Author Topic: "Apollo 11" Documentary  (Read 2002 times)

Offline bknight

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2019, 12:31:16 PM »
Hi Jay,

Thanks, I thought it was DAC footage. Does anyone have a link to it? I can't seem to find it in any of the Journals. It is probably right in front of my eyes but I can't seem to locate it.

An obvious suggestion, Apollo Flight Journal.
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2019, 01:18:23 PM »
Another issue to consider is that not all the flight footage used in the film was strictly from the Apollo 11 mission.  The specific scene in question might have come from a different mission.  That affects how easy it is to find online, if it has been digitized.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2019, 01:55:30 PM »
Not having seen the documentary it's difficult to judge - can you describe the scene? Is it showing the CSM against a black sky? From directly above with the lunar surface in the background?

The AFJ has several youtube channels, one for each mission, and has good quality versions of the 16mm footage.

This is the Apollo 11 one

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnVYpEWcPdnotlCz7kriFxg

Offline JayUtah

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2019, 03:46:44 PM »
I'd have to see the film again to know which exact shot he's talking about.  I deduced it was DAC footage since the only moving pictures that could be taken of the CSM in lunar orbit would have to be from the LM's DAC.  The LM had no way to shoot and transmit television pictures except on the lunar surface.

There was no photorealistic simulation prepared for the film.  The only non-photographic elements were the simple line-drawing animations showing the activity of the spacecraft during each mission phase.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline jr Knowing

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2019, 06:56:02 PM »
Hi OneBM and Jay,

It is footage of the CSM.  And it appears the CSM is casting a shadow on the moon. (unless I misinterpreted the scene) Thanks

Offline JayUtah

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2019, 10:04:10 PM »
Hi OneBM and Jay,

It is footage of the CSM.  And it appears the CSM is casting a shadow on the moon. (unless I misinterpreted the scene) Thanks

Hoax claims are not permitted in this section.  Please state explicitly what point you're trying to make by referencing that scene.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline jr Knowing

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2019, 11:14:31 PM »
Hi Jay,

Its not a hoax claim. I am not even quite sure what I saw. It is possible it was of the LM and not the CM. In that case, it could even be TV footage instead of DAC footage. All I remember it was after they finished up activities on the surface and before the DAC rendezvous footage. 

Offline JayUtah

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2019, 11:37:06 PM »
Its not a hoax claim.

Fair enough.  You're obviously allowed to make hoax claims, just in the proper section.  Our moderator is quite strict about that.

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I am not even quite sure what I saw. It is possible it was of the LM and not the CM.

That's understandable in the sense that the film showed lots of clips of both spacecraft during orbit and ascent, after the surface activity.  Again, until someone can identify the clip in question there's not much point talking about it.

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In that case, it could even be TV footage instead of DAC footage.

Not likely, as the television connection required a lot of effort from the crew and even more effort from the MSFN operators.  Because the MSFN was not permanently configured for television -- they had to lease lines that were ordinarily given over to commercial use -- it was not common to have impromptu transmissions.  Further, the ascent and rendezvous was considered one of the most critical operations of the flight.  It's not a time when people would be mucking about with the television camera.  The Maurer cameras, however, could be mounted in windows and left alone.  For example, the terminal approach phase of the LM, which was depicted in the film, is actually at artificial speed because it was taken at 6 frames per second by the CM DAC mounted in a window.  The filmmakers seems to have converted it at the 24-30 fps rate.  Because if you play it back at natural speed, it's really boring.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2019, 08:50:27 AM »
Hi Jay,

Its not a hoax claim. I am not even quite sure what I saw. It is possible it was of the LM and not the CM. In that case, it could even be TV footage instead of DAC footage. All I remember it was after they finished up activities on the surface and before the DAC rendezvous footage.

You really should be able to tell the difference between the two.

There were several TV broadcasts of the LM from the CSM during separation and rendez-vous.

We've had a discussion before on this site about the CSM casting shadows - iirc it related to the Apollo 17 DAC footage of the CSM speeding through Taurus-Littrow. I think the conclusion was that it was a smudge on the lens.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2019, 09:04:50 AM »
...Apollo 17 DAC footage of the CSM speeding through Taurus-Littrow.

I think that segment appeared in the film.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline jr Knowing

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2019, 12:02:14 PM »
Hi Onebigmonkey,

Thanks, I know that A17 footage. It is a smudge. It is possible they used it in the Apollo 11 Doc. I was thinking about that but the doc footage I believe showed the shadow/smudge etc to the right of the craft. The A17 footage the smudge is to the left. Maybe they just reversed the film for the doc. (this DAC footage btw had not been shot into a mirror)

Offline JayUtah

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2019, 12:18:13 PM »
Thanks, I know that A17 footage. It is a smudge. It is possible they used it in the Apollo 11 Doc.

That's the footage I immediately thought of when you raised this question.  But naturally until we all are looking at specific footage and agreeing that it's what we recall, we can't be sure.  I think I remember seeing it in the film and wondering why they included the CSM overflight of Taurus Littrow in a film about Apollo 11.  But then it is common to interpolate footage from other missions.  The Saturn V staging sequences as seen from the various stages themselves are not from Apollo 11.  Not all the Saturn Vs were so instrumented.  It is important to regard tertiary sources like feature documentaries in the proper light, not as historical records.

Quote
I was thinking about that but the doc footage I believe showed the shadow/smudge etc to the right of the craft. The A17 footage the smudge is to the left. Maybe they just reversed the film for the doc. (this DAC footage btw had not been shot into a mirror)

This is something I can follow up on later.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline JayUtah

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2019, 04:54:09 PM »
  at 2:10.  Is this the clip you're thinking of, Jr Knowing?
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline jr Knowing

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2019, 04:59:48 PM »
Hi Jay,

Yes, that is footage I have it in my library for A17. But if memory serves, the footage I saw in the Doc the "smudge" was on the right of the ship. Maybe they reversed the film.

Offline LunarOrbit

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Re: "Apollo 11" Documentary
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2019, 05:02:31 PM »
  at 2:10.  Is this the clip you're thinking of, Jr Knowing?
Yeah, I do remember seeing that in the documentary.

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