Author Topic: Sound on the moon?  (Read 3586 times)

Offline nickrulercreator

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Sound on the moon?
« on: January 22, 2018, 12:54:09 PM »
Note: Am not a HB. Just asking questions and looking for an answer. Pls. no hate, thanks. (also I'm typing quickly that's why my grammar sucks).

Came across this video:


Lot's of it is obviously explainable, usually just by the astronaut touching the object that's making the noise, but some of it is weird. Check out 1:48, for example. The object falls over and makes a metallic banging sound, but the astronaut doesn't appear to be touching it. There are some other noises like that, too, but not much. The footsteps are also explainable too because the feet act as a medium for the sound waves.

I have a few explanations, but they're not exactly solid.

1. The sound was caused by the astronaut touching the object. As for 1:48, for example, it may look like the astronaut's foot is touching the object, though that's iffy.

2. The sound travels through the ground. This is, IMHO, a more likely explanation for 1:48. Though, not for all the other parts.

3. Becuase there were 2 astronauts, it's possible the sound originated from whatever the other astronaut was doing too.

4. Because sound in mission control could also be picked up, it's possible that some sounds came from Houston.

and, lastly, i've seen another thread on this forum discussing the same ideas of sound. JayUtah had an excellent, and very technical explanation:

LM was mic'ed; it had a cabin recorder.  It was not "powered down" in the least; it was the relay for the suit circuit.  The suits used a sort of daisy-chained VHF circuit which was picked up by the VHF antennas on the LM and upconverted to the S-band to Earth.  Outside the range of the LM, the LRV played the role of VHF-USB relay.

Though I can't make any opinion on much of the technical aspects, this seems reasonable.

I also know that electronics and vacuum tubes can sometimes act as microphones and send any sound data too.

Is there any other explanation? Which of these is most likely?
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Offline Apollo 957

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2018, 05:50:35 PM »
I assume someone, somewhere has gone to the original footage/soundtrack and verified that the sounds have not been added later by Team Hoax pranksters?

The internut is filled with Apollo stills which have been doctored by Team Hoax.

Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2018, 06:36:00 PM »
I assume someone, somewhere has gone to the original footage/soundtrack and verified that the sounds have not been added later by Team Hoax pranksters?

The internut is filled with Apollo stills which have been doctored by Team Hoax.

Good point. Where would one find all the original tapes, though. Surely they must be in an archive if this video contains them, or scattered over the internet. I must look into this.
This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

Offline Apollo 957

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2018, 07:03:09 PM »
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/video16.html

Journal text links have the dialogue, so if this is present in the YT version, you can track the video clip to match

Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2018, 08:11:37 PM »
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/video16.html

Journal text links have the dialogue, so if this is present in the YT version, you can track the video clip to match

Found 1:48 here https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/a16.sta11.html#1670637 It begins around 1:55 in the video. A thud can be heard when the object drops, though I don't think it's the object. A soft, but high-pitched whirring noise also begins at the same time, so it's possible that the sound is either whatever the object is being picked up by the VHF signal as an electric current, or something else. It's weird, though.

If someone else with better knowledge on this than I would comment, that would be extremely helpful.
This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2018, 12:10:51 AM »
Note: Am not a HB. Just asking questions

Just a word to the wise (no hate or anything like that) but "Just Asking Questions" is not a term you want to use around here... we call it JAQing-off, its a common tactic used by HB's before they show their true colours and start bringing up long debunked stuff.

To address your concerns, I would not take ANYTHING posted by HB's on Youtube at face value. They are not past editing videos to support their claims. You need to trace the original video.
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Offline Apollo 957

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2018, 03:58:54 AM »
There's an open mic at CapCom, so is there any real proof the sound came from the Moon's end of the conversation? Mere coincidence that it was generated at the same time as the bag drops?

Also, the bag drop takes place as the boldened action in the transcript;

"167:08:00 Duke: Yeah, right. And it's really shocked, whatever it is. It looks like chalk, Tony, it's so shocked. It's about pebble size, and it's broken open. Oh, let's make it 5 centimeters long, broken open. John, could you bring me a...Let me get this one documented. (Pause)

[Charlie puts the SCB down on the ground and tries to stand it upright, but the weight of the 500-mm camera makes it fall over. In Houston, there is a discussion about having Charlie take the film magazine out of his Hasselblad and putting it in the 500-mm camera.]

167:08:37 Duke: Okay. The polarizing filter's coming off (the LMP Hasselblad he is wearing). I hope."

So we have a 500mm camera falling over on a layer of regolith, atop solid rock. The astronaut is standing right next to it. Sound transference through rock and suit to the mike, or is that too much of a stretch?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 04:11:26 AM by Apollo 957 »

Offline raven

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 10:44:44 AM »
There's plenty of other evidence they're in hard vacuum, like the behaviour of the dust and the flag and an impromptu pendulum. What happened here? Sadly, we can't say for certain, I think. Information is limited. All we can do is conjecture. However, I will say, a non sound through air explanation fits the rest of the facts better.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 11:00:48 AM by raven »

Online bknight

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 03:49:58 PM »
I reviewed one of the sounds occurring at 1:50 when a collection bag falls over.  The caption says that voice removed and slow removed.  The video A16v.16070637 has the same event at 1:56 and I hear no sound.  I suspect that a "sound" was dubbed in when the voice was removed either maliciously or legitimate error.  Slow removed?  The original was taped live in normal motion, too many corrections attempted on this video for it to be factual.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
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Offline nomuse

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2018, 10:08:33 AM »
The possible identity of certain stray sounds is an interesting question, but it in my mind has nothing to do with a the possibility of a hoax.

Why? Because there's no reason for an open mic. None of the sound intended to be in the final production is available on the sound stage, after all. It is all suit mics and effects. MOS is practically industry standard anyhow and that's the only sensible way to film.

Okay...there is a bit of wriggle room. Over at the BBC they shot "Doctor Who" on such a short schedule all the dialog was captured on set. Mistakes and all, dropped props and all. Similarly, they might have had the voice actors sitting around in the booth doing dialog for an Apollo shoot and not had time to edit out when the director dropped his pencil or something.

So...okay, it's not quite as ludicrous as claiming live sound off the set in the era of FILM cameras, especially early ones. But when you add other Hoax Believer nonsense like a director talking out loud giving directions during the shot ("Talk!") and high-speed fans running to make the flags look right....well....

Offline AtomicDog

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2018, 07:26:47 PM »
That's the same thing I said a few years ago. Why in the world would you have open microphones on a soundstage that is supposed to represent a VACUUM?
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Offline smartcooky

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2018, 10:05:32 PM »
...there's no reason for an open mic. None of the sound intended to be in the final production is available on the sound stage, after all. It is all suit mics and effects. MOS is practically industry standard anyhow and that's the only sensible way to film.

None of this matters to the stupid HB's though does it? Many of their whackadoo claims contradict each other... they simply see/hear something they are incapable of understanding and conclude suspicious anomaly = hoax because reasons!

Their ability to draw conclusions from evidence is about on par with that Greek/Swiss idiot with the bad hair...

I don't understand it.... therefore it must be aliens
I can't explain it.... therefore it must be aliens
I don't know.... therefore it must be aliens
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 10:15:44 PM by smartcooky »
► What you can assert without evidence, I can dismiss without evidence
► When you argue with idiots you risk being dragged down to their level and beaten with experience.
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Offline TexMex

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2018, 01:05:48 AM »
The video here is from a video camera. The video camera does not record sound.

The audio is from the astronaut's communications radio.  Note, this is the astronaut in the video.  No astronaut is holding the camera.  The microphone for that system is inside the spacesuit, just in front of the astronaut's mouth.  So the microphone is not in a vacuum, and the sound has lots of air, water and solids to travel through.  Air in the spacesuit, water in the astronaut, and solids in the... well everything.  And as we all learned in 6th grade science sound travel better in liquids and solids than in gasses.  This is why deaf people "listen" to music by holding a loud audio speaker.

Close a box and the vibration travels from box to glove to astronaut, suit, and microphone.  Move quickly and the spacesuit itself is likely to make some noise.  It's 3 layers, not form fitting, and parts of it are going to slap against the astronaut, and other layers/parts.  Jump around in the dirt and your boots grinding into the dirt make vibrations that travel through you to your microphone.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 02:07:15 AM by TexMex »

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2018, 09:16:16 PM »
The video here is from a video camera. The video camera does not record sound.

The audio is from the astronaut's communications radio.  Note, this is the astronaut in the video.  No astronaut is holding the camera.  The microphone for that system is inside the spacesuit, just in front of the astronaut's mouth.  So the microphone is not in a vacuum, and the sound has lots of air, water and solids to travel through.  Air in the spacesuit, water in the astronaut, and solids in the... well everything.  And as we all learned in 6th grade science sound travel better in liquids and solids than in gasses.  This is why deaf people "listen" to music by holding a loud audio speaker.

Close a box and the vibration travels from box to glove to astronaut, suit, and microphone.  Move quickly and the spacesuit itself is likely to make some noise.  It's 3 layers, not form fitting, and parts of it are going to slap against the astronaut, and other layers/parts.  Jump around in the dirt and your boots grinding into the dirt make vibrations that travel through you to your microphone.

Aren't the astronaut radios on VOX?  If so, how much extraneous noise is needed before the Vox starts picking it up?

Online bknight

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Re: Sound on the moon?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2018, 07:02:59 AM »
The video here is from a video camera. The video camera does not record sound.

The audio is from the astronaut's communications radio.  Note, this is the astronaut in the video.  No astronaut is holding the camera.  The microphone for that system is inside the spacesuit, just in front of the astronaut's mouth.  So the microphone is not in a vacuum, and the sound has lots of air, water and solids to travel through.  Air in the spacesuit, water in the astronaut, and solids in the... well everything.  And as we all learned in 6th grade science sound travel better in liquids and solids than in gasses.  This is why deaf people "listen" to music by holding a loud audio speaker.

Close a box and the vibration travels from box to glove to astronaut, suit, and microphone.  Move quickly and the spacesuit itself is likely to make some noise.  It's 3 layers, not form fitting, and parts of it are going to slap against the astronaut, and other layers/parts.  Jump around in the dirt and your boots grinding into the dirt make vibrations that travel through you to your microphone.

Aren't the astronaut radios on VOX?  If so, how much extraneous noise is needed before the Vox starts picking it up?

I can't tell you the exact amount of sound energy that must be present for the Vox to "engage", but I can tell you that commercial models a few years ago and used extensively in and out of my profession differs dramatically.  I'm not sure if it is the brand of mic or the amount of use.  There were times that I had to "blow" into the mic to get it to engage or the first word likely never got transmitted, at the very least the first syllable. NASA may have had top line equipment for Apollo and thus you might have a "whack" when hammering in core tubes etc.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan