Author Topic: The Absence of Airlocks  (Read 19633 times)

Offline JayUtah

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #120 on: September 10, 2019, 01:26:43 AM »
Well given they already produced this...

Doesn't mean they retained the tooling.  It takes 270,000 distinct tools to produce a Boeing 747, almost none of which are applicable to any other airframe.  Some of the tools incorporate expensive elements that will be recovered and reused if the company decides to stop producing the 747.  Nobody keeps tooling around for things they stop building.  It would take up a factory-sized amount of space.

In contrast, the manufacture of consumer electronics involves very little specialized tooling.  Putting components on a printed circuit board and soldering them in place has been a thoroughly generalized manufacturing technique for decades.

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...and have the technology...

"Technology" is not a magically fungible concept.

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...blueprints...

Why do you think blueprints automatically result in tooling?

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...clearly a lot shorter time than it took in the 60's.

That wasn't my question.  I didn't ask you to reaffirm your assumption.  I asked you to supply, if possible, the facts that relate to your claims.  You don't know those facts, do you?

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For instance, if the plan over the years has been to go back to the moon, or now Mars, you would think...

Who specifically would think this?  Why should your goals be the goals of people actually doing the thing?

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...that they would love to do some testing in outer space near earth just to understand the environment better.

What specifically about "the environment" requires understanding in the form of building spacecraft in the manner you suggest?

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Does that make sense to you?

Your attempts to describe what goes on in my industry make absolutely no sense to me.  Think about that.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 01:41:58 AM by JayUtah »
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #121 on: September 10, 2019, 01:27:30 AM »
Why go out 10000 miles? Test steering in a vacuum for one.

Why can't that be done in low Earth orbit?
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline ApolloEnthusiast

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #122 on: September 10, 2019, 01:27:40 AM »
For instance, if the plan over the years has been to go back to the moon, or now Mars, you would think that they would love to do some testing in outer space near earth just to understand the environment better. But no, nothing, nada. In 50 years. Does that make sense to you?
The US did 3 Skylab missions, Apollo-Soyuz, 135 Space Shuttle missions, and the ISS has been continuously occupied for nearly 20 years...

If you add that up, check my math here, it is a number much higher than 0.

Once again, you prove yourself to be laughably uniformed.

Unless you believe there is some magical operational difference between being in Low Earth Orbit vs. High Earth Orbit, in which case again, you are laughably ignorant.

I listed just the manned missions, by the way.  This says nothing about all of the space operations involving robotic explorers, Earth orbiting satellites, Moon orbiting satellites, satellites of other planets and their moons, space telescopes, etc...

Just stop while you're way behind and acknowledge your mistakes before making brand new ones.

Offline AtomicDog

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #123 on: September 10, 2019, 01:29:49 AM »
Hi Atomic Dog

Why go out 10000 miles? Test steering in a vacuum for one. 

That can be, and has been done, in LEO by every manned craft ever made.
"There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death." - Isaac Asimov

Offline JayUtah

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #124 on: September 10, 2019, 01:32:58 AM »
That can be, and has been done, in LEO by every manned craft ever made.

...and unmanned.  The "steering in a vacuum" problem has been well solved for decades.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline sts60

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #125 on: September 10, 2019, 02:06:41 AM »
Hi Jay,

How long do you think it takes to...
Hi Atomic Dog

Why go out 10000 miles?... 

No gish gallop for you.

You need to address the comically inept claims you made about the LM on the lunar surface before we talk about your comically inept claims about “blueprints” and “10000 miles”.

Well, before I talk about them anyway.   Other folks enjoy the batting practice too much.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 02:09:51 AM by sts60 »

Offline raven

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #126 on: September 10, 2019, 02:18:54 AM »
It took longer than since Apollo before anyone returned to the deepest part of the ocean, first braved by the Bathyscaphe Trieste, and that is a much simpler engineering problem than going to the moon. In the end, all it took was the resources of a film director's money and influence to do so. It wasn't impossible in that time in-between, no one going before then didn't prove Trieste a hoax, just there was no motivation by others to  put forward the money and manpower to do.

