Author Topic: Stars in cislunar space  (Read 22490 times)

Offline dwight

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Stars in cislunar space
« on: July 29, 2012, 06:52:14 AM »
G'day all. I am having a shooting-fish-in-a-barrel discussion with some amature HBs and was trying to get the dark adaption discussion we had here (going in for the kill now). Was that actually here or on the old board. I can't seem to find anything on it and I recall some good explanations. Can someone point me in the right direction?
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Offline ChrLz

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2012, 09:28:01 AM »
These may help... but the answers are scattered in amongst much waffling (fattydash & playdor).  I apologise for immodestly linking to one of my own posts in these..


http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=theories&thread=3335&post=95027
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=theories&thread=3335&post=95053

http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=theories&thread=3198&post=91514
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=theories&thread=3198&post=91555


Is there a particular aspect that you want assistance with - there might be better coverage elsewhere, eg here:

http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/115509-Why-Cernan-saw-stars-and-Armstrong-did-not


ADDED - by the way, this page contains a fair bit of stuff that may be useful.. but again, it's me, strangely taking some potshots at a non-denier at BAUT...  go figure..

http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/115509-Why-Cernan-saw-stars-and-Armstrong-did-not/page4
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 09:46:37 AM by ChrLz »

Offline dwight

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2012, 05:25:56 PM »
Many thanks. That actually contained precisely what I needed. I got my wires crossed thing it was the old board rather than baut.
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Offline Count Zero

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2012, 09:18:52 PM »
Here's another one that might be useful:
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=theories&thread=3198&page=3#91467

I've got a better one, but it's going to take some searching.
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Offline Count Zero

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2012, 11:49:53 PM »
Found it:

http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=theories&thread=887&page=2#24181

This one has a simple experiment that anyone can do for themselves.
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Offline Noldi400

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2012, 10:26:02 AM »
I just finished reading Mike Collin's Carrying The Fire and he comments that during Apollo 11's coast to the moon, it was almost impossible to see stars even with the cabin lights turned down because of sunlight coming in the windows. Just to do navigational star checks, they had to cover all the windows and use the telescope, first maneuvering so that there weren't any reflections from the exterior.

So it was possible to see stars in cislunar space, but you had to work at it, and then you could only see a relatively narrow field-of-view.
"The sane understand that human beings are incapable of sustaining conspiracies on a grand scale, because some of our most defining qualities as a species are... a tendency to panic, and an inability to keep our mouths shut." - Dean Koontz

Offline dwight

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2012, 11:22:16 AM »
That is the thing Noldi, you get it, I get, and the astronauts sure got it. It is just that small bunch of loud-mouthed nut-bars that seem to think it is the very foundation of the lunar hoax. if you feel like weighing in, Just search YT for Neil Armstrong 1970 BBC Interview and look for the comments made by the hoax theorists. Take a swig of vodka before you do. It makes it more bearable and actually funny.
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Offline cjameshuff

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2012, 01:18:13 PM »
I've seen stranger ideas. There's someone on BAUT (er, CosmoQuest now) who evidently thinks there's a conspiracy to cover up the invisibility of stars outside Earth's ionosphere or magnetosphere, that light only travels through vacuum as an invisible plane wave and must be converted to visible transverse waves by ions or electrical charge...apparently involving Compton shifting of x-rays somehow. All the instruments that have seen stars have secretly incorporated "gratings" (presumably diffraction gratings) to do the same thing. The close inspection the Shuttle windows get after each flight? Debris impacts are just an excuse, they're checking the gratings for damage. He thinks the Apollo landings happened, but that the star sightings were done with telescopes equipped with gratings, and that they didn't take any visible-light pictures of the stars because they wanted to hide that they weren't visible, not because they just had something rather more interesting to take pictures of. Oh, but the moon itself is visible in sunlight because of its ionosphere, or something.

