Author Topic: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?  (Read 71012 times)

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2014, 09:15:45 AM »
OK, lets do a line-by-line on this one.


Clearly, four recent NASA astronauts -- plus a bevy of Apollo boys -- claim outright that you cannot SEE stars from the vacuum of low earth orbit (or cislunar space re Apollo, same thing), which is clearly a LIE. Let's start with that and leave the faked imagery for later.
Your video states (regarding the Jerry Lodriguss APOD image) "This is a NASA composite". As previously said, it's not a NASA composite. Can you please acknowledge your error?

The sentence continues "..depicting what the heavens would look like from Earth if we had no atmosphere". Please re-read the narrative in the image footer. It states "If you could turn off the atmosphere's ability to scatter overwhelming sunlight, today's daytime sky might look something like this" (emphasis mine). In reality, the Sun's corona is only visible to the human eye during a total eclipse. In addition, the disc is taken through a hydrogen-alpha filter and the features shown are invisible to the human eye. Please acknowledge your misinterpretation of the image notes. From this alone it's clear that you are labouring under a massive misapprehension. What are your views on this please?

You then go on to say "The same view that an astronaut would have on a spacewalk". Do you still think this, in light of your errors above?

You then go on to accuse Leroy Chiao of lying because the Sun washes out the starlight when on the Sunside of the orbit. Can you please explain this? I'm also interested in hearing your explanation of how you think that the human eye can see stars (typically at something like magnitude 3-6) when the Sun (magnitude -26) is in the same field of view. Your "evidence" that he is lying is the "NASA image". Do you accept that a far more likely explanation is that you have based your supposition on erroneous thinking and that you haven't the foggiest idea of what you are talking about?

You then go on to make another accusation of lying based on "the darkest black you could imagine". You assume that "the darkest black" means "no stars". Clearly you have never heard of Olber's Paradox, have you? You repeat the same error when quote-mining the next astronaut.

You then to mention something called the "black sky lie". What colour do you think it would be?

That'll do for the moment. I couldn't watch much more of your rubbish video without my intestine jumping up and throttling my brain to escape the stupidity.


The question has nothing to do with the usual BS that stars do not register on film.

Who ever said that? how exactly do you think that pictures of stars are taken if they don't register on film??

We are only talking about what these NASA people say they can SEE in space.
No you are not. You are talking about your erroneous interpretation of those words and your, frankly laughable, attempts to twist them to fit your warped world-view.

By the laws of physics and simple common sense, these people are lying. I ask, Why?
I'd love to hear you going through your understanding of the laws of physics....

Allancw is baaaack.

Clearly.


So, any chance of an acknowledgement of any of this, or will you do what you did the last time and refuse to accept that your interpretation was incorrect?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 09:19:58 AM by Zakalwe »
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline dwight

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2014, 10:28:07 AM »
I really hope allan explains what the LEM propellers could rotate against in order to provide lift. It has always raised an eyebrow or two whenever I watch the televised launch.
"Honeysuckle TV on line!"

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2014, 10:56:51 AM »
I doubt he will come back, he will just Gish Gallop and then resort to personal insults like last time.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline dwight

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2014, 11:00:18 AM »
Bummer. I guess I'll never solve the propeller riddle...
"Honeysuckle TV on line!"

Offline Echnaton

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2014, 12:43:21 PM »
OK, lets do a line-by-line on this one.

Nice reply.  Your patience is commendable. 
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2014, 01:01:44 PM »
plus a bevy of Apollo boys -- claim outright that you cannot SEE stars from the vacuum of low earth orbit (or cislunar space re Apollo, same thing),

I meant to add this piece earlier.

Whats your source for this claim Allan?

How do you balance that claim against the fact that both the CSM had a system that optically took readings from the stars to update the navigation system? So rather than your ridiculous claim that they have said that they could not see the stars, they regularly observed them during the flight and used that information to update the navigation systems.
The LM also had an optical alignment system, which allowed the astronauts to confirm it's orientation. So again, not only could they see the stars in space they could also see them from on the Lunar surface.
What they couldn't do was see the stars if the Sun was in the same field of view. No different to being on earth...after all, do you see the stars in the daytime?


Nice reply.  Your patience is commendable.

Thank you. Though I came very close to suffering the same fate as Poet Master Grunthos the Flatulent when watching that YT video....  ;D
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 01:05:21 PM by Zakalwe »
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Noldi400

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2014, 02:01:17 PM »
I notice that Allen - along with a host of his ilk - seem to always start with the assumption that Armstrong's remarks about the visibility of stars were the "original lie", the party line that other astronauts have had to toe.

They seem to ignore completely the Gemini missions, which tested out (among many other things that would be necessary for Apollo) celestial navigation by star sightings, which (AFAIK) were always done on the night side of the orbit because the stars were not visible while on the day side.

Stars are relatively dim and are difficult or impossible to see when there's a bright light source in your field of view, whether it's the sun, the day side of earth, the lunar surface, or a streetlight.   There's no one simple yes or no answer to the question "Are stars visible from space?".

