Author Topic: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?  (Read 224766 times)

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #195 on: February 03, 2015, 12:05:55 AM »
I understand... I am not just another poster here like Windley said he was. I am in his and your house.

No.  This is LunarOrbit's forum.  I participate in it on exactly the same footing as you do.  I have no special powers, no special access, and no special authority.  You may be obsessed over me, but the rest of the forum is not.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Bob B.

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #196 on: February 03, 2015, 12:06:57 AM »
Your job is obviously to prevent disclosure of evidence proving that NASA fabricated evidence of the moon landings.

Then why have we been requesting for several pages now for your to present your evidence?

Right now it is 6 versus 1, 1 of which is threatening to censor me.

The condition that was set for you to not be placed on moderation is for your to present your evidence.

Offline DD Brock

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #197 on: February 03, 2015, 12:07:12 AM »

Walking into someone else's house and dictating terms is bad form.

I understand... I am not just another poster here like Windley said he was. I am in his and your house.

I see.

No, you don't understand. We are all in Lunar Orbit's house. YOU are trying to set rules the rest of us are under no obligation to follow, and Lunar Orbit has no obligation to honor.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 12:12:41 AM by DD Brock »

Offline Chief

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #198 on: February 03, 2015, 12:07:41 AM »
 "

The standards you must abide in are not  some well concealed secret. you are required to use empirical evidence and the scientific method. If you do not know what that means, LOOK IT UP.. Since you cannot duplicate the event, the onus is upon you to prove it. That's how science has always worked for centuries, that is until NASA came along and then it was just "you believe it because this is the way we said it happened!"



No, you are asserting that you should investigate an historical event by those means, it has been explained to you that one does not investigate historical events using a scientific method. You think you can. Show us how.

As an analogy, John killed Mary in 1953, There were photographs, film, witnesses etc.

You seem to be saying that the only way to know if John killed Mary is for sure is for Fred to kill Martha in the same way.

What you should be doing is examining the photos, film, and talking to surviving witnesses and come to a reasonable conclusion that John did indeed kill Mary.

Offline Romulus

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #199 on: February 03, 2015, 12:09:48 AM »


You are NOT being asked to prove a negative, you have been asked to prove your claims that

1. The Lunar surface video was faked
2. The moon rocks are fake
3. The Saturn V launched were faked
4. The entirety of the Apollo record including all engineering documents, audio/visual records, photographs and journals are all faked
5. Apollo is a global, ongoing conspiracy



I don't recall mentioning any of those things and I was very careful not to...yet. I understand I implied I believed they must have been faked. I haven't gotten to any of that yet. i think by piling on both opponents and many requirements at once you have made it impossible to do what you claim you want to give me the opportunity to do. it's obvious what you really want to do is create a situation with rules where it is impossible for me to prove anything. that is why this debate has went on for nearly 50 years now. it certainly isn't because NASA has proved what it brags to have done. Niel Armstrong didn't remember being on the moon because he wasn't. He, unlike you was unwilling to brag about a lie.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #200 on: February 03, 2015, 12:12:05 AM »
The standards you must abide in are not  some well concealed secret. you are required to use empirical evidence and the scientific method. If you do not know what that means, LOOK IT UP.

Again, you are speaking in many cases to professional scientists.  You have not substantiated your claim to be a scientist or to have any special knowledge of, expertise with, or insight into the scientific method.  Thus such condescension is unwarranted.  To that end, you have been asked specifically how "empirical evidence" and "the scientific method" can apply to similar events in history.  You haven't provided that very important justification.

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Since you cannot duplicate the event, the onus is upon you to prove it.

The proof has been submitted.  It is that very proof that you are trying to explain away.  When you try to explain it by claiming affirmatively that arose by some other means, the burden of proof moves to you.

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...until NASA came along and then it was just "you believe it because this is the way we said it happened!"

Nonsense.  NASA and its associates have given a mountain of evidence in various forms.  They explicitly do not ask you to take their word for it.  They provide as much detail as you can hope for, allowing you to check up on every detail of their claims.

