Author Topic: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy  (Read 1349 times)

Online raven

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2019, 06:21:04 PM »
Gods, one of the things that made me just want to shout in anger, was an anti-vaxxer video about how last year was one of the worst in a long time on record, so so much for vaccines, amiright?
"You!" I wanted to shout. "You are doing this! You're breaking the bonds of herd immunity, you <words denoting canine heritage and unmarried status of the biological parents/>!"
It try not to get  flaming pissed often, but this  certainly worked grandly.

Offline bknight

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2019, 10:13:50 PM »
Gods, one of the things that made me just want to shout in anger, was an anti-vaxxer video about how last year was one of the worst in a long time on record, so so much for vaccines, amiright?
"You!" I wanted to shout. "You are doing this! You're breaking the bonds of herd immunity, you <words denoting canine heritage and unmarried status of the biological parents/>!"
It try not to get  flaming pissed often, but this  certainly worked grandly.

Quit hiding your feelings, tell us how you really feel.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Online raven

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2019, 01:02:06 AM »
Quit hiding your feelings, tell us how you really feel.
If I told you that, your computer, nay, the very servers that serve this place would melt and burn asunder, your monitor wouldst be rent riven by the very force of my wrath. Oceans would boil, the land itself would become a sea of seething lava. The sun would be but a shadow, and the brightest quasar, the most brilliant accretion disk, could only hope to outshine my great fury.
So, yeah, I might be a tad bit peeved.

Offline gillianren

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2019, 11:10:02 AM »
I had to take Simon to the ER for an ear infection yesterday morning, and there was a news report about a local measles epidemic.  Also instructions in the hospital about how to deal with a possible measles patient.  Vaccinating the kids is so much easier.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline bknight

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2019, 11:49:13 AM »
I had to take Simon to the ER for an ear infection yesterday morning, and there was a news report about a local measles epidemic.  Also instructions in the hospital about how to deal with a possible measles patient.  Vaccinating the kids is so much easier.


Confirmed epidemic or just news hysteria?  What part of the Pacific northwest are you living?
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline jfb

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2019, 01:21:57 PM »
I was astonished when my faith-healing aunt came out in vocal support of vaccination on my Facebook page.  Then I realized . . . Aunt Karla's old enough to remember polio.  And when you just got measles and mumps and so forth.  She knows the difference; of course she prefers vaccination.

Yup.  My folks grew up in the '30s and '40s.  They knew kids who wound up disfigured or killed by these diseases.  If they were still around I can only imagine the colorful language they'd use to describe anti-vaccine1 nitwits. 

I know the vaccination schedule is much more aggressive than when I was a kid, but still. 

And all of this is due to an unethical medical researcher who was paid by a rival manufacturer to discredit the MMR vaccine.  Andrew Wakefield is single-handedly responsible for one of the biggest medical crises in history, and how he hasn't been shunned to the point where he has to live in the desert is a mystery to me. 

1.  I've decided to stop using the term "anti-vax", as the VAX was an awesome machine and what I cut my teeth on as a larval programmer in college.  I don't want associated in any way with these idiots.

Offline bknight

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2019, 03:21:23 PM »
It is apparent that when inoculations against measles, however done, stop measles outbreaks quickly follow.  To the antivaxxers, perhaps you might figure this into your child protecting procedures.


gillianren, I do see where Clark and King counties have outbreaks, I'm not sure that 25-35 cases is an epidemic, but then I'm not an editor of information services.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline gillianren

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2019, 11:23:27 AM »
The CDC considers an epidemic to be any notable increase of cases of a disease above the baseline to be an epidemic.  One or two cases in a disease that was practically eliminated but not quite probably wouldn't be; a couple of dozen is.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline Northern Lurker

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2019, 04:36:15 PM »
By the way, does anyone have any clue what motivates the anti-vaccine people? I haven't personally met any, but I'd guess some motivations would be:
-need to be special by having special knowledge. Bit same as many hoaxies
-conspirational mindset. Big pharma has it's evil side: they buy patents and hike prices to boost their profits without any regard to the people who actually need those medicines. Somehow some people need invent something else on top of that.
-need to challenge authorities and experts. "Everyone's opinion is equally valid".
-inability to assess risks. "Vaccination has some risk therefore I don't vaccinate and have zero risk" without considering the risks of not vaccinating.
-bandwagon effect. It's trendy not to vaccinate.
-peer pressure
-snakeoil salesmen who promote myths about vaccines to sell "natural" preventions and cures to preventable diseases
Anything else?

Lurky

edit to add -superstitions religious beliefs
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 05:32:55 PM by Northern Lurker »

Offline Echnaton

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2019, 06:49:27 PM »
By the way, does anyone have any clue what motivates the anti-vaccine people?

I overheard one the other day that was preaching, for a lack of a better description, about "heard" immunity.  That is that the real way to gain a group resistance to spreading disease (actually herd immunity) is through through telling others about it. So when hearing the words, one gains heard immunity. No kidding.

I was only in the room, not interacting in the conversation, so I left rather than embarrass myself with an outburst. 

I have a sister-in-law that is just about as kooky and recently got some type of certificate as a naturopath healer.  Although she has had a recurrence of breast cancer and thankfully is seeing a physician rather than seeking naturopathic treatments.  When she talks about this stuff, it is just a long stream of gish gallop without any tangible meaning.

It is some sort of religious faith healing for these people.  That is the only way I can fathom this kind of kookiness.

More charitably perhaps, my s-in-l is one of those types of people that seem to be perpetually perplexed and frightened by the world.  Despite her doing quite OK in life and raising two very bright kids, the world around her just doesn't make any sense to her.  It seems to me like her way of simplifying life and coping with a perplexing and confusing environment that she just can't grasp.
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline gillianren

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2019, 10:54:52 AM »
Apparently, there is also a strong connection to belief in bodily purity--people who preach about toxins are more likely to fear vaccines, because you're putting all that nasty stuff in your body.

Wakefield, of course, was motivated by profit.  Jenny McCarthy, I believe, is motivated by three factors--for one, a genuine need to understand why she has an autistic child.  (Who she now believes is cured, because yeah.  That poor kid.)  For another, a need to feel smart, especially given how frequently people have called her stupid over the years.  And for a third, a need for attention.  She'd faded from public view until she hopped on the anti-vaccine bandwagon.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline Echnaton

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2019, 11:57:11 AM »
Although she has had a recurrence of breast cancer and thankfully is seeing a physician rather than seeking naturopathic treatments.

Unfortunate news. We've just heard that the S-in-L has rejected chemotherapy for a more "natural" approach as taught by her training.  While rejecting chemo can be a rational choice, she is far too young for the choice to be made on "I've lived a good long life and expect to be dead in soon either way." Doing so for naturopathic reasons is not rational.  Any more that rejecting vaccines is rational. The motivations for either are not really comprehensible to me. Alas, rational is not always enough.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 11:58:55 AM by Echnaton »
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline bknight

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2019, 12:09:14 PM »
Although she has had a recurrence of breast cancer and thankfully is seeing a physician rather than seeking naturopathic treatments.

Unfortunate news. We've just heard that the S-in-L has rejected chemotherapy for a more "natural" approach as taught by her training.  While rejecting chemo can be a rational choice, she is far too young for the choice to be made on "I've lived a good long life and expect to be dead in soon either way." Doing so for naturopathic reasons is not rational.  Any more that rejecting vaccines is rational. The motivations for either are not really comprehensible to me. Alas, rational is not always enough.


My doctor commented after prostate cancer was detected, you have +/- 10 years remaining so he recommended radiation treatment as opposed to surgery.  So, I guess I'll go along with the idea the closer to expected longevity influences your choice of treatments.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline gillianren

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2019, 10:22:22 AM »
I had a professor who stopped taking chemo because he was violently allergic to the chemo drugs--as in, they'd have killed him faster than the cancer did.  But he knew that he was going to die, and choosing to go off chemo gave him a little more time to say his goodbyes.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline Echnaton

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Re: I cracked the government-big pharma vaccine conspiracy
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2019, 09:10:55 PM »
My doctor commented after prostate cancer was detected, you have +/- 10 years remaining so he recommended radiation treatment as opposed to surgery.
Both my father and grandfather made the same decision for their prostate cancers and eventually died of other causes.
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett