Author Topic: LM Hatch  (Read 1898 times)

Offline Kiwi

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Re: LM Hatch
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2019, 08:40:50 PM »
...And let's not forget that it was only a twist of fate that changed the name of the first person to walk on the Moon from Commander Charles 'Pete' Conrad.

And also one of the Original Seven, Virgil I "Gus" Grissom.

Footnote in First Man, page 370:--
Quote
In his posthumously published 2001 autobiography, Deke!, Slayton states that if Gus Grissom had not been killed in the Apollo fire, he would have chosen Grissom to be the first man on the Moon.
Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)
Some people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices and superstitions. — Edward R. Murrow (1908–65)

Offline Obviousman

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Re: LM Hatch
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2019, 02:48:23 AM »
Yeah, good point - I had forgotten that it all changed with the Apollo 1 fire.

Offline Kiwi

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Re: LM Hatch
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2019, 05:46:13 AM »
Collins writes in "Carrying the Fire": Neil Armstrong - "Neil is a classy guy, and I can't offhand think of a better choice to be first man on the moon."

Hi Ajv -- long time since we last talked. You're the only Kiwi Apollo Nut that I've been in touch with in recent years.

Please tell me the page or chapter that that quote is in. I've been browsing through "Carrying the Fire" for nearly three hours (and getting sidetracked into so many pages that make great reading) and not found it, and it's not in the ten pages of notes I took down when you lent me the book back in November 2005. I enjoyed it so much that I wanted my own copy, which I finally bought new in 2014 at the crazy price of NZ$4.95.
Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)
Some people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices and superstitions. — Edward R. Murrow (1908–65)

Offline ajv

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Re: LM Hatch
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2019, 07:21:49 AM »
It's on page 60 in my edition (chapter 3) where he make a few notes about all the (living) astronauts from his group and earlier.

Here's his notes about one of them:
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O.K. if you're looking for a handball game, but otherwise nothing special. Lazy (in this group of overachievers, at least), frequently ineffectual, detached, waits for happenings instead of causing them. Balances this with generally good judgment and a broader point of view than most.

Offline Peter B

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Re: LM Hatch
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2019, 07:54:20 AM »
I have always been a little annoyed by the reasons given for choosing the astronauts. Like why they chose Neil to be the first man on the moon. The way the story goes, he was next in the line. I don't believe that it was merely incidental. I want to hear about the meetings and the votes likely cast by the different seniors and what their reasoning was. When Buzz lobbied to be first out, I can bet it had nothing to do with the hatch or seniority. I also want to know why they chose Buzz to be second instead of any of the other astronauts. Why did they pick the teams the way they did?

Most of the answers are in the book mentioned by Peter B in the last paragraph above your post.

The authorized biography of Neil Armstrong, "First Man", James R Hansen, Simon & Schuster, New York, 2005 (also available from S&S as Audio and eBook) has a 14-page chapter on the subject -- chapter 25, "First Out", pages 360 to 373, plus a few closing remarks on page 374, chapter 26, "Dialectics of a Moon Mission". Pages 695 and 696 have over 50 notes about the sources for chapter 25.

Also read the surrounding chapters for much more information about crew selection, training, etc. For instance, chapter 24 uses as its title Mike Collins's description of the crew of Apollo 11, "Amiable Strangers".

Some important points in chapter 25:--

9 January 1969 - p360 - The crew of Apollo 11 were introduced to the media at a press conference. The very first question asked by a reporter was about who would be first out.

Late-February 1969 - p361 - There were newspaper reports, probably based on the procedures used during the Gemini missions, that Aldrin would be the first man to step on the moon.

3 to 13 March 1969 - p361 - During Apollo 9 Dr George E Mueller told some reporters that Aldrin would be first out.

Mid-March 1969 - p370-372 - Apollo managers Deke Slayton, Bob Gilruth, George Low and Chris Kraft got together informally to decide on the issue. They agreed that the first guy on the Moon would be like Lindbergh -- a legend and an American hero beyond Lindbergh and any soldier, politician or inventor. "It should be Neil Armstrong... Calm, quiet, and absolute confidence." He was the Lindbergh type. He had no ego... Reticent, soft-spoken, and heroic, Neil was their only, and unanimous, choice.

At no time was was the LM's interior design or hatch design discussed by the four. Those later became a technical justification for the decision which Bob Gilruth passed on to George Mueller and Sam Phillips at Nasa HQ, and Deke told the crew.

Gee, I wonder how they would have managed that if the hatch's hinge had been on the opposite side...?

 ;)

Offline gwiz

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Re: LM Hatch
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2019, 05:01:26 AM »
Gee, I wonder how they would have managed that if the hatch's hinge had been on the opposite side...?

 ;)
Switched places before getting kitted up for the EVA?
Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind - Terry Pratchett
...the ascent module ... took off like a rocket - Moon Man

Offline Peter B

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Re: LM Hatch
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2019, 08:13:45 AM »
Gee, I wonder how they would have managed that if the hatch's hinge had been on the opposite side...?

 ;)
Switched places before getting kitted up for the EVA?

But apparently that was something attempted in a LM simulator when they were testing having Aldrin go out first, and it damaged the cabin.

This is why this discussion is so intriguing to me - the evidence Kiwi presents seems to suggest the First-Out decision was based on the crew with no technical dimension, and yet it's hard to see how the technical dimension could have been avoided.