The refusal of HBs to accept or even comprehend the obvious seems to me to either be deliberate or a result of a totally incomprehensible level of arrogant stupidity.

And, sadly.....




(If you can't view the imbedded video, the link follows.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhcycjVui8
"The sane understand that human beings are incapable of sustaining conspiracies on a grand scale, because some of our most defining qualities as a species are... a tendency to panic, and an inability to keep our mouths shut." - Dean Koontz

Offline allancw

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2014, 02:54:24 PM »
Let's keep it simple to make misdirection a little more difficult. The first 'astronaut' says: 'When you're in space and you're looking into deep space and you're in the sun side of the orbit, the sunlight washes out all the star light so you can't see any stars, just like here on earth.'

Do I have to even say it? I guess so. No atmosphere. The sunlight does not wash out anything, starlight included.

'ALL THE STARLIGHT.' How much clearer could he be that you cannot see stars AT ALL, even looking away from the sun. 'JUST LIKE HERE ON EARTH?'

If you're going to say I took him out of context, please include some possible context that would mean he is not babbling an absurd untruth.

Just stick to that one thing. He is saying that in the vacuum of space, the sunlight washes out ALL the starlight. Explain via the laws of physics what exactly is 'washing out all the starlight.'

He is not saying that his eyes cannot pick out the stars because of the bright sunlight; he is saying 'The SUN' is doing the work, the washing... of star light.

Try to stick to that.

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2014, 03:02:20 PM »
First, read this:

http://www.cns.nyu.edu/~david/courses/perception/lecturenotes/light-adapt/light-adapt.html

Understanding how the human eye works will answer your questions.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2014, 03:10:26 PM »
Let's keep it simple to make misdirection a little more difficult.
Try to stick to that.


Hmm, lets not.
Do you now acknowledge that your supposition is based on an image that you mistakenly believe to be a NASA image?
Also, that what is in the image is not what can be seen by eye? Rather it is an artful interpretation, composed of data from many different sources and not a true representation of what is visible to the human eye?

Your proposition is based on a misunderstanding. Before you start hand-waving and a gish-gallop let's hear if you are still prepared to continue with your claims first.
 


"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline allancw

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2014, 03:12:32 PM »
Let's keep it simple to make misdirection a little more difficult. The first 'astronaut' says: 'When you're in space and you're looking into deep space and you're in the sun side of the orbit, the sunlight washes out all the star light so you can't see any stars, just like here on earth.'

Do I have to even say it? I guess so. No atmosphere. The sunlight does not wash out anything, starlight included.

'ALL THE STARLIGHT.' How much clearer could he be that you cannot see stars AT ALL, even looking away from the sun. 'JUST LIKE HERE ON EARTH?'

If you're going to say I took him out of context, please include some possible context that would mean he is not babbling an absurd untruth.

Just stick to that one thing. He is saying that in the vacuum of space, the sunlight washes out ALL the starlight. Explain via the laws of physics what exactly is 'washing out all the starlight.'

He is not saying that his eyes cannot pick out the stars because of the bright sunlight; he is saying 'The SUN' is doing the work, the washing... of star light.

Try to stick to that.

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2014, 03:17:10 PM »
Um, posting the same thing again won't change the replies Allan.

Are you going to respond to what has been said?
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2014, 03:19:22 PM »
Let's keep it simple to make misdirection a little more difficult.
Try to stick to that.


Hmm, lets not.
Do you now acknowledge that your supposition is based on an image that you mistakenly believe to be a NASA image?
Also, that what is in the image is not what can be seen by eye? Rather it is an artful interpretation, composed of data from many different sources and not a true representation of what is visible to the human eye?

Your proposition is based on a misunderstanding. Before you start hand-waving and a gish-gallop let's hear if you are still prepared to continue with your claims first.


I too know the art of Ctrl-C & Ctrl-P   ;D

Heck, I could do this all night!
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Allan F

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2014, 03:20:33 PM »
Ok - I'll bite. Please get yourself a car, a few candles and a dark night. Put the candles a few miles apart, but viewable from your present position. Then start the car, put on high beam and place yourself RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE CAR - look into the distance and try to pick out the candles.

This experiment is very much the same situation the astronauts would face when in orbit and the sun is shining on them.
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Why are NASA astronauts (still) lying?
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2014, 03:20:55 PM »
He's posting this garbage on Cluesforum, where apparently he is best buds with Simonshack.

His posts there are as stupid as this one is here.

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1711

I'm also guessing he hasn't read any of the LEO Apollo transcripts where they checked out stellar navigation techniques, for example

https://history.nasa.gov/ap09fj/006_day01_rev005.htm

All that will happen is he'll report back to his lunatic friends how yeah he showed over at Apollohoax blah blah shills blah blah and my weren't they rude and so defensive, almost as if they're in on it and are scared the truth will come out...

Buzz - where are you? It's clobbering time...