Author Topic: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)  (Read 91333 times)

Offline dwight

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #120 on: January 22, 2013, 12:03:09 PM »
Yeah you know where I told you that Fendell  used a panel not a joystick, or when it was noted that it's LM not LEM,  you know clanger type errors that kinda dampen your champagne and fireworks show celebrating that you "got us".

Oh and I'm still discussing your fundamental errors in the GCTA in case the mention of Fendell threw you.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 12:08:36 PM by dwight »
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Offline Inanimate Carbon Rod

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #121 on: January 22, 2013, 12:06:39 PM »
Stopped answering questions and started insulting people. The behaviour of an engineer, alright. One who worked for NASA or something.
Formerly Supermeerkat. Like you care.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #122 on: January 22, 2013, 12:08:30 PM »
That would be the LEM IMU update using a theodolite and a survey point to convert to lunar units.

No, that's not required.

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The LEM doesn't know where it is or what it's alignment is on the moon...

It doesn't need to know where it is on the Moon to any great degree of accuracy.  The IMU alignment is to correct for IMU drift, not to establish the launch site location and spacecraft orientation.

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The big problem is that there's no survey marker because somebody would need to have been to the moon previously to put it there.  Saturn 5 had a glass window with a poro prism so you could see the IMU and the center of inertial reference and tell the guidance computer where the IMU is located in geodetic earth coordinates (to 5 decimal places.)  It takes a guy on the pad with a theodolite and a plumb bob.  They do this repeatedly up to the moment of launch.

And that's how you confirm IMU alignment when you're launching from Earth during the daytime.  What makes you think that's the only way it can be done?

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When lifting off from the moon, both the LEM and the CM would need to be running on moon coordinates so that the CM (moving much faster than a speeding bullet) could tell the LEM it's coordinates and velocity (state vector).

No, that's not how it was done.  That's the hard way to do it.  After the LM lifts off, the only thing that matters is the vector from LM to CM and the velocity along that vector.  It does not matter in the least what lunar surface coordinates the LM left from.  The CM does not need to "tell" the LM its "coordinates and [relative] velocity state"; the LM is perfectly capable of acquiring that information itself via rendezvous radar.

Clear you are unaware of how orbital rendezvous really works and the basic principles of terminal guidance.  How you can claim to be a rocket engineer is beyond me.  You're completely clueless.

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And the LEM would need moon coordinates to know how to maneuver for rendezvous using it's known position and alignment on the moon, and calculating the intercept point in moon coordinates.   There's no way around it.  They would not have been able to do an IMU alignment on the moon.

No, that's not how it was done.  You suggest that orbital rendezvous is a one-shot deal that depends heavily on terrestrial coordinates.  In fact orbital rendezvous is a stepwise procedure using terminal guidance procedures that are completely removed from terrestrial launch conditions.

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Some rockets still use the theodolite system prior to launch.

And some do not.  So why do you suggest that's the only way to align an IMU?

You come here pretending to be an engineer familiar with launch operations, but clearly you aren't.  You fail to understand basic physics, and have no clue how launch operations, guidance, and navigation are actually done.  You can't even demonstrate a competent knowledge of how Apollo claimed to do it.  You base your argument solely on your patently false claim to be an engineer, arguing from some semblance of personal knowledge and expertise.  You seem to believe we should accept your claim to expertise a priori as a given fact.  That's not how it works.  Instead we look at the ignorant arguments you make and from them conclude that you can't possibly be a competent engineer.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #123 on: January 22, 2013, 12:13:26 PM »
Hey... tell me about that IMU alignment on the moon they didn't do.  They couldn't get back without it.

No, that's your ignorant misunderstanding of the problem.

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You haven't been hit with that one before, have you?

Now how would you possibly know that?  That was on the previous incarnation of this forum.

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Now you're stuck.  You're all stuck.

No, the poster who proposed it wallowed around for a bit in the same pool of ignorance you find yourself in, ultimately admitted he was wrong about the LM guidance, then self-destructed in a flurry of spam and insults for which he was eventually banned.  He then fled to JREF where he made the same argument, was confronted by the same refutations, made threats toward the JREF management and was subsequently banned.  He now spends an unhealthy amount of time trying to create sock puppets and obsessively arguing the same claims.

Wanna talk about Borman's poop now?
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline gillianren

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #124 on: January 22, 2013, 12:15:16 PM »
You giving me information?  Wow, that's funny.  What do I owe you for that?  Hey... tell me about that IMU alignment on the moon they didn't do.  They couldn't get back without it.  I've gotcha there!!!  You haven't been hit with that one before, have you?  Now you're stuck.  You're all stuck. 

You know what you owe the people who answered your questions?  Common courtesy.  Act like an adult, not a child.  Admit that you're lying about being an engineer or provide the information that shows that you are.  There are people here who know more about Apollo than you know about anything, and you haven't "gotten" anyone.  You think your stupid mewling can trump their reasoned displays of evidence, because you have only ever interacted with people who don't know what they're talking about--or else you have continually ignored the people who do.  Or, you know, you're a sad, pathetic little liar who thinks that getting a rise out of intelligent people shows that you're smart.

I'd love to have an intelligent, reasonable discussion with a hoax believer who can be taught.  However, all the ones who can be taught stop being hoax believers.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline alexsanchez

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #125 on: January 22, 2013, 12:17:51 PM »
Great.  Why don't you tell us how they did it?  Or just paste a link here?  I don't work for you.

When did it become anyone's job on here to educate people?

It's your contention that Lunar rendezvous could not take place. It's your burden of proof.
No, the burden of proof is on you.  For over 100,000 years, nobody went to the moon.  One day, the govt says we went to the moon.  40 years later, nobody else has been to the moon.  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  We didn't go to the moon because it wasn't possible to do an IMU alignment to moon coordinates to get back from the moon.  The LM/LEM would have had geodetic (earth) coordinates in it's GC.  The LEM didn't know where it was on the moon.  It didn't know what it's alignment was to the moon.  It didn't know where the CM was in relation to the LEM.  And you couldn't do an IMU alignment on the moon because there was no survey marker there!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_marker
 

Offline RAF

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #126 on: January 22, 2013, 12:18:53 PM »
Have you figured out how they did the IMU alignment on the moon?   If you can't find the answer, then they didn't do it, and they didn't go to the moon.  End of story.

I have evaluated your engineering "expertise" and have determined that you are talking out your hiney.

In other words, no one here cares what your ignorant opinion is.

why don't you take this crap where it belongs...somewhere like godlikeproductions.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #127 on: January 22, 2013, 12:24:38 PM »
We didn't go to the moon because it wasn't possible to do an IMU alignment to moon coordinates to get back from the moon.

And that's where the burden of proof shifts to you.  Your ignorance of how space navigation is actually done does not satisfy that burden.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline alexsanchez

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #128 on: January 22, 2013, 12:25:26 PM »
Hey... tell me about that IMU alignment on the moon they didn't do.  They couldn't get back without it.

No, that's your ignorant misunderstanding of the problem.

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You haven't been hit with that one before, have you?

Now how would you possibly know that?  That was on the previous incarnation of this forum.

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Now you're stuck.  You're all stuck.

No, the poster who proposed it wallowed around for a bit in the same pool of ignorance you find yourself in, ultimately admitted he was wrong about the LM guidance, then self-destructed in a flurry of spam and insults for which he was eventually banned.  He then fled to JREF where he made the same argument, was confronted by the same refutations, made threats toward the JREF management and was subsequently banned.  He now spends an unhealthy amount of time trying to create sock puppets and obsessively arguing the same claims.

Wanna talk about Borman's poop now?
When was I wrong about the LM guidance?

Offline Mag40

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #129 on: January 22, 2013, 12:26:28 PM »
http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=720&sid=0c4bd2fdb50b96e54fc4acd7f964cad1&start=450#p2374617

"I worked on the ISS for a short while. They had a full scale mockup of it in the lobby. Another building on site housed a huge swimming pool with lots of windows for astronaut "training." Wait a minute... you don't think... nahhhh!!!"


http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=720&start=420#p2373665

"The ISS is real. I worked on it at McDonnell Douglas (now Boeing) which became the prime contractor after Rockwell. Put it this way, they put something up there, which is no great feat.

With that said, are there people up there? They could be lying about that, although it's in low earth orbit, so people could live up there. But, when I worked on it (as a software engineer,) it was a total basket case of a project. It was a dumping ground for incompetent engineers (I was only on loan temporarily waiting for another project to start up.) The software at the time was Ada and the CASE tool was Matrix-X from HP for automatic code generation with a drag and drop interface. It was a POS. The test platform was the size of a refrigerator, and was used by all countries involved. The in-circuit emulator (ICE) had a socket on the front for the i386 chip, but there was never a chip in there because the ICE didn't work, so you had to use the software emulator which barely worked. The only thing you had for debugging was breakpoints. No single stepping or variable tracing. You had to use print statements to see anything. Before I got off the project I heard they were talking about switching to C++ (although apparently they stayed with Ada.) They also had a full mockup of the ISS for people to come see. I worked in beautiful building in Huntington Beach, CA. At the time I worked on it, I was thinking the thing would never fly.

The space shuttle is real, too. I was at Patrick AFB (next to the Kennedy Space Center - KSC) walking out to the parking lot before leaving the next morning for a work assignment in the Virgin Islands. The Columbia lifted off just as I was walking out. It was so bright I could feel the heat on my face. A week later I was on the highest peak in St. Thomas at a radar station eating a donut because all work was stopped as the range resources were in use for the return of the Columbia. We were listening to the live feed from all the radar operators around the country. We suddenly heard the KSC operator frantically asking the other radar stations if they had the target. White Sands said no, Johnson Space Center said no. We turned on CNN and a few minutes later they said the Columbia had been lost somewhere over Texas. It was very poignant. I saw it go up, and I heard it disappear in real time.

As far as the Mars landing... it's fake. Apollo was filmed by Stanley Kubrick. Yuri Gagarin was never in space. I do think the Ruskies had the first man in space, but he died, so they said it was Gagarin. That's why the USSR never said Apollo was fake. Gagarin was a national hero."


He gets about ???

Offline RAF

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #130 on: January 22, 2013, 12:28:03 PM »
When was I wrong about the LM guidance?

Well, right off the bat, you referred to the LM as the LEM.

That was a dead givaway that you were clueless

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #131 on: January 22, 2013, 12:28:47 PM »
When was I wrong about the LM guidance?

So you admit to being the banned poster Patrick Tekeli of San Fransisco, posting here as a sock puppet in flagrant violation of forum rules?
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline sts60

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #132 on: January 22, 2013, 12:31:09 PM »
Hi again, alexsanchez. 
I've got 30 years in aerospace.  I've worked at VAFB and KSC.
In what capacity?
Engineer.  I worked on space station guidance and control, too.
So you worked at Vandenberg and KSC, as an engineer, and did ISS G&C...
You wouldn't be able to confirm anything.  You don't have access to that kind of information.  It was technically Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.  It's where the Air Force launch pads are.  I didn't work for NASA,  I was on an Air Force contract.
... Except you actually worked on the Cape side...
You wouldn't be able to confirm anything.  You don't have access to that kind of information.
Of course I do.  I verify contract employment for classified projects all the time.
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I was on an Air Force contract.
Contract number, please.
Jeez... that was 10 years ago.  Let me think.... ahh can't remember the numbers.  It started with a one I think.  Damn.  Damn.  Damn.  Just can't remember.  You know you really are a special kind of moron?  CDC Cyber replacement, and FOV-1.
... and you did computer replacement and something to do with FOV-1 - I have to admit I'm drawing a blank on the latter, would you mind filling me in on what that was and what you did?  Are you referring to the range safety system? 

And since you may have missed my earlier post in this busy thread, I just thought I'd ask again how the station GNC fits into your stated work. 

Offline alexsanchez

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #133 on: January 22, 2013, 12:42:41 PM »
When was I wrong about the LM guidance?

Well, right off the bat, you referred to the LM as the LEM.

That was a dead givaway that you were clueless
On that note, I'm outta here.  LEM vs LM?  You're serious, aren't you?  Wow!!! I guess I am clueless.  Goodbye.  And good luck solving the problem about the IMU alignment on the moon.  Until you solve it, you didn't go to the moon.  And you won't solve it because it didn't happen.  Sayonara.

Offline Mag40

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Re: Brilliant debunk video of hoax claims - HBs take note (if you can)
« Reply #134 on: January 22, 2013, 12:46:38 PM »
On that note, I'm outta here.  LEM vs LM?  You're serious, aren't you?  Wow!!! I guess I am clueless.  Goodbye.  And good luck solving the problem about the IMU alignment on the moon.  Until you solve it, you didn't go to the moon.  And you won't solve it because it didn't happen.  Sayonara.

No, don't go. Argue with Heiwa about the ISS when he gets back......I'll get some popcorn in and we can all laugh at the pair of you.