Author Topic: Starship!  (Read 10367 times)

Offline Jeff Raven

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2020, 05:58:13 PM »
It’s like the rockets that were envisaged in the days of Flash Gordon.

Hadn't thought about it until you said it, but yeah, it really does.

Just FYI, if anyone has access to the Roku Channel, they have the Buster Crabbe Flash Gordon serials from the late 30s and early 40s on there.

Offline bknight

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2020, 07:50:09 PM »
Those were fun to watch Saturday at the movies.
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Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2020, 06:21:28 PM »
If you wondered what SN8 was thinking, watch this:

https://youtu.be/aQ0PP0BoOpo
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2020, 07:09:56 PM »
If you wondered what SN8 was thinking, watch this:

OMG, why didn't I think of that?
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2020, 07:10:57 PM »
Looks like an accident in the assembly building, and SN9 has tipped over and hit the wall.

Somewhere on a thumb drive in a box somewhere I have my manufacturing blooper reel.  I sympathize.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline raven

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2020, 10:41:51 PM »
LunarOrbit, that was absolutely brilliant! I nearly laughed myself out of my chair. Thanks so very much for sharing  ;D

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2020, 09:01:17 AM »
I wish I could take credit for it, but I found it on Twitter. It's perfect.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth.
I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth.
I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- Neil Armstrong (1930-2012)

Offline cjameshuff

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2020, 11:58:19 AM »
Musk gave it a 30% chance of full success, so I think that the first flight exceeded his expectations. He expects losses and failures, in fact he positively encourages them. SN9 is almost ready to go and up to SN15 are in various stages of construction.

Yeah, they probably expected to take 2-3 flights to get what they got from this one. That's at least a couple months of assembling, testing, and cleaning up prototypes.

And yes, it was done a year later than Elon hoped. It was also done with a much higher fidelity test article. In the meantime, they've already test fired vacuum-optimized and high-thrust versions of the engine that they weren't even planning to develop for the first orbital versions of Starship. Nobody's disappointed with the pace they're managing.

The airliner comparison makes no sense. This isn't an airliner trying for an altitude record.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2020, 12:44:21 PM »
Musk gave it a 30% chance of full success, so I think that the first flight exceeded his expectations. He expects losses and failures, in fact he positively encourages them. SN9 is almost ready to go and up to SN15 are in various stages of construction.

Yeah, they probably expected to take 2-3 flights to get what they got from this one. That's at least a couple months of assembling, testing, and cleaning up prototypes.

And yes, it was done a year later than Elon hoped. It was also done with a much higher fidelity test article. In the meantime, they've already test fired vacuum-optimized and high-thrust versions of the engine that they weren't even planning to develop for the first orbital versions of Starship. Nobody's disappointed with the pace they're managing.

The airliner comparison makes no sense. This isn't an airliner trying for an altitude record.


Besides which, a new design of airliner on its first ever test flight goes nowhere near 41,000 ft.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2020, 02:38:24 PM by smartcooky »
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Offline cjameshuff

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2020, 12:48:57 PM »
Looks like an accident in the assembly building, and SN9 has tipped over and hit the wall.  No word from SpaceX, but it could mean either a delay for repairs or bringing SN10 forward instead.  Either way it's probably going to hold things up for a while.

https://twitter.com/BocaChicaGal/status/1337424248260993024

The stand apparently partially collapsed. They've got it straightened out with a crane...some visible damage to the fins. Steel can be patched up in ways you can't do with aluminum or composites...still might not be worth the time to do so. On the other hand, this might be an opportunity to make SN9 the first named Starship: Only Slightly Bent.

Here's SN8: https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=44124348109%40N01&sort=date-taken-desc&text=spacex&view_all=1

(And they've just landed a F9 first stage for the 69th time, the 7th time for this particular first stage.)

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2020, 02:47:47 PM »
Looks like an accident in the assembly building, and SN9 has tipped over and hit the wall.  No word from SpaceX, but it could mean either a delay for repairs or bringing SN10 forward instead.  Either way it's probably going to hold things up for a while.

https://twitter.com/BocaChicaGal/status/1337424248260993024

The stand apparently partially collapsed. They've got it straightened out with a crane...some visible damage to the fins. Steel can be patched up in ways you can't do with aluminum or composites...still might not be worth the time to do so. On the other hand, this might be an opportunity to make SN9 the first named Starship: Only Slightly Bent.