You, on the other hand, provide absolutely nothing.  You are the one asking us to take your word for it that you have incontrovertible proofs and the superior intellect to argue them.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline gillianren

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #201 on: February 03, 2015, 12:14:12 AM »
Wait, when did Neil Armstrong ever say he didn't remember being on the Moon?  He actually talked about it quite a lot.  His memories, and those of the others who were involved in Apollo, are just one of the pieces of evidence you have to explain in order to prove that Apollo was faked.  And it isn't an implication that all those pieces were faked.  It's a necessary component in the idea that the Apollo missions weren't real.  Which you did, in fact, affirmatively state that you could prove was faked.  I read what you wrote, even if you didn't.

When the Cottingley Fairy pictures were proven to have been faked, the easiest part was finding the books the pictures had been cut out of to make the fakes.  So how about it--how about you find the easiest piece of Apollo evidence to prove was faked.  Pick one part and show your evidence.  Any evidence.  Any at all.

[crickets]
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Offline Romulus

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #202 on: February 03, 2015, 12:14:18 AM »
I understand... I am not just another poster here like Windley said he was. I am in his and your house.

No.  This is LunarOrbit's forum.  I participate in it on exactly the same footing as you do.

You GOTTA be kidding!

Phil Plait runs this forum and you and he have the identical same job description and objectives. I wonder just who you think you're fooling. this is why you have zero credibility as far as I am concerned. This is a WHOPPER

Offline Romulus

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #203 on: February 03, 2015, 12:17:34 AM »

Again, you are speaking in many cases to professional scientists. 

No sir, I see no evidence any of you are scientists nor even understand the scientific process on a basic level.

 i am not speaking to scientists and it is crystal clear what i am really speaking to is propagandists skilled in the art of misinformation and subterfuge.

Offline Bob B.

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #204 on: February 03, 2015, 12:17:47 AM »
Phil Plait runs this forum...

Phil Plait has nothing to do with this forum.  I don't even think he's a member, and if he is, he's not an active participant.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #205 on: February 03, 2015, 12:18:25 AM »
I don't recall mentioning any of those things...

Yeah, that's the problem.

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I haven't gotten to any of that yet.

Yeah, that's the problem.

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I think by piling on both opponents and many requirements at once you have made it impossible to do what you claim you want to give me the opportunity to do.

That wasn't a problem when you claimed you could best all of us in a debate.  You have spent page after page praising your ability to argue your case.  Now argue it.

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it's obvious what you really want to do is create a situation with rules where it is impossible for me to prove anything.

No, you want ground rules that absolve you from ever having to prove anything or do anything except say how well-founded your beliefs are.  If you cannot prove your claims, then resign the debate.  If you can, then do so now please.

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that is why this debate has went on for nearly 50 years now.

No.  Your inability to convince anyone is not a consequence of your critics taking unfair advantage.

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it certainly isn't because NASA has proved what it brags to have done.

According to whom?

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Niel Armstrong didn't remember being on the moon because he wasn't.

Armstrong wrote and spoke extensively about his experiences on the Moon.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #206 on: February 03, 2015, 12:19:20 AM »
No sir, I see no evidence any of you are scientists nor even understand the scientific process on a basic level.

Then present your scientific arguments and confound us all.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Romulus

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #207 on: February 03, 2015, 12:21:13 AM »
Phil Plait runs this forum...

Phil Plait has nothing to do with this forum.  I don't even think he's a member, and if he is, he's not an active participant.

Well there went any credibility you might have had. You do realize it is common knowledge he represents NASA  in an "outreach" program (propagandist), and operates this website?

Gee whiz!

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #208 on: February 03, 2015, 12:21:35 AM »
Phil Plait runs this forum...

No, he doesn't.

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...and you and he have the identical same job description and objectives.

According to what evidence?
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #209 on: February 03, 2015, 12:22:48 AM »
You do realize it is common knowledge he represents NASA  in an "outreach" program (propagandist), and operates this website?

If it's common knowledge, as you say, that he operates this web site, you should be easily able to find evidence of that within the next few minutes.  Do so.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams