Author Topic: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.  (Read 471301 times)

Offline bknight

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2015, 05:32:41 PM »
Looks like lots of proof to me.  But then I am not blind to facts, as it seems Neil is.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Gazpar

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2015, 05:37:45 PM »
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After my painful 2003 epiphany regarding 9-11, I gained the courage to confront my mythological beliefs about the space program and other things. I was confronted with the difficult question, "How do we PROVE we went to the moon?"

Then you claim

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But then I stumbled upon the spacesuit ice sublimators.
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Strangely and absurdly, I found almost nothing. I received almost nothing.
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I got stonewalled when I appealed for information. Absurdly, there were no photographs. Absurdly, there was no video of spacesuits with ice sublimators being tested. Most absurdly, there was no information in any academic-level heat transfer or thermodynamics books.

The information of the PLSS and the sublimator were already public on the internet in the 90`s and way before too.
Are you sure you made a good research? Because something doesnt makes sense here.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 05:43:05 PM by Gazpar »

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2015, 05:40:09 PM »
Very disappointing.
I'm sure that you are used to that feeling....




and yet I don't see any spacesuits being tested in vacuum chambers.

Do you have eyesight problems or are you choosing to ignore the images that I linked to that show exactly that scenario? (that's a rhetorical question by the way....the answer is blatantly obvious)

As Jay pointed out, this guy has been at it for years. He has stated numerous times that the ISS and all the Shuttle eva's are all faked. When it's pointed out to him that the ISS can be seen by eye, he just brushes if off with the ridiculous claim it's nothing more then an uninhabited inflatable.

Oh, I know that. Mr. Baker is as close-minded and wilfully ignorant as they come. I'm enjoying finding some new images though, such as the Schweickart images in the vacuum chamber. That's one of the few redeeming qualities of having hoaxies about....you get to find out new information (not from them, I hasten to add!)
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline bknight

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2015, 05:48:50 PM »

....you get to find out new information (not from them, I hasten to add!)
Not even new claims, new hoax approaches.  There is still the refusal to look and learn, but that isn't new either.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2015, 05:50:34 PM »
The most disappointing are the ones asserting that the information I seek has been presented and yet I don't see any spacesuits being tested in vacuum chambers.

Straw man.  You made two claims.  First you claimed that there was insufficient publicly available information regarding porous plate sublimators to allow someone to determine whether they would work as advertised.  Second, you demanded a particular artifact of a particular form of testing, which you insisted was necessary for someone to rationally determine whether sublimators would work.  With respect to your first claim, it has been shown that copious information is indeed publicly available, and additionally (contrary to your subsequent protest) was available when you allegedly conducted your research.  With respect to your second claim, it has been shown to be based on an irrationally specific expectation.  Do not conflate the rebuttals.

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It's very odd. If NASA went to all of that trouble to manufacture fake video and photos of spacewalks and moonwalks, why didn't they manufacture fake video of spacesuits being tested in vacuum chambers?

Perhaps because they didn't anticipate your personal obsession.  You demand we accept your judgment that certain artifacts of testing, if genuine, should be casually producible.  Yet you fail to explain why an organization so apparently otherwise concerned with perpetrating a convincing hoax should omit the fabrication of an artifact deemed so important.  Your claim is inconsistent.

Further the Apollo 17 LM egress testing video should suffice.

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Why release video of spacesuits in swimming pools but none in vacuum chambers?

You insinuate that NASA's choice of publication for casual interest is indicative of their overall archival holdings for other purposes, such as serious historical research or compliance investigations.  You are the claimant.  You are responsible for assertively seeking what you deem should exist.  Noting what NASA chooses to emphasize, and speculating why, does not satisfy your burden of proof.

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Why did MythBusters acquire access to a NASA spacesuit and show a vacuum chamber but fail to enter the chamber wearing the suit?

First, because Mythbusters' insurance wouldn't allow it.  Second, because NASA regulations doesn't allow civilians inside vacuum chambers, regardless of purpose, and only allows its own humans in there for very specific reasons.  There are many reasons why humans don't casually enter vacuum chambers.  You don't get to presume the alleged rarity is for the reason you suppose.  The former you could have discovered by phoning the Mythbusters production office.  The latter you could have discovered by consulting CFR.

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And so many posts as expected want, so quickly, to get metaphysical.

Logical analysis is not metaphysical.  You are responsible for providing documentary, eyewitness, circumstantial, and other forms of evidence to support your claim.  You are also responsible for constructing a cogent line of reasoning to connect them to the conclusion you say you draw upon it.  Noting that your claim is logically untenable is not an inappropriate or subordinate form of analysis.

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I don't expect anyone to believe me alone.

It appears you do.  And we have shown ample cause why your judgment should be considered at best uninformed and at worst highly impaired, and why your allegations of fact should be questioned.

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I suggest three independent witnesses...

Before we decide whether to seek out these witnesses, give us a brief deposition.  What exactly do you suggest each of these three witnesses are expected to attest to?

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Whether you like it or not, the anomaly has been described.

Whether you like it or not, the anomaly has been dismissed as an unevidenced, unfounded suspicion based on your ignorance and laziness.  You do not get to beg the question that your accusation is sound simply for your having made it.

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The NASA spacesuits are allegedly used and tested but no scientific validation exists that they are.

Straw man.  You demand exactly one form of validation and assiduously ignore whether other convincing forms exist or whether your demand is a rational expectation.

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Now, if only we can get NASA to be scientifically accountable.

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By the way, I hope my suspicions are wrong. I hope we went to the moon and all the rest.

Nonsense.  The record shows you've passed up numerous pertinent opportunities to change your opinion upon good evidence.  Your argument is not at all consistent with someone who has been compelled to believe in a hoax despite a predilection otherwise.

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Raul Blanco is allegedly in charge of NASA spacesuit testing at the Johnson Space Center in Houston. I've chatted with him. He once promised video and photos but reneged.

Did he give you a reason?

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Holding him accountable is not inappropriate.

You're making serious accusations which, if true, would lead to felony charges being brought against prominent people.  Holding you accountable first is the proper action.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline Trebor

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2015, 06:02:24 PM »
Why do it on the ground, when it can be done in orbit? Or is it your assertion that the ISS, MIR, Skylab did not happen?

That is exactly what he claimed... then it got awkward when it was pointed out that you could see the ISS with your own eyes.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2015, 06:03:57 PM »
The photograph of the ice sublimator that is presented is able to be presented because of me. I'm confident, it was my steady agitation that caused it to finally appear on the Internet.

Then your confidence is misplaced.

Photographs of the PLSS ice sublimator have been available on the internet for over 10 years.

This...



... has been on display at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum since 1974 when it was transferred there from NASA's Johnson Space Flight Centre. I saw it there myself in 1987

I can only conclude that you have been intentionally blind and ignorant... which does not surprise me in the least given your track record of wilful ignorance.
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #52 on: August 26, 2015, 06:14:31 PM »
Why do it on the ground, when it can be done in orbit? Or is it your assertion that the ISS, MIR, Skylab did not happen?

That is exactly what he claimed... then it got awkward when it was pointed out that you could see the ISS with your own eyes.

He'll hate this then....
http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=116657

and this:
http://www.astrophoto.fr/STS-133.html
which shows (shock! horror!) a working spacesuit, imaged from the ground by an amateur*, using amateur gear**

Even without super-duper gear, this type of image is possible:


Which was taken from the UK, with a 200mm Newtonian. That was hand-guided at the time by Rob Bullen.







*a very, very skilled amateur,
**and not even that exceptional gear. A Takahashi mount and a 14" Edge SCT scope. Not entry level stuff admittedly, but not that high end.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline bknight

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #53 on: August 26, 2015, 06:20:04 PM »

He'll hate this then....
http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=116657

and this:
http://www.astrophoto.fr/STS-133.html
which shows (shock! horror!) a working spacesuit, imaged from the ground by an amateur*, using amateur gear**

Even without super-duper gear, this type of image is possible:


Which was taken from the UK, with a 200mm Newtonian. That was hand-guided at the time by Rob Bullen.

*a very, very skilled amateur,
**and not even that exceptional gear. A Takahashi mount and a 14" Edge SCT scope. Not entry level stuff admittedly, but not that high end.
Great images, but he will no doubt claim everyone is on the payroll. ::)
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Gazpar

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2015, 06:23:45 PM »
Why do it on the ground, when it can be done in orbit? Or is it your assertion that the ISS, MIR, Skylab did not happen?

That is exactly what he claimed... then it got awkward when it was pointed out that you could see the ISS with your own eyes.

He'll hate this then....
http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=116657

and this:
http://www.astrophoto.fr/STS-133.html
which shows (shock! horror!) a working spacesuit, imaged from the ground by an amateur*, using amateur gear**

Even without super-duper gear, this type of image is possible:


Which was taken from the UK, with a 200mm Newtonian. That was hand-guided at the time by Rob Bullen.







*a very, very skilled amateur,
**and not even that exceptional gear. A Takahashi mount and a 14" Edge SCT scope. Not entry level stuff admittedly, but not that high end.
That doesnt looks like a balloon at all.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #55 on: August 26, 2015, 06:23:50 PM »
Great images, but he will no doubt claim everyone is on the payroll. ::)

No doubt.
The payroll is getting pretty big now though. Plus it covers the entire globe as there many, many amateurs imaging various ISS transits....

http://bfy.tw/1Ui0
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline bknight

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2015, 06:34:45 PM »
Here's another shot, but this might take some special hardware.
http://www.astrosurf.com/legault/iss_atlantis_transit.html
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline raven

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #57 on: August 26, 2015, 06:39:11 PM »
Here's another shot, but this might take some special hardware.
http://www.astrosurf.com/legault/iss_atlantis_transit.html
The interested looking cows in the last picture are actually NASA agents in disguise, watching for any funny business from someone on their payroll.

Offline Cat Not Included

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2015, 06:39:26 PM »
Neil, let me ask you a two-part hypothetical question. Let us say, for some reason, NASA decided to arrange a special demonstration - just for you and some other observers - just like you request to show off the spacesuit working in a vacuum chamber.

Would this actually convince you?

If so, WHY would it actually convince you? You've posited some insanely complicated acts of deceit on behalf of NASA. According to you, they've somehow gotten an inflatable object into orbit around the planet at a speed of over 17,000 miles per hour.
Do you have the experience and knowledge to positively identify an in-use vacuum chamber? Could you tell if it was being faked?
Magicians manage to convince live audiences of amazing feats of illusion. David Copperfield arranged an illusion that tricked his audience into thinking he'd made the Statue of Liberty vanish. Do you really think they couldn't manage something as simple as a fake vacuum chamber?

So again, why would this specific demonstration convince you? It is no less "fakeable" than all the other evidence that is available.
The quote "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" very clearly predates personal computers.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Why I suspect Apollo was a hoax.
« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2015, 06:42:00 PM »
He'll hate this then....

Nothing is distasteful as long as you're willing to engage in an astonishing amount of denial.  As I said at first, if one's alleged hoax encompasses a colossal portion of what others take to be reality, then all possible refutation is simply dismissed as self-referential and therefore non-probative.  Deny enough reality, and it becomes legally and clinically actionable.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams