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Apollo Discussions => The Hoax Theory => Topic started by: Dead Hoosiers on June 24, 2020, 03:53:03 AM

Title: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Dead Hoosiers on June 24, 2020, 03:53:03 AM
I don't know whether we went to the moon or not. I wish I could know for sure.  Normally these videos trying to debunk the moon landing bore me, but this one is more interesting than others I've seen. Why haven't we gone back?  Or have we?

[url]https://myinnerengineering.com/2019/07/25/video-how-and-why-we-went-to-the-moon-what-actually-happened/[/url) 

Sorry, i can't remember how to post videos, but you can cut and paste.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Jason Thompson on June 24, 2020, 04:01:47 AM
I don't know whether we went to the moon or not. I wish I could know for sure.

Then the question is why do you doubt it and what would convince you? Without answers to these questions it is hard to discuss.

Quote
Why haven't we gone back?

Because it is ridiculously expensive and no country in the world has been willing to do it. Public support for a government-funded crewed lunar exploration program dried up after we beat the Russians and after the TV showed hours and hours of (mostly) faceless spacesuited men walking around a grey barren landscape picking up rocks and soil. I've seen it all, it's dull enough even for a space exploration enthusiast like me, and I wasn't one of the generation being asked to fund it with my taxes.

Quote
https://myinnerengineering.com/2019/07/25/video-how-and-why-we-went-to-the-moon-what-actually-happened/

Generally it is easier to discuss a video if you can provide any specific questions arising from it. If I sit through a 45 minute video, how am I to know which parts of it caught your interest?

What is it, specifically, that makes you doubt the authenticity of the Apollo lunar landings?
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Dead Hoosiers on June 24, 2020, 05:12:23 AM
There is never before seen footage (supposedly),  showing that the transmissions were edited and not live, James Web (sp) resigning days before the mission and the astronauts resigning shortly afterwards,  the astronauts' apparent reluctance to be interviewed, and just the way the whole thing was debunked is very believable. 

I posted this thinking people would enjoy debunking some or all of it. 
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Miss Vocalcord on June 24, 2020, 05:52:23 AM
There is never before seen footage (supposedly),  showing that the transmissions were edited and not live, James Web (sp) resigning days before the mission and the astronauts resigning shortly afterwards,  the astronauts' apparent reluctance to be interviewed, and just the way the whole thing was debunked is very believable. 

I posted this thinking people would enjoy debunking some or all of it.
That is Bart Sibrel's "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon" , it has already been fully debunked many times (just search this forum/google), recently e.g. by RanB on this forum:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/kxpweYalUd4
https://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=1743.0
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: smartcooky on June 24, 2020, 07:44:35 AM
There is a saying "its so old, it's new again"; which really means, its so old that the moon hoax noobs aren't old enough to have seen it all before, so they think its new.

It is as clear an indication as any that there is nothing new in moon hoax nutjobbery, that the only thing anyone brings up these days is the same tired old rubbish that has been repeatedly debunked by numerous debunkers over the last 30+ years





Oh, and did I hear someone mention Bart Sibrel? Oh goody!!!

While I abhor violence, I will always make an exception for this little gem...  :)


(https://www.dropbox.com/s/nza5fhft4fquhoz/BartPunch_256Color.gif?raw=1)





 
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Jason Thompson on June 24, 2020, 08:03:50 AM
There is never before seen footage (supposedly),

Never before seen by the producer of the video doesn't equate to never before seen by anyone.

Quote
showing that the transmissions were edited and not live,

Nope, showing something the producer does not expect to see and therefore he leaps to the conclusion it was faked.

Quote
James Web (sp) resigning days before the mission

When and why people resign from positions in large projects is open to many interpretations. The ones alleging foul play are usually based on a naive belief in how one 'should' behave held by people who would never be in such a position and cannot possibly judge.

Quote
and the astronauts resigning shortly afterwards,

If one sets a goal and achieves it, what does one do next? Some stay on and keep going, others look for other challenges. Again, the naive belief in how they 'should' behave is the sole basis for assuming suspicion.

Quote
the astronauts' apparent reluctance to be interviewed,

Reluctance to be interviewed by whom? By the producer of a video that alleges they are frauds? Yes, I'd be reluctant in their place.

Quote
and just the way the whole thing was debunked is very believable.

It's supposed to be believable. That doesn't make it right.

Quote
I posted this thinking people would enjoy debunking some or all of it.

We would, but as I said, I prefer specific things rather than just 'here's a video, pick it to pieces'. As has been pointed out already, this is actually such an old one we've almost forgotten how often it has been debunked.

I'll add one more aspect to it: Bart Sibrel is afraud and a liar who cares not one jot for truth but only for making a name for himself. Two specific things that lead me to that conclusion are:

1: He made a video called 'Astronauts Gone Wild', in which he 'invites' the Apollo astronauts to swear on a bible that they really walked on the Moon. By this time they all knew who he was and what he was out to prove, so naturally he got short shrift from them. He spun a whole video out of their reactions, alleging that their response to him, and their unwillingness to swear on the bible, proves they have something to hide. However, three astronauts did swear on his bible they walked on the Moon. Did that change his view? Not one jot. The ones who refused are afraid to lie in the face of God, while the ones who did swear are so unscrupulous that they are even lying in the face of God. His sole aim to is promote the hoax rubbish and make a name for himself by doing so.

2: I contacted him myself and asked about one of his claims: specifically the 5-to-1 superiority in manned spaceflight time he claims the Russians had. I asked him at what point they had this superiority, and he gave a window of time that encompassed Project Gemini. I asked him if the figures included Project Gemini. He said yes. I asked him how that could be since Project Gemini massively increased US time in space over and above Russian flights, and that there were no corresponding flights by the USSR during that period. He refused point blank to name his source and said I would have to buy his video to find the answer. Once I had him at a point he could not answer he shifted to marketing. Again, he only wants to make money.

See here (https://apollohoax.proboards.com/thread/650/barts-5-russian-superiority-claim) for a summary

He's a charlatan, plain and simple.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: JayUtah on June 24, 2020, 09:39:12 AM
I posted this thinking people would enjoy debunking some or all of it.

It's been done, and not just by us here.  Here's the first of seven or eight pages where I review it.  Click the "next" buttons at the bottom to go to each new page.  Sorry in advance for the missing photos.

http://www.clavius.org/bibfunny1.html

If you want to skip ahead where I talk about the supposedly secret footage, that's here: http://www.clavius.org/bibfunny1.html
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Dead Hoosiers on June 24, 2020, 10:45:08 AM
Thanks Miss Vocalchord and Jay Utah. I searched the site for mb raja, not being familiar with the Sibrel name. I'll check it out.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: onebigmonkey on June 24, 2020, 11:05:29 AM
About that 'unseen footage'...

Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: LunarOrbit on June 24, 2020, 11:32:07 AM
Bart Sibrel is why I got into debunking Apollo conspiracy theories almost 20 years ago. My first foray into this world was in 2001 after Fox aired their "Conspiracy Theory: Did we land on the Moon?" show, which Sibrel was interviewed for (I think he might have been a producer for it too). He was hawking his "documentary" in the Fox forums at the time and I had a number of interactions with him.

So yeah, most of us have been aware of his video for a long time. You might find more discussion of it on our old forum (https://apollohoax.proboards.com/), but even that would have been years after Sibrel became irrelevant.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Zakalwe on June 24, 2020, 03:31:48 PM
There is never before seen footage (supposedly),

Don't be lazy...have another look.

showing that the transmissions were edited and not live,
Even if they were (and they weren't) all that would show is that that weren't live. So what?

James Web (sp) resigning days before the mission
And?
People retire all the time.


the astronauts resigning shortly afterwards
Don't be lazy. Have you bothered to see how many retired and how many didn't?  John Young worked in NASA for 42 years and retired in 2004. Kinda shoots that theory to pieces, now doesn't it?

the astronauts' apparent reluctance to be interviewed
Which astronauts? If you mean the Apollo 11 astronauts do you even realise that they went on a 38 day tour of the world, visited 22 countries and gave multiple interviews over those 38 days. Don't be lazy and do some research.

just the way the whole thing was debunked is very believable. 
The missions have never been de-bunked. Not once.  Despite there been tens of thousands of pieces of evidence supporting the missions as having happened exactly as described, not one single piece of evidence has ever been shown to be at odds. That's in spite of some of the evidence (the samples, for example) being forensically examined by scientists and specialists from all over the world.
On the other side, no conspiracy theory has ever stood up to even the slightest inspection. Not once, in 50 years of trying has any conspiracy nutjob ever produced a single piece of documentation or evidence that incontrovertibly showed the missions to be falsified in anyway.

So tell me again how the "whole thing was debunked". Let me guess- you can't.


I don't know whether we went to the moon or not.

