ApolloHoax.net

Apollo Discussions => The Hoax Theory => Topic started by: benparry on November 18, 2017, 07:40:25 AM

Title: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 18, 2017, 07:40:25 AM
Hey Everybody. i'm sure its nonsense but has anybody any thoughts on the 'theres a stagehand in the astranauts visor reflection' video that's currently doing the rounds on youtube. It looks like its been photoshopped to me but ....
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: Trebor on November 18, 2017, 08:59:36 AM
Hi benparry,
I don't suppose you know which image it is?
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 18, 2017, 09:14:58 AM
Hey yeah this is the video which refers to it. in my opinion its just another astronaut. for me the shadow is important its of a square indicating a back pack
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: onebigmonkey on November 18, 2017, 12:08:19 PM
Yep, it's the other astronaut, complete with PLSS, visor and camera taking the photo.

(https://i.imgur.com/SZBlfrm.jpg)

The EVA was broadcast on live TV, including from the location of the photograph and no stage hands were shown. The EVA also featured live images of Earth that can be dated precisely, so no. it's not on a stage set.

e2a: The image is AS17-141-21608
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: Halcyon Dayz, FCD on November 18, 2017, 12:12:58 PM
Versions of this claim go back to at least 2008.
So it isn't just bunk, it is recycled bunk.

Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 18, 2017, 12:42:00 PM
ah ok cool. well another one bites the dust lol cheers guys
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: bknight on November 19, 2017, 08:21:52 AM
ah ok cool. well another one bites the dust lol cheers guys
Welcome to the forum.  Most of the images that show "inconsistencies" are misapplication of a little bit of knowledge applied to a mindset of "I know it was faked/photo shopped" and viola we have a conspiracy.  The best way to approach any image  is to look at the high res ones in the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal(ALSJ)  and much is apparent. 
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/frame.html
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 19, 2017, 12:20:18 PM
Hey Bknight. I know I have debated quite a few times with people on a couple of facebook forums. some listen and of course some don't lol
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: Count Zero on November 19, 2017, 01:22:38 PM
Some Hoax Believers (HBs as they're known around here) have tried to claim that the figure in the above image is not wearing a backpack.  However, his shadow clearly shows that he is.  We simply can't see it on the figure because he is facing us.
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: bknight on November 19, 2017, 02:44:02 PM
Hey Bknight. I know I have debated quite a few times with people on a couple of facebook forums. some listen and of course some don't lol
Not seen anything on Facebook, as I have no account, however YT is ripe with people beating their chest in a futile effort to show they "know" what happened and have pointed out one of the largest hoaxes of all time.  Unfortunately they don't know a fraction of what they think they know.  Debating them is like nailing jello to a wall, changing directions, claiming superior knowledge etc.
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 21, 2017, 07:03:14 AM
agreed agreed.
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: gwiz on November 21, 2017, 07:07:24 AM
Phil Plait (The Bad Astronomer) has a go at debunking this:
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/no-thats-not-a-stagehand-in-an-apollo-astronaut-photo
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: bknight on November 21, 2017, 07:37:05 AM
From that article
Quote
their (HB's) "proof" boils down to misreading photos, misunderstanding science, misunderstanding engineering, misunderstanding politics, and/or outright deception in order to mislead the public
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: Count Zero on November 21, 2017, 07:59:28 AM
Or, as our own chrlz puts it:

"The Apollo deniers stock-in-trade is to feed on the non-experts  their non-expert opinions  and their hatred of authority/USA/anyone-who-succeeds-in-life; with a view towards either their five minutes of fame (only amongst the gullible)  an attempt to make a buck by selling books or videos  or the genuine but sadly deluded belief that they are onto something."
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: twik on November 21, 2017, 09:47:36 AM
Fox appears to be happily resurrecting their moon hoax "just asking questions" position: http://www.foxnews.com/science/2017/11/20/apollo-moon-landing-was-faked-conspiracy-theorists-claim-with-new-photo.html.

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd suspect that their goal was to throw NASA and other respected science agencies into disrepute, thereby enabling them to claim that global warming isn't occurring, and natural disasters are the result of gay marriage.