Oh, that is very good. You should tweet Elon and suggest it!

ETA: And if SN9 does not do as well as SN8 did, they could rename it "Funny, It Worked Last Time"
« Last Edit: December 13, 2020, 03:11:29 PM by smartcooky »
► What you can assert without evidence, I can dismiss without evidence
► When you argue with idiots you risk being dragged down to their level and beaten with experience.
► Conspiracism is a shortcut to the illusion of erudition

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2020, 03:25:41 PM »
Maybe "Honest Mistake",  "Reasonable Excuse" or "Teething Problems"
Or if there's recriminations to be had "A Series Of Unlikely Explanations" or "Excuses And Accusations"
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Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2020, 04:14:53 PM »
Musk gave it a 30% chance of full success, so I think that the first flight exceeded his expectations. He expects losses and failures, in fact he positively encourages them. SN9 is almost ready to go and up to SN15 are in various stages of construction.

Yeah, they probably expected to take 2-3 flights to get what they got from this one. That's at least a couple months of assembling, testing, and cleaning up prototypes.

And yes, it was done a year later than Elon hoped. It was also done with a much higher fidelity test article. In the meantime, they've already test fired vacuum-optimized and high-thrust versions of the engine that they weren't even planning to develop for the first orbital versions of Starship. Nobody's disappointed with the pace they're managing.

The airliner comparison makes no sense. This isn't an airliner trying for an altitude record.


Besides which, a new design of airliner on its first ever test flight goes nowhere near 41,000 ft.

You realise this is not the first flight of SS?

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2020, 04:29:12 PM »
Note that in September 2019 this flight was promised to be in October 2019.

At that time the flight was supposed to be to 18 km.  This has been gradually whittled down, first to 15 km then 12.5 km.

This flight was no higher or faster than a commercial airliner.

While useful data and experience would have been gained, the flight ended with the destruction of a testbed and the loss of three reusable engines.

This is still very early days for "Starship".  There is a long way to go before it is orbital capable.

Musk always overpromises on dates.  That’s something that’s been known from early F9 days, to the point where I don’t pay attention to announced dates.  They also had to take some time to figure out how to actually build the thing - the first few iterations were pretty rough.

"Over promising to this degree" is lying.  Knowingly stating that a test article with poorly constructed mockup fins and nose cone will fly to 18 km in two months is lying.  Saying that an orbital flight will happen with six months.  And most people believe it. 

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My understanding is that they reduced altitude to avoid having to deal with high level winds, which seems a reasonable precaution.  And for this test altitude only mattered to the degree they could test the belly flop. 

Maybe.  But was this announced at the time or is it after the event rationalisation?  Musk does a lot of that, see the rationalisation that the failure of the Mk1 SS (the samed one that was going to flyto 18 km in two months) during an initial tanking test.

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As for the engines, they’re chunking them out at a decent clip now.  The next prototype is already built and will be rolled to the pad next week, and the next flight could happen by early January.  There are at least six more prototypes in various stages of construction, so they have plenty of hardware to chew through as they start dialing this in.

At the rate they are destroying them, they need to.  Eleven test articles have been made to date.  Of these three have been retired, one never completed, one was subjected to destructive testing.  The remainder were destroyed.accidently

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Yes, they’re not orbit-capable yet and won’t be until the first booster is built, which is happening right now. 

There are many steps to do before orbital capability.  Alot more than have been done so far.

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But, damn -
  • New engine cycle, using
  • A new fuel, and
  • A new mode of flight

How does that justify continued lying and fatuity?

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and came this close to pulling it off on the first try.

With a little less haste and a little more care it might have succeeded.

If this had been any other rocket from any other organisation, would people here be calling this a great success(as opposed to a partial one)?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2020, 04:32:45 PM by Dalhousie »

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Starship!
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2020, 04:32:11 PM »
As for it not going higher or faster than a commercial airliner, I've got to say "so what"? It's flown higher and faster than the SLS boondoggle. It also flew higher and faster than this thing....

You have completely missed my point.  People are crowing over this being a high altitude test, when it it isn't.  As fpor SLS, I am confident it will achieve orbit a lot sooner than this thing.