Offline sts60

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #127 on: September 10, 2019, 02:19:18 AM »
jr Knowing, why are you so determined not to learn anything?  If I went on a medical forum populated by nurses and doctors and educated laymen, and claimed that the spleen was responsible for CO2 exchange, the resulting responses would make me think, “Wow, was I way off!  I think I’d better try to understand this better!”  What I wouldn’t do is try to change the subject to a surgeons’ conspiracy to cover up that trepanation and vanilla extract are a sure cure for osteoporosis.

Why try to change the subject with more ignorant claims rather than understand your misconceptions?  Why not learn something instead?

Offline BertieSlack

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #128 on: September 10, 2019, 02:46:45 AM »
The only thing out there, (for the most part) are dumb downed diagrams.

Why don't you show us a diagram showing how (as you claim) a person standing closer to a light source throws a longer shadow than a person standing further away. Remember - you claimed that the shadow is actually longer (not just appears longer) and you have already dismissed terrain variations and perspective foreshortening as explanations as to why the farther shadow might appear shorter.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #129 on: September 10, 2019, 03:18:31 AM »
Without a shadow of a doubt, jr knowing's nonsense and his attempts to gish-gallop are the best description of pigeon chess that I've seen displayed for quite a while. Chapeau, jr knowing! We've had some weapons-grade idiocy on this board before and youve managed to make the grade along with some of the finest idiots that we've had.  :D

"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #130 on: September 10, 2019, 03:54:42 AM »
But what about A13? They felt things getting colder not hotter. So either posters here are correct, and the astronauts were lying. Or the A13 Astronauts are correct and the posters here are wrong? Which is it?

False dilemma. It is not hard to figure out why Apollo 13 differs from all the other planned EVA scenarios as it is a matter of public record that, in order to conserve the resources in the spacecraft, they shut down the command module completely and powered down the LM to minimal requirements. They deliberately removed the main source of heat from the system. Jim Lovell also recalls that they 'made a mistake' in putting up the window blinds to stop the sunlight disrupting their sleep, because that also removed a source of heat from the interior of the spacecraft: solar radiation coming in through the windows. None of these conditions apply to planned EVA activities where the hatch is open but everything inside is still operating.
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #131 on: September 10, 2019, 04:00:14 AM »
Hi Abaddon,

The lack of blueprints is not baloney. The only thing out there, (for the most part) are dumb downed diagrams intended for media use.

This is, simply, horse shit. There is a lot of technical information available, some has been published. I have numerous books on my shelf at home that include some original Apollo drawings. Not having a full set of construction blueprints for every little detail is not the same as losing them all.

And you are still trying to deflect attention from your original argument. I repeat my question: why are you here?
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #132 on: September 10, 2019, 05:42:35 AM »
Hi Abaddon,

The lack of blueprints is not baloney. The only thing out there, (for the most part) are dumb downed diagrams intended for media use.

You have no idea (as per usual) of what's retained in the corporate histories of the various contractors. Hell, there's even a stock of unused F-1 engines in storage.

The blueprints are of limited value anyway as if we were to build a Saturn V equivalent then we would use completely different materials, construction techniques and designs.

Or, is it your contention, that the only way to get to the moon is to blindly reproduce the vehicles and techniques that were state-of-the-art 50 years ago? If it is, then you are making yourself appear dumber than a rock.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Halcyon Dayz, FCD

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #133 on: September 10, 2019, 05:52:31 AM »
Why go out 10000 miles? Test steering in a vacuum for one.

Why can't that be done in low Earth orbit?
The vacuum at 10,000 miles must be denser...

 :o
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It rots the mind and blackens the heart.

Offline Trebor

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Re: The Absence of Airlocks
« Reply #134 on: September 10, 2019, 06:21:45 AM »
Why go out 10000 miles? Test steering in a vacuum for one.

Why can't that be done in low Earth orbit?
The vacuum at 10,000 miles must be denser...

 :o

This 'space' thing sounds perilous, you get out too far and all this super dense vacuum rushes in and freezes you solid...
Or is it supposed to burn you up? I lose track.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 06:53:06 AM by Trebor »