Author Topic: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists  (Read 183793 times)

Offline smartcooky

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2013, 01:59:03 PM »
With Kaysing, was it the case that he made it up but got to believing his own lie because it suited him? You know one of those types who doesn't quite understand what it means to be truth?


More likely it was "the case that he made it up but got to believing his own lie because" it made him a good living!
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2013, 09:30:38 PM »
More likely it was "the case that he made it up but got to believing his own lie because" it made him a good living!

I disagree.  Kaysing spent most of his post-Apollo life proudly destitute.  While I'm sure he appreciated the money, I doubt there was much of it and that this was his primary motivation.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline ineluki

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2013, 08:31:52 AM »
They perfectly eliminate all other shadows while keeping one perfectly dark and yet they don't so anything about the fact that the direction is wrong.

It fits perfectly with the other ideas of the Hoaxer, like building an obviously fake Lunar Module out of cardboard

We don't expect them to use logic and admit reality, do we?

Offline Count Zero

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2013, 03:09:48 AM »
Here's one for the Hoax Believers:

Why is the idea that men have not walked on the Moon more interesting and/or attractive than the idea that men have walked on the Moon?
"What makes one step a giant leap is all the steps before."

Offline JayUtah

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2013, 01:25:35 PM »
Why is the idea that men have not walked on the Moon more interesting and/or attractive than the idea that men have walked on the Moon?

Easy.  The content of the idea is irrelevant.  The number and character of the people who believe it are important.  The idea of hoaxed Moon landings is more attractive because it's the rebellious point of view.  Everyone believes they walked on the Moon.  Those people are the masses, the sheeple.  But only the enlightened few know it was a hoax.  The thrill of secret, insider knowledge is what drives the belief.  It doesn't matter what the belief is about.

This is why conspiracy theories involving recent tragedies such as school and cinema shootings bring such condemnation down upon their proponents.  The conspiracists are utterly oblivious to the moral or emotional implications of expressing their belief.  They are apathetic to the content of their idea.  What is novel to them is that they are the few or sole believers, and every tragedy is simply another opportunity they can grab to style themselves as deep thinkers.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Glom

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2013, 01:31:45 PM »
The irony of ironies is that by blindly following some crank who plays to their psychological needs they are the ones being more the sheeple.

We have looked at this for ourselves and made our own judgement that rain is indeed wet. They just see what pacifies them and submit.

Also, the bigger irony of all the 9/11 conspiracy websites being run by the government as revealed in the South Park episode Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.

Offline Noldi400

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2013, 03:49:41 PM »
Well, yes.  In reality (IMHO) the HBs are the ones who follow something that resembles a religion.  They've been shown a few pictures, listened to some fervent proponents, and accepted something for which there is not a shred of tangible evidence.

Apollo as religion?  I don't know of any religion upon whose precepts we have built actual functioning, practical machines that do exactly what they're designed to do.
"The sane understand that human beings are incapable of sustaining conspiracies on a grand scale, because some of our most defining qualities as a species are... a tendency to panic, and an inability to keep our mouths shut." - Dean Koontz

Offline nomuse

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2013, 04:18:27 PM »
Well, yes.  In reality (IMHO) the HBs are the ones who follow something that resembles a religion.  They've been shown a few pictures, listened to some fervent proponents, and accepted something for which there is not a shred of tangible evidence.

Apollo as religion?  I don't know of any religion upon whose precepts we have built actual functioning, practical machines that do exactly what they're designed to do.

Mmmmm.  I just had a vision of some alternate universe in which Cargo Cult-built airplanes could actually fly...



(Actually... if I am remembering correctly, that's part of the story of Warhammer 40K.  The Orks don't actually know any engineering, but they believe so fervently their ramshackle contraptions could actually work...they do.)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 04:20:47 PM by nomuse »

Offline raven

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2013, 04:54:52 PM »
As a tabletop gamer, I can confirm that is the basic truth of the matter.
It helps that some Orks have a built in instinctual programming of how to bodge things together, whether machines, in the case of Mekboys or other Orks, in the case of Mad Doks.

Offline ka9q

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2013, 08:05:10 PM »
that's part of the story of Warhammer 40K.  The Orks don't actually know any engineering, but they believe so fervently their ramshackle contraptions could actually work...they do.)
I think Galaxy Quest had much the same premise. And it was a very clever and funny one, too.

Offline raven

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2013, 11:04:18 AM »
that's part of the story of Warhammer 40K.  The Orks don't actually know any engineering, but they believe so fervently their ramshackle contraptions could actually work...they do.)
I think Galaxy Quest had much the same premise. And it was a very clever and funny one, too.
Maybe in the novelization, I never read it, but I don't remember it being explained in the film. Which was one of the best Star Trek films out there. ;D

Offline ka9q

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2013, 06:12:45 AM »
I'm referring to the basic plot device of the movie: the Thermians, lacking any notion of lying or of fictional entertainment, see the Galaxy Quest TV episodes, build the depicted technology, and actually make it work.

And yes, it was one of the best Star Trek films. Even if William Shatner says he can't tell who Tim Allen's character was supposed to represent.

Offline Count Zero

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2013, 10:49:01 AM »
In the late '80s Harry Turtledove wrote a story called "Half the Battle".  It follows generations of humans rebuilding civilization after world war whatever.  Archaeologists continually unearthed documentation to show what technology the ancients (us) were capable of.  Since "knowing it can be done is half the battle," engineers create their own machines,  airplanes, etc.  At the end of the story, in a ship based on blueprints they found, they are ready to go to warp speed.
"What makes one step a giant leap is all the steps before."

Offline AtomicDog

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2013, 11:00:16 AM »
It has always been an article of faith with me that if we "knew for a fact" that faster than light travel was possible,  that we'd find a way to invent it.
"There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death." - Isaac Asimov

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: A few simple questions for conspiracy theorists
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2013, 11:07:47 AM »
It has always been an article of faith with me that if we "knew for a fact" that faster than light travel was possible,  that we'd find a way to invent it.

We know for a fact that we can go to the Moon. Yet we haven't been back.....
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov