemberton on September 05, 2015, 01:14:20 PM
I posted a comment on the main Baker thread, like most threads of this nature, it follows a similar pattern. For the utmost part of the 'debate' Neil remained civil. It would appear that once 'watching' was placed on his account, the thread here (and elsewhere) escalated until he was moderated. The same thing happened with the awe130 thread.

I would surmise that he was trying to get banned as he was no longer in control with a 'watch' status, and sought to be punished for a moral victory. I'm not convinced he failed to understand LO's stark warning about Holocaust revisionism, and I am of the firm belief he upped the ante to get banned so he could claim censorship.

The moderation status is a perfect way to deal with people like Neil, he's no longer in control in his mind, and he'll lose interest and the thread will burn out. OK, I guess LO has to read through Neil's posts, and that adds work, but at least he cannot claim he has been silenced.

I do like how LO only resorts to the ban hammer when the case is very clear and he knows it will save him work, such cases would include spamming and a stream of insults/profanity I guess.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on September 05, 2015, 03:58:07 PM
My dads older brother Bill, in 1945 he was part of the British 11th Armoured division that liberated the Belsen concentration camp. To hear him talk about the piles of corpses and emaciated disease ridden survivors, would soon cure Neil of his doubt. But as others have stated, he seems to be pushing for a ban.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: sts60 on September 05, 2015, 05:43:30 PM
Look, it's not OK for us to chastise Neil for bad behavior and then come out with "foaming degenerate" and "you should be called commitdd", etc.  It is inconsistent with the TOS we insist he must follow, adds nothing of value to the Apollo discussion, and in general allows conspiracists to drag he conversation through he underbrush.   It makes this board look bad.  It's rude, and while I am fully aware of what the poster in question has been doing, we don't need to do that.  Please ignore the "off-topics", which should be easier now that Mr. Baker is being moderated.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Count Zero on September 05, 2015, 09:00:22 PM
Point taken.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: bknight on September 05, 2015, 11:26:56 PM
Look, it's not OK for us to chastise Neil for bad behavior and then come out with "foaming degenerate" and "you should be called commitdd", etc.  It is inconsistent with the TOS we insist he must follow, adds nothing of value to the Apollo discussion, and in general allows conspiracists to drag he conversation through he underbrush.   It makes this board look bad.  It's rude, and while I am fully aware of what the poster in question has been doing, we don't need to do that.  Please ignore the "off-topics", which should be easier now that Mr. Baker is being moderated.

Assuming he does come back.  He might feel that moderation doesn't allow him to voice the "truth".
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Halcyon Dayz, FCD on September 07, 2015, 10:24:53 AM
So it shouldn't be a big deal to put it in the list of rules to clarify like I requested to begin with.
In other words "If I ran the world....". The problem is, you don't run the world. So you don't get to make the rules.
That's not a problem, that's a blessing.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Echnaton on September 07, 2015, 09:16:02 PM
THe best thing to do with Baker and people like Baker is ban them.  His anti-semitism has nothing to do with the purpose of the board and we should disassociate him from the board immediately.  Any delay or opportunity to let him reform will just give him more opportunity to push his shameful bigotry.  That said, I support LO in how he wants to handle it as he has a good record of managing these kinds of posters.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Neil Baker on September 12, 2015, 10:11:36 PM
I think Christopher Hitchens said it about as well as anyone. Please take the time to listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIU96N7ciXM
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: LunarOrbit on September 13, 2015, 11:40:02 AM
Christopher Hitchens was talking about protecting speech from government censorship. The last time I checked, I'm not the government and you haven't been imprisoned for your beliefs.

Your right to free speech only means you can't be restricted from expressing your beliefs by the government. It does not mean I am required to give you a platform to do so. I pay for this forum, and I have the same right to kick you out of my forum that I have to kick you out of my home. All you have to do is give me a reason to not like you.

As I've said before, you're free to start your own forum if you don't like how I run this one.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: bknight on September 13, 2015, 12:08:15 PM
Christopher Hitchens was talking about protecting speech from government censorship. The last time I checked, I'm not the government and you haven't been imprisoned for your beliefs.

Your right to free speech only means you can't be restricted from expressing your beliefs by the government. It does not mean I am required to give you a platform to do so. I pay for this forum, and I have the same right to kick you out of my forum that I have to kick you out of my home. All you have to do is give me a reason to not like you.

As I've said before, you're free to start your own forum if you don't like how I run this one.
I think Mr. Baker does not have the capacity to equate the government censorship with personal beliefs.  You have stated the obvious as to his course of actions many times and he still doesn't get it. 
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Zakalwe on September 13, 2015, 02:44:22 PM
Christopher Hitchens was talking about protecting speech from government censorship. The last time I checked, I'm not the government and you haven't been imprisoned for your beliefs.


Its more than likely that Baker considers you to be a paid shill for NASA, therefore on the gubernmint's payroll. So he will equate his moderated status with being denied his right to free speech.  ::)

xkcd, as usual, hits the nail squarely on the head....

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/free_speech.png)

Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Abaddon on September 13, 2015, 03:06:53 PM
I think Christopher Hitchens said it about as well as anyone. Please take the time to listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIU96N7ciXM
This is a privately owned and run website. The owner is perfectly entitled to lay down whatever rules they prefer.

Your issue is not a freedom of speech issue.

Your issue is that you want to dictate which rules apply in a private venue just to suit whatever your agenda is.

It doesn't work that way. Nor can you force it to work that way.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: sts60 on September 13, 2015, 04:27:05 PM
I think Christopher Hitchens said it about as well as anyone. Please take the time to listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIU96N7ciXM
Other people have pointed out your fundamental mistake here.  I just have one thing to add: 

Quit whining.

And since you first came on here claiming you had evidence Apollo was faked, and trying to argue from some sort of engineering authority, only to reveal your ignorance of and incompetence in the topic - a violation of guidelines you brought up - let me also add:

Don't be such a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Jason Thompson on September 13, 2015, 04:48:02 PM
Oh, how predictable.

'Wah, my free speech is being oppressed, waaahhh'

Neil, go and learn what 'free speech' actually means before you spout of crap about censorship.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: JayUtah on September 14, 2015, 01:56:33 PM
Most of the people who whine about censorship don't know the difference between censorship and editorship.  Censorship, which is what Hitchens described, is when the government (i.e. Austria) uses its force to compel you not to say a certain thing anytime, anywhere.  It effectively says, "This alternative idea is not permitted anywhere within the country," under penalty of loss of liberty and property.

Editorship is simply the management of one single organ of communication, for purposes that may include (but are not limited to) disapprobation of an idea.  An editor is not a censor anymore than a being ejected from a restaurant by its manager is equivalent to forcing you to starve.  Your use of someone else's edited resource to facilitate your speech is a tacit agreement to the terms by which that facilitation is offered.  If you do not agree to the terms, then you are quite free to find some other means of expression, or to create your own.  An editor who disallows discussion of the Holocaust on her gardening blog is not running afoul of the First Amendment in the least bit, nor in any way standing upon morally shaky ground.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Luke Pemberton on September 14, 2015, 06:32:15 PM
Please take the time to listen.

Really? Why should I listen to you? You refused to answer a multitude of questions here, sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring anything that was posited to demonstrate your technical expertise.
Title: Re: Discussing The Forum Rules
Post by: Kiwi on September 26, 2015, 12:58:57 AM
Please, people, keep discussions on topic -- don't derail threads, and do start new threads for new topics.  LunarOrbit doesn't particularly like asking adults to behave like adults, so read Rule Number 2.
http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=18.msg120#msg120

Quote
2. Posting New Topics

Ensure a topic doesn't already exist before starting a new one. Multiple threads about the same topic can create confusion.

Try not to spread discussions from one thread into another, and don't take a thread off topic...

One particularly good thing about this forum is that discussions have so often stayed on topic and people have started new threads as soon as someone changes the topic. Unfortunately some of our newer members are not doing this. Recently a thread was derailed into a discussion of Daleks, which had nothing to do with the topic, and even some of our longer-term members contributed to that. Another thread about high-resolution Apollo photos has wandered into a discussion about Jack Schmitt and Jack White.

In the past, it has mostly been hoax-believers who derail their own threads.