Author Topic: Wikipedia's "Summary"  (Read 6471 times)

Offline LionKing

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2014, 09:58:19 AM »
Apologies if my words upset you, LionKing.  I meant that it seemed odd to me to offer someone unsolicited advice on something they may or may not choose to do.

If I advise someone to write up what he has been studying and authoring in a well-organized book it is something odd? even if i advise him to add to something he already written, would that be so aggressive as long as it is posed as a suggestion?  Jay did you feel insulted?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 10:00:07 AM by LionKing »
“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi

Offline Andromeda

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2014, 10:18:16 AM »
I didn't say anything about being "aggressive", that's your word not mine.  I thought it was patronising that you told him he needed to "gain insight on how to refute", given that he is already an acknowledged expert at that.

Can we drop it, please?  I don't think we are going to understand each other.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 10:29:27 AM by Andromeda »
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov.

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2014, 10:27:09 AM »
If Jay is goign to write a book someday, and I encourage him to do so, the more we discuss issues the more he or whoever wants to write gains insight on how to refute and the more all of us learn. I understand that the pro-moon hoax may not give full context, but O'Leary can.

Why would Jay write a book? He has already authored what is widely considered the definitive online source of refuation of the hoax claims. After over a decade of doing that, I really don't think he has much to learn about how to refute them.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline LionKing

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2014, 10:58:01 AM »
the is ALWAYS room for learning more..if he doesn't want to publish a book that he can put on the net rather than a website and be more detailef, he can add to the eebsite itself ..of course if he thinks he wants to
“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi

Offline LionKing

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2014, 10:59:35 AM »
I didn't say anything about being "aggressive", that's your word not mine.  I thought it was patronising that you told him he needed to "gain insight on how to refute", given that he is already an acknowledged expert at that.

Can we drop it, please?  I don't think we are going to understand each other.

gaining new insight when possible about new things is nothing against courtesy, i believe
“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi

Offline LionKing

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2014, 11:03:59 AM »
another thing jay that i think can be added to your website,of course if u think it is a gd idea, is producing the same effect of big mountains versus small mountains. if i remember well our previous discussions there was a ridgeline that made the mountain look smaller.it would b more convincing to put a similar photo
“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2014, 11:05:20 AM »
The page claims that doubts were expressd about the missions after Apollo 8 and references Chalkin's "A man on the moon".

I'd like to know which specific part of the book this is referencing.

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2014, 11:11:04 AM »
gaining new insight when possible about new things is nothing against courtesy, i believe

The point is that there is nothing new there, LionKing. The claims there have been presented and refuted over and over again. They might be new to you, but not to us.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline raven

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2014, 02:55:52 PM »
As others have said, is there any specific claims you'd like to discuss, LionKing?
I know the good members of this board are more than happy to discuss them, but simply posting a link gives us no real place to start. What do you, Lionking consider among the more convincing arguments in favour of a hoax? As the idiom goes, at least meet us half way.

Offline gwiz

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2014, 09:57:03 AM »
For an alternative view, here's something that actually is from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_evidence_for_Apollo_Moon_landings
Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind - Terry Pratchett
...the ascent module ... took off like a rocket - Moon Man

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2014, 06:10:50 PM »
If Jay is goign to write a book someday, and I encourage him to do so...

I'm writing it, yes, and thank you for the encouragement.

Quote
[T]he more we discuss issues the more he or whoever wants to write gains insight on how to refute and the more all of us learn.

This is true.  Sometimes I sit back and let other people make whatever arguments they feel work best.  Even though Bob B. and KA9Q are also engineers, they each often take a different approach than I would.

Quote
I understand that the pro-moon hoax may not give full context, but O'Leary can.

He did.  The article at Clavius is his largely unedited response to how he had been quoted by the hoax proponents.  Several years after that, Jarrah White contacted him and alleged that O'Leary had returned to his earlier hoax beliefs.  When I contacted him to see if he had changed his mind in any way, he reaffirmed that the Clavius page still represented his thoughts.  Inexplicably, O'Leary didn't give me permission to publish that email, but I'm confident that what I have written is accurate.  White similarly maintains his claims, but in my case I have a witness -- O'Leary's friend Wade Frazier was copied on all the correspondence between myself and Brian O'Leary and can vouch for their content.  White refuses to contact Frazier to hear his testimony.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline LionKing

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2014, 11:58:20 AM »
If Jay is goign to write a book someday, and I encourage him to do so...

I'm writing it, yes, and thank you for the encouragement.

Quote
[T]he more we discuss issues the more he or whoever wants to write gains insight on how to refute and the more all of us learn.

This is true.  Sometimes I sit back and let other people make whatever arguments they feel work best.  Even though Bob B. and KA9Q are also engineers, they each often take a different approach than I would.

Quote
I understand that the pro-moon hoax may not give full context, but O'Leary can.

He did.  The article at Clavius is his largely unedited response to how he had been quoted by the hoax proponents.  Several years after that, Jarrah White contacted him and alleged that O'Leary had returned to his earlier hoax beliefs.  When I contacted him to see if he had changed his mind in any way, he reaffirmed that the Clavius page still represented his thoughts.  Inexplicably, O'Leary didn't give me permission to publish that email, but I'm confident that what I have written is accurate.  White similarly maintains his claims, but in my case I have a witness -- O'Leary's friend Wade Frazier was copied on all the correspondence between myself and Brian O'Leary and can vouch for their content.  White refuses to contact Frazier to hear his testimony.

Thanks Jay for the reply. Wish you all the best
“When you go through a hard period,
When everything seems to oppose you,
... When you feel you cannot even bear one more minute,
NEVER GIVE UP!
Because it is the time and place that the course will divert!”
 Rumi

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2014, 02:07:51 PM »
White similarly maintains his claims, but in my case I have a witness -- O'Leary's friend Wade Frazier was copied on all the correspondence between myself and Brian O'Leary and can vouch for their content.  White refuses to contact Frazier to hear his testimony.

Yes, but White does tend to use the flimsiest of excuses to make a chest thumping video that accuses you of being a bare faced liar. We all know that.

If my memory serves me correctly, the last time Frazier visited this forum he vouched for the email content. Is that correct? If so White doesn't really need to contact Frazier, he simply needs to read these boards.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people – Sir Isaac Newton.

A polar orbit would also bypass the SAA - Tim Finch

Offline ka9q

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Re: Wikipedia's "Summary"
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2014, 04:03:07 PM »
Jay, I certainly don't want to discourage you from writing anything (if you are, I want a copy!) but I am wondering just how much more can be usefully written about the Apollo "hoax". Except maybe to collect and organize all of what has already been written.

There haven't been any new "arguments" in a long time, and of course the old ones have been thoroughly driven into the ground for anyone who cares to listen and apply some reason.

So why am I involved? Well... to be perfectly honest part of me thinks it is largely a waste of time. But another part readily admits to enjoying a good argument, especially when I can be (unlike with many things) absolutely certain I'm right.

But more seriously, it has caused me to learn a lot more about Apollo and related technology than I would have otherwise by going to the primary references. Perhaps it is these references that ought to be carefully organized, annotated and published as Dwight has done with the Apollo TV subsystem.