Don't be so lazy. Go and do a bit of research and make an effort to educate yourself.

but this one is more interesting than others I've seen.

 It's an old video from a taxi-driver who was trying to make a few bucks. It's been kicking around for donkey's years. Looks like you can't even be bothered to put any effort in, now doesn't it?


Why haven't we gone back?

Here's one for you. When did we first descend to the deepest part of the ocean? How long was it before we went again? Does this mean that the first mission was a hoax?

https://myinnerengineering.com

Why would you think that a website full of the crank conspiracy theories of one headbanger is a reputable source? That tells me more about you and how you "learn" things that you will ever know. And, of course, that crank website has a 5G conspiracy theory, naturally.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Zakalwe on June 24, 2020, 03:35:33 PM
<sigh>
Today's moon landing hoax headbangers are just so lazy, aren't they? At least *some* of the guys from years ago made a bit of an effort, even though they were all totally incorrect. At least a few of them bothered to put a bit of a shift in and didn't just regurgitate someone else's nonsense that they saw on YouTube.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Dead Hoosiers on June 24, 2020, 06:52:46 PM
How dare you, you pompous little jacanapes? You interrupted my reading of Jay  Utah's in depth article posted above (which is actually very informative), and believe you me, no lazy person would undertake to do that...it would be too difficult, like asking questions instead of spewing boring, off target, hateful garbage. You didn't even have the wit to notice I was seeking information and didn't claim the video had merit.  That's because I'm not a scientist, so I turned to the scientists on this board for information. I don't know what you are. Well, actually I do, but I don't want to get banned for my first discussion in 7 years.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Jeff Raven on June 24, 2020, 09:46:44 PM
How dare you, you pompous little jacanapes? You interrupted my reading of Jay  Utah's in depth article posted above (which is actually very informative), and believe you me, no lazy person would undertake to do that...it would be too difficult, like asking questions instead of spewing boring, off target, hateful garbage. You didn't even have the wit to notice I was seeking information and didn't claim the video had merit.  That's because I'm not a scientist, so I turned to the scientists on this board for information. I don't know what you are. Well, actually I do, but I don't want to get banned for my first discussion in 7 years.

You weren't seeking information, as you didn't ask any specific questions, only vague ones. As Miss Vocalcoard said, this is just a copy of Sibrel's poorly done video. I'm surprised you didn't recognize it, especially as the narrator has a rather distinctive voice.

I would also give a friendly suggestion to avoid even the appearance of personal attacks, including name-calling, which you hinted at. The regulars here are incredibly helpful as well as patient, and LO also is willing to forgive honest mistakes, but there's a limit. If you've been here for 7 years, you know that if you post genuine questions or points of view, especially if they are well-reasoned and specific, you will get good responses from those that know.

If this was an attempt at humor/satire/sarcasm, it missed, at least in my opinion.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Halcyon Dayz, FCD on June 25, 2020, 03:37:14 AM
James Web (sp) resigning days before the mission
James Webb retired October 7 1968, his 62nd birthday, 4 days before the start of Apollo 7, which is not the mission.
More relevant here would be the upcoming presidential elections in November.

the astronauts resigning shortly afterwards,
"Shortly"
Yet another misleadingly vague term.

The Apollo 11 crew specifically retired "shortly" after their mission because they knew they would never be allowed to fly in space again.
They were national heroes, to valuable as symbols to risk their lives.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Dead Hoosiers on June 25, 2020, 04:11:29 AM
Ok Jeff, I’ll try to be as nice as possible considering that you didn’t read my initial post with any particular care.  You read into it and jumped to a wrong conclusion--that I was attempting to debunk the moon landing.  I thought I had worded my post carefully (you have to around here) so as not to give the impression that I was a moon landing hoax conspiracy theorist (MLHCT).  I had searched the old board because I didn’t want to bring up something that had already been done, but mistakenly thought the author of that video had a different name.  I’d never heard of Seibel (because I’m not an MHLCT), nor have I ever watched more than a short clip on the “hoax,” again, because I’m not an MHLCT.  I would have been satisfied to have been told this Seibel guy had previously been debunked with maybe a nugget of info tossed in as to why. Jay Utah’s Clavius link was a goldmine I never expected.
As further proof that you were careless in reading my posts, I said I hadn’t posted here in 7 years, not that I have been posting for 7 years.  I left off due to the general incivility of far too many people here, as demonstrated by Zakalwe.  Do you think “jackanapes” is a bad word?  Is it worse than him calling me lazy no fewer than 6 times?  He apparently also thinks I’m a man—too lazy to read my profile I guess. He was in a hurry.  Why don’t you scold him or do you think it’s presumptuous for a newbie such as yourself to take on the task of chastising other board members in the name of a moderator?  From what I remember of LO, it would take more than my giving Zakalwe the little set down of which he stood in such crying need to issue me a warning.
Here’s some friendly advice from me.  Not everyone who asks a question is attacking you, and if you jump down their throats you deprive yourself of a teaching opportunity.  How far would you have gone in school if your teachers had treated you with such hostility when you asked a question?  .

Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Dead Hoosiers on June 25, 2020, 04:22:37 AM

More relevant here would be the upcoming presidential elections in November.


What do you mean?
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Miss Vocalcord on June 25, 2020, 05:10:11 AM

More relevant here would be the upcoming presidential elections in November.


What do you mean?
The reason for the retirement of James Webb on October 7 1968. James Webb commented on it himself:

Quote
Webb resigned his job as NASA chief in 1968, a year before the first manned lunar landing. The front pages reported that he was bitter about budget cuts by the Johnson administration, increasingly beset with the funding of the Vietnam war. Sen. Margaret Chase Smith of Maine claimed that LBJ had "pulled the rug out from under James E. Webb."

"It wasn't a question of money," Webb said, revealing a conversation with Lyndon Baines Johnson that gave him a bit of political foresight nine months ahead of the times.

"President Johnson told me in July 1967 that he wasn't planning to run for another term. Yes, he told me that. I don't know what he told other people, but that's what he told me. He also said he was telling Texas Gov. John Connally. And he said he was going to make a public announcement in August. But, of course, it took him until the next March before he actually did.

"I knew that whoever got elected, either Humphrey or Nixon, wouldn't be happy with me. They might keep me on, but not be happy. By resigning, I could at least show them that it wasn't child's play, what the nation was trying to do with these big rockets."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1981/09/24/james-webb-and-nasas-reach-for-the-moon/253a284e-bdd9-480f-ae0b-19a96ca7d961/

(and just to be sure, the above quote is from September 24, 1981, twenty years before "A funny thing.." (from you OP) was released.)
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Zakalwe on June 25, 2020, 05:10:33 AM
How dare you, you pompous little jacanapes? You interrupted my reading of Jay  Utah's in depth article posted above (which is actually very informative), and believe you me, no lazy person would undertake to do that...it would be too difficult, like asking questions instead of spewing boring, off target, hateful garbage. You didn't even have the wit to notice I was seeking information and didn't claim the video had merit.  That's because I'm not a scientist, so I turned to the scientists on this board for information. I don't know what you are. Well, actually I do, but I don't want to get banned for my first discussion in 7 years.

Oh diddums, did the nasty people ask you difficult questions when you were innocently JAQing off (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions)? Poor widdle you.  ::)

Now, dry your eyes and have a go at addressing the points in your narrative that have been shown lacking.
Start with addressing those and we can have an adult conversation.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Obviousman on June 25, 2020, 05:11:22 AM
James Web (sp) resigning days before the mission
James Webb retired October 7 1968, his 62nd birthday, 4 days before the start of Apollo 7, which is not the mission.
More relevant here would be the upcoming presidential elections in November.

the astronauts resigning shortly afterwards,
"Shortly"
Yet another misleadingly vague term.

The Apollo 11 crew specifically retired "shortly" after their mission because they knew they would never be allowed to fly in space again.
They were national heroes, to valuable as symbols to risk their lives.

The same thing happened to John Glenn, where he was told quite bluntly that he would fly in space again because he was a national hero and they could not afford to lose him.

At least he got the chance again with the Shuttle.

The situation with Apollo 11 was pretty much like this: they were all too valuable to lose but Armstrong in particular. Collins was offered the command of his own flight but turned it down. To the best of my knowledge, Buzz wasn't offered another flight.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Zakalwe on June 25, 2020, 05:26:21 AM
Ok Jeff, I’ll try to be as nice as possible considering that you didn’t read my initial post with any particular care.  You read into it and jumped to a wrong conclusion--that I was attempting to debunk the moon landing.  I thought I had worded my post carefully (you have to around here) so as not to give the impression that I was a moon landing hoax conspiracy theorist (MLHCT).  I had searched the old board because I didn’t want to bring up something that had already been done, but mistakenly thought the author of that video had a different name.  I’d never heard of Seibel (because I’m not an MHLCT), nor have I ever watched more than a short clip on the “hoax,” again, because I’m not an MHLCT.  I would have been satisfied to have been told this Seibel guy had previously been debunked with maybe a nugget of info tossed in as to why. Jay Utah’s Clavius link was a goldmine I never expected.
As further proof that you were careless in reading my posts, I said I hadn’t posted here in 7 years, not that I have been posting for 7 years.  I left off due to the general incivility of far too many people here, as demonstrated by Zakalwe.  Do you think “jackanapes” is a bad word?  Is it worse than him calling me lazy no fewer than 6 times?  He apparently also thinks I’m a man—too lazy to read my profile I guess. He was in a hurry.  Why don’t you scold him or do you think it’s presumptuous for a newbie such as yourself to take on the task of chastising other board members in the name of a moderator?  From what I remember of LO, it would take more than my giving Zakalwe the little set down of which he stood in such crying need to issue me a warning.
Here’s some friendly advice from me.  Not everyone who asks a question is attacking you, and if you jump down their throats you deprive yourself of a teaching opportunity.  How far would you have gone in school if your teachers had treated you with such hostility when you asked a question?  .

Nearly got a full house on my Moon Landing Conspiracy Theory Bingo card there.
"Im not a conspiracy theorist". Yes, you are as you believe that it can be debunked easily.
"I'm being bullied for Just Asking Questions" No, you're not.

You ARE lazy, because you clearly cannot be bothered to do your own research. Instead you expect the burden of learning to be passed onto others. Nobody bears the onus of educating you or any other person that wanders in. Lots of people do enjoy sharing knowledge (myself included), however they do not carry an obligation to do so. If you really want to learn then don't come to the discussion with the bias of assuming that there was a hoax (you demonstrated that you have that bias when you say things such as "the astronauts' apparent reluctance to be interviewed")
.
However, I do apologise if my response was brusque and robust. In my defence I've seen far too many people doing what you appear to be doing, which is, coming in with the tactic of Just Asking Question, getting indignant when called out on it, crying foul and then either getting banned or going off in a huff. It's a very familiar tactic that's been demonstrated many, many times over the years and it usually ends up with the same result after pages of all-to-familiar pearl-clutching and false righteous indignation. My brusqueness tends to short-cut pages of tiresome nonsense and gets to the inevitable outcome.

If you really want to learn then come with an attitude of wanting to learn. If there's something that you don't understand then say "I don't understand X, Y and Z" Can you help me", rather than bringing a near-twenty years old piece of tawdry crap video from a known villain. Lots of people will be more than willing to help.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Jason Thompson on June 25, 2020, 06:14:32 AM
Dead Hoosiers, this is precisely why I suggested you should come with specifics, not just a link to a video. Posting specifics removes any ambiguity about your intent and your position, and avoids the kind of response that you have seen precisely because we have over and over again had hardcore hoax believers and conspiracy theorists just stick up a video and say 'what do you think?', and yes in many cases they have done it deliberately to provoke a meta-discussion about how they were responded to rather than anything of actual substance, or to obtain a wide range of replies so they could ignore all the debunkings they can't address and cherry pick the one bit they think they can respond to by pointing out perceived flaws or saying 'hey, I wasn't asking about that so why are you wasting your time on it?' I've been here for about 18 years now, and I have seen it over and over and over again. It is tiresome and it does mean I give short shrift to anyone else who does it.

For myself, I suggested specifics because you linked to a 45 minute video with no further comment. Were you really expecting me to sit for over an hour looking at it and compiling responses without any real idea what it was you found compelling in it? Why should I devote that much time to it for your benefit? If you asked specifics questions, or pointed to a time reference where an argument was made that you were particularly interested in I could have answered, because frankly this is so old I have a lot of the answers in my head anyway. People here are happy to answer questions and help those who are unsure to understand in more depth, but we don't have endless time to sit through videos with no clear idea of why.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Obviousman on June 25, 2020, 08:41:20 AM
It is a fair point: if you have doubts, what is the most compelling argument you have heard?

Take your time and think about what really makes an impact on you and how you feel in this matter.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Zakalwe on June 25, 2020, 09:39:42 AM
He apparently also thinks I’m a man—too lazy to read my profile I guess.

Your gender is irrelevant, but just to be nit-picky....I made no reference to our  gender at all. If you were referring to this line
Quote
At least *some* of the guys from years ago made a bit of an effort
then i would refer you to this:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/guy
I was referring to the group of hoax believers.

However, that debate is also irrelevant and is also the MO of many hoax believers. Pop in, post a deliberately vague question and then start to cherry-pick at some of the answers to try and find a different angle to make a claim that the OP is being victimised. This is then used in an attempt to show that their interlocutors can't answer the initial vague question.
It's a form of "sealioning" and again, we've all seen it a million times before.

(https://rationalwiki.org/w/images/2/24/Sealions.png)
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Peter B on June 25, 2020, 09:58:03 AM
I don't know whether we went to the moon or not. I wish I could know for sure.  Normally these videos trying to debunk the moon landing bore me, but this one is more interesting than others I've seen. Why haven't we gone back?  Or have we?

[url]https://myinnerengineering.com/2019/07/25/video-how-and-why-we-went-to-the-moon-what-actually-happened/[/url) 

Sorry, i can't remember how to post videos, but you can cut and paste.

G'day Dead Hoosiers

Welcome back.

Could you satisfy my curiosity as to why you're presenting this movie to us, asking all these questions, as though they're new to you?

Ta.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Halcyon Dayz, FCD on June 25, 2020, 11:26:37 AM
The reason for the retirement of James Webb on October 7 1968. James Webb commented on it himself:

Quote
Webb resigned his job as NASA chief in 1968, a year before the first manned lunar landing. The front pages reported that he was bitter about budget cuts by the Johnson administration, increasingly beset with the funding of the Vietnam war. Sen. Margaret Chase Smith of Maine claimed that LBJ had "pulled the rug out from under James E. Webb."

"It wasn't a question of money," Webb said, revealing a conversation with Lyndon Baines Johnson that gave him a bit of political foresight nine months ahead of the times.

"President Johnson told me in July 1967 that he wasn't planning to run for another term. Yes, he told me that. I don't know what he told other people, but that's what he told me. He also said he was telling Texas Gov. John Connally. And he said he was going to make a public announcement in August. But, of course, it took him until the next March before he actually did.

"I knew that whoever got elected, either Humphrey or Nixon, wouldn't be happy with me. They might keep me on, but not be happy. By resigning, I could at least show them that it wasn't child's play, what the nation was trying to do with these big rockets."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1981/09/24/james-webb-and-nasas-reach-for-the-moon/253a284e-bdd9-480f-ae0b-19a96ca7d961/

(and just to be sure, the above quote is from September 24, 1981, twenty years before "A funny thing.." (from you OP) was released.)
Webb talks about it in this interview from 1969, starting at page 32. [PDF]
http://www.lbjlibrary.net/assets/documents/archives/oral_histories/webb-j/webb.pdf
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Jeff Raven on June 25, 2020, 01:47:07 PM
Nearly got a full house on my Moon Landing Conspiracy Theory Bingo card there.
"Im not a conspiracy theorist". Yes, you are as you believe that it can be debunked easily.
"I'm being bullied for Just Asking Questions" No, you're not.
...


Yup, DH's post was classic Baiting Language 101. I've read quite a number of similar threads here and elsewhere.

Respectfully and humbly suggest that, before this turns into another one of those pages-long threads, that this be the end of responses. Else, as Zakalwe stated, this has a strong likelihood of becoming another case of sealioning. (great term and comic - hadn't seen that one before)
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: smartcooky on June 25, 2020, 04:39:24 PM
Nearly got a full house on my Moon Landing Conspiracy Theory Bingo card there.
"Im not a conspiracy theorist". Yes, you are as you believe that it can be debunked easily.
"I'm being bullied for Just Asking Questions" No, you're not.
...


Yup, DH's post was classic Baiting Language 101. I've read quite a number of similar threads here and elsewhere.

Respectfully and humbly suggest that, before this turns into another one of those pages-long threads, that this be the end of responses. Else, as Zakalwe stated, this has a strong likelihood of becoming another case of sealioning. (great term and comic - hadn't seen that one before)

Yup. The forum does not need another "cambo" thread.

This will be my last post to this thread
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Dead Hoosiers on June 25, 2020, 05:23:05 PM

G'day Dead Hoosiers

Welcome back.

Could you satisfy my curiosity as to why you're presenting this movie to us, asking all these questions, as though they're new to you?

Ta.

Hi Peter, I remember you too.  Maybe you can recall that nearly all my posts on the old board were in the Other Conspiracies section and not on the moon landing.  I may have asked the odd question here and there but I certainly never debated it. It's not an area of particular interest to me. Probably better than 95% of my discussions were on the topics of religion and modern morals and ethics with some silly stuff tossed in. Since you asked why I posted the video, I'll tell you.

A friend sent me a link to that video and said it was proof that the government lied to us, and I didn't know how to answer her, so I came here to see if anyone had seen it.  I knew I would find something here that would counter the info in the video. Then I planned to get back to her with what I learned and tell her not to believe everything she reads without question.  It was that simple. I didn't have "all  these questions" but felt pressured to come up with something because it was being demanded of me, when I actually questioned the validity of entire video.  I just wanted an opinion supporting the moon landing. I don't expect anyone to watch a 45 min. video they have already seen and debunked. But since people say this video is so well known, a glance would have sufficed to tell them that this was old stuff and that they didn't need to watch further.  All they had to do was say so.    Maybe provided a link to where it was previously discussed. It looks like people didn't even bother to look at any of it before pelting me with questions.  Most of the video was new to me, since the hoax conspiracy isn't my baga and I think it's unreasonable to expect me to know all about what was posted and discussed on this forum in years gone by and to just assume I'm some kind of troll that they caught.

So what I'm going to do is send that Clavius link provided by Jay Utah to my friend and be done with the whole thing.  Too much time has been spent on this.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Jason Thompson on June 25, 2020, 05:47:22 PM
A friend sent me a link to that video and said it was proof that the government lied to us, and I didn't know how to answer her, so I came here to see if anyone had seen it.

Then why didn't you just say so to begin with? Your initial post is very much giving the impression that you found the content believable yourself.

This is, again, just the kind of thing we see from conspiracy theorists. Open with a vague post with a link, then when pressed on their reasons provide an explanation which would, had it been provided at the start, have bypassed all the questioning and suspicion, but by that point they are so into complaining about their perceived unfair treatment the whole discussion becomes that about that instead.

Quote
It was that simple. I didn't have "all  these questions" but felt pressured to come up with something because it was being demanded of me,

It was requested, not demanded.

Quote
It looks like people didn't even bother to look at any of it before pelting me with questions.

You were not pelted with questions. I did not look at the video, for reasons I have already explained. I aksed you what was in it that made you question the vaidity of the landings, as your initial post implied.

Quote
So what I'm going to do is send that Clavius link provided by Jay Utah to my friend

That is certainly a good course of action. I hope your friend can be convinced of the validity of Apollo that way. The site is a real goldmine, as you said.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: gillianren on June 26, 2020, 10:40:26 AM
Why doesn't your friend do their own research?  Honestly, anyone whose acceptance of the Moon landings is swayed by a single video needs to learn critical thinking skills.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Zakalwe on June 26, 2020, 02:36:42 PM
Why doesn't your friend do their own research?  Honestly, anyone whose acceptance of the Moon landings is swayed by a single video needs to learn critical thinking skills.

If they had critical thinking skills then, by default, they wouldn't be conspiracy theory believers. The Dunning_Kruger effect is strong in them.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Dead Hoosiers on June 27, 2020, 12:12:55 AM
I have 2 dogs. One of them is a 15 yr-old chihuahua,m who's deaf.  When anyone comes to the door, the younger dog will run over to the door and start barking.  The chihuahua won't do anything unless she notices the other one barking and then she'll run to the door and start yapping too, even though she hasn't a clue what's going on.  The funniest thing is that she'll keep on barking long after the the the delivery person has left and the other one has shut up.  I think she just wants to make sure I notice she's on the job.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: onebigmonkey on June 27, 2020, 04:20:09 AM
You start a thread in classic wide-eyed innocent JAQ-off "asking or a friend" style, get all sniffy when people shred it, then post a clumsy, painfully obvious metaphor that applies equally to the university of youtube hoax nuts out there.

Given you've seen how that plays out in the time youve been lurking, how exactly did you think that was going to go down?

Any chance you've considered the responses you were given to the questions you asked, or are you determined to make this all about you?

If your dog starts yapping randomly for no reason and jumping at shadows that aren't there, shoot it.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Zakalwe on June 27, 2020, 07:02:59 AM

If your dog starts yapping randomly for no reason and jumping at shadows that aren't there, shoot it.


(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/cb/9f/4ecb9ff7f1bd55212e185aec11881c16.jpg)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: jfb on June 27, 2020, 09:36:01 AM
I don't know whether we went to the moon or not. I wish I could know for sure.