He just ignores it when people point out that transverse waves go through vacuum just fine, that plane waves and transverse waves are completely different concepts that are only similar in terminology, that spacecraft regularly image stars from outside Earth's ionosphere (he insists they must have gratings or something), or that such a conspiracy would have to go back centuries and would serve no purpose whatsoever, or any of the other myriad holes in his idea.

Offline Glom

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2012, 03:48:33 PM »
It a mixture of comedy and tragedy when you get HBers who try to justify their position with a word salad that reveals they have no clue about basic physics.  Of course, any HBer doesn't, but the garden variety HBer usually keeps things fairly low key, avoiding the technical detail of physics.  It's those who try to go there that exhibit this most cataclysmic failure.

Offline Noldi400

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2012, 05:21:24 PM »
Quote
Just search YT for Neil Armstrong 1970 BBC Interview and look for the comments made by the hoax theorists. Take a swig of vodka before you do. It makes it more bearable and actually funny.
I've seen it. There's an old saying that a thief thinks everyone else is a thief, and a liar thinks everyone else is a liar. Evidently empty-headed publicity seekers think everyone else is an empty-headed publicity seeker. They honestly don't seem to understand why someone would prefer a quiet private lifestyle.

Speaking of empty-headed publicity seekers, there's (what I believe is) a new page over at AULIS credited to "Aerospace Engineer Xavier Pascal" describing his perceived shortcomings of the AGC. It starts out:

"The author claims that there is much to study in the technical documentation of Apollo and that it is as much stuffed with incoherences and inconsistences as were the TV recordings and the still photographs. The incoherences, as in the imagery, were intentional and designed to blow the whistle – which is now blowing loud and clear." [Emphasis mine.]

Hmmmmm...... sound like anyone we know?
"The sane understand that human beings are incapable of sustaining conspiracies on a grand scale, because some of our most defining qualities as a species are... a tendency to panic, and an inability to keep our mouths shut." - Dean Koontz

Offline dwight

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2012, 06:07:54 PM »
Be great of French records actually mentioned such an engineer.
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Offline ka9q

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2012, 06:25:10 PM »
Quote
There's an old saying that a thief thinks everyone else is a thief, and a liar thinks everyone else is a liar. Evidently empty-headed publicity seekers think everyone else is an empty-headed publicity seeker. They honestly don't seem to understand why someone would prefer a quiet private lifestyle.

aka "psychological projection".

Quote
Speaking of empty-headed publicity seekers, there's (what I believe is) a new page over at AULIS credited to "Aerospace Engineer Xavier Pascal" describing his perceived shortcomings of the AGC.
Yes, that is the real name of our friend Hunchbacked.

Offline theteacher

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2012, 07:36:07 PM »
Quote
There's an old saying that a thief thinks everyone else is a thief, and a liar thinks everyone else is a liar. Evidently empty-headed publicity seekers think everyone else is an empty-headed publicity seeker. They honestly don't seem to understand why someone would prefer a quiet private lifestyle.

aka "psychological projection".

Quote
Speaking of empty-headed publicity seekers, there's (what I believe is) a new page over at AULIS credited to "Aerospace Engineer Xavier Pascal" describing his perceived shortcomings of the AGC.
Yes, that is the real name of our friend Hunchbacked.
http://www.aulis.com/pascal.htm

Why do I get this line at the bottom? There is no end-of-quote code after my text.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 07:39:22 PM by theteacher »

Offline gillianren

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2012, 07:48:57 PM »
Do you make sure to put end-of-quote code after your quotes?  Because if you don't, it'll make your entire post a quote.
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Offline Chew

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Re: Stars in cislunar space
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2012, 08:47:34 PM »
There's an old saying that a thief thinks everyone else is a thief, and a liar thinks everyone else is a liar. Evidently empty-headed publicity seekers think everyone else is an empty-headed publicity seeker.

It's been studied: One Surprising Reason People May Believe Bizarre Conspiracy Theories | Alternet
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 08:49:08 PM by Chew »