Off Topic > General Discussion
Boeing Starliner
Peter B:
--- Quote from: JayUtah on August 18, 2021, 10:03:14 AM ---In this particular race there are actually lots of points for second place. However, after the dismal failure of OFT-1, OFT-2 was seen by many as a highly crucial mission in terms of Boeing's credibility. This might be a nail in the coffin of the old funding model. The ship will fly, but it's definitely going to change how NASA and Boeing do business moving forward.
I think I said it before, but Boeing isn't the same company I started doing business with back in the 1990s, and not even in the same ballpark as the company that it was back in the 1960s. They've largely given up on what made them successful in the past. My brother-in-law just started there as a software engineer, but he's in the commercial airframe side of the business. We'll see what he reports about ongoing company culture.
--- End quote ---
Can you elaborate on what has changed? Is it unique to Boeing or are these changes happening in other aerospace/defence companies? And do these changes affect the ability of Boeing (and potentially the other companies) to provide good products to the US military?
jfb:
--- Quote from: Peter B on August 18, 2021, 10:28:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: JayUtah on August 18, 2021, 10:03:14 AM ---In this particular race there are actually lots of points for second place. However, after the dismal failure of OFT-1, OFT-2 was seen by many as a highly crucial mission in terms of Boeing's credibility. This might be a nail in the coffin of the old funding model. The ship will fly, but it's definitely going to change how NASA and Boeing do business moving forward.
I think I said it before, but Boeing isn't the same company I started doing business with back in the 1990s, and not even in the same ballpark as the company that it was back in the 1960s. They've largely given up on what made them successful in the past. My brother-in-law just started there as a software engineer, but he's in the commercial airframe side of the business. We'll see what he reports about ongoing company culture.
--- End quote ---
Can you elaborate on what has changed? Is it unique to Boeing or are these changes happening in other aerospace/defence companies? And do these changes affect the ability of Boeing (and potentially the other companies) to provide good products to the US military?
--- End quote ---
This article explains it pretty well.
Short version - Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas, which was a failing company for all the same reasons Boeing is struggling right now, and somehow the MD executives wound up in charge.
Peter B:
--- Quote from: jfb on August 18, 2021, 03:17:34 PM ---
--- Quote from: Peter B on August 18, 2021, 10:28:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: JayUtah on August 18, 2021, 10:03:14 AM ---In this particular race there are actually lots of points for second place. However, after the dismal failure of OFT-1, OFT-2 was seen by many as a highly crucial mission in terms of Boeing's credibility. This might be a nail in the coffin of the old funding model. The ship will fly, but it's definitely going to change how NASA and Boeing do business moving forward.
I think I said it before, but Boeing isn't the same company I started doing business with back in the 1990s, and not even in the same ballpark as the company that it was back in the 1960s. They've largely given up on what made them successful in the past. My brother-in-law just started there as a software engineer, but he's in the commercial airframe side of the business. We'll see what he reports about ongoing company culture.
--- End quote ---
Can you elaborate on what has changed? Is it unique to Boeing or are these changes happening in other aerospace/defence companies? And do these changes affect the ability of Boeing (and potentially the other companies) to provide good products to the US military?
--- End quote ---
This article explains it pretty well.
Short version - Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas, which was a failing company for all the same reasons Boeing is struggling right now, and somehow the MD executives wound up in charge.
--- End quote ---
Wow, what an interesting article. Clearly shows how Starliner and the 737-Max belong in the same basket.
Glom:
I was given a paper to read from Boeing on some outfitting they did to one of their derivatives. Kind of reads like a high school report what with the language. Things like, "engineers were mesmerised by the video."
Definitely not something you'd see in a major engineering publication.
JayUtah:
--- Quote from: jfb on August 18, 2021, 03:17:34 PM ---This article explains it pretty well.
Short version - Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas, which was a failing company for all the same reasons Boeing is struggling right now, and somehow the MD executives wound up in charge.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, that article pretty much sums it up. All I have to add just extends the points made there, and adds some color. The phrase, "McDonnell Douglas bought Boeing with Boeing's own money," has been in circulation in the aerospace community for years.
The philosophy of doing it cheaply rather than doing it right was McD's downfall, and will almost certainly be Boeing's. But I think the "color" I would add is that Boeing has fallen even more deeply in to the chasm of short-term shareholder and executive profits over good business. That's what every major American company seems to have done in the past 20 years. They seem to have become piggy-banks for the wealthy elite, who are just pillaging their assets and reputations for short-term profits.
And yes, this has begun to affect government contracts. Ironically that's why Boeing has been such an attractive target for pillaging. The near-bottomless revenue stream of government contracting makes dollar-signs ring up in the eyes of potential executives and investors. They seem to believe that Boeing can do no wrong, and that all manner of managerial misconduct or short-sightedness will be tolerated.
Aerospace requires strategic planning at least into the next decade, because that's how long development schedules have typically extended. None of that seems to be happening now. The focus seems to be on extending existing product lines for as long as possible with minimal investment. I fear the Dreamliner (which I was privileged to work on) will be the last new commercial airframe they develop. And I fear the Starliner will continue to stumble until Boeing finally loses NASA's confidence.
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