Let us not forget that the U.S. President eagerly gulps down all the information that Fox puts out.
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: onebigmonkey on November 21, 2017, 12:36:23 PM
I started reading the comments and quickly wanted to bang people's heads into solid things.
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 21, 2017, 02:41:53 PM
after seeing all this only people who want to believe in the theory do lol
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: apollo16uvc on November 23, 2017, 04:11:43 PM
Too bad Fox News, we already know your game.

Let's start:

First off: It is not a video. It is a B/W photo made with a Hasselblad 500EL/M camera.

Secondly: No, the 'video' (actually photo) is not ' Newly discovered ' the photo has been known for a long time.

Third: It is not a new "Discovery" , the hoax theory about this picture is already old.

The claim: The reflection shows a placement hand, someone without PLSS

The photo: AS17-141-21608
(https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-141-21608HR.jpg)
Photo made by Jack Schmitt, shows Gene Cernan. Jack Schmitt can be seen in visor reflection.

Now that we know the photo, we can see if the TV camera was active at that time. After all, this is Apollo 17, so the TV camera was on the LRV.

Yes!:
The astronauts, both clearly with suits: http://apollo17.org?t=165:09:20
Moment the photo was: http://apollo17.org?t=165:16:41

The crop that everyone is talking about:
(https://i.imgur.com/SZBlfrm.jpg)

Let's compare the suit with an astronaut in the same direction:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LYvw7DvGzzU/hqdefault.jpg)

What else do we see? the shadow of Gene Cernan clearly shows the PLSS. The protruding part in the middle of the austronaut is a hand and/or Hasselblad 500EL /M camera.

Example of camera at the top left:
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/AS17-136-20739HR.jpg

For closure, here is a photo made by Gene Cernan who shows Schmitt jacket with the complete suit:

NASA photo ID: AS17-140-21496
TV: http://apollo17.org?t=165:34:53
Photo: https://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo17/hires/as17-140-21496.jpg
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 27, 2017, 12:10:51 PM
thanks guys for all the answers. you may remember me saying that I had debated with a guy about this on FB. well he has created a youtube video all of his own lol here it is. anyone fancy a crack at it
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: bknight on November 27, 2017, 12:27:09 PM
Ah our old nemesis, hunbacked.  He has some very pronounced visual perceptions, look at his video concerning A12 when Pete and Alan were at the Surveyor looking back towards the LM.  He tells you what to expect and then shows you exactly what he describes and has thaudacity to tell everyone no the image didn't "look right",  ka9q has tried vainly to correct his misguided beliefs, to no avail.
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 27, 2017, 02:23:24 PM
I have looked at his video concerning buzz Aldrin in which he lies about buzz not saluting with his right hand when he clearly does. What did you think of this video
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 27, 2017, 02:27:20 PM
Also after I sent to him all of your replies he said to me that the life support system is rectangular and the shadow is square lol
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: Zakalwe on November 27, 2017, 02:51:53 PM
Hunchbacked (Pascal Xavier) is less of a nemesis and more of a card-carrying nutjob. As others have said, he's has demonstrated numerous times that he appears to have serious problems with comprehending simple spatial concepts. I think that his eyes are painted on.... ;-)  ::)

There's absolutely no point in debating with him as he is impervious to change.
The mildly amusing thing is that he tries to debunk David Icke's claims (http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/MoonHoax/Disinfo/Disinfo.HTM) about the shadows being "wrong", yet Hunchbacked uses many of the same arguments in some of his videos.

What.
A.
Weirdo.
 :o
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 27, 2017, 03:03:02 PM
lol really. what did you think of his the shadow is square comment
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: Zakalwe on November 27, 2017, 03:36:14 PM
lol really. what did you think of his the shadow is square comment

The same that I think about all his other drivel. It's arrant nonsense.
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 27, 2017, 04:00:56 PM
lol fair enough. he does seem to be ignorant to his own errors
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: Rob48 on November 28, 2017, 08:46:30 AM
Also discussed on Metabunk here: https://www.metabunk.org/apollo-17-helmet-reflection-shows-an-unsuited-stage-hand.t9264/
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 28, 2017, 01:28:13 PM
ah ok thanks rob. did you happen to have a look at the video I attached of hunbacked. what did you think of his comments
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: bknight on November 28, 2017, 02:03:43 PM
Ben
As others have posted hunchbacked has spatial recognition problems, so just about anything he comments on is pure bunk.  I have debated with him calling him out on his visual perceptions and just laughed me off.
BTW Phil Plait has a nice piece on the A17 visor image
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/no-thats-not-a-stagehand-in-an-apollo-astronaut-photo

The shadow on the ground is of the PLSS, regardless of what he may say about it.  I wouldn't waste too much time on him, as Zakalwe has indicated hunchbacked is hard cored convinced that Apollo was faked, and not much will change his mind.
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: mako88sb on November 28, 2017, 03:43:16 PM
It's pretty hilarious some of the things Hunchbacked comes up with. For instance, he's made the claim in the past that the astronauts were either under the influence of some kind of CIA mind control device or on drugs such as LSD or both at the same time.
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: Zakalwe on November 28, 2017, 05:06:09 PM
Wasn't it Huncgbacked that came up with the cracker that the Buzz and Neil were wearing breathing masks as the interior shots were filmed underwater? All because he thought that the movements of objects in the cabin were "wrong". It takes a special* sort of mind to do those types of mental gymnastics.






*"Special" as in not firing on all cylinders. Not the sharpest tool in the shed. A few slices short of a full loaf. Not capable of emptying pee out of a boot with the instructions written on the heel.
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: benparry on November 29, 2017, 03:18:09 AM
lol oh my lord. fair enough i didnt realise i had found a nut job. even to my inexperienced mind he seems to be very wrong on some basic things.
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: bknight on November 29, 2017, 08:14:03 AM
lol oh my lord. fair enough i didnt realise i had found a nut job. even to my inexperienced mind he seems to be very wrong on some basic things.

And he is an engineer as well at least that is what his diploma indicates.

EDIT:
His diploma is still on the internet.

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/Diplomes/DiplomeOriginal.jpg
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: Zakalwe on November 29, 2017, 11:41:57 AM
lol oh my lord. fair enough i didnt realise i had found a nut job. even to my inexperienced mind he seems to be very wrong on some basic things.

And he is an engineer as well at least that is what his diploma indicates.

EDIT:
His diploma is still on the internet.

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/Diplomes/DiplomeOriginal.jpg

Well, he may have been an engineer once. You only have to look at people like Anders Bjorkmann (Heiwa), Dr. Patrick Tekeli (fattydash/Dr. Socks/a thousand other sock puppet accounts) or Neil Baker (https://www.independent.com/news/2013/dec/12/former-ucsb-employee-neil-baker-sentenced-probatio/) to see how physical or mental illness can turn someone into a hoax nut.
Title: Re: Apollo 17 Visor Reflection
Post by: bknight on November 29, 2017, 12:41:20 PM
lol oh my lord. fair enough i didnt realise i had found a nut job. even to my inexperienced mind he seems to be very wrong on some basic things.

And he is an engineer as well at least that is what his diploma indicates.

EDIT:
His diploma is still on the internet.

http://www.angelfire.com/moon2/xpascal/Diplomes/DiplomeOriginal.jpg

Well, he may have been an engineer once. You only have to look at people like Anders Bjorkmann (Heiwa), Dr. Patrick Tekeli (fattydash/Dr. Socks/a thousand other sock puppet accounts) or Neil Baker (https://www.independent.com/news/2013/dec/12/former-ucsb-employee-neil-baker-sentenced-probatio/) to see how physical or mental illness can turn someone into a hoax nut.
I agree 100% being an engineer myself, it pains me to consider Pascal Xavier and Neil Baker engineers.  I don't know about Bjorkmann, isn't he a ship wreck analyzer? Patrick is a medical doctor from memory so he could conceivably be forgiven for not know engineering matters, but not for being a dumbass.