Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 32032 times)

Offline Obviousman

  • Mars
  • ***
  • Posts: 390
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #525 on: January 19, 2019, 03:41:42 AM »
I remember asking my American friends why they were voting for Trump; the general answer was:

"They are both shitty candidates but we'll recover from Trump quicker."

I can't help but look back at them and shake my head.

Offline Echnaton

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1485
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #526 on: January 19, 2019, 07:47:40 AM »
I used to think that we'd be better off let Trump run out his four years. I thought that the cult of personality surrounding him would be best left without a martyr or cause to rally around. But now I'm not sure it would be.  It would really be great if he would just do us all a favor and keel over.
Pence may not be quite as embarrassing in a very easily mockable way,  but his religious conservatism, in my opinion, is no doubt behind many of Trump's more outright bigoted moves. I'd rather not see him as President. VP is bad enough!

I agree to some point. My main concern is that Trump is moving toward his own power mad extremism. His call for "emergency" confiscation of private property along the border is really over the top for me.  He will get a lot of resistance for that here in Texas.
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Echnaton

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1485
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #527 on: January 19, 2019, 08:05:20 AM »
Based on an article I've read in the "New Yorker" magazine, Pence is a dangerously ambitious Christian extremist who is pretty much in the pocket of the Koch brothers.


When the New Yorker starts talking about the Koch Brothers, run for cover.  The magazine and the left in general use them as their version of an existential threat to some undefined "democracy." The Nancy MacLean Democracy in Chains conspiracy theory rant of a book is an example of where this all leads.

The Kochs were early and large opponents of Trump and have never cared for institutionalized big government/religion types like Pence.  They are not obviously religions. 


In this regard I can see some similarities between Trump and, of all people, Hugo Chavez of Venezuela:

No doubt. Populist demagogues all basically run on the same script of developing an existential threat out of problem and use it to maintain their own popularity. Well all politicians do this, some are more willing than others to take it to extremes and at carry campaign rhetoric into governance. Trump and Chavez are notable examples. 

I had a discussion with a long time friend of mine the other night who is a big supporter of the border wall.  The number of obvious factual errors he said were stunning. Including things like illegal immigrants don't pay taxes so their children shouldn't be in schools. Texas doesn't have an income tax, but collects sales and property taxes, which are paid by everyone that  buys anything or lives somewhere. So in fact, they support the Texas tax base just like citizens do.

Trump's border wall is just despicable.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 08:08:36 AM by Echnaton »
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline gillianren

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1766
    • My Letterboxd journal
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #528 on: January 19, 2019, 11:50:02 AM »
I think Pence will be hamstrung by the whole thing--for one thing, he'll be battling a Democratic House the whole way.  I would also, to be honest, be quite surprised if there isn't enough evidence to get him, too.  I also think this shutdown is helping to fracture Trump's base in a way nothing else would.  The military isn't getting paid.  I'm deeply concerned about getting my Social Security check next month and was frankly shocked to get it this month.  (I don't make enough on my Patreon to cover more than about a single meal a month.)  Any economic growth that was happening is getting destroyed by the number of people affected by the shutdown.  The quote that I think sums up what's damaging his support is the guy who said it was "hurting the wrong people."
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline nomuse

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 859
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #529 on: January 19, 2019, 01:53:27 PM »
Apparently the Brits are seriously looking into rumors that some of the same skullduggery that aided the Hamberdler was also behind Brexit. Not that the Orangeman (as my Irish-leaning dad calls him) needed outside help. I'm unhappily willing to believe my countrymen are just that destructive.

Offline Peter B

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 810
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #530 on: January 19, 2019, 07:47:33 PM »
Based on an article I've read in the "New Yorker" magazine, Pence is a dangerously ambitious Christian extremist who is pretty much in the pocket of the Koch brothers.


When the New Yorker starts talking about the Koch Brothers, run for cover.  The magazine and the left in general use them as their version of an existential threat to some undefined "democracy." The Nancy MacLean Democracy in Chains conspiracy theory rant of a book is an example of where this all leads.

Point taken. Though the article had sources for every statement they made. And I still think my reasons for not wanting to impeach Trump still stand - for political and pragmatic reasons I think it's a bad idea, at least at the moment.

Quote
The Kochs were early and large opponents of Trump and have never cared for institutionalized big government/religion types like Pence.  They are not obviously religions. 

Again, I take your point. But isn't it practical to use the tools which are available? Compromise happens all the time in politics - in theory it lies at the heart of the American system. If Pence is ambitious and needs funds, and if the Kochs have money and need a candidate, then it makes sense that they bond over what they have in common and quietly ignore what they don't.

Offline Peter B

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 810
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #531 on: January 19, 2019, 08:09:44 PM »
I think Pence will be hamstrung by the whole thing--for one thing, he'll be battling a Democratic House the whole way.  I would also, to be honest, be quite surprised if there isn't enough evidence to get him, too.

