Author Topic: Faking the moon landings  (Read 22891 times)

Offline bknight

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #225 on: May 21, 2018, 04:10:32 PM »
4/5 of cambo's links are to aulis, a lying site of scumbaggery, known to invent imaginary "experts" out of whole cloth.

That is home to the deceased Jack White, the very same that testified to the HSCA that he had never heard of photogrammetry after purporting to analyse photographs.

The same site is home to the discredited David Percy, whose nonsense was amply torn apart by svector, Jay, Datacable, STS and many others.

Auditioning for a new Star Wars writer?
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
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Offline cos

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #226 on: May 21, 2018, 06:22:38 PM »

Offline molesworth

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #227 on: May 22, 2018, 02:05:49 AM »
Auditioning for a new Star Wars writer?
I'm not sure someone who doesn't believe space flight is possible, is a good fit for a movie franchise about space...  ;D
Days spent at sea are not deducted from one's allotted span - Phoenician proverb

Offline raven

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #228 on: May 22, 2018, 05:58:28 AM »
Cambo, as a non-expert but with access to the world's largest interconnected source of information at my fingertips, let's say you managed to get off the fusion crust on a metric buttload of  lunar meteorites without leaving detectable traces of what was used (no mean feat given how intensely studied moon rocks have been) and let's say you find a way to re-add the zip pits and helium 3 to the outer layers, well, you still got problems. See, those meteorites didn't just fall yesterday. They've been  exposed air and water and other sources of weathering, leading to changes in their structure and composition compared to the practically pristine Apollo  and Soviet Luna samples. Oh, and their cosmic ray exposure ages tell us how long they've been on the surface.

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #229 on: May 22, 2018, 07:25:09 AM »
Cambo, as a non-expert but with access to the world's largest interconnected source of information at my fingertips, let's say you managed to get off the fusion crust on a metric buttload of  lunar meteorites without leaving detectable traces of what was used (no mean feat given how intensely studied moon rocks have been) and let's say you find a way to re-add the zip pits and helium 3 to the outer layers, well, you still got problems. See, those meteorites didn't just fall yesterday. They've been  exposed air and water and other sources of weathering, leading to changes in their structure and composition compared to the practically pristine Apollo  and Soviet Luna samples. Oh, and their cosmic ray exposure ages tell us how long they've been on the surface.

Save your breath. We're dealing with a troll. There is nothing rational about his arguments. There will be some magical device that can create these faked lunar samples, even though he has no idea what it is, because there must be. It's all fake, therefore whatever means are needed to fake it exist and anything that says otherwise is fake too. He hasn't done any research beyond HB sites, and has clearly seen very little of the record apart from those little clips and pictures they use to prove it was fake. The footage was all achieved using some improbable combination of methods that simply don't work in concert and cannot be applied to the whole unedited footage.

Cambo has already dismissed everything from NASA or any third party that supports Apollo as faked. He's dismissed all our expertise, qualifications and experience but cited other 'experts' that agree with him. There is absolutely no way to argue with someone who says he's willing to discuss proof but already dismissed anything that disagrees with his conclusions as invalid.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 07:27:36 AM by Jason Thompson »
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Offline nweber

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #230 on: May 22, 2018, 09:03:00 AM »
If they ever work out a new set of rules, part of it may indeed be consistent with Newton’s laws, but until then, we can’t say for certain. Newton’s laws were based on observations made on from earth.

Fixed that for you.

Yes, if it were only based on observations on earth, constant acceleration due to gravity towards the centre of the earth would be good enough for just about every application.

Offline nweber

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #231 on: May 22, 2018, 09:04:30 AM »
I'm not sure someone who doesn't believe space flight is possible, is a good fit for a movie franchise about space...  ;D

Oh, I think that's going a bit too far, if they could only make hobbit films with actors who believed hobbits were real, that would be rather limiting.

Offline Bryanpoprobson

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #232 on: May 22, 2018, 09:10:16 AM »
Quote
“a new GR or theory for gravity must also be consistent with Newton's laws”

If they ever work out a new set of rules, part of it may indeed be consistent with Newton’s laws, but until then, we can’t say for certain. Newton’s laws were based on observations made on earth.

“If you're going to dismiss such fundamental maths and science, then there's really no way to explain anything to you...”

That actually is not true, Newton devised his laws by observing the Heavens as well, he was particularly obsessed with the orbit of the moon around the Earth and realised that gravity influenced body's over astronomical distances.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say!" "Fools speak, because they have to say something!" (Plato)

Offline bknight

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #233 on: May 22, 2018, 12:31:09 PM »
Auditioning for a new Star Wars writer?
I'm not sure someone who doesn't believe space flight is possible, is a good fit for a movie franchise about space...  ;D

You misunderstood or I didn't post clearly.  That comment was for Abaddon.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Online AtomicDog

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #234 on: May 22, 2018, 12:58:46 PM »
Quote from: AtomicDog
Cambo, do you still think that you need blueprints to to show that the Lunar Rover could be carried on the LM and unfolded? If so, why?

Quote from: cambo
Of course not, although it would have been yet another big challenge to fly and land for the first time, with the extra weight on one side

Almost missed this one. Notice how cambo has deftly tapdanced away from his previous contentions?

Quote from: cambo
There is one set of evidence that would be irrefutable proof that these incredible achievements were at least possible, and that’s the plans on how to build the Saturn V rocket, the Lunar Lander and even the Lunar Rover. 

Here cambo states that examining Saturn and Rover blueprints would prove to him that the Apollo program was at least possible. When asked how he could determine this by examining the blueprints, he says:

Quote from: cambo
I couldn’t possibly answer that question until I saw them. I know what the plans are for and what these contraptions are meant to do, so who knows, I may be capable of proving to myself that at least the Rover could possibly fold up inside the Landers trunk and then unfold into a functional moon buggy.

That's right; cambo thought it went inside the Descent Stage, showing that he had no real idea how the LM was constructed. But I digress.

This quote indicates that he has doubts that the LRV could be attached to the Descent Stage and unfolded on the Moon, as advertised. When shown video that the Rover could be seen being deployed, no blueprints necessary, he goes:

Quote from: cambo
And? We all know it was built to unfold, but I need the plans to show how it was constructed, in order to fold and unfold. Not just a set of diagrams showing where all the bits went, you get that sort of thing in a flat pack from a furniture store.

He now admits that the Rover can unfold, but still needs to see the blueprints so he can see how. Why? You don't need to see blueprints of an umbrella to prove it can unfold - just open it. He then goes silent on the subject. When I prod him for an answer:

Quote from: AtomicDog
Cambo, do you still think that you need blueprints to to show that the Lunar Rover could be carried on the LM and unfolded? If so, why?

He pretends that Rover deployment was never an issue:


Quote from: cambo
Of course not, although it would have been yet another big challenge to fly and land for the first time, with the extra weight on one side

And handwaves away the deployment thing, and says that his actual concern was the weight load and balance problems that flying with a LRV attached to the LM would cause, even though aerospace designers and flight engineers have had to deal with balance issues since the birth of aviation.

I've noticed this tactic of his in other replies - backing away from his contentions while hoping no one notices, and pretending that what he was vociferously arguing in a previous post was not the real issue. I just thought I'd point this out.
"There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death." - Isaac Asimov

Offline Jason Thompson

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #235 on: May 22, 2018, 01:41:18 PM »
I've noticed this tactic of his in other replies - backing away from his contentions while hoping no one notices, and pretending that what he was vociferously arguing in a previous post was not the real issue. I just thought I'd point this out.

It's a standard tactic. I can only assume he gets some kind of perverse pleasure from twisting and dodging whatever is offered to him in order to avoid answering the question of what would make him consider that he is simply wrong. He's already handwaved away anything and everything that can be offered up, and demonstrated that he has a) no idea of what most of the record includes (scaled down LM for distance shots! Ha!) and b) lacks the ability or integrity to admit he is holding entirely conflicting positions with regard to the evidence (experts that agree with him are experts, experts in the same or other relevant fields that disagree with him are not, even if they obtained their expertise in the same way).

At every step the bar of 'acceptable proof' will be raised as soon as the one standard he asks for is actually provided. The rover is just one example. 
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline molesworth

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #236 on: May 22, 2018, 01:48:51 PM »
I'm not sure someone who doesn't believe space flight is possible, is a good fit for a movie franchise about space...  ;D
Oh, I think that's going a bit too far, if they could only make hobbit films with actors who believed hobbits were real, that would be rather limiting.
Very true, although I think fantasy, hobbits and wizards my be a slightly different "suspension of disbelief" than science fiction.  And anyway, are you sure hobbits aren't real?...

You misunderstood or I didn't post clearly.  That comment was for Abaddon.
Sorry - I thought you were referring to Cambo's "creative writing" skills  ;D
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Offline molesworth

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #237 on: May 22, 2018, 02:06:32 PM »
Cambo, as a non-expert but with access to the world's largest interconnected source of information at my fingertips, let's say you managed to get off the fusion crust on a metric buttload of  lunar meteorites without leaving detectable traces of what was used (no mean feat given how intensely studied moon rocks have been) and let's say you find a way to re-add the zip pits and helium 3 to the outer layers, well, you still got problems. See, those meteorites didn't just fall yesterday. They've been  exposed air and water and other sources of weathering, leading to changes in their structure and composition compared to the practically pristine Apollo  and Soviet Luna samples. Oh, and their cosmic ray exposure ages tell us how long they've been on the surface.
There's also the issue of where do you find a metric buttload (is that more or less than a metric f---tonne?) of lunar meteorites - i.e. nearly 400 Kg of material (after processing) without anyone noticing it being collected, identified, processed and transported to the launches.

The story gets more and more nonsensical at every turn, and now we need teams of people scouring the planet for meteorites (in secret) plus loads of geologists to process them into "samples" - all of whom now need paying to ensure their life-long silence...
Days spent at sea are not deducted from one's allotted span - Phoenician proverb

Online AtomicDog

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #238 on: May 22, 2018, 02:33:52 PM »
 If they were from existing collections, didn't museums notice lunar meteorites disappearing? (They were in on it; pay them - forever)
"There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death." - Isaac Asimov

Offline cos

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Re: Faking the moon landings
« Reply #239 on: May 22, 2018, 07:30:29 PM »
Surely it is time for Cambo to post the story of the petrified wood given to a Dutch politician as proof that all the moon rocks were fake.  Yawn....