Author Topic: Charlie Duke comments about holes in boulder  (Read 339 times)

Offline mako88sb

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Charlie Duke comments about holes in boulder
« on: December 23, 2018, 10:42:54 AM »
At about the 20:55 mark Charlie mentions how they look like drill holes. Of course somebody finds that suspicious. I don't think meteorite impacts would resemble that or are they in fact just larger versions of zap pits?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E81SeSIGSrk&lc=z23sxzmgoxede30zm04t1aokgyqz4ajaxzutdmtllu5irk0h00410.1544588267842072

Offline bknight

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Re: Charlie Duke comments about holes in boulder
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2018, 11:28:42 AM »
It looked as they were maybe 200 yards from the crater wall and Charlie is indicating what it looked like to him.  No real issue here.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline mako88sb

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Re: Charlie Duke comments about holes in boulder
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2018, 02:44:47 PM »
They were actually looking at a boulder when he made the comment so looks like they have a pretty close view of it.

Offline bknight

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Re: Charlie Duke comments about holes in boulder
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2018, 04:20:53 PM »
I guess I jumped the gun a bit.  Yes, they are standing by a rather large rock, when Duke make the comment. 
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline mako88sb

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Re: Charlie Duke comments about holes in boulder
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2018, 07:49:24 PM »
Had a chance to look through some Apollo 16 magazines. I'm thinking AS16-106-17392 might be showing the boulder from a different angle? The series AS16-106-17410 to 17417 could be follow up shots. I'll have to check the mission report to see what's said at that time. Or am I off with the first image?

Offline mako88sb

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Re: Charlie Duke comments about holes in boulder
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2018, 10:51:11 PM »
Looks like I was right about the photo and here's the transcript part of that EVA:

07 00 40 23 LMP Okay, Tony, 1 got three chips off of the rock (13)
scattered over about a 2-meter area. One of them is
too big to go in the bags, but the other - the one (SAMP 63350,55)(PHO 106 17413-16)
is right now going in 429.

07 00 40 49 LMP Get this other rock. (13)(SAMP 60017)(PHO 106 17417; 116 18670-71; 117 18727-30)

07 00 41 17 LMP And, Tony, this rock here looks I ike the same - (13)(SAMP 60017)
it's the same character as the ones up on the rim.

07 00 41 34 LMP That great, huge black one that we sampled except (13)(SAMP 60017)
that we don't - that one up there didn't have any of
these holes in it. I can't really say what these
holes are here. They Just look - they're vugs - let's Just call them vugs. What caused them I don't
know.

07 00 42 00 CDR Yeah, they look more vuggy to me although they're (13)
round.

0700 42 03 LMP They look I ike dril I holes is what they look I ike. (13)

07 00 42 I I LMP Here, put those up for me. (13)(SAMP 63335,50,55; 60017)

07 00 42 19 CDR Okay, they look I ike the holes that you get in rocks (13)
where you have a venting of gas that comes up
through there like along

07 00 42 31 LMP Vesicle pipe.

07 00 42 33 CDR Yeah, vesicle pipe that's it.


I had to look up what vug mean't. So nothing unexpected, just something that needed clarifying. Amazing how everything was so well documented but I guess that's to be expected with such historic missions. I guess there's no point showing this to the person who found it all suspicious.

Offline Kiwi

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Re: Charlie Duke comments about holes in boulder
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2018, 06:45:49 AM »
Looks like I was right about the photo and here's the transcript part of that EVA:

Whenever possible, it's best to use the transcripts at the Apollo Lunar Surface Journals because better GETs are used (HHH:MM:SS instead of DD:HH:MM:SS), corrections have been made to the text, and the many additions from the astronauts and other contributors expand on what is happening. In this case, the section is The Third EVA - Station 13 at Shadow Rock.
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16.sta13.html

Regarding your opening post, it's amusingly common for hoaxlanders to make an issue out of a simple statement that starts, "It looks like..." Have they never used the same term themselves?

The astronauts frequently use that and similar terms when describing their environment, and naturally they must use terms that listeners on earth will understand. Sometimes they use geological terms, such as "bench", and sometimes they use layperson's terms.

The important thing is that "looks like" does not mean "is". The expression denotes similarity. I have borer holes in older parts of my house and they, too, look like drill holes, but they are not.

The movie linked in the opening post is the Nasa publicity film, "Apollo 16: Nothing So Hidden" and it's important that nobody takes any of those films as 100% accurate records of the missions. They are merely illustrative and made to be interesting for the lay public. Clips might be mixed, such as the famous two in this movie that show Young and Duke in the same area on different days, but they were actually videoed a very short time apart on the same day.

In many parts of these movies the dialogue is not what was actually said at the same time as whatever is seen onscreen, and this is one of many examples.

When Charlie Duke says
168:42:03 Duke: They look like drill holes is what they look like.
neither he nor John Young are on-camera at all.

At that moment the TV camera shows the distant landscape at Station 13 to the right of Shadow Rock, where Duke was a few seconds before. It pans slowly to the right and eventually catches up with Duke and Young at the rover, where they are reloading it in readiness for their return to the lunar module.

The following typescript from part of "Apollo 16: Nothing So Hidden" might be in synch with the clip above, and with the GETs it illustrates how pieces are mixed. For instance, House Rock is shown after Shadow Rock, but it was actually the first of the two.

0:20:01   GET 166:09:13  Heading to North Ray Crater — 16mm film
0:20:03   GET 166:16:19  Duke:  "Hey, Tony, it seems to me this is a more subdued surface..."
0:20:16   GET 166:19:21  Young:  "I got to keep my eye on the driving."
0:20:19   Bill Muehlberger
0:20:21   Jim Lovell
0:20:24   Jack Schmitt
0:20:27   GET 166:47:14  Young:  "Man, does this thing have steep walls."
0:20:51   GET 168:35:32  Duke:  "You do that in West Texas, and you get a rattlesnake."
0:21:00   GET 167:01:28  Tony England:  "How about rolling that one over?"
0:21:05   GET 167:36:10  Heading to house rock — Young:  "Look at the size of that biggie."
0:21:34   Bill Muehlberger:  "That big, black dot."
0:21:43   Continuing to house rock
0:21:59   Bill Muehlberger
0:22:06   GET 167:42:03  Duke:  "Look at the size of that rock."
0:22:10   [-] (Unidentified person)
0:22:14   GET 167:42:10  Duke:  "The closer I get to it, the bigger it is."
0:22:22   Bill Muehlberger:  "And as our crew slowly..."
0:22:28   Jack Schmitt finishes the line with, "...disappears into the sunset."
0:22:35   GET 167:43:15  Young:  "Don't get too near to the edge of that thing."
0:22:47   Bill Muehlberger:  "Keep going!"
0:22:50   GET 167:55:30  Young:  "I can't believe it."
0:22:59   GET 147:32:11  Tony England:  "And we encourage you just to look for some variety."
0:23:02   Returning to the rover
0:23:08   GET 143:47:37  England:  "We think you could just about head south now."
0:23:13   GET 169:14:30   Duke:  "Home again, home again!  Jiggety jig!"
0:23:23   Showers of lunar dirt — 16mm film
0:23:35   GET 169:15:26  Duke:  "And that's a beautiful sight."
0:23:38   Entering the LM
0:23:46   GET 170:50:35  Young:  "Boy, Houston, the beauty of this place is absolutely incredible."
0:23:52   Gene Kranz
0:23:56   [FAO]
0:23:57   Gene Kranz
0:24:06   GET 175:31:47  Lift-off from the moon — rear panels blasted upward
0:24:14   GET 175:32:07  View of landing site from LM during pitchover.  Duke:  "What a ride.  What a ride."
0:24:24   Inspecting the LM — Messier craters on the left — Scene is flipped left to right
0:24:32   CSM
0:24:37   GET 177:41:18  Manoeuvring for docking
0:24:46   Reunited aboard the CM
0:25:01   GET 218:39:46  25 April 1972 — Ken Mattingly's EVA

« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 07:06:28 AM by Kiwi »
Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)
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Offline mako88sb

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Re: Charlie Duke comments about holes in boulder
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2018, 01:39:55 PM »
Thanks Kiwi. I took some time to read through all of that. Always interesting to go through these kind of reports, especially with additional info being filled in to help explain some things.