In a way I think this might even be worse, depending on the order events take place. American democracy just about survived the departure of Agnew followed by Nixon, largely because Gerald Ford was widely respected. If Trump had to replace Pence I doubt his ability to make as good a selection.

Quote
I also think this shutdown is helping to fracture Trump's base in a way nothing else would.  The military isn't getting paid.  I'm deeply concerned about getting my Social Security check next month and was frankly shocked to get it this month.  (I don't make enough on my Patreon to cover more than about a single meal a month.)  Any economic growth that was happening is getting destroyed by the number of people affected by the shutdown.  The quote that I think sums up what's damaging his support is the guy who said it was "hurting the wrong people."

I hope you're right. Because Trump's ability to rouse his base with Twitter despite whatever pain they're experiencing seems pretty impressive from this side of the Pacific.

Offline Echnaton

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1485
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #532 on: January 19, 2019, 08:23:09 PM »
And I still think my reasons for not wanting to impeach Trump still stand

Absolutely.  It has been also mine opinion until lately when Trump has made me more worried. It is a judgement with no right answer. 

Though the article had sources for every statement they made.

So did Nancy Maclean.  It is just that her sources didn't say what she said they did.  I haven't read the article in question so I can't address that in specific though.  It is just that there is so much propaganda about the Kochs from the left that it takes a lot to get me interesting in reading anything. Bashing the Kochs is a major fundraising tool for them.

if the Kochs have money and need a candidate

Need a candidate?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 08:29:20 PM by Echnaton »
The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Offline Echnaton

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1485
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #533 on: January 19, 2019, 09:41:34 PM »
I also think this shutdown is helping to fracture Trump's base in a way nothing else would.

It has started to in Texas, where it would have the greatest impact. Most of the Texas border is private property.  Ranchers rely on the Rio Grande for watering cattle.  There is one National Park and one National Recreation Area that make use of the Rio Grande.  Several State Parks and wildlife management areas are also on the border.  I'd certainly like to see the environmental impact report on this. Border city mayors are opposed, though they are largely Democrats.

We all have to live with this and it seems that as Trump gets more and more hell bent on this, some people, other than maybe my bigoted friend, are starting to take a closer look. I think if Trump tries his emergency power strategy, it will further fracture his coalition in Texas, I hope.   


The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. —Samuel Beckett

Online Al Johnston

  • Earth
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #534 on: January 20, 2019, 11:12:50 AM »
.. largely because Gerald Ford was widely respected.

As evidenced by "... played too much football with his helmet off" and "... can't walk and chew gum at the same time" :D
"Cheer up!" they said. "It could be worse!" they said.
So I did.
And it was.

Offline gillianren

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1766
    • My Letterboxd journal
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #535 on: January 20, 2019, 12:20:25 PM »
Hey, Gerald Ford had the best attendance record on the Warren Commission!

I've read that not one Representative from a district along the border supports the wall.  That includes Texas Republicans.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline Jason Thompson

  • Saturn
  • ****
  • Posts: 1444
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #536 on: January 21, 2019, 07:14:53 AM »
Seems that here and there a basic tenet of negotiation has been missed. 'I won't negotiate unless you give me this thing I want up front' rather undermines the point of negotiations in the first place. Here we have the opposition leader insisting he won't work on negotiating a deal until he has a guarantee that there will be a deal (yes, really!). Over there somehow things have gone from 'we will build a wall and Mexico will pay for it' to 'we won't pay our own people unless they agree to hand over the money to build that wall'.

Congratulations to all for doing more damage and potential damage to their countries than the thing the supposedly damaging thing they are trying to prevent ever would....
"There's this idea that everyone's opinion is equally valid. My arse! Bloke who was a professor of dentistry for forty years does NOT have a debate with some eejit who removes his teeth with string and a door!"  - Dara O'Briain

Offline twik

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 591
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #537 on: January 21, 2019, 11:28:13 AM »
So, I'm spending today cancelling arrangements I'd made for an industry meeting in DC. Turns out they can't get regulators to speak due to the shutdown, and the organizing group was worried about air travel into the capital. That's a pretty sad state of affairs, when it's not safe to travel by air in the US.

Offline gillianren

  • Uranus
  • ****
  • Posts: 1766
    • My Letterboxd journal
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #538 on: January 21, 2019, 11:56:30 AM »
I have a friend whose husband is an air traffic controller.  He's missed two paychecks now, and they're worried about making their mortgage.  But, yes, he's expected to work every day anyway.
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

"Conspiracy theories are an irresistible labour-saving device in the face of complexity."  --Henry Louis Gates

Offline Peter B

  • Jupiter
  • ***
  • Posts: 810
Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #539 on: January 21, 2019, 07:06:22 PM »
I have a friend whose husband is an air traffic controller.  He's missed two paychecks now, and they're worried about making their mortgage.  But, yes, he's expected to work every day anyway.

Once the shutdown finishes would he get back-pay for the time he's been working without pay?