Physical samples, miles of film, and recent imagery of the landing sites are not sufficient?  What further evidence would you require?

Quote
  Normally these videos trying to debunk the moon landing bore me, but this one is more interesting than others I've seen. Why haven't we gone back?  Or have we?

“We” as in America have sent unmanned missions back to the Moon since Apollo (Clementine, Lunar Prospector, Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, GRAIL).  LRO has imaged the Apollo landing sites. 

China’s sent several surface probes and rovers, including one on the far side.

We haven’t sent people back because nobody’s managed to convince Congress to pay for it.   That may change with the Artemis program, but frankly I don’t expect it to survive the election in November.

SpaceX has plans for a private mission called Dear Moon, which will send people around the Moon but not land on the surface.  Not sure what the timeline is on that.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Zakalwe on June 27, 2020, 12:47:47 PM

SpaceX has plans for a private mission called Dear Moon, which will send people around the Moon but not land on the surface.  Not sure what the timeline is on that.

It's a Musk timeline, so it will be, errr, elastic..... ;D
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: bknight on July 01, 2020, 03:04:06 PM
Serves me right for not opening the web site a few days ago.  I can't add anything to what the others have said, so I will add just one line:
If one believes in any video by Bart then that person does not have critical thinking in his/her repertoire.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Abaddon on July 02, 2020, 04:07:48 PM
I only briefly looked, but once I recognised the sibrel crapfest, I needed no more than a glance.

But it is just now occurring to me that this Raja guy gave it a new title and did not credit Sibrel. Seems like blatant plagiarism which really gets under Sibrel's skin.

So tempting to stir that pot.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Kiwi on July 23, 2020, 09:54:04 AM
I don't know whether we went to the moon or not. I wish I could know for sure.  Normally these videos trying to debunk the moon landing bore me, but this one is more interesting than others I've seen. Why haven't we gone back?  Or have we?

Video how and why we went to the moon what actually happened (https://myinnerengineering.com/2019/07/25/video-how-and-why-we-went-to-the-moon-what-actually-happened/) 

Hi Dead Hoosiers

I'm a bit late but...

In that video at 0:24:45 Sibrel shows a movie of two shadows crossing a road, and the narrator says, "...then all shadows, regardless of the landscape, will run parallel with one another and never intersect, as shown by this example."

In this case, sensible people who are interested in the moonlanding "hoax theories" can run their own little check by pausing the video and carefully placing the edges of some A4 paper along the shadows to see if they are indeed parallel, as Sibrel seems to claiming.

Did your friend have the good sense to do that check? Did you?

It's well worth doing it, because it tells us something about Sibrel's honesty and reliability.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Zakalwe on July 23, 2020, 11:08:40 AM
The old parallel shadows nonsense.

I must have faked this image.......

(https://i.postimg.cc/V66rR7bF/IMG-20181224-144433.jpg)
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Ranb on July 23, 2020, 10:42:56 PM
I don't know whether we went to the moon or not. I wish I could know for sure.  Normally these videos trying to debunk the moon landing bore me, but this one is more interesting than others I've seen. Why haven't we gone back?  Or have we?
Hello,

I have a critique of Sibrel's video on this forum here; https://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=1743.15
If you like, please view my 15 minutes video and let me know what yiou think of my response to Sibrel's claims.

Ranb
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: smartcooky on July 24, 2020, 01:01:50 AM
The old parallel shadows nonsense.

I must have faked this image.......

(https://i.postimg.cc/V66rR7bF/IMG-20181224-144433.jpg)

And plenty more examples that show Sibrel to be a lying POS

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vsp381bsz892gy/Shadow2.jpg?raw=1) (https://www.dropbox.com/s/x6sul5nffisqwiq/Shadow3.jpg?raw=1)

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/4x4gm8scg0du0jt/Shadow99.jpg?raw=1)
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Obviousman on July 24, 2020, 08:02:35 PM
But Jack White said that any images that show lines are not parallel must be faked!
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: jfb on July 25, 2020, 07:59:12 AM
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/4x4gm8scg0du0jt/Shadow99.jpg?raw=1)

What we are saying is that HBs lack perspective, then.
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: raven on July 26, 2020, 03:42:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Rso6eLb.jpg) Didn't take this photo, but it illustrates the point well enough, no?
Title: Re: M B Raja - hoax video
Post by: Zakalwe on July 26, 2020, 05:35:51 AM

What we are saying is that HBs lack all perspective, then.
Fixed that for you.  ;D