Author Topic: Starship!  (Read 56979 times)

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #120 on: December 31, 2020, 04:38:25 AM »
Oh, and if there was any doubt that Elon is quite, quite mad...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1344327757916868608
Quote
We’re going to try to catch the Super Heavy Booster with the launch tower arm, using the grid fins to take the load
:o

That'll make for an interesting YouTube stream!  :o
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Offline bknight

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #121 on: December 31, 2020, 02:08:33 PM »
Oh, and if there was any doubt that Elon is quite, quite mad...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1344327757916868608
Quote
We’re going to try to catch the Super Heavy Booster with the launch tower arm, using the grid fins to take the load
:o

There are quite a lot of challenges, but it isn't  impossible to slow a ship to landing speed and then latch a stand alone platfom then gently lower to the "ground"
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Offline molesworth

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #122 on: December 31, 2020, 07:57:29 PM »
Oh, and if there was any doubt that Elon is quite, quite mad...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1344327757916868608
Quote
We’re going to try to catch the Super Heavy Booster with the launch tower arm, using the grid fins to take the load
:o

There are quite a lot of challenges, but it isn't  impossible to slow a ship to landing speed and then latch a stand alone platfom then gently lower to the "ground"
The fine art of understatement...  ;D
Days spent at sea are not deducted from one's allotted span - Phoenician proverb

Offline Peter B

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #123 on: December 31, 2020, 08:27:52 PM »
Oh, and if there was any doubt that Elon is quite, quite mad...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1344327757916868608
Quote
We’re going to try to catch the Super Heavy Booster with the launch tower arm, using the grid fins to take the load
:o

Any illustrations of exactly what he has in mind?

Offline raven

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #124 on: December 31, 2020, 11:13:58 PM »
Maybe I'm too nice to the guy, but a lot of the stuff he comes up with sounds like public spitballing, made public to keep the interest high and the conversation flowing.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #125 on: January 01, 2021, 12:24:12 AM »
Maybe I'm too nice to the guy, but a lot of the stuff he comes up with sounds like public spitballing, made public to keep the interest high and the conversation flowing.

There's no question Elon Musk has revitalized enthusiasm for U.S. space enterprise.  He doesn't have shareholders or a board of directors at SpaceX to answer to, so he can play a unique role in that respect even if a substantial part of it is Harold Hill theatrics.  The pre-existing space infrastructure wasn't largely concerned with public interest or enthusiasm.  It didn't need it.  And I don't mean that arrogantly; we knew who our customers were and they knew who we were, and no one needed to advertise during the Superbowl.  Capturing the imagination of the American public was only a small part of the business model, so you got only the most basic public outreach efforts.

The problem is that the enthusiasm quickly became partisan.  It was characterized as SpaceX succeeding where other companies failed due to incompetence and lazy stagnation, which wasn't especially fair.  This doesn't mean everyone is entitled to share in the glory of one company's conspicuous innovation.  But a more properly directed surge in public enthusiasm could have led to more aggressive changes in the NASA funding model and a more credible change in marketing posture among existing companies to appeal differently to corporate customers.  So keeping the conversation flowing doesn't have to be rabidly adversarial.  Inevitably someone will say, "That's so bold!  Why isn't ULA thinking of similar things?"
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline cjameshuff

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #126 on: January 01, 2021, 06:50:48 PM »
I just skimmed the video of Starship assembly, so everyone please forgive me if I'm misrepresenting it.  But it looked like some parts of assembly and stacking were being done using general-purpose construction equipment.  Naturally almost none of that would be acceptable in the development of any other crewed space vehicle, if done under the auspices of a NASA contract to do so.

Genuine question... why?

If a $5 million "general purpose" crane meets and exceeds all the specifications required to do the job, why is it necessary to design, build or buy a $50 million "special purpose" crane to do the exact same job?

Special-purpose equipment may be designed to make the process safer or more efficient, or to bake in a known level of reliability.  A general-purpose mobile crane can handle a lot of different tasks, but may not have a level of precision that a special-purpose crane can provide.

But...

SpaceX’s answer appears to be to tailor their design and process to accommodate commercial equipment rather than vice versa.

Note that the big expensive SLS Vertical Assembly Center (which had to be rebuilt after they got it crooked the first time) didn't keep them from dropping a tank dome.

SpaceX isn't entirely avoiding custom equipment. They're building a gantry crane into the building they're constructing for putting together the booster, and will probably go back and install similar cranes elsewhere. They just didn't move forward with the crane construction until they had actual experience stacking Starship components to tell them what would be most useful. Their approach could be summarized as "try it and see what we really need", adding automation and special fixtures as needed. Musk seems to be very carefully avoiding the mistakes he made at Tesla with the Model 3, like the "fluff bot" he's mentioned that gave them so much trouble handling fiberglass mats which it turned out could be eliminated entirely from the design.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #127 on: January 02, 2021, 02:24:25 PM »
Oh, and if there was any doubt that Elon is quite, quite mad...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1344327757916868608
Quote
We’re going to try to catch the Super Heavy Booster with the launch tower arm, using the grid fins to take the load
:o

Any illustrations of exactly what he has in mind?


Well, here is Scott Manley's take on catching boosters...

If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline molesworth

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #128 on: January 29, 2021, 05:00:36 PM »
I don't know if it was prompted by the delay in SN9's launch, but we're now going to have two Starships on the pad at the same time!


Days spent at sea are not deducted from one's allotted span - Phoenician proverb

Offline VQ

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #129 on: January 29, 2021, 05:16:44 PM »
Well, here is Scott Manley's take on catching boosters...

More or less arbitrary to link:
https://xkcd.com/1244/

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #130 on: January 29, 2021, 06:18:33 PM »
I hope someone makes a poster out of that.  I see there's some SNAFU with the FAA over the SN9 launch, so I guess we have to wait.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline molesworth

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #131 on: February 02, 2021, 05:13:52 PM »
Another decent flight with a failure at the end.  This time it looks like an engine failed to start properly (with several "coughs" trying to ignite) and another RUD.  It's a got job they've got another six or seven on the production line for further testing  ;)



eta : still can't figure out how to attach images correctly :)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 05:18:48 PM by molesworth »
Days spent at sea are not deducted from one's allotted span - Phoenician proverb

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #132 on: February 02, 2021, 05:25:19 PM »
Another decent flight with a failure at the end.  This time it looks like an engine failed to start properly (with several "coughs" trying to ignite) and another RUD.

Yeah, I wasn't sure what the landing startup sequence was supposed to look like so I didn't know what to look for.  The sputtering was clearly evident though.  The commentator I heard said the pitchover would happen using two motors and then terminal descent would be on one motor.  The pitch error at the end was significant and indicated they didn't get enough pitch moment in time, which would be consistent with an underperforming motor.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #133 on: February 02, 2021, 05:33:30 PM »
Looks like some kind of debris came out of the engine bay shortly before it crashed. Might be unrelated, but it probably shouldn't do that.
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Offline bknight

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #134 on: February 02, 2021, 07:38:27 PM »
I think that the two flights are similar that they both lacked proper fuel to the engines.  I saw a definirte  green huele comino off the engine indicating it was consumming itself.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan