Author Topic: Radiation in space - an layman's essay  (Read 5892 times)

Offline Allan F

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1009
Radiation in space - an layman's essay
« on: January 07, 2023, 06:35:50 PM »
I'm currently working on a very basic text on the problems with radiation in space and some of the ideas presented by hoax believers, like the VAB, GCR and issues with photographic film. Any sources I should be aware of?
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline Ranb

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 266

Offline molesworth

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 349
  • the curse of st custards
Re: Radiation in space - an layman's essay
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2023, 11:25:40 AM »
I thought Bob Braeunig had a section on his site covering radiation, but it appears he's removed the Apollo hoax debunking section from his site. A quick check on the Internet Archive turns up one page with a bit of info - https://web.archive.org/web/20161124220537/http://www.braeunig.us/space/index.htm

That references a couple of other possibly useful pages - http://www.braeunig.us/space/69-19.htm and  http://www.wwheaton.com/waw/mad/mad19.html

There's also the Clavius site - http://www.clavius.org

And finally, created by a friend at Glasgow Uni, a handy list of links - https://www.astro.gla.ac.uk/users/martin/moonhoax/

Hopefully you can find some of what you're looking for amongst that.
Days spent at sea are not deducted from one's allotted span - Phoenician proverb

Offline Allan F

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1009
Re: Radiation in space - an layman's essay
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2023, 12:38:51 PM »
I'm currently looking for spectra of bremsstrahlung from various atoms. It's my understanding, the more complex the electron cloud, the more possible wavelengths the atom can emit. And the higher energy photons are possible from the heavier atoms. Also I need to confirm that the bremsstrahlung is omnidirectional - IE not confined to a specific direction (I know one electron dropping back to its unexcited state sends out one photon) like a lasing event. This to confirm one can safely ignore bremsstahlung from the lighter atoms, since it could not carry enough energy to penetrate to the cabin.

Yes, Bob Braeunig has some good stuff.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2023, 12:42:26 PM by Allan F »
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline Dalhousie

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 614
Re: Radiation in space - an layman's essay
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2023, 01:33:49 AM »
I'm currently working on a very basic text on the problems with radiation in space and some of the ideas presented by hoax believers, like the VAB, GCR and issues with photographic film. Any sources I should be aware of?

The Artemis results will be out soon I assume.  In the meantime these papers may be of interest.  I have included interplanetary, Mars orbit, and Mars surface data as people often claim that radiation makes such missions impossible:

Dachev et al. 2017 “Overview of the ISS Radiation Environment Observed during the ESA EXPOSE-R2 Mission in 2014–2016” Space Weather, 15, 1475–1489. (Gives the unshielded value in low Earth orbit, 466 mSv/year

Berger et al. (2017) “DOSIS & DOSIS 3D: radiation measurements with the DOSTEL instruments onboard the Columbus Laboratory of the ISS in the years 2009–2016”  Journal of Space Weather and Space Climate 7, A8 (Gives the shielded value inside the module (30 g/cm2 shielding) as 236 mSv/yr)

Semkova et  al. 2018 Charged particles radiation measurements with Liulin-MO dosimeter of FREND instrument aboard ExoMars Trace Gas Orbiter during the transit and in high elliptic Mars orbit.  Icarus 303, 53–66 (unshielded values of 730 mSv/yr in interplanetary space during solar min)

Zeitlin et al. 2013. “Measurements of energetic particle radiation in transit to Mars on the Mars Science Laboratory.” Science 340, 1080.  (Lightly shielded values of 662 mSv/year in interplanetary space during solar max)

Guo et al. 2015 “Variations of dose rate observed by MSL/RAD in transit to Mars.”  Astronomy and Astrophysics 577, A58.  (Lightly shielded values of 639 mSv/yr in interplanetary space during solar max)

Gale crater surface radiation: Hassler et al. 2014. “Mars’ surface radiation environment measured with the Mars Science Laboratory’s Curiosity rover.” Science 343 (6169). (Unshielded value on Mars surface of 234 mSv/year)

Zhang et al. 2020.  “First measurements of the radiation dose on the lunar surface” Science Advances 6 : eaaz1334. (Unshielded values on lunar far side of 500 mSv/yr)

For comparison, values for high radiation locations on Earth

Ramsar (Iran): Durante & Manti 2008 “Human response to high-background radiation environments on Earth and in space” Advances in Space Research 42 ,999–1007  (400 mSv/year)

Guarapari beach (Brazil) Durante & Manti 2008 again  (788 mSv/year).

I can send these to you if you want them


Offline Allan F

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1009
Re: Radiation in space - an layman's essay
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2023, 03:51:33 PM »
That would be very helpful. How much data is it? I suppose you'd be sending them by email?
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline Dalhousie

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 614
Re: Radiation in space - an layman's essay
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2023, 05:41:02 PM »
That would be very helpful. How much data is it? I suppose you'd be sending them by email?

Durante & Manti is a review paper, the other are the primary publications.  Email would be best I think.  Or I could do multiple posts here with attachments, if you prefer.

Offline Allan F

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1009
Re: Radiation in space - an layman's essay
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2023, 06:17:33 PM »
I'm pretty sure only my gmail would be able to handle it. My initials, the word "trade" and the hometown of H. C. Andersen in front of the "at".

Obfuscated for antispam-reasons.
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline Dalhousie

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 614
Re: Radiation in space - an layman's essay
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2023, 10:36:46 PM »
I'm pretty sure only my gmail would be able to handle it. My initials, the word "trade" and the hometown of H. C. Andersen in front of the "at".

Obfuscated for antispam-reasons.

test message sent

Offline Allan F

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1009
Re: Radiation in space - an layman's essay
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2023, 01:23:38 PM »
Thanks again. I'll be a while to digest it. But I have time on my hands these months at work.
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.