Author Topic: Flat Earth  (Read 3069 times)

Offline gillianren

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Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2019, 11:22:48 AM »
That just proves that you're better than I am. I'm no longer interested in convincing anyone. I live in the southern United States, and if I couldn't call idiots idiots, my blood pressure would be uncontrollable.

We have to keep trying to convince people.  Maybe not you personally, but in general.  I keep going back to vaccines, but that's the one where it's literally life-or-death to change minds.  If we don't change minds, people will die.  People are already dying.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline ka9q

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Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2019, 05:50:43 PM »
I'm hoping those deaths (and ICU stays) will finally convince people. If not, we're even worse off than I thought.

Offline Allan F

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Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2019, 06:57:06 PM »
The vaccine deniers just do what conspiracist do: They don't take the real world evidence into account. Their own opinion - how uninformed it is - has more meaning to them than anything else.
Well, it is like this: The truth doesn't need insults. Insults are the refuge of a darkened mind, a mind that refuses to open and see. Foul language can't outcompete knowledge. And knowledge is the result of education. Education is the result of the wish to know more, not less.

Offline ka9q

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Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2019, 08:22:40 PM »
Yeah, but seeing your own kid (or even other kids) suffer has got to have some effect. Or at least I hope it does.


Offline Glom

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Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2019, 09:53:48 AM »
Yeah, but seeing your own kid (or even other kids) suffer has got to have some effect. Or at least I hope it does.
Hasn't worked so far. It is bizarre dissonance that says polio is a price worth paying, but it seems that the attitude of "my way even if it kills us" is become prevalent at the moment. I could point to other issues that follow this pattern.

I don't know why it has gotten worse. Is there something in the water? The air? Vaccines?

Offline gillianren

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Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2019, 10:35:33 AM »
Diehard anti-vaxxers won't change.  But fence-sitters can be changed, and that's where I concentrate.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline Peter B

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Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2019, 12:22:35 PM »
Yeah, but seeing your own kid (or even other kids) suffer has got to have some effect. Or at least I hope it does.
Hasn't worked so far. It is bizarre dissonance that says polio is a price worth paying, but it seems that the attitude of "my way even if it kills us" is become prevalent at the moment. I could point to other issues that follow this pattern.

I don't know why it has gotten worse. Is there something in the water? The air? Vaccines?

A comment that got to me recently, IIRC from an Aussie stand-up comedian, was along the lines of, "Stop saying that you'd prefer your child to be dead than to have autism."

But another interesting thing I've noticed is how people from completely different backgrounds can come to the same (kooky) position by very different paths.

For example I'd long considered that anti-vax attitudes were strongest in people of a left-wing, green/hippy persuasion. Only, reading an article on Breitbart showed similar popularity of anti-vaxism among the alt-right too. The first group develop it from their love of nature and dislike of all those nasty chemicals. But the second group appear to be anti-vax because they dislike medical corporatism, embrace rugged individualism and want to Stick It To The Man.

The first example I found was how those people of a left-wing, green/hippy persuasion, and socially conservative pentecostal Christians, shared a strong interest in "natural foods" and a dislike of additives.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2019, 01:28:39 PM »
Yeah, but seeing your own kid (or even other kids) suffer has got to have some effect. Or at least I hope it does.
Hasn't worked so far. It is bizarre dissonance that says polio is a price worth paying, but it seems that the attitude of "my way even if it kills us" is become prevalent at the moment. I could point to other issues that follow this pattern.

I don't know why it has gotten worse. Is there something in the water? The air? Vaccines?

A comment that got to me recently, IIRC from an Aussie stand-up comedian, was along the lines of, "Stop saying that you'd prefer your child to be dead than to have autism."

But another interesting thing I've noticed is how people from completely different backgrounds can come to the same (kooky) position by very different paths.

For example I'd long considered that anti-vax attitudes were strongest in people of a left-wing, green/hippy persuasion. Only, reading an article on Breitbart showed similar popularity of anti-vaxism among the alt-right too. The first group develop it from their love of nature and dislike of all those nasty chemicals. But the second group appear to be anti-vax because they dislike medical corporatism, embrace rugged individualism and want to Stick It To The Man.

The first example I found was how those people of a left-wing, green/hippy persuasion, and socially conservative pentecostal Christians, shared a strong interest in "natural foods" and a dislike of additives.

It's the Horseshoe Theory at work.
A simpler view is that cranks and kooks all suffer from crank magnetism regardless of their political leanings.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline twik

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Re: Flat Earth
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2019, 03:01:42 PM »
It's the Horseshoe Theory at work.
A simpler view is that cranks and kooks all suffer from crank magnetism regardless of their political leanings.

Once a crank has found a satisfactory target for crankery (vaccines, round earth, etc.), they can always find a justification based on their own political leanings.