ApolloHoax.net

Apollo Discussions => The Hoax Theory => Topic started by: ChrLz on July 09, 2012, 05:48:51 AM

Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on July 09, 2012, 05:48:51 AM
For those interested in what happens to Apollo denial personalities...

Fattydash/DrTea/Patrick1000/dastardly/etc, etc has now finished his run at Abovetopsecret.com, where he posted as 'decisively'.  After 1200-ish posts and 17 different threads, all pretty much repeating the junk he brought up here and elsewhere, he has finally been banned.  I'm not sure what caused the banning in the end.. (- probably NASA - we all know how they control everything...)  I wonder where he will turn up next, although I'd have to say once you have been rejected at the ATS 'Skunkworks', there's not much between you and the gutter of complete Internet obscurity and irrelevance...

On the topic of persons no longer banging their drum, does anyone know for sure what became of IDW?

Feel free to add other names you have encountered and now think "Wonder what happened to..."

(Er, that's if this is OK with you LO - not sure if this is the appropriate forum for this, or even if it IS appropriate at all - so feel free to relocate or delete..!  If it is OK, can I suggest an expansion - would it be worthwhile perhaps to name names, ie list off all the known pseudonyms of our favorite sockpuppets, so those encountering them in the future might have a reference?)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on July 09, 2012, 11:33:59 AM
I wonder where he will turn up next...

YouTube.  Or maybe Spurstalk.

Quote
...complete Internet obscurity and irrelevance...

Sounds like YouTube to me.  Let them wallow around there with the "kute kitteh" videos.

Quote
would it be worthwhile perhaps to name names, ie list off all the known pseudonyms of our favorite sockpuppets, so those encountering them in the future might have a reference?)

Maybe, although it might feed the paranoia.  "The pro-NASA shills maintain a list of everyone who's ever spoken out against Apollo, and they track them across the internet."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Inanimate Carbon Rod on July 09, 2012, 11:37:15 AM
I encountered Rodin on this very board and have fond memories of his bizarre rantings.  He's still up to his tricks at DavidIcke.com and is past 15,000 posts - he sees Jewish/Zion conspiracies in everything, and is so extreme in his beliefs I'd say he's a master troll - nobody could believe the stuff he comes out with e.g. the Zapruder footage clearly shows Jackie shooting JFK, McDonalds food contains human flesh, the absence of conspiracy indicates conspiracy....
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on July 09, 2012, 02:27:00 PM
nobody could believe the stuff he comes out with
One thing I've learned about cranks is that I should never underestimate their ability to believe truly weird stuff. I often have the very same thought; "this guy must know he's wrong, nobody could believe this crap, he's gotta be a deliberate troll" but then they say and do things that indicate they really are genuinely and honestly deluded. For example, one of the few things that will consistently get them angry is to call them a liar - even though they do it constantly to us.

It must be like that strange condition called anosognosia, where someone can have a paralyzing stroke and be utterly unaware that one of their arms is paralyzed. It's not denial; they really are incapable of understanding that they're impaired.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Laurel on July 09, 2012, 02:46:42 PM
Anosognosia can accompany mental health issues as well. This might (emphasis on "might") explain some of what Ka9q is describing.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on July 09, 2012, 03:32:43 PM
This will probably end up in "off topic" anyhow.

IDW surfaces every now and then at Godlike Productions.  He's ban-and-delete on sight so his spoof IP's don't last long.

So Doctor Socks demonstrated once again the essential honesty of the hoaxie, eh?  Debate long enough to learn all the weaknesses in your arguments, then after changing forums, make sure not to mention any of those weaknesses again.

Oh, and re-tread and re-use any and all scientificky stuff OTHER people had to tell you, only this time passing them off as your own research.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on July 09, 2012, 04:04:14 PM
One thing I've learned about cranks is that I should never underestimate their ability to believe truly weird stuff. I often have the very same thought; "this guy must know he's wrong, nobody could believe this crap, he's gotta be a deliberate troll" but then they say and do things that indicate they really are genuinely and honestly deluded.

Time and again I have tried to put newly met hoax believers in that category only to be shown to be wrong.  Hoax belief and conspiracy thinking just seem to be a way of life for some people independent of the particular areas of personal interests to which the crank thinking is applied.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on July 09, 2012, 04:14:39 PM
IDW surfaces every now and then at Godlike Productions.  He's ban-and-delete on sight so his spoof IP's don't last long.

Tor is a quick and easy way to change your apparent IP address and I wonder how many Tor exit points are banned at various boards. When I was experimenting with Tor the other day, I found an IP that had been banned on one of the sites I frequent.  A few clicks of my mouse to get a fresh exit point IP and I could log in.  That problem is a prime reason not to allow one's personal internet service to be used as a exit point.  I suspect that if Tor IP sharing got a noticeably large number of sites to start banning Comcast IP's, the company would start sending me nastygrams or just boot me altogether.  Not that I would mind paying AT&T instead of Comcast.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on July 09, 2012, 06:23:58 PM
This will probably end up in "off topic" anyhow.

IDW surfaces every now and then at Godlike Productions.  He's ban-and-delete on sight so his spoof IP's don't last long.

So Doctor Socks demonstrated once again the essential honesty of the hoaxie, eh?  Debate long enough to learn all the weaknesses in your arguments, then after changing forums, make sure not to mention any of those weaknesses again.

Oh, and re-tread and re-use any and all scientificky stuff OTHER people had to tell you, only this time passing them off as your own research.
Oh, he is on GLP again, posting his mad paranoia.
In better news, the HUGE list of things IDW knows has resurfaced.

Gimme a few and I will find the links. The list of what IDW knows is hilarious.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on July 09, 2012, 06:35:30 PM
Here ya go. The list spans 3 consecutive posts. Recommended reading. It's hilarious.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message814739/pg1068#32005377 (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message814739/pg1068#32005377)

He was posting using this handle: A. Astro-physicist
User ID: 1347517

But that seems to have changed, and I lack the interest to care.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on July 09, 2012, 08:26:14 PM
Man, I wish their claims about how much debunkers get paid were correct.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Peter B on July 10, 2012, 08:17:05 AM
Here ya go. The list spans 3 consecutive posts. Recommended reading. It's hilarious.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message814739/pg1068#32005377 (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message814739/pg1068#32005377)

He was posting using this handle: A. Astro-physicist
User ID: 1347517

But that seems to have changed, and I lack the interest to care.

Wow.

He leaves this guy for dead:

http://www2.abc.net.au/science/k2/stn/december1999/posts/18799.shtm

especially in the areas of humility and irony.

(The forum in question is now closed, but a replacement is open at http://www.abcforums.com/forum.php
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on July 10, 2012, 12:17:23 PM
Here ya go. The list spans 3 consecutive posts. Recommended reading. It's hilarious.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message814739/pg1068#32005377 (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message814739/pg1068#32005377)

He was posting using this handle: A. Astro-physicist
User ID: 1347517

But that seems to have changed, and I lack the interest to care.

Wow.
I was lurking those threads on GLP as the list built up over time, purely for entertainment value.
It was an astonishing demonstration of extreme D-K. And paranoia. IDW really believes that the ebil gubmint is out to get him, and anyone disagreeing with him is an agent of said ebil gubmint. He is "ban on sight" at GLP and that is some achievement. Still, he continues to proxy his way back in until a mod finds/bans his latest proxy.

On the other hand:
He leaves this guy for dead:

http://www2.abc.net.au/science/k2/stn/december1999/posts/18799.shtm

especially in the areas of humility and irony.
Surely is a parody, but remains eyewatering in it's claims. I thank you for the diversion.

Title: Re: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on July 10, 2012, 03:29:07 PM
I wonder where he will turn up next...

YouTube.  Or maybe Spurstalk.

Quote
...complete Internet obscurity and irrelevance...

Sounds like YouTube to me.  Let them wallow around there with the "kute kitteh" videos.

Quote
would it be worthwhile perhaps to name names, ie list off all the known pseudonyms of our favorite sockpuppets, so those encountering them in the future might have a reference?)

Maybe, although it might feed the paranoia.  "The pro-NASA shills maintain a list of everyone who's ever spoken out against Apollo, and they track them across the internet."

Spurstalk? There's Apollohoax discussion on a football forum?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on July 10, 2012, 04:19:05 PM
Spurstalk? There's Apollohoax discussion on a football forum?

Football?  I thought it was the San Antonino Spurs basketball.
Title: Re: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on July 10, 2012, 04:23:38 PM
Spurstalk? There's Apollohoax discussion on a football forum?

Basketball.  And yes, they let FatFreddy88/Rocky/DaveC/<legion> run rampant in their off-topic sections.  They seem to have a very high tolerance (intentionally so) for trolls.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on July 10, 2012, 05:40:39 PM
If you have a board about fly fishing, if it has an off topic section, sooner or later FatFreddy will show up spamming the moon hoax.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Peter B on July 10, 2012, 11:33:38 PM
He leaves this guy for dead:

http://www2.abc.net.au/science/k2/stn/december1999/posts/18799.shtm

especially in the areas of humility and irony.
Surely is a parody, but remains eyewatering in it's claims. I thank you for the diversion.
Yes, it's a parody. :-)

It comes from the old Self Service Science Forum of Dr Karl Kruscelnicki (sp?) who is one of Australia's leading science communicators. Dr Karl used to have a slot on a very popular youth-oriented radio station, and couldn't handle all the calls he received. So he set up a website where people could ask the questions, and arranged for some subject-matter experts to provide answers.

The experts came to be known as Avatars, and were quite scrupulous in answering questions - they knew the mainstream of their field very well and kept out of fields outside their expertise.

But when it came to non-science topics, all the rules went out the window. So when someone asked one day what an Avatar was (given its other meanings elsewhere on the Internet), this was one Avatar's quite humble (cough cough) response.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mr Gorsky on July 11, 2012, 04:33:54 AM
Basketball.  And yes, they let FatFreddy88/Rocky/DaveC/<legion> run rampant in their off-topic sections.  They seem to have a very high tolerance (intentionally so) for trolls.

The Tottenham Hotspur (English football team) forum is also called Spurstalk. San Antonio have the domain name though. Being English, and not a follower of the NBA at all, my first thought also turned to wondering why the moon hoac was a hot topic with the fans at White Hart Lane.

:D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on July 11, 2012, 09:41:23 AM
I wonder why it is such a long running topic for San Antonio Spurs fans.  Now if it were on the Houston Rockets forum, I'd understand.  ;)  OTOH, the Rockets moderators might take denigrating the space program and the people who made it happen more personally.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on July 11, 2012, 08:34:05 PM
And lest we forget, our old fiend Hagbard::

Quote
Why would it be so hard to fly a spacecraft to the moon? The pro-hoax films talk about the radiation riak, but the radiation wasn't as bad as all that, according to Clavius. The rockets were desinged over a period of years by some of the greatest engineers they could find. Why couldn't they do it?


This is going to be difficult to explain. The world is not what we think it is and the conspiracy works on many levels. What if I were to tell you that there is a secret global government and that all national governments are simply public-relation departments of that secret global government? Sounds crazy? Well, bear with me. The Cold War, like nearly all wars, was a manipulated fraud. Of course we on the ground, as well as people far higher up in “power” didn’t know this. As far as we were concerned there were two sides: the West and the Communist block, but at a higher level the two sides were run by the same people; and that situation is the same today. During the Cold War it became necessary as part of the Space Race to make it look like man had gone to the moon for the first time. But the charade had to be credible to the public, which meant that the people had to be seen to go there using the technology of the time. There’s another historical analogy: when Columbus “discovered” America. The truth is, the Elite Secret Society Mystery Schools knew very well that the New World existed, they had for thousands of years. The ruling Royal lines of the Vikings, Egyptians, Romans, Phoenicians, Welsh and Irish had already sent secret expeditions over the Atlantic and travel between the two continents was a regular thing. But it became necessary for political and social reasons for the common people to be “briefed in”. So they sent Columbus, an Elite Mystery School member, over the Atlantic to pretend to accidentally trip over America! So it is with the moon. In the 60’s it became necessary in the “Great Work” for the common people to see astronauts going to the moon. In fact people were going to the moon long before that! And they still do, traveling in far more sophisticated craft than the primitive chemical rockets we see rising up over Cape Canaveral.

You see this is why the Russians never blew the whistle. The Space Race was a feint, unreal, epiphenomenal. It was an illusion engineered by government psychologists and political strategists. There’s a lower level reason too which was probably the one given the junior officials and spies: For the Space Race to be credible in the public eye it had to be close. This is the case in all races. If you’re watching a horse race and the two front runners are neck-and-neck approaching the line isn’t it exciting!? Especially if you’ve put a bet on one of them! A race where the front runner is ten lengths ahead is far less so. In the analogy of the story of the Tortoise and the Hare a race that is too one-sided causes the viewers and participants to lose interest. Up until the moon landings the Russians were winning hands down; achieving nearly all the designated firsts of space travel. If that situation had continued the public in both the West and the Soviet Union would have lost interest, maybe beginning to ask if the huge cost of the space programmes were worth it. The moon landing project allowed the Americans to catch up, giving them back their national pride and reigniting interest in the Space Race in all humanity, ultimately benefiting both countries.

Hmmm... yep, I think he covered all the issues.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on July 11, 2012, 09:17:11 PM
How do people like this survive in the world?

I've read that delusions and psychoses aren't limited to schizophrenics. There's a milder disorder called "Delusional Disorder" in which the person is "high functioning"; he can actually function pretty well as long as it doesn't have to do with their delusion.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Peter B on July 12, 2012, 02:51:03 AM
And lest we forget, our old fiend Hagbard::

Quote
Why would it be so hard to fly a spacecraft to the moon? The pro-hoax films talk about the radiation riak, but the radiation wasn't as bad as all that, according to Clavius. The rockets were desinged over a period of years by some of the greatest engineers they could find. Why couldn't they do it?


...The Cold War, like nearly all wars, was a manipulated fraud. Of course we on the ground, as well as people far higher up in “power” didn’t know this. As far as we were concerned there were two sides: the West and the Communist block, but at a higher level the two sides were run by the same people; and that situation is the same today. During the Cold War it became necessary as part of the Space Race to make it look like man had gone to the moon for the first time. But the charade had to be credible to the public, which meant that the people had to be seen to go there using the technology of the time...
And as the 'X Files' explained, that was why the Buffalo Bills lost four Superbowls in a row...  ::)

(Little do they realise it was so I could twit a friend at work who was a Bills supporter, while I'm a Patriots supporter.)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on July 12, 2012, 01:36:50 PM
I think hagbard actually summed up the fatal attraction of conspiracy theories for many people:

Quote
The world is not what we think it is....

It's so much more exciting that way!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on July 12, 2012, 02:26:55 PM
Especially when you're "conspiratorially aware".

I think that expression should live on.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on July 12, 2012, 04:04:59 PM
To me, the concept that the Cold War (and all wars back from that, until whenever the conspiracy espoused began) were fakes to keep the peons under control is the dividing line between CTs who are sane, if misguided, and those who are desperately delusional.

It's one thing to suspect that the moon landings might be hoaxed, particularly if you've only read one side of the story. To firmly believe all reality is a hoax is a different mentality entirely.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on July 14, 2012, 09:18:49 PM
Well, strictly speaking you can't logically disprove solipsism.

I just decided long ago that it's not very useful.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Halcyon Dayz, FCD on July 14, 2012, 10:57:37 PM
Well, strictly speaking you can't logically disprove solipsism.

I just decided long ago that it's not very useful.
If I bump my toe the hurt feels real enough.

So I go through live at least acting as if my toes and the things they could bump into are for real.

 :D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Not Myself on July 15, 2012, 09:47:44 AM
Well, strictly speaking you can't logically disprove solipsism.

I just decided long ago that it's not very useful.
If I bump my toe the hurt feels real enough.

So I go through live at least acting as if my toes and the things they could bump into are for real.

 :D

This thread is in danger of wandering into "What should we do if there is no free will?" territory :)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on July 15, 2012, 09:53:52 AM
Well, at least no-one has mentioned their favorite programming language...  :D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Chew on July 15, 2012, 11:53:42 AM
Well, strictly speaking you can't logically disprove solipsism.

I just decided long ago that it's not very useful.


The best way to handle a solipsist:

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on July 15, 2012, 02:36:51 PM
I've read that delusions and psychoses aren't limited to schizophrenics. There's a milder disorder called "Delusional Disorder" in which the person is "high functioning"; he can actually function pretty well as long as it doesn't have to do with their delusion.

Pretty much, yes.  One of the reasons I am hesitant to diagnose schizophrenia online, come to that.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DataCable on July 15, 2012, 02:54:09 PM
The best way to handle a solipsist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmC2lz3FPY4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmC2lz3FPY4)
Exactly the first thing that popped into my head when the 's' word was mentioned.  The synchronicity of that response looks so well-choreographed, but I saw that show live as it aired, it was purely spontaneous.  Matt & Jeff: Great minds, indeed.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on July 15, 2012, 08:49:28 PM
I prefer this approach, but that's me:

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on July 15, 2012, 10:14:48 PM
Subtle, but to the point.  I like it. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on July 17, 2012, 12:42:28 PM
Deedle deedle dee, deedle dee.......

Gee, I've gotten so bored with the lack of HBs to have fun with (and being tired of Hunchy's nonsensical videos) I've lately taken to amusing myself by baiting the remaining 9/11 Truthers over on YT.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Trebor on July 17, 2012, 06:49:19 PM
Deedle deedle dee, deedle dee.......

Gee, I've gotten so bored with the lack of HBs to have fun with (and being tired of Hunchy's nonsensical videos) I've lately taken to amusing myself by baiting the remaining 9/11 Truthers over on YT.

You could always try visiting Youtube, there is no shortage of stupid there.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on July 17, 2012, 09:01:03 PM
You could always try visiting Youtube, there is no shortage of stupid there.
But that's where Hunchbacked is. He's actually one of the more agreeable hoaxers in that he rarely censors his critics, nor does he get downright abusive as so many others do. Oh, he constantly accuses me of never listening, of only parroting what my NASA masters pay me to say, blah, blah. He's utterly incapable of even conceiving that he could ever be wrong, so he simply can't accept that I actually do listen to what he says and then conclude that he's wrong.

But he actually seems genuine even if he is totally misguided, and he doesn't seem to have that meanspirited streak that's so common among many other hoaxers.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on July 18, 2012, 04:50:50 PM
Hunchy still claims to be (among other things) an aerospace engineer, and he seems to be so absolutely confident in his supposed knowledge that it's a real puzzle. I'm still convinced that he has some kind of physical or mental condition - he evidently can look right at an image or video and knot know what he is seeing; even after it's explained to him, he insists that his interpretation is correct, usually based on the "if I ran the zoo" basis.

Oh, and he recently flatly stated that "No real aerospace engineer disagrees with me." You have to wonder about the ones who worked on the Apollo project...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on July 18, 2012, 05:29:46 PM
Oh, and he recently flatly stated that "No real aerospace engineer disagrees with me." You have to wonder about the ones who worked on the Apollo project...

I'm real, and I strongly disagree with him.  Not only with him, but with the claim that he's an aerospace engineer.  Or an engineer of any kind.

But I suspect this is the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.  As soon as someone disagrees with him, he'll say that disqualifies him as a "real" engineer.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on July 18, 2012, 09:34:32 PM
Oh, and he recently flatly stated that "No real aerospace engineer disagrees with me." You have to wonder about the ones who worked on the Apollo project...
He actually has an answer for that. He claims that the engineers who worked on Apollo were competent and aware that Apollo was a hoax. They resented being 'forced' (by the CIA, natch) to design systems that would never be used, so they deliberately made the designs unworkable and planted hundreds of 'clues' to this effect that he is the first to discover.

And yes, his definition of a real engineer excludes anyone who disagrees with him. Especially me. He waves his French aerospace diploma to claim credibility, but ignores others' credentials in fields closer to whatever he's finding "incoherences" in today.

Jay, what do you know about Institut Supérieur de l'Aéronautique et de l'Espace? He claims to have a diploma from there but I know nothing about French universities, nor much about aerospace schools in general. (I'm an EE so I mostly know American electrical engineering and computer science schools plus some physics departments). I know from my own experience in industrial engineering recruiting that brilliant engineers can come from schools you never heard of, and even idiots can sometimes slip through the cracks and get diplomas from well known schools, with very few exceptions; I don't think I've ever seen a bad candidate from MIT. I could probably say the same about Caltech but I haven't interviewed nearly as many from there as from MIT so I don't have enough of a sample set.

I know some object to amateur armchair psychoanalysis over the net, and that's all this is, but I agree with you that he must have some sort of condition. It all looks too much like "A Beautiful Mind" without the pre-illness brilliance.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on July 19, 2012, 01:30:01 AM
Quote
I know some object to amateur armchair psychoanalysis over the net, and that's all this is, but I agree with you that he must have some sort of condition.
Yeah, a person's on very shaky ground trying to assess someone's mental state from their internet postings, but it's just hard for me to fathom the reasoning behind the things he says. I frequently wonder if he isn't just playing a running joke, seeing what outrageous thing he can come up with next.

One thing in particular always strikes me as odd about his notions - he always presents his reasons as "absolute proof" or the equivalent. Folks I have known who have a scientific background, when reasoning something out from evidence, almost always use terms like "seems to indicate" or "supports the conclusion that...". His absolute certainty in his conclusions just seems unusual. Of course, it could just be his usage of English - heaven knows he uses some strange phrasing.

But who knows, maybe he does have an engineering degree. There are nuts in any field - Architects & Engineers for 911 TruthTM does have 1700 members, after all.

Anyway, I really don't find debating Hunchy to be much fun - he's just so sincere in his beliefs. The 9/11 Truthers are much more entertaining - they get so piiisssssed, especially when you call them sheep for following along with the Truther crowd ::)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on July 19, 2012, 01:35:05 PM
But do the "truthers" actually confirm anyone's credentials?  Just because they're in the group doesn't mean I believe they're actually architects and engineers.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Chew on July 19, 2012, 02:54:19 PM
But do the "truthers" actually confirm anyone's credentials?  Just because they're in the group doesn't mean I believe they're actually architects and engineers.

IIRC, someone at the JREF did a spot check on a few score of the names. About half were actual architects or engineers and about half of those worked in their field.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on July 19, 2012, 03:02:54 PM
Remember, a good education does not guarantee someone will not go off the rails. It just gives them a greater source of things to become a crank about.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on July 19, 2012, 03:56:31 PM
I honestly think Hunchy has gone around the bend. I just saw his YT vid from May in which he puts forth the theory that (a) the photos and videos/films from Apollo were all done by actors hired by the CIA on a fake moon set, and (b) the real astronauts were drugged and somehow "brainwashed" to believe that they had made the trip.

That's just... well, what can you say?  If he really believes this, his somewhat-skewed reality has devolved into outright delusion.

Is that what they mean by French-fried? :o
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on July 19, 2012, 04:57:54 PM
...so they deliberately made the designs unworkable and planted hundreds of 'clues' to this effect that he is the first to discover.

That's a pretty perfect delusion.  The original engineers -- known giants of their field -- left clues that have gone unnoticed by generations of professional engineers, in designs that have been reused and duplicated for decades after.  And the only person in the world who notices them is a guy claiming a three-year degree.  And what does he do?  Makes anonymous YouTube videos.  Yeah, that has "delusion of grandeur" written all over it.

Quote
Jay, what do you know about Institut Supérieur de l'Aéronautique et de l'Espace?

It exists.  It's an accredited three-year program, but you can study practically any science topic there, to any depth.  You could apparently major in radar knobs, for all the world knows.  It's suspicious that in his video he says one is awarded a degree just for being accepted there; no exams required.  I wonder what he means by that.

The Institut is a new thing; he claims a diploma from the earlier Ecole, which as of 2007 is now part of this larger institute at Toulouse.  This makes it hard to assess the strength of the program based on comparative rankings.  But according to the 2012 international rankings, the Institut ranks in the low 4,000s.  By comparison Carnegie-Mellon is ranked #22, Purdue is #20.  One of my alma maters U. of Michigan is ranked #8 (Go Blue!), and the university I taught at is ranked #79.  Yes, I'm sure you can get a job at Dassault with one of their degrees, but you might be installing radar knobs.  His was a three-year program.  I went to school for more than a decade.  Do the math.

Quote
I don't think I've ever seen a bad candidate from MIT.

Nope.  I sent my brightest student there, where he promptly earned a PhD and is now a research fellow at Google.  He can't ski worth a darn, but that's not part of the curriculum in Cambridge.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on July 19, 2012, 08:11:03 PM
That's a pretty perfect delusion.  The original engineers -- known giants of their field -- left clues that have gone unnoticed by generations of professional engineers, in designs that have been reused and duplicated for decades after.
It sure is. And his delusion is unpenetrated by specific examples of those designs being used in systems that have nothing to do with NASA or space exploration, like FM broadcast transmitters.

Quote
You could apparently major in radar knobs, for all the world knows.  It's suspicious that in his video he says one is awarded a degree just for being accepted there; no exams required.  I wonder what he means by that.
I noticed that too. I don't know of any credible university that doesn't have exams. Hard exams.

Quote
By comparison Carnegie-Mellon is ranked #22, Purdue is #20.  One of my alma maters U. of Michigan is ranked #8 (Go Blue!), and the university I taught at is ranked #79.
One of my standard speeches to high school students who want to become engineers is to not sweat the college selection process too much. Or let your parents sweat it too much. Your life won't end before it starts if you don't get accepted at MIT or Caltech. I didn't. There are literally dozens of excellent EE schools in the US, any one of which can give you a perfectly good education and your professional start. Because that's all it is, a start; the longer you're in industry, the less it matters where you went to school. What matters more is that you continue to learn.

I also say that grades and transcripts and school names were never that important to me as an interviewer. You do need to pass and get a degree, yes, but beyond that I look more at other things: work-study experience, side projects, contributions to open-source software, technically related hobbies, small businesses, science fair projects, stuff like that. The common theme is individual drive and initiative.


Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on July 19, 2012, 08:37:46 PM
Now, I did inform a friend that he'd be crazy to go to my alma mater if he had any interest in being an engineer, simply because (to my knowledge) there's only one professor there capable of teaching higher mathematics and physics.  And I had him for history and literature!  However, in off times, he discussed his time at Bell Labs long ago.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on July 20, 2012, 01:31:30 PM
I noticed that too. I don't know of any credible university that doesn't have exams. Hard exams.
Especially in an engineering curriculum.  Two-hour exams in each subject where it's just your brain pitted against thick piles of arcane knowledge about the physical world.  I would have to check, but I don't think a three-year program would qualify you to sit for the PE exams in any of the United Sates.  "Diploma upon entry" screams diploma-mill, and this jives with their absurdly low international ranking.  But I don't see anything in their literature that confirms this is what they do.  And in all other respects they seem legitimate.  I'm guessing Hunchback misspoke.

Quote
One of my standard speeches to high school students who want to become engineers is to not sweat the college selection process too much. Or let your parents sweat it too much.
Indeed.  The ranking I posted is simply the only measurement I could find of the school's competency, absent any meaningful review.

More toward your point, I tell kids to get their generals done at whatever accredited school is cheapest for them to attend.  Everyone getting a 4-year baccalaureate has to take so many of the same classes regardless of eventual major, and they're largely the same no matter where you go, and largely as disinteresting to students.  Hence if you're going to be a mechanical engineer, get "Western Civilization" and "Nutritional Life Skills" out of the way at Groener State Teacher's College, because you won't enjoy them any more at $4,000 per credit hour at your Ivy League dream school.

Quote
Because that's all it is, a start; the longer you're in industry, the less it matters where you went to school. What matters more is that you continue to learn.

I also say that grades and transcripts and school names were never that important to me as an interviewer.
Indeed, when evaluating a résumé I verify that the candidate has a suitable degree from a school that's not obviously bogus, and then I skip right to the most recent job experience.  If a candidate presents a transcript I look at it, but I don't care about grades or GPA so much.  What I look at depends largely on what I'm hiring for.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on July 20, 2012, 02:44:43 PM
All of which is the problem with my alma mater.  No requirements and no grades.  You have to do a lot of in-depth study in the person's transcript to know what you're getting.  That being said, I've heard there's a professor in the computer sciences at MIT who prefers getting our graduates, because the one thing you can be reasonably sure of is that we've learned how to think.  Not just follow orders.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on July 20, 2012, 05:30:25 PM
That reminds me, Gillian; I miss your avater from the old board (and thanks for explaining the gag).

P.S.  I really would like to know if the above was the proper use of a semicolon.  Thanks.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on July 20, 2012, 11:59:26 PM
Yes, but you spelled "avatar" wrong.  And if someone can help me set it up here, I'll transfer it over.  As I think I've said before, I really don't know a lot about computers.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on July 21, 2012, 02:07:28 AM
Avater (n.) A person or thing which avets.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: RedneckR0nin on July 21, 2012, 09:52:27 AM
And lest we forget, our old fiend Hagbard::

Quote
Why would it be so hard to fly a spacecraft to the moon? The pro-hoax films talk about the radiation riak, but the radiation wasn't as bad as all that, according to Clavius. The rockets were desinged over a period of years by some of the greatest engineers they could find. Why couldn't they do it?


This is going to be difficult to explain. The world is not what we think it is and the conspiracy works on many levels. What if I were to tell you that there is a secret global government and that all national governments are simply public-relation departments of that secret global government? Sounds crazy? Well, bear with me. The Cold War, like nearly all wars, was a manipulated fraud. Of course we on the ground, as well as people far higher up in “power” didn’t know this. As far as we were concerned there were two sides: the West and the Communist block, but at a higher level the two sides were run by the same people; and that situation is the same today. During the Cold War it became necessary as part of the Space Race to make it look like man had gone to the moon for the first time. But the charade had to be credible to the public, which meant that the people had to be seen to go there using the technology of the time. There’s another historical analogy: when Columbus “discovered” America. The truth is, the Elite Secret Society Mystery Schools knew very well that the New World existed, they had for thousands of years. The ruling Royal lines of the Vikings, Egyptians, Romans, Phoenicians, Welsh and Irish had already sent secret expeditions over the Atlantic and travel between the two continents was a regular thing. But it became necessary for political and social reasons for the common people to be “briefed in”. So they sent Columbus, an Elite Mystery School member, over the Atlantic to pretend to accidentally trip over America! So it is with the moon. In the 60’s it became necessary in the “Great Work” for the common people to see astronauts going to the moon. In fact people were going to the moon long before that! And they still do, traveling in far more sophisticated craft than the primitive chemical rockets we see rising up over Cape Canaveral.

You see this is why the Russians never blew the whistle. The Space Race was a feint, unreal, epiphenomenal. It was an illusion engineered by government psychologists and political strategists. There’s a lower level reason too which was probably the one given the junior officials and spies: For the Space Race to be credible in the public eye it had to be close. This is the case in all races. If you’re watching a horse race and the two front runners are neck-and-neck approaching the line isn’t it exciting!? Especially if you’ve put a bet on one of them! A race where the front runner is ten lengths ahead is far less so. In the analogy of the story of the Tortoise and the Hare a race that is too one-sided causes the viewers and participants to lose interest. Up until the moon landings the Russians were winning hands down; achieving nearly all the designated firsts of space travel. If that situation had continued the public in both the West and the Soviet Union would have lost interest, maybe beginning to ask if the huge cost of the space programmes were worth it. The moon landing project allowed the Americans to catch up, giving them back their national pride and reigniting interest in the Space Race in all humanity, ultimately benefiting both countries.

Hmmm... yep, I think he covered all the issues.
Ohhh Jesus have mercy!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on July 21, 2012, 11:47:14 AM
An HB on another board (CNN) asked why so many 'Apollo Believers' come out of the woodwork when someone posts a comment doubting the moon landings.

He was told:
"Well, when there's a naked man standing in the middle of the highway shaking his penis at passing traffic, it's only natural for people to stop to point and laugh."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on July 21, 2012, 01:44:05 PM
When someone posts "look at me! I'm a dumbass!" on a message board, they shouldn't be surprised when people reply,  "Yeah, you are a dumbass, aren't you?"
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on July 21, 2012, 02:04:12 PM
Well, and there are just so many people who aren't stupid enough to be hoax believers.  You wouldn't know an Apollo buff from just another poster until you mention Apollo most of the time.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Not Myself on July 21, 2012, 05:14:46 PM
And lest we forget, our old fiend Hagbard::

Quote
Why would it be so hard to fly a spacecraft to the moon? The pro-hoax films talk about the radiation riak, but the radiation wasn't as bad as all that, according to Clavius. The rockets were desinged over a period of years by some of the greatest engineers they could find. Why couldn't they do it?


This is going to be difficult to explain. The world is not what we think it is and the conspiracy works on many levels. What if I were to tell you that there is a secret global government and that all national governments are simply public-relation departments of that secret global government? Sounds crazy? Well, bear with me. The Cold War, like nearly all wars, was a manipulated fraud. Of course we on the ground, as well as people far higher up in “power” didn’t know this. As far as we were concerned there were two sides: the West and the Communist block, but at a higher level the two sides were run by the same people; and that situation is the same today. During the Cold War it became necessary as part of the Space Race to make it look like man had gone to the moon for the first time. But the charade had to be credible to the public, which meant that the people had to be seen to go there using the technology of the time. There’s another historical analogy: when Columbus “discovered” America. The truth is, the Elite Secret Society Mystery Schools knew very well that the New World existed, they had for thousands of years. The ruling Royal lines of the Vikings, Egyptians, Romans, Phoenicians, Welsh and Irish had already sent secret expeditions over the Atlantic and travel between the two continents was a regular thing. But it became necessary for political and social reasons for the common people to be “briefed in”. So they sent Columbus, an Elite Mystery School member, over the Atlantic to pretend to accidentally trip over America! So it is with the moon. In the 60’s it became necessary in the “Great Work” for the common people to see astronauts going to the moon. In fact people were going to the moon long before that! And they still do, traveling in far more sophisticated craft than the primitive chemical rockets we see rising up over Cape Canaveral.

You see this is why the Russians never blew the whistle. The Space Race was a feint, unreal, epiphenomenal. It was an illusion engineered by government psychologists and political strategists. There’s a lower level reason too which was probably the one given the junior officials and spies: For the Space Race to be credible in the public eye it had to be close. This is the case in all races. If you’re watching a horse race and the two front runners are neck-and-neck approaching the line isn’t it exciting!? Especially if you’ve put a bet on one of them! A race where the front runner is ten lengths ahead is far less so. In the analogy of the story of the Tortoise and the Hare a race that is too one-sided causes the viewers and participants to lose interest. Up until the moon landings the Russians were winning hands down; achieving nearly all the designated firsts of space travel. If that situation had continued the public in both the West and the Soviet Union would have lost interest, maybe beginning to ask if the huge cost of the space programmes were worth it. The moon landing project allowed the Americans to catch up, giving them back their national pride and reigniting interest in the Space Race in all humanity, ultimately benefiting both countries.

Hmmm... yep, I think he covered all the issues.

Here's an account from someone who is clearly in the know, as the account includes all kinds of specific details.  Unlike the vague account above.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/fire1.htm
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on July 22, 2012, 12:14:50 AM
Well, how can you dispute 'One Who Knows'? If he knows, he knows, right? Actually, the guy should have fleshed it out a bit and put it out as science fiction - it's not a bad yarn, in spots. (I read the first two pages hen skimmed some of the rest.)

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Not Myself on July 22, 2012, 12:48:33 AM
Well, how can you dispute 'One Who Knows'? If he knows, he knows, right? Actually, the guy should have fleshed it out a bit and put it out as science fiction - it's not a bad yarn, in spots. (I read the first two pages hen skimmed some of the rest.)

He's obviously in the know.  Some of these conspiracy folks just have a vague idea that something doesn't smell right to them.  This guy has the story spelled out in incredible detail, dates, names, types of weapons, etc.  Must be an insider.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on July 22, 2012, 02:10:55 AM
More toward your point, I tell kids to get their generals done at whatever accredited school is cheapest for them to attend.  Everyone getting a 4-year baccalaureate has to take so many of the same classes regardless of eventual major, and they're largely the same no matter where you go, and largely as disinteresting to students.  Hence if you're going to be a mechanical engineer, get "Western Civilization" and "Nutritional Life Skills" out of the way at Groener State Teacher's College, because you won't enjoy them any more at $4,000 per credit hour at your Ivy League dream school.
That's not always possible. Credits are not always readily portable, even within the same university. Cornell, my undergraduate school, is an unusual mix of endowed and state colleges on the same campus. This is important because for New York residents (28% of the student population) tuition is substantially lower for state than endowed schools yet for the first two years everyone sits in exactly the same classes. So it was once common for prospective engineers from New York State to enroll in Agricultural Engineering and then switch to the College of Engineering after their sophomore year, saving substantially on tuition for two years. The University put a stop to that by requiring transfers to pay the difference when transferring credits from a state to an endowed college.

I suppose it's still viable if you think you won't make it all the way. At least you won't have spent as much when you drop out. Then again, few students enter college expecting to flunk out, nor would I recommend a self fulfilling prophecy. It happened often enough unintentionally.

There's also the adjustment factor; while a lot of students do transfer between universities, it's a major disruption at a life stage when you really don't need it. Every university has its own unique culture, and you spend much of your first two years getting to know the campus, its students and faculty and making friends. I found it hard enough to transition from Cornell to CMU for my masters degree, but Bell Labs discouraged their One Year On Campus students from returning to their undergraduate schools. (In those days they hired many engineers like me with BS degrees and paid us a salary and tuition to get a one-year MS. When I got that offer I didn't even seriously consider any others.)

For most students, freshman year is the first time they've ever lived on their own. Cheap communications may have changed this, but when I went to school my parents no longer told me when to study, when to go to bed and when to get up. No one noticed if I skipped a class. Although there was some drug and alcohol use in my high school, it just didn't happen in my social circle. That changed in college (the drinking age was then 18) creating another potential pitfall. All this is much for some students to handle.

I entered Cornell knowing that I wanted to become an electrical engineer, and even though I had to take many general courses in those first two years I joined a fraternity and got to know the EE school so by my junior year I knew which professors and courses I really wanted.

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on July 22, 2012, 02:51:53 AM
Here's an account from someone who is clearly in the know, as the account includes all kinds of specific details.  Unlike the vague account above.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/fire1.htm
That's a pretty wild one. Quoting:
Quote
Friends, it's time you learned the real story. In October, 1977, a newly operational Russian Cosmos Interceptor shot down *Skylab. Skylab,* along with its crew of five American astronauts secretly aboard, died in a giant fireball over the United States. NASA immediately initiated a prolonged cover-up of what had happened. How do I know? Suffice it to say, I have a very high-up source of information.
So Skylab was shot down in October 1977, huh? Then I wonder: what was that large and bright object in low earth orbit that was regularly seen until July 11, 1979? It looked just like the Skylab launched in 1973. It even shared its orbit. I wrote a program to track Skylab in high school, and it was always right where it was supposed to be. Isn't that strange?
Quote
The Cold War, like nearly all wars, was a manipulated fraud.
Gosh, if only that were true. I sure wish he'd told us earlier; like many young kids (and adults!) when I learned about nuclear weapons I sometimes lay awake in bed at night wondering if the world would still be there in the morning. Through my early teens I assumed that when I reached 18 I'd be drafted, sent to Vietnam and almost certainly killed or maimed. At times I wondered what point there was in going to school and planning for a future that probably wouldn't happen.

Knowing that the Cold War was phony sure would have calmed a lot of jittery nerves in October 1962. I don't think we even had a TV set yet, and I probably would have been too young to really understand what it meant.

I think conspiracy theories serve much the same purpose as mythology.  For many people the world is filled with inexplicable things and events, most of them bad, that they're powerless to control. Myths fill this gap. Even though they still can't control what's happening, at least they can focus their anxieties. They can know who's responsible and why, even if most people don't. As someone here recently said, a conspiracy theory lets people feel better about themselves by creating a small, powerful and evil group to blame for all the bad things that happen to them. They can feel relieved that they themselves are blameless, innocent victims.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Not Myself on July 22, 2012, 03:37:55 AM
So Skylab was shot down in October 1977, huh? Then I wonder: what was that large and bright object in low earth orbit that was regularly seen until July 11, 1979? It looked just like the Skylab launched in 1973. It even shared its orbit. I wrote a program to track Skylab in high school, and it was always right where it was supposed to be. Isn't that strange?

The conspirators were an extremely cunning lot.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on July 22, 2012, 07:44:50 AM
A small update to the fattydash/Patrick1000/dastardly/decisively story..

As I reported earlier, he had a brief (but high output) fling at the AboveTopSecret forum.  He initially used just one identity (decisively), but started multiple threads denying Apollo - first posting in the dastardly persona as the sextant-prize-winning idiot-savant and then slowly morphing into the highly experienced chess playing doctor..  During his stay there he converted no-one, and really only managed to attract a couple of known tinfoilhatters (SayonaraJupiter and Bokonon) to offer a few supporting posts.  The rest of the ATS audience despite their usual encouragement of conspiracies were rather harsh on decisively, and he was eventually banned - presumably for continuous insults and avoiding questions.

That was it, I thought..  but all of a sudden, after a couple of weeks silence, decisively returned with a single sockpuppet..  And once that was recognised and banned, he has now tried several more in very rapid succession (for some reason, explosive diarrhea comes to mind..) but each time he is getting more quickly recognised and banned for his trouble.  ATS appear to have had enough of him as well..

So he is a one trick pony, it appears...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on July 22, 2012, 11:36:54 AM
Quote
Gosh, if only that were true. I sure wish he'd told us earlier; like many young kids (and adults!) when I learned about nuclear weapons I sometimes lay awake in bed at night wondering if the world would still be there in the morning. Through my early teens I assumed that when I reached 18 I'd be drafted, sent to Vietnam and almost certainly killed or maimed. At times I wondered what point there was in going to school and planning for a future that probably wouldn't happen.
I'm not sure the "Truth" was more assuring.

According to "Knows", the reason it was a fraud is that the Soviets had multiple orbiting "Cosmodromes", each bigger that a pre-WW2 dirigible and armed with particle beam weapons that could destroy targets in the US at any time. The Cold War never happened because we were totally at their mercy. It was undoubtedly one of those you saw in Skylab's orbit.

Give it a read. I thought it wasn't a bad alternate reality yarn, as these things go.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Halcyon Dayz, FCD on July 22, 2012, 01:21:42 PM
The rest of the ATS audience despite their usual encouragement of conspiracies were rather harsh on decisively, and he was eventually banned - presumably for continuous insults and avoiding questions.
There hasn't been a decent Apollo Hoax thread on GLP for months, only the occasional trollish "only an idiot would believe it".
As if that's even an argument.
It seems that there are very few true believers left..
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on July 22, 2012, 03:44:05 PM
New stuff has actually just about died out on YouTube, too. Well, except for Hunchy's delirium dreams. Even the nameless one hasn't posted anything new about the Hoax in six months or so.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: dwight on July 22, 2012, 08:03:39 PM
Oh if you want delusional,
?v=PtdcdxvNI1o is about as nutbar as it gets. Forgive my language there, it just sometimes boggles my mind how wilfully stupid some people want to be.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on July 22, 2012, 09:03:43 PM
Wow. I couldn't read that all at once. Most of those jarheads are just yapping to hear themselves yap. They don't care about what's true, they're just jumping on the bandwagon and parroting what they've heard.

Take a look at Hunchedback's YT video back in May. Now he thinks the astronauts were drugged and brainwashed to make them think they had been to the moon while actors shot the pictures on a set.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on July 23, 2012, 02:40:58 AM
Doctor Socks is continuing his assault on ATS - spamming threads with weird videos, etc.  The Mods are fighting the good fight, and have caught & banned him twice tonight.  Sock-puppets have included ScottieD, FelixDoodleBrook and RhesusFilbert.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on July 23, 2012, 10:00:46 AM
I know many people at first thought that Patrick was just trolling, in the original definition - throwing out a ridiculous opener just to laugh at people who took him seriously. But it appears Patrick is extremely devoted to his theory. There's something bizarre in his constant use of socks to bolster his arguments, each with their own little dramatic story of how they're the best in whatever is their chosen field, resulting in a ban and a run to the next forum where he can do the same thing all over again. It's like he literally cannot stop talking about it. I'm not sure what will happen to him if he eventually runs out of forums where he's not been banned.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ineluki on July 23, 2012, 10:28:21 AM
I'm not sure what will happen to him if he eventually runs out of forums where he's not been banned.

Let's just hope he outgrows his obsession before that happens, and he takes his frustration to the real world.



Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on July 23, 2012, 11:27:18 AM
I'm not sure what will happen to him if he eventually runs out of forums where he's not been banned.

There's always spurstalk.  They seem to have a fondness for trolls, whom they capture and keep around for their amusement.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on July 23, 2012, 04:11:23 PM
Doctor Socks is continuing his assault on ATS - spamming threads with weird videos, etc.  The Mods are fighting the good fight, and have caught & banned him twice tonight.  Sock-puppets have included ScottieD, FelixDoodleBrook and RhesusFilbert.

"How do you kill that which has no life?"
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Donnie B. on July 23, 2012, 04:35:12 PM
"How do you kill that which has no life?"

Nuke it from orbit.   It's the only way to be sure.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on July 23, 2012, 07:01:52 PM
"How do you kill that which has no life?"

Nuke it from orbit.   It's the only way to be sure.

This is winning fu.  That is all.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Chew on July 23, 2012, 09:10:11 PM
"How do you kill that which has no life?"

"Who foretold this prophecy?"
"Schwarzman. He's in accounting."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Drewid on August 06, 2012, 05:16:58 AM
Our favourite bicycle riding medic is trying again over at Cosmoquest nee BAUT. This time he's a lesbian microbiologist.

He's so wacky. ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on August 06, 2012, 08:31:18 AM
Our favourite bicycle riding medic is trying again over at Cosmoquest nee BAUT. This time he's a lesbian microbiologist.

He's so wacky. ;D
Yup, as ClaudiaT, for the record (I'll compile a full list later, when I am bored..).  But poor Claudia is now (already) banned, which happened as I watched - just after I put my report in to the mod's, including a bit of the evidence I have collected to ensure 'recognition'.  I won't immodestly say that I caused it (I'm sure there were lots of other reports), but hopefully I was one of the straws. :D

So, a quick hi to ClaudiaT/fattydash/dastardly/Patrick1000/TotallyStokedDude etc..  Oh and 'her' new Youtube identity 'Kirsten Young'.  If you are reading this, may I say how much I enjoy seeing you off forums as quickly as possible, so that you have to put more wasted effort into new sockpuppets, new IP's, coming up with new stories and imaginary friends... all for pretty much no result whatsoever.  And each time the ways to prove who you are, become easier to compile and forward onto the moderators - you are now so obvious .. well, it is all rather sad..

I hope you're not getting angry, fatty?   As a token of my respect, may i suggest a forum like GLP might be best?  Places in the gutter of the Interweb should have no problem with most of your antics, and you'll be among like-minded trolls.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on August 06, 2012, 10:55:04 AM
Well, obviously, the answer to my question about what will happen when Patrick runs out of fora is that he'll start up new socks.

I don't know, maybe Patrick should give up Apollo and start writing fiction (or at least taking up role-playing). He seems to enjoy creating characters with their own histories. I know many HBs have socks, but Patrick goes above and beyond the ordinary by creating different writing styles for each one. However, I suspect that if he did take up a purely creative pursuit, all of his stories would revolve around how "I am the smartest, bestest person in the world, beating the experts with my intelligence and mad research skillz".
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Drewid on August 06, 2012, 04:12:42 PM
But the writing styles really aren't that different.  There's something about the bounce and heft of his sentences that come through pretty much every time.

It's like someone's drunk uncle doing really bad impressions that all end up sounding like Sean Connery.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on August 07, 2012, 10:29:31 AM
Patrick created one sock on BAUT that wrote in a supposedly uneducated manner. However, the claim that he was the "best sextant user ever!" sort of gave it away. He's also had BAUT personas who were more aggressive, less aggressive, or who were "just asking questions".

But you're right, whatever he tries, his own bombastic, verbose character shines through, sort of like an actor who may try character roles, but they all end up just being "Patrick as working stiff", "Patrick as genteel lady," "Patrick as person who has no knowledge of Appollo," etc.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: slang on August 07, 2012, 10:53:11 AM
"Patrick as person who has no knowledge of Appollo,"

Nah, that's the real one. ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: darren r on August 07, 2012, 02:20:14 PM
I noticed that he also specialises in having a tertiary persona popping up to support his secondary one and referring to them in a chummy way ie 'Chris', 'the Doc'.

BTW, where did ClaudiaT get that 'Apollo was just a cover for making star maps for ICBM's' nonsense from? Did he/she make that up themselves or is that another piece of lunacy doing the rounds among HB's?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on August 07, 2012, 03:31:59 PM
I noticed that he also specialises in having a tertiary persona popping up to support his secondary one and referring to them in a chummy way ie 'Chris', 'the Doc'.

BTW, where did ClaudiaT get that 'Apollo was just a cover for making star maps for ICBM's' nonsense from? Did he/she make that up themselves or is that another piece of lunacy doing the rounds among HB's?
That's just Dr. Socks recycling his threadbare arguments.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on August 07, 2012, 04:29:10 PM
BTW, where did ClaudiaT get that 'Apollo was just a cover for making star maps for ICBM's' nonsense from? Did he/she make that up themselves or is that another piece of lunacy doing the rounds among HB's?

Many hoax authors hypothesize that Apollo had secret military objectives.  Patrick has claimed that Apollo was a cover for deploying nuclear weapons technology to the Moon, and for testing nuclear weapons and delivery systems.  Most of his sock puppets have liberal politics and pacifist leanings, and make much out of the "taint" of nuclear weaponeering that he says infected Apollo.  In particular Patrick claims that Apollo was used to calibrate and deploy guidance, control, and navigation aids for nuclear missiles.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on August 07, 2012, 10:34:38 PM
Many hoax authors hypothesize that Apollo had secret military objectives.
This one has always mystified me. What were the total budgets for NASA and the DoD during the 1960s? Though large by today's standards, NASA's budget must have been dwarfed by the DoD's during the Vietnam War just as today's NASA budget is dwarfed by the "War on Terror". So it makes no sense to use NASA as "cover" for things that could easily have been done under the DoD. It was (and is) routine to classify entire DoD projects, especially large space-oriented ones like reconnaissance, surveillance, ballistic missiles and missile defense.

As probably the most PR-oriented agency of the US federal government, NASA is the very last place you'd want to do something out of the public eye. While NASA does have classification authority, I get the impression that it is used to protect relatively limited aspects of projects that are otherwise completely public; is this generally so?

I see a fair number of declassified Confidential documents in the Apollo record but I don't think I've seen anything at Secret or above, and I also haven't seen any redactions in those documents. This is pretty unusual for declassified documents from other federal agencies, most of which are released with huge black boxes on most pages. What were the considerations for classification in those days? The formerly classified documents I've seen seem to fall into two categories: personal privacy, such as crew intercom transcripts, and until about the mid 1960s, detailed performance analyses of guidance systems


Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on August 08, 2012, 04:40:33 AM

This one has always mystified me.
OK, I'll bite. Please note that I don't believe a word of the following.  :D

<HB mode on>
We know that NASA has used DoD assets. eg ICBM platforms for Mercury/Gemini.
We know that DoD has used NASA assets. eg.Shuttle missions to launch military satellites.
We know that both are agencies of te ebil gubmint, and are thus largely interchangeable.
It is no leap at all to therefore reach the conclusion that DoD covertly created NASA as a convenient vehicle to perform the following tasks:
A) Present a public, ostensibly transparent body which could get funding in addition to the DoD itself.
B) Design hugely expensive missions, which would allow funds to be garnered for super sekrit DoD projects, for which the DoD was unable to secure funding and/or approval.
C) Perform the publicly announced space missions on the cheap to maximise the funds which could be diverted to covert ops.
D) Fake those missions which would be too expensive.
E) Pass the PR to the gullible public.
F) Distract the sheeple from the nefarious doings with the pretty pictures.

So NASA is simply a front set up by DoD to cover up all manner of shenanigans.
Why go to such trouble? you may ask.
Simple. Plausible deniability. If the DoD compartmentalises the whole thing, then no investigation of DoD budget spends will uncover the skulduggery. On the other hand, any investigation of NASA will find a happy mish mash of real and faked missions which appears plausible spending, especially given the sophistication of the fakery and the difficulty of proving it. For example, prove Curiousity really is on Mars right now. see? 2.6 billion in the bank simply by faking some telemetry and some images. In fact the failed Mars missions are even more fun. Billions "spent" and no need to even fake telemetry or images.

Once you sheeple reach this point of understanding, I can pretty well make up any delusional conspiracy I like.
<HB mode off>

WOW. After all that I can actually type with my nose.

Feel free to pick holes in that, I have no intention of defending that nonsense.  ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on August 08, 2012, 01:17:18 PM
OK, I'll bite. Please note that I don't believe a word of the following.  :D

Well then neither do we.  But someone will salute it if you run it up the flagpole.

Quote
We know that NASA has used DoD assets. eg ICBM platforms for Mercury/Gemini.

Yep, and still does.  The military has all the best toys and (sad as it seems) the best track record for safely managing high-risk technologies.  Some of what NASA does requires high-performance assets, and the discipline to operate them safely.  Hence the military helps.  But then again, this happens all over.  Many other government agencies rely, for example, on the Army Corps of Engineers simply because they're the in-house experts.

Quote
We know that DoD has used NASA assets. eg.Shuttle missions to launch military satellites.

One of the worst shotgun weddings in history.  Nixon essentially summoned the Air Force and NASA to the table and told them he was only going to approve funding for one launch vehicle program for the U.S. and it had better serve everyone's needs.  The generals and the nerds rolled their eyes but realized that it was better to share one toy than not to have any.  So the shuttle had to meet military standards and the Air Force had to stand in line with everyone else to get launch times.

After Challenger's demise grounded the fleet for while and the DoD was hard up for Keyhole satellites, the policy was quietly relaxed and the Air Force was allowed to run its own launch program again.  Sadly NASA had to deal with the legacy of compromise.

Quote
We know that both are agencies of te ebil gubmint, and are thus largely interchangeable.

Sure, because everyone who gets paid out of taxpayer funds is the same mindless robot.  ;D

Really, even just getting NASA to play nice with NASA is hard enough.  The reality of NASA is that it's the antithesis of the monolithic government institution.  It's a loose federation of squabbling, previously autonomous centers dominated by inefficiency, infighting, impenetrable bureaucracy, and political pawnbrokering.

Quote
A) Present a public, ostensibly transparent body which could get funding in addition to the DoD itself.

Asked and answered, of course.  NASA's budget doesn't even cover the cost of floor wax for the Pentagon.  DoD is so much more able to get "no questions asked" funding on its own and is able to set up front organizations, such as how the titanium for the SR-71 was procured from Soviet sources.

... etc. ...

Quote
F) Distract the sheeple from the nefarious doings with the pretty pictures.

Mmmm, pictures...

Quote
On the other hand, any investigation of NASA will find a happy mish mash of real and faked missions which appears plausible spending, especially given the sophistication of the fakery and the difficulty of proving it.

Oh sure, every conspiracy theory needs just enough genius and skullduggery to be interesting and sinister, but copious amounts of stupidity to allow pale crusaders to discover it from their parents' basements.

Quote
WOW. After all that I can actually type with my nose.

TMI.

Quote
Feel free to pick holes in that, I have no intention of defending that nonsense.  ;D

And I'm only responding because the conference call I'm on is dreadfully boring.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Grashtel on August 08, 2012, 01:49:55 PM
<HB mode on>
So NASA is simply a front set up by DoD to cover up all manner of shenanigans.
Why go to such trouble? you may ask.
Simple. Plausible deniability. If the DoD compartmentalises the whole thing, then no investigation of DoD budget spends will uncover the skulduggery. On the other hand, any investigation of NASA will find a happy mish mash of real and faked missions which appears plausible spending, especially given the sophistication of the fakery and the difficulty of proving it. For example, prove Curiousity really is on Mars right now. see? 2.6 billion in the bank simply by faking some telemetry and some images. In fact the failed Mars missions are even more fun. Billions "spent" and no need to even fake telemetry or images.
<HB mode off>
Which falls down right as soon as you look at the relative budgets for NASA and the DoD.  NASA's total budget is little more than pocket change for the DoD
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on August 08, 2012, 02:53:52 PM
The flaw in the argument is that the DoD has lost down the back of the couch more money than NASA has ever dreamt of.  If NASA is a front for money laundering, it's the most small time attempt at it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on August 09, 2012, 03:17:01 PM
Quote
But according to the 2012 international rankings, the Institut ranks in the low 4,000s.  By comparison Carnegie-Mellon is ranked #22, Purdue is #20.  One of my alma maters U. of Michigan is ranked #8 (Go Blue!), and the university I taught at is ranked #79.

Excuse my ignorance, but who does these rankings and where would I find the listing?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on August 09, 2012, 03:20:19 PM
Excuse my ignorance, but who does these rankings and where would I find the listing?

Some international educational foundation.  I'll see if they're online.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on August 12, 2012, 03:38:35 AM
Aw, dangit.  Doctor Socks is at Godlike Productions, all right.  And I wasted time playing along with one of his latest personae.  It wasn't until I ran into a different sock making the identical argument (with yet another set of nebulous yet important-sounding academic credentials) that the accompanying shoe finally dropped for me.  Now I just feel stupid.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Halcyon Dayz, FCD on August 12, 2012, 07:15:04 AM
The 'Engineer'?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on August 12, 2012, 10:02:45 PM
I am happy he has found a home among his peers.  I'd like to check up on the boy for old times sake, got a link to his thread?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on August 13, 2012, 01:13:56 AM
The 'Engineer'?

I admit to some doubt about him.  There's many of the usual traits, but the picture is not yet complete.  I'm expecting at any moment, though, to hear about the Wright Brothers, or a wife in Korea, or laps around the local track...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on August 13, 2012, 01:03:40 PM
I just lurk at JREF, but I've become convinced that Her Grey Eminence is Little Grey Rabbit reborn. My evidence is the smug tone, purposeful obscurity, and spelling of the word "grey".
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 13, 2012, 02:23:34 PM
That's how I spell "grey."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on August 13, 2012, 02:52:13 PM
I always write "grey."  It's the proper colour of aluminium.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 13, 2012, 05:04:56 PM
My best friend's last name is Gray (it's an immigration thing; the original name was something different and got "Americanized" to Gray), but other than that, I just like the way it looks better.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on August 13, 2012, 09:21:11 PM
Totally going off on a tangent, I think that when The Unnameable One starts posting again I'm going to habitually refer to him as one of Hunchy's 'sheep'.  Being the Anointed Grandson Of The Moon Hoax Theory(TM), it should only be a matter of time until he blows up.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on August 13, 2012, 11:01:55 PM
I always write "grey."  It's the proper colour of aluminium.

The reference to "grey" was a bit of a joke, but I think it's indicative that two posters use "grey" in their names, with a British spelling, and very much the same tone of voice.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DataCable on August 14, 2012, 09:40:58 AM
ZOMG, gillian is Dr. Socks!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 14, 2012, 12:05:35 PM
I have seriously been accused of it by someone who didn't know very much about me.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on August 14, 2012, 01:19:49 PM
Quote
I have seriously been accused of it by someone who didn't know very much about me.
Well, hey, isn't that what CTs do pretty much by definition?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on August 14, 2012, 06:38:11 PM
Accused of sock-puppetry in general, or accused of being Doctor "Fatty" Socks?

Because I can't think of a more polar opposite than someone who composes terse, grammatical, to the point posts.  With proper spelling, punctuation, capitalization and spacing as well!

(That's one of my seven deadly signs of Doctor Socks by the by...peculiarities in how he uses spaces and capitalization.)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 14, 2012, 08:51:24 PM
Specifically accused of being him.  A closet HB and probably one of the many socks.  Despite the obvious join-by date putting me on the forum years before him.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: LunarOrbit on August 14, 2012, 11:23:57 PM
Specifically accused of being him.  A closet HB and probably one of the many socks.  Despite the obvious join-by date putting me on the forum years before him.

Obviously you've just been planning it for a really long time. That's just how clever you are. ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on August 15, 2012, 07:31:13 AM
And of course a review of past postings proves you two never posted in the same forum at the same time.   :o

The deviousness never ends. 8)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 15, 2012, 12:33:02 PM
Yeah, I notice that the obvious join-by dates don't show up on this software.  Clearly all part of a clever ploy so that I can hide.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on August 15, 2012, 07:25:09 PM
And there went the shoe.  It's a RUSSIAN wife this time.  Plus he's a private pilot, aircraft mechanic, aeronautics engineer and chemist.  Well, okay -- so Jay's real-world credentials are as impressive.  Although Jay has a chorus, not a rock band.  Perhaps we should write a comic book about his exploits!

He's...interesting...this time.  Veers between modes.  Some of the usual gambit of finding off-the-cuff remarks in non-technical settings that he can contrast (aka "This NASA guy in an interview said the Martian atmosphere was less than 1/100th as dense, but NASA's own studies says under .5 percent!!!  NASA LIES!!!!)  And some of his usual scribbly math where he does seem to be actually trying to make a good calculation (with the wrong assumptions, natch!)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Valis on August 16, 2012, 09:13:25 AM
And there went the shoe.  It's a RUSSIAN wife this time.  Plus he's a private pilot, aircraft mechanic, aeronautics engineer and chemist.  Well, okay -- so Jay's real-world credentials are as impressive.  Although Jay has a chorus, not a rock band.  Perhaps we should write a comic book about his exploits!
Where did this happen?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on August 16, 2012, 03:43:20 PM
Godlike Productions.  Doctor Socks is all over the Mars threads there. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BertL on August 16, 2012, 03:59:37 PM
Godlike Productions.  Doctor Socks is all over the Mars threads there. 
How did you find out? I thought only insane people go there... :D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on August 16, 2012, 05:12:15 PM
Sometimes I like to take a break from sanity. 


Also, though; some of the posters there are capable of moving beyond wrong, fractally wrong, and not even wrong, to arrive at "could actually be right in some alternate universe."  And that interests me as a world-building exercise.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on August 17, 2012, 06:04:30 PM
(aka "This NASA guy in an interview said the Martian atmosphere was less than 1/100th as dense, but NASA's own studies says under .5 percent!!!  NASA LIES!!!!)
This is what happens when NASA tries to explain technical concepts to a general audience and is forced to simplify them. The pressure and density of the Martian atmosphere vary significantly over a Martian year because a significant fraction of the CO2 making it up freezes out in the polar ice caps. The ratio is more than 2:1, between 400 Pa (Pascals) and 870 Pa, according to Wikipedia. Earth's sea level pressure is about 101 kPa (101,325 Pa), so the Martian surface pressure varies between less than 0.4% and almost 1% of the earth's. I.e., both answers are right at different times.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Donnie B. on August 18, 2012, 10:58:40 AM
Aside from that, 0.5% is less than 1/100.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on August 18, 2012, 01:16:06 PM
Therein lies the problem.  That typical hoaxie approach is to mistake statements that are accurate for statements that are precise.

(Or, to be more accurate myself, some hoax believers are attracted towards non-technical descriptions because they know they can mis-interpret them in this way.  And their favorite game is to find two statements that they can then pretend to contrast.)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on August 19, 2012, 03:01:30 PM
You know, it seems to me that less and less of the HBs so-called "evidence" is becoming believable to them. Almost all of seem to be spiraling into a world view where everyone except them is either in fear of or being paid off by the government - either the elected one or the 'shadow' one. Hunchbacked is now spouting that the USA and USSR were in cahoots back in the 60s to fool... well, I'm not sure who that leaves.  I know CT thinking is an inherently paranoid mindset, but they're taking it to new depths.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on August 19, 2012, 04:36:02 PM
Hunchbacked is not the only one to assert that even the Cold War was a hoax, though it is certainly a logical progression in the reasoning of any Apollo denier. Much like a  Ponzi scheme, one must make increasingly ludicrous claims to keep the fiction going until it eventually collapses under its own weight.

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on August 19, 2012, 08:06:36 PM
I guess you could call it the Johnny Cochran effect - when the evidence is overwhelming, claim it's all either faked or planted, while throwing enough crap in the air that nobody understands what anybody's talking about.

The followers are really sad, though. When a commenter on one of LunarTuner's YT vids stated that there were "thousands of pieces of solid evidence" proving the hoax, I asked for examples. Her reply:

I've been studying Apollo for about 10 years. Although I don't consider myself an expert per say, I do know the best places to find all the evidence collected in one place. WARNING: The evidence against Apollo is so deep, it can easily take you 100 hours just to skim over it. The good news is that the rules of science dictates it only takes one piece of solid evidence to disprove a theory. I recommend AULIS dot com. Youtuber and video maker, Jarrah White, is another excellent source.

AllisonsHunt


According to her profile she's 22. So she's been studying this stuff since she was 12?

<facepalm>

 :o "excellent source?"
 8) Oi just dew wot Oi can, cobber.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 20, 2012, 06:38:10 PM
Side rant--why doesn't anyone use "per se" correctly anymore?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: pzkpfw on August 20, 2012, 08:15:39 PM
Side rant--why doesn't anyone use "per se" correctly anymore?

I had been meaning to comment that incorrect use of "clever sounding" phrases was an HB signature.

("A HB" or "an HB"?)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on August 20, 2012, 08:49:19 PM
Grammar aside, the exchange went from sad to scary:

It is no more necessary to "prove" the moon landings than to prove other historical events, like the Vietnam war, World War II, Lindbergh's flight, or Hurricane Camille. The burden of proof is on anyone who claims that a hoax took place. If you've been convinced since you were 12 tears old hat the landings were faked, your mind is probably hopelessly poisoned, but the fact is that not one of JW's claims stands up to the light of day.

Noldi400 in reply to AllisonsHunt 1 day ago
======================================

Your argument sounds suspiciously familiar with a strong bouquet of... sniff, sniff, sniff...  Jew.

AllisonsHunt in reply to Noldi400 1 day ago
======================================

Huh? I'm not Jewish, as it happens, but WTF does that have to do with anything? That's the most patently offensive thing I've ever seen on YT - and that's saying a lot. I'm done here.

Noldi400 in reply to AllisonsHunt 9 hours ago
======================================

If the Jew fits, wear it.

AllisonsHunt in reply to Noldi400 8 hours ago


Wow. I..... wow.  I think grammar is the least of her problems.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on August 20, 2012, 09:58:36 PM
I'm not Jewish either, but I've been taken aback by the intense (and as you saw, indiscriminate) antisemitism of more than one Apollo denier. I thought that sort of thing went completely out of style almost 70 years ago. The really funny thing is that I see this from some of the same people who scream about the US hiring ex-Nazis to work on its rockets.

Do they know any real history at all?

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 20, 2012, 10:39:58 PM
That's insane.  I'm rather reminded of Charlie Chaplin, who refused, after The Great Dictator, to say whether he was Jewish or not.  He said that confirming it would only confirm the prejudice, and denying it would instead confirm that there was something wrong with being Jewish. 

And I would say it's "an HB."  It's a pronunciation thing.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on August 20, 2012, 11:07:10 PM
Insanity was what crossed my mind... Does she assume everyone who doesn't share her views is Jewish?   The conversation actually started when I kinda scoffed at the idea that YouTube shapes public opinion. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on August 21, 2012, 05:48:51 AM
Yikes. Maybe she should have tea with the president of Iran.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Not Myself on August 21, 2012, 10:48:01 AM
Would you still like to have your say, if you were charged ten dollars per say?  ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: pzkpfw on August 21, 2012, 05:00:14 PM
Would you still like to have your say, if you were charged ten dollars per say?  ;D

I don't think that's such a bad thing (in proportion). If email cost more to send, we'd all get less spam.

I'd pay $0.01 (or maybe even $0.05) per post to any of the forums I belong to.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Al Johnston on August 21, 2012, 05:50:12 PM
$0.02 would be an appropriate amount ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Donnie B. on August 21, 2012, 07:10:12 PM
$0.02 would be an appropriate amount ;D
Thread won.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: LunarOrbit on August 21, 2012, 09:32:59 PM
Would you still like to have your say, if you were charged ten dollars per say?  ;D

I don't think that's such a bad thing (in proportion). If email cost more to send, we'd all get less spam.

I'd pay $0.01 (or maybe even $0.05) per post to any of the forums I belong to.

Hmmm... I think you're onto something here. ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: pzkpfw on August 21, 2012, 10:25:38 PM
Would you still like to have your say, if you were charged ten dollars per say?  ;D

I don't think that's such a bad thing (in proportion). If email cost more to send, we'd all get less spam.

I'd pay $0.01 (or maybe even $0.05) per post to any of the forums I belong to.

Hmmm... I think you're onto something here. ;)

...and at 1,000 posts I get a set of steak knives?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on August 21, 2012, 11:23:35 PM
...and at 1,000 posts I get a set of steak knives?
To use....how, exactly?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: LunarOrbit on August 21, 2012, 11:29:08 PM
Hmmm... I think you're onto something here. ;)

...and at 1,000 posts I get a set of steak knives?

Sure! At your current rate of posting you can expect to reach 1000 posts in about 30-35 years. ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on August 22, 2012, 07:38:19 AM
That may be fine for these guys, who have under 20 posts. But what about more active posters.  Do we get a volume discount?  At $0.02 I'd owe almost $8.00 by now.  That enough to buy two gallons of gas.  And whose dollars are we using her, the exchange fees will cost a bundle if we are dunned for every post.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 22, 2012, 01:15:22 PM
I would stop posting altogether, because I'm not good at moderation and can't afford my current level.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Not Myself on August 22, 2012, 03:18:40 PM
That may be fine for these guys, who have under 20 posts. But what about more active posters.  Do we get a volume discount?  At $0.02 I'd owe almost $8.00 by now.  That enough to buy two gallons of gas.  And whose dollars are we using her, the exchange fees will cost a bundle if we are dunned for every post.

Oh, it can be Zimbabwe dollars as far as I am concerned.  I just wanted to find a way to use "per say" in a sentence.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on August 22, 2012, 10:03:59 PM
That may be fine for these guys, who have under 20 posts. But what about more active posters.  Do we get a volume discount?  At $0.02 I'd owe almost $8.00 by now.  That enough to buy two gallons of gas.  And whose dollars are we using her, the exchange fees will cost a bundle if we are dunned for every post.

Oh, it can be Zimbabwe dollars as far as I am concerned.  I just wanted to find a way to use "per say" in a sentence.

a Z$10 Trillion note goes for US$0.99on eBay.  I think I can swing that. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: LunarOrbit on August 22, 2012, 10:25:55 PM
I would stop posting altogether

That's all the reason I need to never implement mandatory fees. :)

The forum doesn't really cost me much to operate. It would if it was as busy as BAUT, and if that ever happened I'd consider adding a voluntary donations box and/or advertising to help cover the costs. But any kind of membership fees would be unlikely, except maybe to give special privileges to the paid members.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on August 23, 2012, 02:10:08 AM
Modest advertising like Google ads can be good because they provide a source of amusement.

Imagine all the moon real estate ones we'd get.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 23, 2012, 04:46:28 AM
That's all the reason I need to never implement mandatory fees. :)

Aw . . . .

In all seriousness, Google ads wouldn't bother me, provided they didn't flash or make noise.  Though of course, we could also just accept the pun which started this sidebar and move on!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on August 23, 2012, 10:19:36 AM
I always wonder about the "pre-video" ads on YouTube - the advertisers don't seem to have caught on yet that you need to get your message into the first five seconds, before the 'SKIP' button becomes active.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: carpediem on August 25, 2012, 11:12:49 AM
I always wonder about the "pre-video" ads on YouTube - the advertisers don't seem to have caught on yet that you need to get your message into the first five seconds, before the 'SKIP' button becomes active.
Are there people out there not using Adblock Plus?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Valis on August 25, 2012, 11:23:06 AM
Are there people out there not using Adblock Plus?
Yes. I, for one, use Opera's built-in filtering system.

On a more serious note, there still are a lot of people who run IE without any ad blocking. Usually if you are able to install a third-party browser, you can also use an ad blocker, so it's a lot rarer to see a user with FF but without Adblock Plus.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: LunarOrbit on August 25, 2012, 11:40:10 AM
I don't use any ad blockers (other than the built in measures to prevent pop-ups and pop-unders). Most ads don't bother me. It's only when they employ seizure inducing animation or audio that I get bothered by them. Plus, as a web developer, I have to make sure I'm seeing the websites that I work on exactly the way they are supposed to, and I don't trust ad blockers not to remove non-advertisement images by accident.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 25, 2012, 01:19:26 PM
I don't use an ad blocker, but I'm thinking about starting just because the ads on the site where I read newspaper comics are really disruptive.  I hate anything where you can accidentally start a video playing without clicking on anything.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on August 25, 2012, 11:40:17 PM
I use ad-blocker plus, but disable it on some sites I read regularly.  I feel that if the adds are not overly annoying, I need to support the site. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Valis on August 26, 2012, 02:46:55 PM
I use ad-blocker plus, but disable it on some sites I read regularly.  I feel that if the adds are not overly annoying, I need to support the site.
Do you actually click on the ads? There are two ad revenue models: Per-view, and per-click. I've been told that the latter is more prevalent, but I haven't verified that myself. If the ads you see are per-click and you don't click on them, you've basically just wasted your bandwidth and screen estate.

I do understand the need to support a site, hence I make an annual donation to the forum I use a lot (it uses Google text ads, which are quite unobtrusive, but they take up vertical space, so I block them). Randomly clicking on the ads on that site would rather feel like wasting someone else's money (the advertizer's), as I would never buy anything advertized there, starting with the simple reason that I don't live in the same country as the forum is hosted on. And on the other hand, being active on a forum means that you are generating value for the site owner by your activity; a forum would die pretty quickly if it doesn't have an active community running it, pretty much like the few dozen "core" members here.

For ads on other sites, I pretty much feel as bad when blocking their ads as I feel when I change the TV channel during a commercial break.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on August 26, 2012, 05:24:19 PM
I use ad-blocker plus, but disable it on some sites I read regularly.  I feel that if the adds are not overly annoying, I need to support the site.
Do you actually click on the ads? There are two ad revenue models: Per-view, and per-click. I've been told that the latter is more prevalent, but I haven't verified that myself. If the ads you see are per-click and you don't click on them, you've basically just wasted your bandwidth and screen estate.

I have it turned off for lifehacker and gizmodo.  I don't know if those sites get pay per view or pay per click through. The ads are not bothersome and they have asked readers to turn it off, even as they have touted to program as a great tool.  If I wind up at any other Gawker sites, Adblock is on. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on August 31, 2012, 01:59:18 PM
I think FattyDash is on Yahoo!Answers:

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AtUuRCKdEpQScKSgNi1BrO1pCAx.;_ylv=3?qid=20120831104829AAfoEEW

1. Says Mike Collins said he didn't recall seeing stars.
2. Mentions a sextant.


EDIT: Damn!  He deleted it.  I wish I'd got a screenshot.  I wonder if he knew I'd found him out?  ;D

This is the profile: http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/activity?show=zurg4ZEBaa
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on August 31, 2012, 09:25:26 PM
Not that I'm suggesting this 'new' person is in any way related to old friends.. (yet).... but here can be found (http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/08/obituary#comments) a person by the handle of 'GraemeBird' (once again of allegedly Australian origin, it shames me to say..) who is popping up at various sites and soiling tributes to Neil A with ignorant comments.  It's worth scrolling up and reading the story - as previously recommended by Jay W - if you haven't already.

On that site, I've posted a few retorts.. I know I'm probably just encouraging a troll, but...

Anyway, 'GraemeBird' - why don't we see that name on forums?  I'm ChrLz everywhere I go, so I'm easy to spot..  C'mon over and let's see how you talk the talk..

that's if you haven't already been here, o'course... :D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gwiz on September 07, 2012, 04:56:19 AM
Not that I'm suggesting this 'new' person is in any way related to old friends.. (yet).... but here can be found (http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/08/obituary#comments) a person by the handle of 'GraemeBird' (once again of allegedly Australian origin, it shames me to say..) who is popping up at various sites and soiling tributes to Neil A with ignorant comments.  It's worth scrolling up and reading the story - as previously recommended by Jay W - if you haven't already.
On that forum, GraemeBird has just commented on a post by fattydash praising Patrick1000.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: carpediem on September 07, 2012, 02:56:30 PM
Quote from: Richard Turner
Who wrote this obituary? I would like to quote a line from it in a BBC Radio4 programme, recording in early October (and featuring Buzz Aldrin), and it deserves personal credit.
Quote from: fattydash
How about interviewing Patrick of the Apollo Docs of San Francisco for your show as well Richard Turner? Patrick is a physican, now widely recognized among his pro Apollo fraud peers as without question, the heretofore most important historian of the U.S. Manned Space Effort/Program. He has written the best history of Apollo to date. I could easily arrange a meeting for you. Not an opportunity that should be passed up. Best to you, fattydash, aka Spencer, ADSF.
Quote from: Richard Turner
No thanks.

Well it made me laugh anyway.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: pzkpfw on September 07, 2012, 09:04:38 PM
"heretofore"

Another of those "trying to sound smart" things.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on September 08, 2012, 05:32:00 AM
It really winds me up when people mix up the words "physician" and "physicist".
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on September 08, 2012, 01:43:31 PM
...and the words "historian" and "crackpot."

[Blatant hijack in 3... 2... 1...]
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the reason for putting the s[entence punctuation inside the quote marks (cautionary, demarcational, or other).  Someone posed a stumper to me the other day.  We were talking about the semicolon, and the first clause ended with a quoted exclamation.  Hence I thought

Quote
"...turtle!"; the result...

Do semicolons go inside the quotation marks?  What if you have grammatical punctuation (the semicolon) and emphatic punctuation (the exclamation point) at the same time?

Gillianren, I'm sorta hoping you have the answer.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on September 08, 2012, 02:57:36 PM
To answer your first question, no.  To answer your second, recast the sentence.  Ending with the exclamation point is perfectly legitimate. 

Honestly, I'm up against that problem all the time--I want to continue a sentence after a quoted exclamation point, but every way I can think to do it looks weird.  Since it is correct to essentially use a quoted exclamation point or question mark as a comma in dialogue--"Really?" the group demanded--I suppose you don't really need a comma if you're just using another phrase.  It still looks wrong to me.  Since a semicolon is essentially sentence-glue, I would think you can generally just end the sentence there and start a new one with your next clause.  However, grammatical punctuation (including question marks if what you're quoting isn't a question or exclamation points if what you're quoting isn't emphatic) still goes outside the quotation marks, even in American English.

I'm also, given how rotten my day ended up being yesterday, a little more pleased than is really merited that Jay is consulting me as an expert in something.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 09, 2012, 01:34:19 AM
Quote from: Richard Turner
Who wrote this obituary? I would like to quote a line from it in a BBC Radio4 programme, recording in early October (and featuring Buzz Aldrin), and it deserves personal credit.
Quote from: fattydash
How about interviewing Patrick of the Apollo Docs of San Francisco for your show as well Richard Turner? Patrick is a physican, now widely recognized among his pro Apollo fraud peers as without question, the heretofore most important historian of the U.S. Manned Space Effort/Program. He has written the best history of Apollo to date. I could easily arrange a meeting for you. Not an opportunity that should be passed up. Best to you, fattydash, aka Spencer, ADSF.
Quote from: Richard Turner
No thanks.

Well it made me laugh anyway.

Made me whoop hysterically.

Does Patrick really believe that posting on websites (until he gets banned) equates to "writing a history"? Does he not know that using "heretofore" implies that he was previously the best, but for some reason is no longer? Does he not realize that we can only watch with pity as one sock praises another?

Enquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on September 09, 2012, 05:36:59 AM
Hmm.  There has been a rather nasty turn of events at "The Economist":
http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/08/obituary (http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/08/obituary)
Scroll down to the comments and see who (ISN'T) there...
(Note that I'm hoping that within a short time the problem will be removed..)

I've notified both the Economist and the person being impersonated.


Seriously, Patrick/Fatty/.. - GET HELP.  This will end in tears, and it won't be anyone's but yours.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on September 09, 2012, 09:01:01 AM
Talk about straw man posting.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: carpediem on September 09, 2012, 11:53:26 AM
He must be really desperate for attention these days. Or he is finally coming completely unravelled.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on September 09, 2012, 12:51:11 PM
I notified the Economist and asked that the content be removed.  I also posted a disclaimer.  I am considering legal action.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on September 09, 2012, 01:01:08 PM
To answer your first question, no.

To those of us with experience in formally specified languages (i.e., those with rigid syntax), including commas and periods inside quotation marks is uncomfortable when the marks intend to enclose local text to be treated differently and the punctuation applies to the larger sentence.

Quote
To answer your second, recast the sentence.

We did that, if only to avoid the awkward punctuation.  Tommy exclaimed, "That's a turtle!"; the result was dramatic became "That's a turtle!" exclaimed Tommy; the result was dramatic.

Quote
Since it is correct to essentially use a quoted exclamation point or question mark as a comma in dialogue--"Really?" the group demanded--I suppose you don't really need a comma if you're just using another phrase.

When the punctuation is emotive and applies to the quoted text, including it within the quotation marks seems natural.  And when the quotation ends the sentence, co-opting the internal punctuation also to end the sentence seems natural enough.  It's when you want to apply something like a semicolon -- which has no spoken equivalent and no emotive content, but is instead merely the "sentence glue" you name -- that you begin to distrust your common sense.

Quote
I'm also, given how rotten my day ended up being yesterday, a little more pleased than is really merited that Jay is consulting me as an expert in something.

It behooves us all to be gracious with the expertise we have been granted.  Success is not in how much you know, but in what expertise you can bring to bear -- regardless of source.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on September 09, 2012, 03:11:41 PM
To those of us with experience in formally specified languages (i.e., those with rigid syntax), including commas and periods inside quotation marks is uncomfortable when the marks intend to enclose local text to be treated differently and the punctuation applies to the larger sentence.

Well, and of course British English has slightly different rules on the subject than American English.  I don't know why we made the changes, either.

Quote
We did that, if only to avoid the awkward punctuation.  Tommy exclaimed, "That's a turtle!"; the result was dramatic became "That's a turtle!" exclaimed Tommy; the result was dramatic.

Perfectly acceptable, though in this particular case, there seems literally no reason to insist that they have to be one sentence.  After all, "The result was dramatic" is a complete sentence in and of itself; that's why using a semicolon is acceptable in the first place.

Quote
When the punctuation is emotive and applies to the quoted text, including it within the quotation marks seems natural.  And when the quotation ends the sentence, co-opting the internal punctuation also to end the sentence seems natural enough.  It's when you want to apply something like a semicolon -- which has no spoken equivalent and no emotive content, but is instead merely the "sentence glue" you name -- that you begin to distrust your common sense.

And indeed, so do I, which is why my first advice in a situation like that is always to recast the sentence.  I don't trust my own common sense on the subject, either.

Quote
It behooves us all to be gracious with the expertise we have been granted.  Success is not in how much you know, but in what expertise you can bring to bear -- regardless of source.

Quite.  It was still good for my self esteem on a day when I particularly needed it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Drewid on September 09, 2012, 05:39:50 PM
An aside

Patrick turns up at BAUT  (well, Cosmoquest) as 'carboniclight' and is spat out again almost immediately.

Introduces himself as
Quote
My friends call me "icy". I am a radiation oncologist just getting started into a year of a much needed sabbatical. From the UK, will be in the states for a year.


Ever the master of impenetrable disguise  ::)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: scooter on September 09, 2012, 07:03:57 PM
An aside

Patrick turns up at BAUT  (well, Cosmoquest) as 'carboniclight' and is spat out again almost immediately.

Introduces himself as
Quote
My friends call me "icy". I am a radiation oncologist just getting started into a year of a much needed sabbatical. From the UK, will be in the states for a year.


Ever the master of impenetrable disguise  ::)

That guy is almost pathological...really disturbing. Combine it with his ranting, furious youtube videos, I start to really worry about his type. He probably think he's clever too.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on September 09, 2012, 07:10:58 PM
I notified the Economist and asked that the content be removed.  I also posted a disclaimer.  I am considering legal action.
I've obviously missed something...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: LunarOrbit on September 09, 2012, 07:25:37 PM
I notified the Economist and asked that the content be removed.  I also posted a disclaimer.  I am considering legal action.
I've obviously missed something...


Fattydash was posting comments under the name JayUtah, but I guess he realized he could be in some serious trouble because he has changed his screen name to JayKentucky.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Donnie B. on September 09, 2012, 08:56:30 PM
Is legal action even possible when one's online identity is stolen like that?  I can't recall any precedents but it's not an area I know much about.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 09, 2012, 11:00:09 PM
Well, I wouldn't lay money on the stability of anyone who writes in Patrick's "HAHAHAHA!!!!" style.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on September 09, 2012, 11:23:48 PM
Is legal action even possible when one's online identity is stolen like that?  I can't recall any precedents but it's not an area I know much about.

Yes, it's against California state law (Patrick lives in San Francisco) and is a criminal offense as well as a civil tort.  The impersonation must be credible and malicious.

The First Amendment protects practically anything he might say about me, as unflattering as it may be.  But it does not protect him when he pretends to be me, and in that persona to try to cause harm or defamation to me or others by uttering statements likely to be attributed to me.  The law was originally intended to punish cyber bullying, but has been extended to other defamatory and unlawful activity.  Since "JayUtah" is a well-enough known moniker for me, and refers to someone who has attached his professional reputation to that identity, then assuming that identity for the purposes of damaging that reputation or falsely endorsing or advocating something, is illegal.

Depending on what I hear back from The Economist web master, I may file a complaint with the San Francisco area prosecutor unless Patrick removes the unlawful posts altogether.  Once that is done, the matter is out of my hands.  If he finds he has a case, he will prosecute and Mr. Patrick T[redacted]li will stand tall before a judge.  The fact that he has changed the offending user name is irrelevant, since the offending content and false identity were allowed to stand for some time, sufficient to be noticed and commented upon by others.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: LunarOrbit on September 10, 2012, 12:16:47 AM
And now someone is posting under the name "buzzaldrin". Smart move.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: pzkpfw on September 10, 2012, 12:25:46 AM
And now someone is posting under the name "buzzaldrin". Smart move.

Yes. He punches.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on September 10, 2012, 12:50:41 AM
The little twerp has about a half-dozen sock puppets talking to each other.  Doesn't that violate the Economist's TOS?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gwiz on September 10, 2012, 06:42:22 AM
The little twerp has about a half-dozen sock puppets talking to each other.  Doesn't that violate the Economist's TOS?
He might be in trouble with them, as several of the fake identities seem to have been deleted today.  Doesn't stop him replacing them with new ones, of course.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 10, 2012, 09:41:07 AM
I'm wondering if we can lure Patrick to some sort of mock website (I was going to use the word "dummy" but thought that might be misconstrued), where he can rant to his heart's content about being the world's greatest Apollo historian - bike designer - sextant user - medical practitioner. Perhaps program it so that a standard response would be automatically generated now and then, so he thinks people are actually reading his stuff. Because he really seems to have a deep-seated need to have an audience for his obsessions. It goes beyond amusing into pitiable.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Drewid on September 10, 2012, 04:26:56 PM
Annnnnd again at Jref I think.   Don't get an infraction over it Abaddon. :p
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on September 10, 2012, 04:50:32 PM
Peter May?  I'm leaning that way due to the "ex pat" and "engineer" bits and general incoherence.   I'll give him a bit more rope myself, not that I am a mod.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Drewid on September 10, 2012, 04:57:20 PM
Yeah, He might come up with something entertaining before he blows it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on September 10, 2012, 05:25:09 PM
I set out a little bait.  We'll see what happens.  I'm not 100% that "Peter May" is actually poor deranged Patrick ______, but mostly so.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 10, 2012, 08:06:09 PM
Peter May?  I'm leaning that way due to the "ex pat" and "engineer" bits and general incoherence.   I'll give him a bit more rope myself, not that I am a mod.

I note he also has Patrick's obsession with giving each JREF post a title. It's very rare to see anyone else do that.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on September 10, 2012, 08:10:12 PM
Peter May?  I'm leaning that way due to the "ex pat" and "engineer" bits and general incoherence.   I'll give him a bit more rope myself, not that I am a mod.

I note he also has Patrick's obsession with giving each JREF post a title. It's very rare to see anyone else do that.

I thought I read somewhere it was because he was using a script that automatically did that.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ApolloGnomon on September 10, 2012, 10:06:08 PM
Ew. What a disgusting comments thread that turned into. Although I'm pleased to see that some of the posts were deleted just between the time I started looking at it and now.

Still, I'm now filled with the urge to go bleach my toilet bowl.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on September 11, 2012, 05:27:56 PM
Peter May?  I'm leaning that way due to the "ex pat" and "engineer" bits and general incoherence.   I'll give him a bit more rope myself, not that I am a mod.

I note he also has Patrick's obsession with giving each JREF post a title. It's very rare to see anyone else do that.

And both "exciteable" [sic] and "Peter May" misspell "Clavious"
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 12, 2012, 10:10:32 AM
Annnnnd again at Jref I think.   Don't get an infraction over it Abaddon. :p
I shall endeavour not to do so
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on September 13, 2012, 07:38:58 AM
I set out a little bait.  We'll see what happens.  I'm not 100% that "Peter May" is actually poor deranged Patrick ______, but mostly so.
I agree, there's just too many similarities not to wonder if it's ol' Patrick, but we'll see.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 13, 2012, 10:23:51 AM
I think where he responded to a suggestion he was Patrick with "I have no idea what you're referring to," was the funniest thing I've read for some time.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Drewid on September 13, 2012, 03:17:45 PM
He stopped adding titles to posts as soon as it was pointed out over here.

Now there's a coincidence.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: pzkpfw on September 13, 2012, 03:35:00 PM
He stopped adding titles to posts as soon as it was pointed out over here.

Now there's a coincidence.

At least he's doing research...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on September 13, 2012, 05:26:33 PM
He stopped adding titles to posts as soon as it was pointed out over here.

Now there's a coincidence.

Yeah I noticed that too.  Gotta love someone who is tailoring his performance to the critics' comments.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on September 14, 2012, 06:58:50 AM
He's been watching this thread for some time, I'm sure of it.

(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-greet022.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 14, 2012, 11:41:48 AM
OK. I am skirting the edges of the JREF MA now.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on September 14, 2012, 03:22:40 PM
OK. I am skirting the edges of the JREF MA now.
Be careful, he's not worth a yellow card.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: slang on September 14, 2012, 03:35:19 PM
Patrick turns up at BAUT  (well, Cosmoquest) as 'carboniclight' and is spat out again almost immediately.
[...]
Ever the master of impenetrable disguise  ::)

That isn't his only attempt at CosmoQuest recently. There was at least one other attempt that never made it out of the mod queue, but in that case he didn't even bother to hide who he was.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 14, 2012, 04:17:47 PM
OK. I am skirting the edges of the JREF MA now.
Be careful, he's not worth a yellow card.
s'ok, am biting everything.

ETA:: But if you had some balm????
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on September 14, 2012, 04:52:20 PM
For no good reason, I amused myself by making a list of Patrick T.'s sock puppets.  I know I am missing some on BAUT/Cosmoquest, apollohoax, and I'm pretty sure there were a couple on JREF.

Bad Astronomy:
DoctorTea
BFischer
BSpassky
Sicilian
HighGain
ChrisENT
carboniclight

apollohoax:
fattydash
mvinson
piersquared
newyorkmary
briskwalk

JREF:
Patrick1000

The Economist web site:
JaysFatHeiny
thesilverheinyoftimbuktu
PeterMayTheJaySlayer
The Real Jay Kentucky
JayUtah -> JayKentucky
TiajuanaJay
buzzaldrin
exciteable
sandwich221
speculationflys
TorryStills
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on September 14, 2012, 05:00:22 PM
What a sad lonely life he must lead.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Laurel on September 14, 2012, 05:03:16 PM
MaryB was another of his names on BAUT.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on September 14, 2012, 05:08:11 PM

The Economist web site:
JaysFatHeiny
thesilverheinyoftimbuktu
PeterMayTheJaySlayer
The Real Jay Kentucky
JayUtah -> JayKentucky
TiajuanaJay
buzzaldrin
exciteable
sandwich221
speculationflys
TorryStills

I've never had such a devoted fan club.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on September 14, 2012, 05:40:37 PM
You know, every time I worry that we're getting weirdly fixated on you, Jay, I think, "Yeah, but compare us to some of the HBs.  At least we like Jay!"
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on September 14, 2012, 05:50:22 PM
The most recent series of rants and self conversations are weird.   Continuously being banned whenever he shows up at any respectable forum must have cut him off from the attention he craves and put him over the edge. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: scooter on September 14, 2012, 08:49:35 PM
The most recent series of rants and self conversations are weird.   Continuously being banned whenever he shows up at any respectable forum must have cut him off from the attention he craves and put him over the edge.

So true...I'm surprised the Economist site hasn't wiped that thread...they should...all the mess below Mr Armstrong's obit is just wrong.
As for the "author" of that mess...never run into such a life-less entity in my life. Feel sorry for his parent(s).
Very wierd, and disturbing.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on September 14, 2012, 09:48:59 PM
Yah.  This is a disturbing trend.  More and more sock puppets each time, even less effort spent to protect his identity or to keep up the pretense of making an argument.  He's far, far from ma###b###us level, but he's starting to get a little scary.

And no longer fun.  In large part because he no longer seems to care enough to make an argument worth responding to.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on September 15, 2012, 03:34:17 AM
For no good reason, I amused myself by making a list of Patrick T.'s sock puppets.  I know I am missing some on BAUT/Cosmoquest, apollohoax, and I'm pretty sure there were a couple on JREF.

Bad Astronomy:
DoctorTea
BFischer
BSpassky
Sicilian
HighGain
ChrisENT
carboniclight

apollohoax:
fattydash
mvinson
piersquared
newyorkmary
briskwalk

JREF:
Patrick1000

The Economist web site:
JaysFatHeiny
thesilverheinyoftimbuktu
PeterMayTheJaySlayer
The Real Jay Kentucky
JayUtah -> JayKentucky
TiajuanaJay
buzzaldrin
exciteable
sandwich221
speculationflys
TorryStills

Don't forget C Alliss on Yahoo!Answers - the most damning bit of evidence being that he is quite prolific there but within minutes of my linking to one of his questions in this thread, it was deleted.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Peter B on September 15, 2012, 07:49:41 AM

The Economist web site:
JaysFatHeiny
thesilverheinyoftimbuktu
PeterMayTheJaySlayer
The Real Jay Kentucky
JayUtah -> JayKentucky
TiajuanaJay
buzzaldrin
exciteable
sandwich221
speculationflys
TorryStills

I've never had such a devoted fan club.

Made me think of that Doctor Who episode from a couple of years ago - "The End of Time" - when the Master "...uses [a] device to replace all of humankind with his DNA, creating a 'Master Race' where everyone looks and thinks like the Master..."

I don't know what this guy looks like, but the idea of all humanity except the members of this board looking like him gives me the willies.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on September 15, 2012, 09:58:41 AM
Add:

dastardly (BAUT - how could we forget sextantboy?)

vigilantnight (I think that was here..?)

TotallyStokedDude (Youtube)

Then these from AboveTopSecret - where he went rather ballistic after a slow start
decisively
DigItLosseJam
WeaselSpencer
Capablanca
thelegendaryfattydash
danblue
barbarasmith
surferdude
feldspartinklepickle
felix4567
lanthammysteriosos
DelbertDoogleSchmidt
CrushTheWeenies
GoodieGoodie
JJayUtahh
JayUtah (yes, he's done Jay impressions at ATS as well..)

.. and quite a few others by the looks - I may return and add more..

Patrick, if you are listening (and I bet you are..).. when you look at this behavior when it all gets collated, and think about it.. you don't think you might have a bit of a problem?  Have you spoken to anyone about your need for hundreds of identities to get your 'point' across, and whether, perhaps, your time might be better spent in other ways?  Leaving a horrifyingly easy-to-follow/trace public record of your delusion/trolling/illogic/lack of education may not be all that smart..
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on September 15, 2012, 10:12:51 AM
Here is a partial list from ATS:

decisively
Pauline4999
RhesusFibert
lanthammysteriosos
DelbertDoogleSchmidt
Capablanca
WeaselSpencer
CrushTheWeenies
GoodieGoodie
DigItLosseJam
phoenixwinchester
thelegendaryfattydash
JayUtah
JJayUtahh
SkankBuster
Theresaaa
DuneFan
slystone
FelixDoodleBrook

And, possibly, "Dr.Dana" who made a single inscrutable post.


Patrick states his "manifesto" here:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread850806/pg1

I am alarmed by his increasingly violent imagery.

ETA: I think I might have caught a couple you missed!  ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on September 15, 2012, 10:36:18 AM
I am alarmed by his increasingly violent imagery.
Yes, I think some of the stuff he posted at ATS was of quite serious concern.  Whether it was trolling or not, the sickening vitriol and the way he 'snaps' when things don't go his way, may suggest some very deep and concerning personal issues.  I hope he gets the help/intervention needed..

Quote
ETA: I think I might have caught a couple you missed!  ;)
Yes, indeed there are more.. but I think the point has been well and truly made.  It's interesting that he seems to think that he is 'raising awareness'.. whether or not he is trolling, you only have to read the replies to see that all he is doing is revealing a very unpleasant and deceitful person.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 15, 2012, 10:55:18 AM
Here is a partial list from ATS:

decisively
Pauline4999
RhesusFibert
lanthammysteriosos
DelbertDoogleSchmidt
Capablanca
WeaselSpencer
CrushTheWeenies
GoodieGoodie
DigItLosseJam
phoenixwinchester
thelegendaryfattydash
JayUtah
JJayUtahh
SkankBuster
Theresaaa
DuneFan
slystone
FelixDoodleBrook

And, possibly, "Dr.Dana" who made a single inscrutable post.


Patrick states his "manifesto" here:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread850806/pg1

I am alarmed by his increasingly violent imagery.

ETA: I think I might have caught a couple you missed!  ;)
Jeez. Does ATS have no sockpuppet rule?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on September 15, 2012, 11:06:17 AM
Quote
Jeez. Does ATS have no sockpuppet rule?

Yes. After he was finally banned as "decisively," he bombarded the forum with belligerent posts under various names. Some of these posts simply consisted of a YouTube video of Olympic swimming! As each sock puppet was banned, another would spring to life. It is unclear just how many false identities Patrick used (and may still be using) there.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 15, 2012, 12:15:29 PM
Side note: My endorsement of you, DJW001, as not a sock of fattypaddy, got chucked into the forget bin over on JREF.

The accusation may arise again, and if so, I will post it again.

I did see your "thank you", and you are welcome.

ETA: Your thank you also got chucked in the forget bin
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: slang on September 15, 2012, 03:25:23 PM
Some more from BAUT/CosmoQuest, though not all of these managed to get any posts in: thelegendaryfattydash, ClaudiaT, MaryB, Spencer, DogGoneSmart, mothertheresa, BuzzAldrinsTwin. Sad.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 15, 2012, 03:34:54 PM
Some more from BAUT/CosmoQuest, though not all of these managed to get any posts in: thelegendaryfattydash, ClaudiaT, MaryB, Spencer, DogGoneSmart, mothertheresa, BuzzAldrinsTwin. Sad.
I am surprised he is not on here.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on September 15, 2012, 04:27:37 PM
Some more from BAUT/CosmoQuest, though not all of these managed to get any posts in: thelegendaryfattydash, ClaudiaT, MaryB, Spencer, DogGoneSmart, mothertheresa, BuzzAldrinsTwin. Sad.
I am surprised he is not on here.

I think he lurks to gather intelligence.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on September 15, 2012, 04:39:27 PM
Some more from BAUT/CosmoQuest, though not all of these managed to get any posts in: thelegendaryfattydash, ClaudiaT, MaryB, Spencer, DogGoneSmart, mothertheresa, BuzzAldrinsTwin. Sad.
I am surprised he is not on here.

I think he lurks to gather intelligence.

Well he has to try to get it from somewhere.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on September 15, 2012, 04:43:23 PM
Some more from BAUT/CosmoQuest, though not all of these managed to get any posts in: thelegendaryfattydash, ClaudiaT, MaryB, Spencer, DogGoneSmart, mothertheresa, BuzzAldrinsTwin. Sad.
I am surprised he is not on here.

I think he lurks to gather intelligence.

Well he has to try to get it from somewhere.

:lol:
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on September 15, 2012, 05:22:31 PM
Our friend has been busy. No wonder he hasn't had the time to reply on JREF:

http://www.economist.com/comment/1635261#comment-1635261

Note how there is often only one minute between the post times of these blocks of text. Anyone can see that it is all cut and paste. Of course, the whole object of the exercise is for search engines to spew out The Economist as "endorsing" his work.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 15, 2012, 05:51:42 PM
Our friend has been busy.
No kidding. That is a whole lot of...Something.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on September 15, 2012, 06:01:16 PM
Our friend has been busy.

Wow, what a disturbed mind.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on September 15, 2012, 06:05:08 PM
And in typical hoaxie fashion, not a single one of the ones on that thread respond to Doctor Sock's stupidity with so much as a "I say, that's a bit much old boy."  Instead they blithely post their own reasons for disbelieving in the Apollo Landings as if this were the most reasonable thing in the world.

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on September 15, 2012, 07:04:22 PM
Our friend has been busy.

Wow, what a disturbed mind.

Some of his latest posts are pure word salad.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on September 15, 2012, 09:22:23 PM
Our friend has been busy.

Wow, what a disturbed mind.

Some of his latest posts are pure word salad.
This whole frantic rage of posting makes me wonder if we are going to see him in the headlines sometime soon.  That is not the work of a man in control of his life.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on September 15, 2012, 09:40:13 PM
Here is a partial list from ATS:

decisively
Pauline4999
RhesusFibert
lanthammysteriosos
DelbertDoogleSchmidt
Capablanca
WeaselSpencer
CrushTheWeenies
GoodieGoodie
DigItLosseJam
phoenixwinchester
thelegendaryfattydash
JayUtah
JJayUtahh
SkankBuster
Theresaaa
DuneFan
slystone
FelixDoodleBrook

And, possibly, "Dr.Dana" who made a single inscrutable post.


Patrick states his "manifesto" here:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread850806/pg1

I am alarmed by his increasingly violent imagery.

ETA: I think I might have caught a couple you missed!  ;)
Wow, just wow...all those socks, and even impersonating Jay. It's been obvious to me for some time that this is one troubled person, but I think I might have been underestimating how troubled. :-\
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ApolloGnomon on September 16, 2012, 03:40:14 AM
You know, every time I worry that we're getting weirdly fixated on you, Jay, I think, "Yeah, but compare us to some of the HBs.  At least we like Jay!"

 ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ApolloGnomon on September 16, 2012, 03:43:29 AM
Our friend has been busy.

Wow, what a disturbed mind.

Some of his latest posts are pure word salad.
This whole frantic rage of posting makes me wonder if we are going to see him in the headlines sometime soon.  That is not the work of a man in control of his life.

Sometimes doctors write themselves prescriptions.

I find it sad to contemplate.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on September 16, 2012, 08:43:30 AM
Our friend has been busy.

Wow, what a disturbed mind.

Some of his latest posts are pure word salad.
This whole frantic rage of posting makes me wonder if we are going to see him in the headlines sometime soon.  That is not the work of a man in control of his life.

I am very concerned about that. He seems to have more and more time on his hands.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: scooter on September 16, 2012, 03:18:51 PM
With his writing "style", you'd thing he gets paid by the word. I can't remember seeing anyone who could say so little using so many words. Maybe it was my junior high english teacher, who hated wordy papers with run-on sentences, that brought it to mind. Is it an attempt to come across as terribly literate?

Any thoughts from our resident expert?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: darren r on September 16, 2012, 03:32:50 PM
I wish I had Patrick's talent for coming up with unusual and distinctive forum names. Every time I try to use something different it comes back as 'already in use' so I just end up utilising the same old name all the time. Then again, it's my real name and I've got nothing to hide.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on September 16, 2012, 03:48:54 PM
With his writing "style", you'd thing he gets paid by the word. I can't remember seeing anyone who could say so little using so many words. Maybe it was my junior high english teacher, who hated wordy papers with run-on sentences, that brought it to mind. Is it an attempt to come across as terribly literate?

Any thoughts from our resident expert?

I think he thinks his writing style makes him seem more educated and therefore more worth listening to.  While it is true that, the more educated you are, the more complicated your sentence structure generally is, it's also true that you get more things right than he does!  His style probably fools uneducated people--ones who do not themselves know how to properly formulate a complex-compound sentence--but just makes him look ridiculous to people with the educational level to which he is pretending.  (I believe we established that there is a doctor meeting his initial self-description, but it was never established to my satisfaction that he was, in fact, that doctor.)  And that's even assuming that sentence structure has anything to do with physics.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on September 16, 2012, 09:04:13 PM
The more I read, the more I think, "Mark David Chapman".

Be careful, Jay.  :(
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on September 17, 2012, 01:38:44 AM
His style always made me think of a teen trying to impress.  Big words (that he didn't always understand), gratuitous Shakespeare quotes (that sounded like he was using Barlett's Online).

But the most annoying thing was something shared by a great many people with legitimate credentials in academia.  And that was the inability to figure out what he was trying to say before he set off trying to say it.



(I edited this post three or four times while writing it, each time in a direction Doctor Socks would never go...to make it SHORTER.)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on September 17, 2012, 02:25:10 AM
His style always made me think of a teen trying to impress.  Big words (that he didn't always understand), gratuitous Shakespeare quotes (that sounded like he was using Barlett's Online).

You know, I once used that very example to explain to a friend why it was obvious that the writers weren't as smart as the character they were writing for on a TV show.  He quoted "my kingdom for a horse" just because he happened to be doing something to do with a horse.  Even she knew that it wasn't something real geniuses would do, and she's not herself a genius. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Drewid on September 17, 2012, 04:13:06 AM
His style always made me think of a teen trying to impress.  Big words (that he didn't always understand), gratuitous Shakespeare quotes (that sounded like he was using Barlett's Online).

But the most annoying thing was something shared by a great many people with legitimate credentials in academia.  And that was the inability to figure out what he was trying to say before he set off trying to say it.



(I edited this post three or four times while writing it, each time in a direction Doctor Socks would never go...to make it SHORTER.)

This absolutely.   Someone who is up for impersonating other people online would be quite happy do to that all the way down.  I was never convinced by the doctor thing, he got too much medical stuff wrong.  Someone connected with a hospital perhaps, or a teenage son of a real doctor.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 17, 2012, 04:55:00 AM
His style always made me think of a teen trying to impress.  Big words (that he didn't always understand), gratuitous Shakespeare quotes (that sounded like he was using Barlett's Online).

But the most annoying thing was something shared by a great many people with legitimate credentials in academia.  And that was the inability to figure out what he was trying to say before he set off trying to say it.



(I edited this post three or four times while writing it, each time in a direction Doctor Socks would never go...to make it SHORTER.)

This absolutely.   Someone who is up for impersonating other people online would be quite happy do to that all the way down.  I was never convinced by the doctor thing, he got too much medical stuff wrong.  Someone connected with a hospital perhaps, or a teenage son of a real doctor.
DoctorSocks is real, but as far as my investigation went, appears to have been put on enforced leave of some kind. Personally, I favour the "Doc on the Rocks" hypothesis, a breakdown of some sort. I backed off the investigation once mental illness became an aspect, but I could rekindle my contact with various SF clinics.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on September 17, 2012, 08:30:40 AM
DoctorSocks is real, but as far as my investigation went, appears to have been put on enforced leave of some kind. Personally, I favour the "Doc on the Rocks" hypothesis, a breakdown of some sort. I backed off the investigation once mental illness became an aspect, but I could rekindle my contact with various SF clinics.
Interesting - sounds very plasuible from what I've uncovered.  I know who you are hinting at, but may I impertinently ask (pm would be fine), did you find anything that *positively* identified him to be that particular person?  I've seen posts where Drsocks mentioned said person, and also ones where he used said person's name as his online identity..  But that still leaves the (slim) possibility that he is simply pointing readers AT that identity as part of his games.

So I'm wondering if anyone has directly contacted said person to get the confirmation, or verified it in some other way...?

Of course, if he ISN'T said person, then said person needs to be fully informed and take whatever action he sees fit..


Ummm.. did all that make any sense? :D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on September 17, 2012, 09:21:32 AM
DoctorSocks is real, but as far as my investigation went, appears to have been put on enforced leave of some kind. Personally, I favour the "Doc on the Rocks" hypothesis, a breakdown of some sort. I backed off the investigation once mental illness became an aspect, but I could rekindle my contact with various SF clinics.
Interesting - sounds very plasuible from what I've uncovered.  I know who you are hinting at, but may I impertinently ask (pm would be fine), did you find anything that *positively* identified him to be that particular person?  I've seen posts where Drsocks mentioned said person, and also ones where he used said person's name as his online identity..  But that still leaves the (slim) possibility that he is simply pointing readers AT that identity as part of his games.

So I'm wondering if anyone has directly contacted said person to get the confirmation, or verified it in some other way...?

Of course, if he ISN'T said person, then said person needs to be fully informed and take whatever action he sees fit..


Ummm.. did all that make any sense? :D

Yes, that made sense. I googled the person in question and noticed something interesting. There were three or four pages of internet "yellow pages" listings, then practically nothing. No photo of him and his wife at the Opera's Black & White ball. No announcement that he had been named a trustee at his church. No angry letter to an editor about the rising cost of malpractice insurance. No speech at the rotary club. No daughter being named class valedictorian. No Facebook photo of him at a friend's wedding. Doctors lead carefully managed social lives; they are expected to be "pillars of the community." Outside of playing jazz in his brother's basement, the doctor in question appears to have no social life. (Try googling your own doctor, you'll see immediately what I'm talking about. Mine is prominent in MoveOn.org!)

Oddly, in the one instance of charitable giving I found, he was referred to as "Pat T----," not "Patrick," and no title. Medicine is a discreet profession, fellow doctors tend not to publicize the faults and failures of their colleagues. He may be going through a "rough patch," but has not had his certification pulled. This is speculation, of course.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on September 17, 2012, 10:10:03 AM
Among the items that led me to believe our Dr Socks was he same as the California physician was a physician review web site where the one patient review was too complementary.  Not only of his skill, but of his person.  It struck me as being convincingly similar to Dr Socks' self referential sock puppets.  Another observation that convinced me were the obvious resourcefulness to find and bring new information into his "arguments" when challenged.  Misinterpreted and misused no doubt, but he is obviously good at finding information and is a quick reader.  There also one web site for a physician group that that claims a doctor with that name as an employee and the photo matches Dr Socks' general age group.   Dr Socks just seems too dedicated to be a teen troll, dedicated to the point of an unhealthy obsession.

Based on my earlier feeling, I've started a Google alert on his name. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 17, 2012, 10:51:07 AM
DoctorSocks is real, but as far as my investigation went, appears to have been put on enforced leave of some kind. Personally, I favour the "Doc on the Rocks" hypothesis, a breakdown of some sort. I backed off the investigation once mental illness became an aspect, but I could rekindle my contact with various SF clinics.
Interesting - sounds very plasuible from what I've uncovered.  I know who you are hinting at, but may I impertinently ask (pm would be fine), did you find anything that *positively* identified him to be that particular person?  I've seen posts where Drsocks mentioned said person, and also ones where he used said person's name as his online identity..  But that still leaves the (slim) possibility that he is simply pointing readers AT that identity as part of his games.

So I'm wondering if anyone has directly contacted said person to get the confirmation, or verified it in some other way...?

Of course, if he ISN'T said person, then said person needs to be fully informed and take whatever action he sees fit..


Ummm.. did all that make any sense? :D
No all the folks I spoke to in SF used very "careful" language.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on September 17, 2012, 11:52:20 AM
Yes, that made sense. I googled the person in question and noticed something interesting. There were three or four pages of internet "yellow pages" listings, then practically nothing. No photo of him and his wife at the Opera's Black & White ball. No announcement that he had been named a trustee at his church. No angry letter to an editor about the rising cost of malpractice insurance. No speech at the rotary club. No daughter being named class valedictorian. No Facebook photo of him at a friend's wedding. Doctors lead carefully managed social lives; they are expected to be "pillars of the community." Outside of playing jazz in his brother's basement, the doctor in question appears to have no social life. ...
Did you see his Facebook page?  It was yanked down right around the time he ran his mouth too much about a fancy bicycle.

Insert here the usual disclaimers about not revealing his suspected real identity openly.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 17, 2012, 01:24:47 PM
Yes, that made sense. I googled the person in question and noticed something interesting. There were three or four pages of internet "yellow pages" listings, then practically nothing. No photo of him and his wife at the Opera's Black & White ball. No announcement that he had been named a trustee at his church. No angry letter to an editor about the rising cost of malpractice insurance. No speech at the rotary club. No daughter being named class valedictorian. No Facebook photo of him at a friend's wedding. Doctors lead carefully managed social lives; they are expected to be "pillars of the community." Outside of playing jazz in his brother's basement, the doctor in question appears to have no social life. ...
Did you see his Facebook page?  It was yanked down right around the time he ran his mouth too much about a fancy bicycle.

Insert here the usual disclaimers about not revealing his suspected real identity openly.
I still have that image. DocSocks carefully editted for anonymity, forgetting that the original was still out on the interwebs.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on September 17, 2012, 02:19:50 PM
Quote
Among the items that led me to believe our Dr Socks was he same as the California physician was a physician review web site where the one patient review was too complementary.  Not only of his skill, but of his person.

You mean "Tiny H?" What starts with H and rhymes with "tiny?" She also reviewed Ka Ka's Asian Noodle House. Oh, brother.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 17, 2012, 02:42:16 PM
Quote
Among the items that led me to believe our Dr Socks was he same as the California physician was a physician review web site where the one patient review was too complementary.  Not only of his skill, but of his person.

You mean "Tiny H?" What starts with H and rhymes with "tiny?" She also reviewed Ka Ka's Asian Noodle House. Oh, brother.
He has gone dark. I wonder if that is a result of the searchlight placed upon him?

ETA: Also, he has ceased his posting at JREF for now, and also has ceased his PM's to me. For now.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on September 17, 2012, 03:47:09 PM
He has gone dark. I wonder if that is a result of the searchlight placed upon him?

Or perhaps the result of a certified letter that has been or soon will be delivered to his address of record from a San Francisco law firm.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on September 17, 2012, 03:48:32 PM
I noticed he is using the sock "RobertStills" to argue with another one of his socks.  "Robert" is saying that Apollo 11 did land on the Moon. 

ETA: So he hasn't stopped completely; he's still ranting on the Economist web site in the comments sections for the Neil Armstrong obituary and the "Mitt Romney, Apollo, boondoggle" column.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on September 17, 2012, 05:06:11 PM
Quote
Among the items that led me to believe our Dr Socks was he same as the California physician was a physician review web site where the one patient review was too complementary.  Not only of his skill, but of his person.

You mean "Tiny H?" What starts with H and rhymes with "tiny?" She also reviewed Ka Ka's Asian Noodle House. Oh, brother.
That is the one.  I hadn't made the connection to the various "heiny" posters over at the Economist.  This certainly  is confirming evidence. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: slang on September 17, 2012, 06:44:13 PM
[...] various SF clinics.

I really like reading science fiction. I never figured it to be something I might get sent to clinic for.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: scooter on September 17, 2012, 10:53:33 PM
You folks are way ahead of me on this drama...

Long ago over at JREF, I thought I'd seen a link to a youTube video by Patrick1000, or did I just imagine that? To be honest, I couldn't stomach wading through that mess trying to find it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: carpediem on September 18, 2012, 12:23:11 AM
There are plenty on his YouTube channel
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: scooter on September 18, 2012, 11:59:49 AM
There are plenty on his YouTube channel

That's the one...thanks.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Drewid on September 18, 2012, 03:20:41 PM
I wonder, is he an actual physician, or did he buy a qualification, or is he a doctor of something unrelated, or focused in one small area?  Perhaps he's a proctologist, that might explain the obsessions.
Those medical errors bother me, surely even a doctor on the rocks wouldn't get the thing about Shepard's Meniere's wrong.   I suppose he could have been bluffing and hoping no one would pick him up on it, his ego would make him think that that would work.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on September 18, 2012, 04:23:37 PM
I wonder, is he an actual physician, or did he buy a qualification, or is he a doctor of something unrelated, or focused in one small area?  Perhaps he's a proctologist, that might explain the obsessions.
Those medical errors bother me, surely even a doctor on the rocks wouldn't get the thing about Shepard's Meniere's wrong.   I suppose he could have been bluffing and hoping no one would pick him up on it, his ego would make him think that that would work.

Yes, that's the crux of the problem. He knows nothing about medicine, its practice and its culture. He misuses words and lacks the critical thinking necessary to make even the simplest diagnoses. His language skills are abominable. If he ever did qualify as a physician, he must have undergone a massive head trauma to account for his current lack of skills.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Hal on September 18, 2012, 05:20:48 PM
While I've always been skeptical of his claims of being a medical professional, I would not find it difficult to believe he has spent a substantial portion of his life in medical facilities, of one sort or another.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on September 18, 2012, 09:55:19 PM
I cannot reconcile his posts with my conception of anyone competent enough to get through medical school, but what I have seen online leads me to believe that he is a real MD. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on September 18, 2012, 10:06:40 PM
I find this post at a University of Illinois at ask a physicist page (http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=17063) to be very similar to what we have seen from fattydash and his "compatriots."

Quote
I was browsing the Cornell University Astronomy web site and I read in an answer to a question posed by a school teacher that one should be able to see stars from the lunar surface when looking up into the moon's sky "day or night" as there is no atmosphere. This made sense to me. So then I got curious and went to see what stars the Apollo astronauts were indeed able to see as I suspected one could see stars all the better with no atmosphere. Well I must say I found myself so very surprised to hear Neil Armstrong tell Patrick Moore in a 1970 BBC interview that the only objects one can see from the moon's surface in the lunar sky are the the planet earth and the sun. Neil Armstrong said in that interview, "THE SKY IS A DEEP BLACK WHEN VIEWED FROM THE MOON, AS IT IS WHEN VIEWED FROM CIS-LUNAR SPACE, THE SPACE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON. THE EARTH IS THE ONLY VISIBLE OBJECT OTHER THAN THE SUN THAT CAN BE SEEN, ALTHOUGH THERE HAVE BEEN REPORTS OF SEEING PLANETS. I MYSELF DID NOT SEE PLANETS FROM THE SURFACE BUT I SUSPECT THEY MIGHT BE VISIBLE". So now I am very confused. The Cornell Astronomy Dept. people's answer to the teacher makes sense to me. But on the other hand, the Cornell astronomers have never been to the moon and maybe they are not as smart as they think they are. What is the correct "answer" if one could call it that? By the way, one can find the Neil Armstrong interview on You-Tube, just search "Neil Armstrong, BBC, 1970 interview, Patrick Moore". It is short and the stuff about not seeing stars is the first issue addressed. Thanks!!! Patrick Return to the form.
- Patrick Tekeli (age 53)
San Francisco, California, USA
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 18, 2012, 10:57:30 PM
I find this post at a University of Illinois at ask a physicist page (http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=17063) to be very similar to what we have seen from fattydash and his "compatriots."

Quote
I was browsing the Cornell University Astronomy web site and I read in an answer to a question posed by a school teacher that one should be able to see stars from the lunar surface when looking up into the moon's sky "day or night" as there is no atmosphere. This made sense to me. So then I got curious and went to see what stars the Apollo astronauts were indeed able to see as I suspected one could see stars all the better with no atmosphere. Well I must say I found myself so very surprised to hear Neil Armstrong tell Patrick Moore in a 1970 BBC interview that the only objects one can see from the moon's surface in the lunar sky are the the planet earth and the sun. Neil Armstrong said in that interview, "THE SKY IS A DEEP BLACK WHEN VIEWED FROM THE MOON, AS IT IS WHEN VIEWED FROM CIS-LUNAR SPACE, THE SPACE BETWEEN THE EARTH AND THE MOON. THE EARTH IS THE ONLY VISIBLE OBJECT OTHER THAN THE SUN THAT CAN BE SEEN, ALTHOUGH THERE HAVE BEEN REPORTS OF SEEING PLANETS. I MYSELF DID NOT SEE PLANETS FROM THE SURFACE BUT I SUSPECT THEY MIGHT BE VISIBLE". So now I am very confused. The Cornell Astronomy Dept. people's answer to the teacher makes sense to me. But on the other hand, the Cornell astronomers have never been to the moon and maybe they are not as smart as they think they are. What is the correct "answer" if one could call it that? By the way, one can find the Neil Armstrong interview on You-Tube, just search "Neil Armstrong, BBC, 1970 interview, Patrick Moore". It is short and the stuff about not seeing stars is the first issue addressed. Thanks!!! Patrick Return to the form.
- Patrick Tekeli (age 53)
San Francisco, California, USA
The Tiny H fanfic malarkey. Right.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 18, 2012, 11:00:24 PM
I cannot reconcile his posts with my conception of anyone competent enough to get through medical school, but what I have seen online leads me to believe that he is a real MD. 
Same here but he appears to be on "Garden leave".
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Grashtel on September 18, 2012, 11:23:43 PM
Same here but he appears to be on "Garden leave".
What does "Garden leave" mean?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: carpediem on September 19, 2012, 12:50:09 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_leave
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: carpediem on September 19, 2012, 12:53:58 AM
I find this post at a University of Illinois at ask a physicist page (http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=17063) to be very similar to what we have seen from fattydash and his "compatriots."

That URL doesn't refer to the University of Illinois ask a physicist page. It is the yelp review for a certain sock puppet liking MD many of us have become familiar with.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on September 19, 2012, 02:49:44 AM
I find this post at a University of Illinois at ask a physicist page (http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=17063) to be very similar to what we have seen from fattydash and his "compatriots."

That URL doesn't refer to the University of Illinois ask a physicist page. It is the yelp review for a certain sock puppet liking MD many of us have become familiar with.
I think this is the one (http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=17063) Echnaton meant to post.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on September 19, 2012, 06:39:25 AM
I find this post at a University of Illinois at ask a physicist page (http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=17063) to be very similar to what we have seen from fattydash and his "compatriots."

That URL doesn't refer to the University of Illinois ask a physicist page. It is the yelp review for a certain sock puppet liking MD many of us have become familiar with.
I think this is the one (http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=17063) Echnaton meant to post.
Yes, that is the intended link.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on September 19, 2012, 07:24:51 AM
Well, now that the possible identity seems to be out of the bag, may I also post this.  Note who posted it (his supposed real name) and yet it is signed off as "DoctorTea" (http://www.astronomy.net/forums/general/messages/4885.shtml), and it is very obviously from DrSocks.  Interestingly, his university seems to have changed from Vanderbilt to UC Berkeley...

And for some light 'entertainment' and a weirdly apt coincidence, try this little search game...

Use Google's VIDEO search to look up "San Francisco Serenade".
You'll get quite a few matches relating to "Bad Astronaut"..  ignore those as that is an Indie band, NOT another sockpuppet.  Cute coincidence, huh?

But now, look closely at the very next link after those (might want to turn the volume down if you follow it - it is not particularly sonorous..).

Anyone we know?  :D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on September 19, 2012, 07:54:54 AM
Anyone we know?  :D

He looks like a younger version of this guy (http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Heavens_Gate.aspx)

(http://por-img.cimcontent.net/api/assets/bin-201205/5a3e14f50fbed0cc5434d188ecf03384.jpg)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Kiwi on September 19, 2012, 10:03:35 AM
From the video link:


Quote
Excellent performance, lads, especially from two guys who have lived in Marin for parts of their lives.The guitar player especially has ties w/Marin. But all is forgiven, boys, nice song and Patrick has a very nice soft singing voice that is a joy to listen to.

If that guy is indeed Dr Socks, it's a pity his posts weren't an excellent performance and a joy to read.

For some reason, ever since seeing his early posts that mentioned his job, I always pictured him wearing blue overalls and tatty, brown-leather boots with the laces barely tied, carrying a bucket and mop, and, during the the occasional break, posting furiously at ApolloHoax from a large broom cupboard.  Dunno why!

He looks like a younger version of this guy

True. Also like the slightly eccentric Dr Brackish Okun (played by Brent Spiner) at Area 51 in "Independence Day."

He's the guy who says to the President, "...they don't let us out much," and then shows him the big tamale and "the freak show."  He meets a sticky end courtesy of one of the aliens but, unlike Dr Socks, could at least could admit, "You know, you're really starting to make us look bad."

See, I always felt that that movie was capable of making a useful point at ApolloHoax.  It just took a long time.  :)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Donnie B. on September 19, 2012, 04:36:25 PM
Hmmm... not a sextant in sight.

I'd started to develop a feeling that he was a MUCH older man, like past retirement age and getting a wee bit dotty.  That seems less likely now.

On the other hand, who do you suppose posted that favorable review?  Who could have done that?  Let me think, could it be...

...SATAN???
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 20, 2012, 07:17:31 AM
DoctorSocks is real, but as far as my investigation went, appears to have been put on enforced leave of some kind. Personally, I favour the "Doc on the Rocks" hypothesis, a breakdown of some sort. I backed off the investigation once mental illness became an aspect, but I could rekindle my contact with various SF clinics.
Interesting - sounds very plasuible from what I've uncovered.  I know who you are hinting at, but may I impertinently ask (pm would be fine), did you find anything that *positively* identified him to be that particular person?  I've seen posts where Drsocks mentioned said person, and also ones where he used said person's name as his online identity..  But that still leaves the (slim) possibility that he is simply pointing readers AT that identity as part of his games.

So I'm wondering if anyone has directly contacted said person to get the confirmation, or verified it in some other way...?

Of course, if he ISN'T said person, then said person needs to be fully informed and take whatever action he sees fit..


Ummm.. did all that make any sense? :D
I rang two places and got the runaround from HR to Legal. All I did was ask for him by name.
Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Sus_pilot on September 20, 2012, 08:55:49 AM
I've been lurking here and on the old site for over a year, mainly because its an opportunity to learn about Apollo's history. 

I've also become fascinated with whatever motivates DrSocks, et al.  I've traded posts with him over at JREF, mainly motivated by the fact that the space program was a big part of my growing up, as well as having had the honor of meeting a couple of the Apollo astronauts (I will forever regret that I blew an opportunity to meet Neil Armstrong).  The denial of Apollo's achievements simply offends me, which is why I got involved.

It amazes me that someone would work so hard to deny and display such anger towards a historical fact.  I do have a degree in pshrinkology, but I am in no way competent to understand this type of pathology.  It all reminds me of a favorite quote from Herbert Tarr's "The Conversion of Chaplain Cohen":

"Do you know the difference between a psychotic and a neurotic?  A psychotic this two plus two is five.  A neurotic knows that took plus two is four.  And absolutely hates it!"

So, does anyone have a thought as to what motivates him? 

Shame of it all is, if it's who Abbadon thinks it is, he picks a mean banjo...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on September 20, 2012, 09:12:43 AM
In case anyone thinks all this may be a little unfair..

For anyone not familiar with Patrick-of-1000-names' antics, I'd like to offer a few examples of the type of vitriolic and abusive postings he has made - many targeting some very public figures while hiding behind his sockpuppetry.  For example his postings at The Economist (http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/08/obituary) where he not only lambasted and denigrated the now deceased Neil Armstrong, but also made the hideously stupid mistake of impersonating a rather well known Apollo historian :D...  Then there are all the other incredibly insulting posts aimed at astronauts, their wives, any Apollo supporter/historian/contributor or indeed anyone who disagreed with him or pointed out his innumerable errors.  He also disgracefully lampooned the genuinely disabled by his insulting character impersonations - eg 'dastardly' and 'decisively'.

Probably the worst examples can be found at AboveTopSecret, when Patrick/Fattydash/DoctorTea/MaryB/HighGain/BFischer/BSpassky/dastardly/decisively was posting there (- he is now banned).  He started out posting in the same 'dastardly' mode (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread835747/pg1#pid14019214) he used at BAUTforum - posing as an intellectually-disabled sextant-loving youth and posting stuff like this:
Quote
sorry my writing is not so good it is a little problem i have but my reading is excellent and my ideas are always very good... my sister says she will help me sometimes answer your posts because her writing is good...
when it comes to the sextant issue i claim to be an expert.. even winning prizes for my star sighting...         
sorry but apollo is fony and i feel bad especially for Ar..ng living with that huge lie and being in so much torment his whole life he should cop to it and will have some peace when he dies...
now this is not my idea either i think it is patricks ...

But then his persona (without explanation) fairly quickly morphed into firstly a loud-/foul-mouthed Tourette's sufferer, and then as a medical professional - one clearly without a clue.

Here's a couple of examples of the disgusting stuff that he posted:
From here (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread835747/pg2#pid14031871):
Quote
..how do you think ar...ngs grandchildren will feel when this oozes out of the planet's fanny in a year or two or 5 ?
..buzz a...n is a first rate yo yo clown bozo twit for thinking we are that dumb to fall for this
..IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH WHAT I THINK OF YOUR PANTY WAIST HERO
..NEIL A... IS A FAKE CLOWN CHARLATAN
..what is the ditz' s name that runs BAUT ? Phil Pl..t? why don't you trot him out here...
..I will clean Pl..t's ever loving clock
..bet you we could sue lo..ll for that and take away all his wife's money for having her hideous beehive hairdos done
..going to try and get me kicked off here for saying i think we should cut off the cash flow to lo..ll's skanky wife since we are paying that ditz lo..ll's pension for not flying to the moon ?
From here (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread835747/pg2#pid14032275) and here (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread835747/pg2#pid14032316):
Quote
..we shouldn't be using taxpayer money to pay their hubbies pensions so the skanks can fix their hair jowls and wrinkles specially 'cuz their boys got microscopic sized boogers for gonads and wouldn't know how to fly a space ship if their mommy bought 'em a pretend one
..maybe we can collect all of the itsy bitsy booger gonads of the fony apollo astronauts and put 'em on display in the Smithsonian
..say hello to booger gonad Phil Pl..t for me
..but the guy, BOOGER GONADS, ar..ng, he is a first rate pathetic clown, sad sad sad clown like Pagliacci

Then, from here (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread847051/pg7#pid14407292):
Quote
No matter "where" I post, I mop cislunar space with the lying heinies of the PERPS
James Lo..ll lies his jive heiny tax payer rip off artist rump off when he says that everyone knew it was oxygen leaking 15 minutes into the phony Apollo 13 scam...
They know that whether before or after the day they die, no matter, the public will indeed learn and acknowledge within a generation's time, or perhaps much sooner, that they are slime wad duffus punk heiny chump twits, and not the patriots they have always pretended to be...

Any questions?  I have just one - what sort of person would post that sort of scum?  You'll also notice that Patrick seems to have certain recurring themes/obsessions (I'll spare you the diarrhea quotes) - this sort of stuff just went ON and ON...  Check the links and see for yourselves.

And then, later (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread847051/pg8#pid14483572) as he turns into the 'respected' doctor, he posts:
Quote
I am young and fit. I am 54 years old. I am able to swim 1000 yards of butterfly without a pause.
Pretty much matches the profile, and take a close look at the t-shirt being worn on this page (https://sites.google.com/site/tekelibrosmymeestermusic/Home/tekelibros-com)...


So if anyone feels pity..  Imo, Patrick, you deserve everything you are getting and far more.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on September 20, 2012, 10:30:52 AM
So, does anyone have a thought as to what motivates him? 

Welcome to the forum Sus_pilot.

I've plenty of ideas about what motivates him.  But my experience about guessing at peoples motivations has led to the belief that such guesses reveal more about the guesser than the subject.  I try not to speculate on the nature of others mental health, but sometimes stilll do out of frustration.  Human motivations are quite complex and it is hard enough to pinpoint our own motivations, much less those of someone whose behaviors, like DrSocks, in which we can find so little in common with our own actions. 
Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Sus_pilot on September 20, 2012, 10:36:34 AM
Thanks. I think you've captured well why I haven't made my own guesses, yet remain fascinated.  Yet, I do want to comprehend, if not at a visceral level, at an intellectual one, but it's so far from my frame of reference...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on September 20, 2012, 11:01:37 AM
On the other hand, who do you suppose posted that favorable review?  Who could have done that?  Let me think, could it be...

...SATAN???

Now do a little "Superior Dance"...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 20, 2012, 01:16:27 PM
To speculate off the top of my head, I suggest going back to the book The Right Stuff, and realize that it's less about the space program and more about the male psyche. How everyone wants to be the one who has The Right Stuff - to be the best of the best.

Patrick clearly wants to be seen as someone with the right stuff. He brags about everything he's involved in - from his knowledge of medicine, to his sextant abilities, to his research skills, to his bicycle-building prowess. Heck, the UN is supposed to hire him to make their prose less straightforward. But he can't claim to be the best astronaut, or even one to begin with. This seems to offend him deeply , and he is determined to take those who really are astronauts down, or fight to the last sock trying.

It also explains his obsession with Jay - if Jay is the Chuck Yeager of debunkers, Patrick wants to challenge him, not the lesser people in the squadron.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Drewid on September 20, 2012, 04:52:09 PM
I rang two places and got the runaround from HR to Legal. All I did was ask for him by name.

Now that is interesting.   
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on September 21, 2012, 02:55:29 PM
And "Peter May" returns to JREF after his fringe reset.  Predictably he fails to answer the pending questions and just copypastes more spewage from elsewhere.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 21, 2012, 03:44:38 PM
Did Patrick really, in his "dastardly" near-illiterate persona, suddenly start referencing Pagliacci?  :o Way to lose track of your character.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on September 21, 2012, 06:01:14 PM
And "Peter May" returns to JREF after his fringe reset.  Predictably he fails to answer the pending questions and just copypastes more spewage from elsewhere.

And into the Ignore File he goes, after his latest dodge-and-insult.  Obviously Patrick.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on September 21, 2012, 07:10:38 PM
Did Patrick really, in his "dastardly" near-illiterate persona, suddenly start referencing Pagliacci?  :o Way to lose track of your character.
Hardly surprising, given the number of socks he needed to get the support he desperately craved..!
But I will say that the line about Pagliacci was *after* I outed him, and he seemed a little unhappy about that.. :D  He did stay in his dastardly-like persona for a few more posts, but then morphed into Patrick..  It's from this thread, which may be worth a read if you are willing to risk a visit to AboveTopSecret, and want to see Patrick in all his moods and at his very worst:
ATS - Bart Sibrel Has Been Discovered To Be An Apollo Program Fraud Perpetrator (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread835747/pg1)
Note that it is an 8 page thread - I outed him on page 2.

His very first post on that thread included:
Quote
..you can do this yourself because i did with my two best friends timmy and charlie we bought the video from amazon...
..it is 100% TotallyStokedDudes idea that i cannot take credit for...
..this is all of those things that when me and charlie did this for the first time together and proved...
..sorry my writing is not so good it is a little problem i have but my reading is excellent and my ideas are always very good...
He was very obviously wearing his dastardly sock.  Yet his very last post before being banned included:
Quote
..So my current view is that it is not inconceivable that the PERPS ...
..I am all over this one...
..Needs lots of study , but an insanely promising little approach...
..Let's bring Neil and Buzz and Mike Apollo down by showing Bart to be a Heiny Jive PERP...
So he was then clearly admitting to being the author of the videos (TotallyStokedDude) and was fully into his Doctor Tourette persona..

After the banning, he returned under several new names, but the moderators were on to him pretty quickly (unusual, as ATS tends to strongly support CT's over debunkers..) and he seems to have ended his run there.

FTR, I no longer post much at ATS - only when something like this arises..
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on September 22, 2012, 08:45:09 AM
And "Peter May" returns to JREF after his fringe reset.  Predictably he fails to answer the pending questions and just copypastes more spewage from elsewhere.

And into the Ignore File he goes, after his latest dodge-and-insult.  Obviously Patrick.
But not doing a bad imitation of an angry English truck driver.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on September 22, 2012, 01:01:28 PM
Yeah, I'm convinced.

But what I don't know is what game he is playing this time?

Has he decided that he's getting no traction playing the "I know a good wine" guy as a hoax believer, and thinks that perhaps he will get the adulation he is due if he switches teams?

Or does he think he is up for the long game, where he will pretend to be a committed Apollo "Believer" and, slowly and regretfully, be unable to support his beliefs against the growing weight of evidence against it, and be "Shocked, shocked" and sorrowful to learn it is actually a hoax?

I don't know, but I'm about forty magnitudes below the level of giving a hoot.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: slang on September 22, 2012, 07:02:47 PM
Has he decided that he's getting no traction playing the "I know a good wine" guy as a hoax believer, and thinks that perhaps he will get the adulation he is due if he switches teams?

Oh, he's pretending to be an Apollo believer somewhere else now too? Tried it at CQ, didn't work. I don't think any of the posts went through.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on September 22, 2012, 10:23:21 PM
Has he decided that he's getting no traction playing the "I know a good wine" guy as a hoax believer, and thinks that perhaps he will get the adulation he is due if he switches teams?

Oh, he's pretending to be an Apollo believer somewhere else now too? Tried it at CQ, didn't work. I don't think any of the posts went through.
Yeah, he appears to be doing it at JREF as "Peter May", an ex-pat Brit living in Sweden.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on September 23, 2012, 04:21:12 AM
This Patrick 1000 name character sounds like a real Fruit Loop. I think there is enough material there for a whole psychiatry seminar, on his own.

I'll bet he pops up on lots of other conspiracy forums such as 9/11, JFK, Roswell and Area 51
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Nowhere Man on September 23, 2012, 10:37:04 AM
Quote
"There's enough material there for an entire conference."
Dr. Abbot, the title character of "The Psychiatrist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Psychiatrist)" episode of Fawlty Towers, speaking of Basil Fawlty.

Fred
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ApolloGnomon on September 26, 2012, 02:34:28 AM
But not doing a bad imitation of an angry English truck driver.

Oh, yeah, speaking of old friends!

(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b305/margamatix/TruckphotosMolly047_zps9a51088d.jpg)

Wonder what he's up to these days?

{edit to add}

Right click to get image information. He left big enough footprints on the internet several years ago, I don't feel any need to put to use his username in googlebot-searchable space.

For newer users: This guy was a member of the old forum about 6 or 8 years ago (THAT long? cripes!) with a pattern of increasing irritability until banned. Then he came back several times in various "character actor" roles, such as the English ex-pat scuba instructor living somewhere in the South Pacific. He demonstrated very typical addictive/obsessive behavior characteristics. He would wander in after an absence, seem to be having fun, and then gradually become more and more obnoxious until banned. (attraction/revulsion cycle)

I burned a username here and left to pursue him about cyberspace for about 6 months. I found pictures of his car keys, his car, his work truck, his 3rd and 4th grade school class pictures, the view of his cul-de-sac from his upstairs bedroom, usernames on several other fora and his ebay and photobucket pages. I made a spreadsheet to track the posting times on the various fora (correcting for time zones) and was able to track when he was on the road and when he came home from a long run. Sometimes he would come here when he was home, and would spend unbelievable amounts of continuous time posting, becoming increasingly belligerent until banned.

We refer to him as "the Angry English Truck Driver" because it's accurate. His posts here and elsewhere displayed racism, sexism, and generally obnoxious behavior. He was banned from "419 Eater," a forum for people who bait and hassle Nigerian scammers. He was also a moderator at a trucking forum but got banned, as a mod.

We use the term "Angry English Truck Driver" to refer his suspected puppets, and more broadly to posters who resemble him -- exceptionally belligerent, increasingly rude and obviously "character actor" sock puppets of previously banned members.

I went through the old forum's username list once and came up with a very long list of his probable puppets -- usernames registered within a window of time with zero or 1 posts, many partially matching previously used names here or elsewhere. Some of them came into play later and were banned.

Unlike P1K the AETD limited himself to a narrow palette of name styles.

I got him to post me this "419 style" pic:

(http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ApolloGnomon/notbart.jpg)

The sign says "I am not Bart Sibrel."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on September 28, 2012, 06:25:01 AM
Meanwhile over at the Economist, DrSocks has added the following:

DJW002
ChrLsZ
ka9p
Echnatonnn
twek

http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/08/obituary (http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/08/obituary)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on September 28, 2012, 07:50:50 AM
I feel so...."honored"....to have been parodied by the good Dr.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on September 28, 2012, 09:15:29 AM
Spends a lot of time creating multiple personalities for the purpose of talking to himself doesn't he?

There a name for this... paranoid schizophrenia? 

He's obviously stopped taking is anti-psychotic meds again!!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on September 28, 2012, 01:26:19 PM
I feel kind of left out . . . .

And, no, this doesn't look to me like paranoid schizophrenia.  For one, I've yet to see evidence of paranoia.  He doesn't think we're all out to get him, even though all we've really been doing around here for days is talking about him.  He does not, so far as I can tell, think NASA's out to get him.  Or aliens.  Or anyone else.  And with no paranoia, no paranoid schizophrenia.

This doesn't even look like not-paranoid schizophrenia.  Contrary to popular belief, schizophrenia and split personalities are not the same thing.  While I'll concede the delusions of grandeur, nothing else I've seen really seems like schizophrenic behaviour to me.  The delusions of grandeur seem to be about the only delusions--well, maybe other than the delusion that he's fooling anyone with this.  Schizophrenia is not as uncommon a diagnosis among conspiracy theorists as it is among the general population, I think, but that's not what's going on here.  If he has an illness, it's one of the more obscure ones.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on September 28, 2012, 02:13:17 PM
It would be fascinating to have coffee with him and see the obsession with the moon hoax in person.  Assuming I could control myself.  My laughter, I mean.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on September 28, 2012, 04:08:01 PM
I feel kind of left out . . . .

And, no, this doesn't look to me like paranoid schizophrenia.  For one, I've yet to see evidence of paranoia.  He doesn't think we're all out to get him, even though all we've really been doing around here for days is talking about him.  He does not, so far as I can tell, think NASA's out to get him.  Or aliens.  Or anyone else.  And with no paranoia, no paranoid schizophrenia.

This doesn't even look like not-paranoid schizophrenia.  Contrary to popular belief, schizophrenia and split personalities are not the same thing.  While I'll concede the delusions of grandeur, nothing else I've seen really seems like schizophrenic behaviour to me.  The delusions of grandeur seem to be about the only delusions--well, maybe other than the delusion that he's fooling anyone with this.  Schizophrenia is not as uncommon a diagnosis among conspiracy theorists as it is among the general population, I think, but that's not what's going on here.  If he has an illness, it's one of the more obscure ones.

He sits at a computer (for long periods of time?) and creates multiple user names in the same forums (in the wider sense of the word), said user names sometimes being parodies of the user names of other posters who post in similar forums but with opinions that are the polar opposite of his.

Now that might not technically be MPD or schizophrenia, but it sure isn't something that normal, sane, mentally healthy people do.

Perhaps he's OCD?

It would be fascinating to have coffee with him and see the obsession with the moon hoax in person.  Assuming I could control myself.  My laughter, I mean.


I have actually met one of these people in person. I have one who comes into my shop from time to time, to transfer VHS tapes to DVD. Its all conspiracy theory stuff - Apollo Hoax, 9/11, Illuminati, Freemasonry, JFK, Roswell UFO, Reptoids, Skull & Bones etc, etc. He seems perfectly normal... until, that is, you start talking to him at length. While he doesn't appear to think the whole world is out to get him personally, he does think there are powerful people out to subjugate ordinary people (who he calls "sheeple").

IMO, he is a harmless nut-job, but there are other versions of him out there, the ones that get together in militia groups and arm themselves to the teeth... they are anything but harmless.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 28, 2012, 04:15:37 PM
I feel so...."honored"....to have been parodied by the good Dr.

So am I.

On another tangent, as regards medical diagnoses, there are a lot of odd behaviours that don't really have a clinical name. They're just odd. Patrick's may just be "trying to prove a point no matter what"ism.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on September 28, 2012, 04:27:21 PM
He sits at a computer (for long periods of time?) and creates multiple user names in the same forums (in the wider sense of the word), said user names sometimes being parodies of the user names of other posters who post in similar forums but with opinions that are the polar opposite of his.

Now that might not technically be MPD or schizophrenia, but it sure isn't something that normal, sane, mentally healthy people do.

Dissociative identity disorder is what we're calling it now--assuming it exists, which we shouldn't.  However, the important aspect is "makes up."  He doesn't dissociate.  ("Normal," "sane," and "mentally healthy" are three different things, you know!)  He is aware of his own behaviour, so far as I can tell.  He denies it, but the game doesn't work if he doesn't.

Quote
Perhaps he's OCD?

Almost certainly not.  Maybe--maybe--histrionic personality disorder.  However, I don't know enough about him to be sure of a diagnosis, even if I were qualified to diagnose.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on September 28, 2012, 05:31:33 PM
Dissociative identity disorder is what we're calling it now--assuming it exists, which we shouldn't.  However, the important aspect is "makes up."  He doesn't dissociate.

Agreed, and the difference is important.  Making up sock puppets is simply performance art:  no different than the characters I play in my theater avatar photos.  I arrive at the theater, adopt the character, play the part, then set the character aside and take a bow.  The character is a conscious alteration of my manifest behavior.  How many times on stage have I performed the rehearsed behavior convincingly, while my mind is saying consciously "I wish I were home watching Mythbusters right now."  The real me is still there.  The real Patrick is still there, while putting his antic disposition on.  Similarly I also believe Patrick is aware of his own behavior.

Dissociative disorders involve a more substantial detachment from emotional or perceptual reality, and a more immersive entrance into the alternate perception or identity.  Hence conscious banter among the the episodes or contexts is unusual.  In the mildest case, we may suddenly realize, for example, that we have been daydreaming, but we also realize in retrospect that our normal thoughts were naturally suspended during the daydream.  That's mild (i.e., insignificant) dissociation.  Clinically significant dissociation involves that detachment on a deeper level.

Quote
However, I don't know enough about him to be sure of a diagnosis, even if I were qualified to diagnose.

Indeed, nor is a diagnosis useful if one has elected simply to ignore him from now on.  I venture his problem is more social than psychological.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on September 28, 2012, 05:46:52 PM
Absolutely.  He's been banned from both of the boards I frequent, and he isn't interesting enough for me to chase him around the internet.  Ergo, assuming he plays by the rules (though why should he start now?), he simply does not matter to me.  Assuming, that is, I am never in need of medical care in San Francisco, which seems unlikely anyway.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on September 28, 2012, 08:04:36 PM
I think he's just a run of the mill general idiot.  Assigning possible personality disorders to him just gives him an excuse.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on September 29, 2012, 04:49:29 AM
AFAIK none of us are doctors specialising in mental health - and even if anyone is I still think it is inappropriate to attempt to diagnose someone over the internet, especially as they aren't here.

He is very difficult and his behaviour is worrying, but let's not go down that road, please.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on September 29, 2012, 01:31:58 PM
It's really very frustrating to me.  I've been told both that it is trivially easy to diagnose over the internet without training and that the same person would not have known that I was mentally ill if I didn't say something.  There is this pervasive belief that there is something diagnosably wrong with every conspiracist, and I do not believe that to be the case.  Even the more unusual ones do not always have something diagnosably wrong--leaving aside that severe conspiracism is its own diagnosis these days!  There is a whole wide range of unusual behaviour that is not any kind of mental illness, and it's harder for those of us who are to get taken seriously when everyone wants to lump us in with people who just doggedly hold screwy ideas.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on October 01, 2012, 10:46:46 AM
Dr Socks has found the cesspool of GLP
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2004879/pg1
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1790701/pg129

Seems like a place he blongs.  Any chance we can lock him in there and throw away the key?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 01, 2012, 12:50:25 PM
And he is still double posting.  I wonder how long it will take GLP to get tired of his rants about loose stools and ban him.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on October 01, 2012, 02:51:18 PM
It's really very frustrating to me.  I've been told both that it is trivially easy to diagnose over the internet without training and that the same person would not have known that I was mentally ill if I didn't say something.

Diagnosis without training is just idle speculation, even though the average person with ordinary intelligence can see superficial parallels in someone's behavior and what he reads in DSM.  An actual diagnosis is neither within our expertise here nor necessary to address the claims.

Even we practitioners of "hard" sciences who mock the often fluid science of psychology, after seeing the mental health diagnostic procedures at work, realize that a psychiatrist or psychologist would no more diagnose a patient without the battery of standardized tests and interviews than we would modify a structural design without looking at the strain gauges and LS-DYNA output.  That said, I've had a bit of experience -- enough to know that those who have diagnosable illnesses won't necessarily seem that way.  Ironically, I've observed that people I know who were later diagnosed and treated for paranoid schizophrenia (yeah, one of the "biggies") seemed quite coherent and believable when they talked about their perceptions.  This is what you get when someone legitimately detaches from reality and speaks from what he or she truly believes.

Quote
There is this pervasive belief that there is something diagnosably wrong with every conspiracist, and I do not believe that to be the case.

Nor do I.  I think some are just out to have a lark.  Note how Patrick backed away from his impersonation after I warned him he may be in violation of California law and that I intended to do something about it.  His behavior is consistent not with someone who is somehow compelled or constrained to behave that way by some infirmity, but rather with someone who is consciously walking as close to the line of impropriety as possible, and has to occasionally step back into safe territory.

I guarantee every person you've ever met exhibits something that the DSM could get its teeth into.  The question is not whether people exhibit a variety of observable, categorizable, and (if necessary) diagnosable behavior.  The question is whether anything needs to be done.

Quote
...it's harder for those of us who are to get taken seriously when everyone wants to lump us in with people who just doggedly hold screwy ideas.

I'm sorry this affects you that way.  As in the rest of life, apparently the people who need help and attention are often drowned out by clowns.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on October 01, 2012, 03:03:57 PM
Diagnosis without training is just idle speculation, even though the average person with ordinary intelligence can see superficial parallels in someone's behavior and what he reads in DSM.  An actual diagnosis is neither within our expertise here nor necessary to address the claims.

Quite.  And, indeed, if we are wrong, we can get into our own legal trouble.

Quote
Even we practitioners of "hard" sciences who mock the often fluid science of psychology, after seeing the mental health diagnostic procedures at work, realize that a psychiatrist or psychologist would no more diagnose a patient without the battery of standardized tests and interviews than we would modify a structural design without looking at the strain gauges and LS-DYNA output.  That said, I've had a bit of experience -- enough to know that those who have diagnosable illnesses won't necessarily seem that way.  Ironically, I've observed that people I know who were later diagnosed and treated for paranoid schizophrenia (yeah, one of the "biggies") seemed quite coherent and believable when they talked about their perceptions.  This is what you get when someone legitimately detaches from reality and speaks from what he or she truly believes.

Delusions are a terrifying thing.  I have a dear friend whom I believe to have had a couple of psychotic breaks, and both times, there was delusion involved.  The agonizing thing is how hard it is proving to get him the help he so desperately needs.

Quote
Nor do I.  I think some are just out to have a lark.  Note how Patrick backed away from his impersonation after I warned him he may be in violation of California law and that I intended to do something about it.  His behavior is consistent not with someone who is somehow compelled or constrained to behave that way by some infirmity, but rather with someone who is consciously walking as close to the line of impropriety as possible, and has to occasionally step back into safe territory.

Yeah, no matter what else you can say about him, it's obvious that he knows exactly what he's doing.  This is funny to him.  I think we can agree that he's a jerk, but if that were a mental health problem, the system would be even more overloaded than it already is.

Quote
I guarantee every person you've ever met exhibits something that the DSM could get its teeth into.  The question is not whether people exhibit a variety of observable, categorizable, and (if necessary) diagnosable behavior.  The question is whether anything needs to be done.

Graham is taking abnormal psych this quarter (as a favour to me, of course!), and the warning everyone has given him is that it leaves people prone to self-diagnosis.  This is because, except for hallucinations and similar, the vast majority of mental illness is what I've taken to referring to as "normal behaviour turned up to eleven."  Everyone is sad for no reason sometimes; when it becomes clinical is when it starts having a negative impact on the rest of your life.  Everyone has irrational mood swings sometimes.  And, yes, everyone believes at least one or two things without evidence.  It's all part of the human condition until it starts being a serious problem.

Quote
I'm sorry this affects you that way.  As in the rest of life, apparently the people who need help and attention are often drowned out by clowns.

All too often, yes.  I do feel sorry for some of the conspiracists; I do believe that some of them aren't getting the help they actually need.  However, that is not true of all of them.  Some of them just need to be put in their place--and some legitimately can be educated.  And some know exactly what they're doing and are in it for some ulterior motive, like fun at others' expense or a buck.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on October 01, 2012, 05:26:04 PM
While I agree that "clinical" diagnosis of a mental health condition by unqualified people through observation of the "patient's" interactions with others via  the internet is completely unscientific, that does not preclude anyone from expressing an opinion regarding the behaviour of that person, especially when that behaviour falls outside what THEY consider to be normal.

When a person becomes so obsessed with expounding a theory (conspiracy or otherwise) that they are prepared to create multiple user-names (including names that are intended to impersonate users who hold opposing viewpoints to their own) on any given forum, and to post as the various personalities in such a way that they agree with each other, and then to repeat that behaviour over a number  of forums, then I feel quite within my rights to judge that behaviour as abnormal, and to express that judgement as an opinion.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on October 01, 2012, 05:32:19 PM
But that's all you really know about him.  It could be that messing with people on the internet is just his hobby, and that he's chosen Apollo conspiracism as his genre.  You don't have much of a way of knowing what he does with the rest of his time or how much time this takes up.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on October 01, 2012, 06:26:58 PM
This is because, except for hallucinations and similar, the vast majority of mental illness is what I've taken to referring to as "normal behaviour turned up to eleven."
I think this is very true -- and I wouldn't even exclude hallucinations as they happen to every one of us every night when we dream. Hypnagogic hallucinations (seemingly real ones that happen as you're waking up or falling asleep) are extremely common and normal. An especially common half-asleep hallucination is to hear someone call my name when no one was there. The "sound" has a weird, dreamy feel to it. I wonder if this is what schizophrenics who "hear voices" experience all the time when they're wide awake.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 01, 2012, 06:46:40 PM
The problem I find with judging people to be "abnormal" is that it tends to end the discussion or train of thought.  It also seriously damages our ability to understand someone or to find common ground in a discussion.   These two traits are among the best techniques we have in presenting our case so the scientifically illiterate fence sitter will understand that we are not just know-it-all blowhards. It is OK to describe behavior and characterize arguments, but we should refrain from judging people we know only from posts on the Internet. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on October 01, 2012, 08:04:09 PM
In terms of participating in a debate, I believe the only really viable and defensible response presumes the proponent intended to make a rational argument.  Assume that your layman's judgment will naturally and wrongly conflate the symptoms of mental illness with symptoms of simple illogic or misbehavior, and that it's more likely to be one of the latter.  Your private views of the proponent's mental state obviously determine whether you desire to continue the debate.  But accusations of mental illness should not be part of the debate.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on October 02, 2012, 02:20:57 AM
Hrm.  I agree with Jay (how could I not!) but at the risk of diffusing the point, I also always go into a debate on the assumption that the other person intends to make a rational argument.  I also, often, continue to treat it as if it was seriously intended as a rational argument long after it has become clear that they are only interested in scoring points, unable to form a coherent argument, and lying through their teeth most of the time as well.

But there is that caveat!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on October 04, 2012, 10:18:38 AM
Meanwhile over at the Economist, DrSocks has added the following:

DJW002
ChrLsZ
ka9p
Echnatonnn
twek

http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/08/obituary (http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/08/obituary)

And it continues at that site - Gillian, you need no longer feel left out - you have been added to the impersonations by Patrick Tekeli, who is now 'gillianran' and 'yesmuse' at the apparently completely-unmoderated Economist.

I might politely and tactfully contact his brother/family - I'm concerned at where this may end...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on October 04, 2012, 12:55:04 PM
Well, that's better!

But seriously, is he impressing or amusing anyone with that shtick?  Okay, he's kind of amusing us, but in the sense that we think it's pathetic.  I'd wager that hardly anyone in his audience even gets what he's doing, and no one would be impressed by it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 04, 2012, 02:19:27 PM
This reminds me of Hunter S. Thompson.  "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."  DrSocks has turned pro. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on October 04, 2012, 05:24:30 PM
The only thing that really worried me was the multiple identities. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of a sock puppet binge.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on October 05, 2012, 08:45:32 AM
Lucky you Gillian! I guess I haven't busted his chops enough to rate a sock impersonation. Boo hoo, but I'll get over it 8)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 05, 2012, 08:50:27 AM
You could always go over the the Economists and have a go at him.  Wouldn't that be fun?  :P
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on October 05, 2012, 02:21:50 PM
Maybe it took him so long because I'm not one of the scientists.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on October 05, 2012, 07:26:01 PM
Nomuse (and others inc Gillian and Jay), I think you are very correct in your reading of the 'signs' that are of concern.

At the Economist, I invited PT to contact me via my real email (which is not hard to find/guess).  Perhaps not entirely unsurprisingly, he has done so.  The lengthy tomes :D I have received are relatively polite, but also either directly or indirectly verify many (in fact.. pretty much all) of the suspicions I had about the situation.  I have not done much in the way of responding while I wait for him to answer a couple of questions *honestly* to ensure his 'good faith' (if such a thing is even remotely possible given the circumstances).

At the moment I will leave it at that and watch what unfolds...

What a strange place is this 'Interweb' thing, and what strange denizens populate it (mineself included).
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on October 05, 2012, 08:45:40 PM
He certainly has been productive.  Two new puppets at the JREF, copy-and-paste content at a newly registered ID at Godlike (and and unknown number of supporting socks.)

You'd think with all the work creating cover stories and working his ISP annonomizer, he'd invest in something that hides his distinctive voice.  There's a company I had sporadic contact with that runs a text-based online multiplayer game.  They were messing around with Markov chains to make their NPCs more interesting (and doing some clever stuff so when two players didn't share a language, they'd each see convincing -- and consistent! -- gibberish.)

His latest at the JREF was obvious before the first paragraph ended.


In other news, IDW still pops his head up at Godlike, but he hasn't said anything new in years.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on October 06, 2012, 04:05:41 AM
You could always go over the the Economists and have a go at him.  Wouldn't that be fun?  :P
Naaa, that's okay, I see enough of him at JREF! :D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on October 06, 2012, 08:32:23 PM
In other news, IDW still pops his head up at Godlike, but he hasn't said anything new in years.


Is he this guy that is currently posting as "RelentlesslyClever" and spends most of his time talking about poop?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on October 06, 2012, 08:50:59 PM
Quote
Is he this guy that is currently posting as "RelentlesslyClever" and spends most of his time talking about poop?
Yep.  It's his obsessi speciality..
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on October 06, 2012, 10:11:52 PM
In other news, IDW still pops his head up at Godlike, but he hasn't said anything new in years.


Is he this guy that is currently posting as "RelentlesslyClever" and spends most of his time talking about poop?

No.  Relentlessly Clever is Patrick aka Dr Socks.  IDW was on at least one of those threads but he doesn't usually log in as he is usually banned on site.

Edit to add:
IDW posted on this thread
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2006507/pg1
as "Anonymous Astrophysicist" with ID number 1400413
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on October 07, 2012, 01:04:08 AM
To back up a step, one stumbling block when it comes to diagnosing mental illness in an individual on the basis of their stated beliefs is determining cause-and-effect.

An individual with a diagnosable mental illness may well exhibit irrational beliefs because of the illness, but holding irrational beliefs is not in itself a sign of mental illness.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on October 07, 2012, 02:07:46 AM
Oops. sorry, didn't read the post being replied to..  And yes, it's Patrick - he's admitted it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on October 18, 2012, 07:06:55 PM
In other news, IDW still pops his head up at Godlike, but he hasn't said anything new in years.


Is he this guy that is currently posting as "RelentlesslyClever" and spends most of his time talking about poop?

No.  Relentlessly Clever is Patrick aka Dr Socks.  IDW was on at least one of those threads but he doesn't usually log in as he is usually banned on site.

Edit to add:
IDW posted on this thread
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2006507/pg1
as "Anonymous Astrophysicist" with ID number 1400413



It looks like Patrick will fit in well on GLP.  He's got himself a paid membership so he can moderate (silence his critics) his own threads
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 18, 2012, 07:19:33 PM
He can post on GLP for his own amusement until his heart's content.  The photo for his Doctor Tee avatar looks very much like photos of a certain San Francisco physician, seen elsewhere on the web. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on October 18, 2012, 07:53:25 PM
He can post on GLP for his own amusement until his heart's content.  The photo for his Doctor Tee avatar looks very much like photos of a certain San Francisco physician, seen elsewhere on the web. 

And what a professional looking photo it is too!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on October 19, 2012, 07:23:26 PM
In other news, IDW still pops his head up at Godlike, but he hasn't said anything new in years.


Is he this guy that is currently posting as "RelentlesslyClever" and spends most of his time talking about poop?

No.  Relentlessly Clever is Patrick aka Dr Socks.  IDW was on at least one of those threads but he doesn't usually log in as he is usually banned on site.

Edit to add:
IDW posted on this thread
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2006507/pg1
as "Anonymous Astrophysicist" with ID number 1400413



It looks like Patrick will fit in well on GLP.  He's got himself a paid membership so he can moderate (silence his critics) his own threads

And been making good use of it.  I haven't bothered trying to document (around there?!) but I've noticed an absence of several posts I made in his threads.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on October 19, 2012, 07:25:41 PM
In other news, IDW still pops his head up at Godlike, but he hasn't said anything new in years.


Is he this guy that is currently posting as "RelentlesslyClever" and spends most of his time talking about poop?

No.  Relentlessly Clever is Patrick aka Dr Socks.  IDW was on at least one of those threads but he doesn't usually log in as he is usually banned on site.

Edit to add:
IDW posted on this thread
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2006507/pg1
as "Anonymous Astrophysicist" with ID number 1400413



It looks like Patrick will fit in well on GLP.  He's got himself a paid membership so he can moderate (silence his critics) his own threads

And been making good use of it.  I haven't bothered trying to document (around there?!) but I've noticed an absence of several posts I made in his threads.

I think he'll fit in well around there.  The only ones that seem to take each other seriously are the doomsday prophets.  Pretty much everything else is viewed as a joke.  Seems like a good use of his time.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on October 20, 2012, 08:23:20 AM
In other news, IDW still pops his head up at Godlike, but he hasn't said anything new in years.


Is he this guy that is currently posting as "RelentlesslyClever" and spends most of his time talking about poop?

No.  Relentlessly Clever is Patrick aka Dr Socks.  IDW was on at least one of those threads but he doesn't usually log in as he is usually banned on site.

Edit to add:
IDW posted on this thread
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2006507/pg1
as "Anonymous Astrophysicist" with ID number 1400413



It looks like Patrick will fit in well on GLP.  He's got himself a paid membership so he can moderate (silence his critics) his own threads

And been making good use of it.  I haven't bothered trying to document (around there?!) but I've noticed an absence of several posts I made in his threads.

I think he'll fit in well around there.  The only ones that seem to take each other seriously are the doomsday prophets.  Pretty much everything else is viewed as a joke.  Seems like a good use of his time.

What's his username there?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on October 20, 2012, 09:26:17 AM
Quote
What's his username there?

"RelentlesslyClever."  Oh, the irony. It burns!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on October 20, 2012, 09:36:44 AM
What's his username there?
I'm getting confused, but, yep, if you mean Patrick Tekeli aka Dr Socks, he is 'RelentlesslyClever (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/members/113595/profile)' (in name only)
Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Sus_pilot on October 20, 2012, 06:29:37 PM
Now he's saying that because they left the Hasselblads on the moon the missions were faked?  Wow.  Just wow.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on October 20, 2012, 07:49:47 PM
Now he's saying that because they left the Hasselblads on the moon the missions were faked?  Wow.  Just wow.

What's worse, he is now using a real flesh and blood stand in to pursue the same ridiculous argument on ATS. (Yes, he's found a flesh and blood sock puppet!)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on October 20, 2012, 08:15:56 PM
What's worse, he is now using a real flesh and blood stand in to pursue the same ridiculous argument on ATS. (Yes, he's found a flesh and blood sock puppet!)
That's a gross mental image. :o
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on October 20, 2012, 10:34:27 PM
What's worse, he is now using a real flesh and blood stand in to pursue the same ridiculous argument on ATS. (Yes, he's found a flesh and blood sock puppet!)

Yeah, Sayonara Jupiter, whose thought processes I characterize as "Sayonara Logic".

(I post on ATS as Saint Exupery)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on October 21, 2012, 08:37:33 AM
I posted a thought on the Godlike camera thread under 'Saint Leibowitz'.
Geeze, you know a guy don't got much when the OP is making tangents.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on October 21, 2012, 06:24:29 PM
Quote
(I post on ATS as Saint Exupery)

You do great work there. You'll never guess my handle!  ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on October 21, 2012, 06:26:13 PM
Quote
I posted a thought on the Godlike camera thread under 'Saint Leibowitz'.
Geeze, you know a guy don't got much when the OP is making tangents.

Amazingly, although he has the power simply to delete posts he does not like, he responds to them by quoting the entire post and then deleting the original!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 21, 2012, 07:27:13 PM
Eery time I read his drivel on GLP I just want to call him names, so I stay away.  More power to you guys that can keep your cool there. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on October 21, 2012, 07:41:44 PM
Eh, I post on youtube. One might say my epidermal layer has increased through constant abrasion.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on October 22, 2012, 06:46:55 PM
Quote
I posted a thought on the Godlike camera thread under 'Saint Leibowitz'.
Geeze, you know a guy don't got much when the OP is making tangents.

Amazingly, although he has the power simply to delete posts he does not like, he responds to them by quoting the entire post and then deleting the original!
I thought it was just me, but yes he does.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on October 22, 2012, 06:53:51 PM
Quote
I posted a thought on the Godlike camera thread under 'Saint Leibowitz'.
Geeze, you know a guy don't got much when the OP is making tangents.

Amazingly, although he has the power simply to delete posts he does not like, he responds to them by quoting the entire post and then deleting the original!
ok, lets play the game. not AC cos there are too many.
Not nomuse or halcyon.
Not me cos I am AC over there.
ZM? I somehow doubt it.
CB? Perhaps.
LR? Perhaps
User 74444? Perhaps.
Am I getting warm?

Good grief , not AN/DR.A?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on October 22, 2012, 07:02:22 PM
Len Brazil?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on October 22, 2012, 07:07:15 PM
That UK chappie whose name always escapes me. You know the one. sarky, but really knows his photo stuff, and I mean really. Hell I learned photographic stuff from his rebuttal of web loons, and I am not too shabby on photos
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on October 25, 2012, 06:09:07 PM
If anyone is interested, "Mr. May" has responded to my question by PM over at JREF. I have posted the entirety in the open forum. He begins the reply with a headline (check), twists my use of the phrase "alleged conversation" to imply that he claimed it was spoken (check), insults my intelligence then refuses to provide a straight answer (double check!). Then, as if to underline that it is indeed Patrick, he gives an nonsensical justification for providing unnecessary autobiographical detail...  which was completely irrelevant to the question.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 25, 2012, 06:24:40 PM
I post as Pooneil on JREF and posted a query in the forum as to why he gave so recent an "example" of his long fought effort at debunking hoax believers.  I got just a repeat of his post claiming a 10 year engagement in debunking. Ya, sure, whatever. 

He must be feeling the heat and avoiding public discussion while doing his mental reset, so he can approach us from the beginning again.   
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on October 26, 2012, 07:31:29 PM
If anyone is interested, "Mr. May" has responded to my question by PM over at JREF. I have posted the entirety in the open forum. He begins the reply with a headline (check), twists my use of the phrase "alleged conversation" to imply that he claimed it was spoken (check), insults my intelligence then refuses to provide a straight answer (double check!). Then, as if to underline that it is indeed Patrick, he gives an nonsensical justification for providing unnecessary autobiographical detail...  which was completely irrelevant to the question.
This is not disimilar to my experience. You are more forthright than I have been
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DJW001 on November 04, 2012, 07:32:52 AM
Quote
He must be feeling the heat and avoiding public discussion while doing his mental reset, so he can approach us from the beginning again.

Actually, he has been quite active over at ATS recently. His current "discovery" is that the aberration of starlight caused by the craft's motion would render the optical sextant useless. He is, of course, insensible to the fact that the optics were not the primary means of navigation, and that the ship's computer had a subroutine to compensate for it. He sacrificed about half a dozen valiant sock puppets in the effort, and has now returned as "marcomichael." Be prepared for a new wave of navigation related assaults. Here is a link to a very informative paper on the subject:

http://ia700509.us.archive.org/21/items/nasa_techdoc_19670004771/19670004771.pdf

You'll note that it's by a Russian, so it's more trustworthy than anything NASA might say. ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: pzkpfw on November 05, 2012, 01:42:09 AM
Oh joy: http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/130467-Miscellaneous-Apollo-hoax-discussion?p=2077567#post2077567

This him again?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on November 05, 2012, 03:57:54 AM
Oh joy: http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/130467-Miscellaneous-Apollo-hoax-discussion?p=2077567#post2077567

This him again?


interesting user-name.... an anagram of "absent egos"
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on November 05, 2012, 06:25:55 AM
Actually, he has been quite active over at ATS recently. His current "discovery" is that the aberration of starlight caused by the craft's motion would render the optical sextant useless. He is, of course, insensible to the fact that the optics were not the primary means of navigation, and that the ship's computer had a subroutine to compensate for it.
And insensible to the fact that the Apollo 8 CMP, Jim Lovell, obtained exactly the same results with on-board optical navigation as the ground network with radio tracking.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on November 05, 2012, 10:31:24 AM
He's also posted most recently (a couple of weeks ago) as "UtahJay" on the Economist web site (comments about the Romney/Apollo article).   Silly and pointless as usual.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on December 09, 2012, 10:22:11 PM
Well, I see that BS (was there ever a more appropriate set of initials?) has started posting his junk on YT again. Just some tired old vids, but I wonder if he's warming up for another commercial release of some kind.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Rob260259 on December 13, 2012, 02:40:17 PM
Yup. But he deleted all comments on all of his videos (even the ones of the Aussie boy) and disabled ratings and comments. What a surprise...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on December 17, 2012, 11:37:58 AM
I wonder whatever happened to Moon Man (sorry, another thread made me think of him). Is he still up in Canada making legal history, despite his law qualifications being as ambiguous as the survival of Shrodinger's Cat?

Unlike Patrick, he appears to have at least given up tilting at lunar windmills once his time here was over.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Not Myself on December 17, 2012, 06:26:21 PM
I wonder whatever happened to Moon Man

That guy was hilarious.

Maybe his work on the great Apollo hoax was done, and he's moved on to unmask other conspiracies.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on December 18, 2012, 02:17:55 PM
Moon Man's rants were among the most bizarre things I have ever seen.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on December 18, 2012, 06:49:21 PM
"So...how far from the gun would the alleged bullet need to be before it achieved this so-called 'muzzle velocity?'"
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on December 23, 2012, 01:12:35 PM
I see that the Hunched One seems to be wandering away from lunar matters these days in favor of things surrounding the JFK assassination... among other things, he's been applying his Brobdingnagian skills at photo analysis to old images of Cuban missile sites.

Not a subject for this board, thank heavens, except maybe under Other Conspiracies.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Daggerstab on December 28, 2012, 09:03:27 AM
Faceman's post has been moved to a separate thread:

NASA's 30 Billion Dollar Scam (http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=272.0)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ineluki on January 02, 2013, 10:39:14 AM
I wonder whatever happened to Moon Man (sorry, another thread made me think of him). Is he still up in Canada making legal history, despite his law qualifications being as ambiguous as the survival of Shrodinger's Cat?

At least the cat had an even chance.

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on January 08, 2013, 10:32:29 AM
"chrisbobson" now appearing on BAUT, I mean cosmoquest, looks like a good candidate for yet another sock-puppet of PT.  "My Apollo study group" indeed.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Laurel on January 08, 2013, 11:19:02 AM
"chrisbobson" now appearing on BAUT, I mean cosmoquest, looks like a good candidate for yet another sock-puppet of PT.  "My Apollo study group" indeed.
And guess who just registered here?  ::)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Hal on January 08, 2013, 04:13:12 PM
"chrisbobson" now appearing on BAUT, I mean cosmoquest, looks like a good candidate for yet another sock-puppet of PT.  "My Apollo study group" indeed.
And guess who just registered here?  ::)

And also on JREF, where he presents himself as an immunologist.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 08, 2013, 04:19:58 PM
And also on JREF, where he presents himself as an immunologist.

Hm, the circle of (no) life is complete.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mag40 on January 08, 2013, 04:51:48 PM
And also on JREF, where he presents himself as an immunologist.

Hm, the circle of (no) life is complete.

He bumps his old JREF thread and congratulates himself in the process. Oh, and just to attempt to muddy the waters......he claims not to understand the "lost bird" hogwash. Very convincing stuff ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 08, 2013, 05:34:23 PM
He bumps his old JREF thread and congratulates himself in the process.

...paying special attention to the poop-addled Frank Borman, to make sure we all understand what a brilliant medical analysis that was amid the zillions of other points made and abandoned in that thread.

Quote
Oh, and just to attempt to muddy the waters......he claims not to understand the "lost bird" hogwash. Very convincing stuff ;)

True, I'm absolutely 100 percent convinced that new poster can't possibly be Patrick Tekeli of San Francisco.  What a brilliant job he did of deflecting any possible suspicion a reasonable and attentive reader might have briefly harbored.

 ::)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Chew on January 08, 2013, 06:07:00 PM
And also on JREF, where he presents himself as an immunologist.

Hm, the circle of (no) life is complete.

He bumps his old JREF thread and congratulates himself in the process. Oh, and just to attempt to muddy the waters......he claims not to understand the "lost bird" hogwash. Very convincing stuff ;)

Ugh. I felt sick to my stomach reading that.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 08, 2013, 06:18:29 PM
Ugh. I felt sick to my stomach reading that.

Maybe you caught what Frank Borman had.

Keep reading; it's hysterical.  He's trying ever so hard not to seem like he knows what's going on, so much so that he's comically off in the opposite extreme.  "Economist?  What is this 'economist' of which you speak?"

What's even more funny is that Tekeli tried to style himself at one point as a "drama critic" with an incisive and infallible sense of when human behavior was genuine and when it was contrived.  I think we found something else for the fallen doctor to suck at.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mag40 on January 08, 2013, 06:25:37 PM
Now he's joined here, I'm wondering how he's going to bump his old thread....since it sits in the archives.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 08, 2013, 06:33:24 PM
With any luck he'll realize he's been spotted and just slink away for another six months.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Hal on January 08, 2013, 06:36:07 PM
What's even more funny is that Tekeli tried to style himself at one point as a "drama critic" with an incisive and infallible sense of when human behavior was genuine and when it was contrived.  I think we found something else for the fallen doctor to suck at.

Didn't he use that one before, maybe on one of the BAUT threads?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 08, 2013, 06:51:37 PM
Didn't he use that one before, maybe on one of the BAUT threads?

He may have.  During most of his tenure at BAUT I was away from the forum, setting up a business.  I caught only the tail end of it and read the rest in retrospect, and I don't remember him making that claim.  But Patrick1000 at JREF several times tried to back away from technical arguments by saying he was just subjectively evaluating the "performances" of the Apollo astronauts and deciding that they must be lying.  After all, no real astronaut would behave in any way other than what a banjo-playing bicycle designer would envision, right?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on January 08, 2013, 07:39:19 PM
Ha, Patrick once told us that he had been hired by the UN to make some reports less concise.  That is one thing I actually believe he is capable of.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 08, 2013, 07:43:55 PM
Ha, Patrick once told us that he had been hired by the UN to make some reports less concise.  That is one thing I actually believe he is capable of.

Maybe they have some poop that needs studying.  Honestly I've seen only two people in the world so interested in Frank Borman's feces:  Patrick1000 and chrisbobson.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mag40 on January 08, 2013, 07:56:48 PM
Is this correct......the 'reason' Borman had a bottom accident in space was because the cash machine used by NASA wanted to make the mission more authentic? Only really clever people....like Dr Socks....are actually smart enough to figure this?

I really, really, really wish conspiracy theorists would just go away and get a life....and a logic implant.
Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Sus_pilot on January 09, 2013, 12:26:00 AM
Wow.  Banned at JREF so fast that, if it were a bar, he couldn't even have ordered a drink.

"What's going on at the door?"

""Nuthin'. Same jerk who was here last week trying to sell phony life insurance policies..."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: chrisbobson on January 09, 2013, 05:08:27 AM
Wow.  Banned at JREF so fast that, if it were a bar, he couldn't even have ordered a drink.

"What's going on at the door?"

""Nuthin'. Same jerk who was here last week trying to sell phony life insurance policies..."

Tell me 'bout it.  Any dude can, in my case gal, can log in.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mag40 on January 09, 2013, 05:54:41 AM
Wow.  Banned at JREF so fast that, if it were a bar, he couldn't even have ordered a drink.

"What's going on at the door?"

""Nuthin'. Same jerk who was here last week trying to sell phony life insurance policies..."

Something tells me......this creepy thread necromancy 'dude' is not long for this place. I hope LunarOrbit doesn't mind a bit of tidying to do after his mess.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on January 09, 2013, 05:56:48 AM
The necroposting is pretty annoying.

I wonder if LunarOrbit could put in a setting so threads without any activity for a certain period of time (4 weeks?) get locked automatically?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: chrisbobson on January 09, 2013, 06:05:45 AM
Man, I wish their claims about how much debunkers get paid were correct.

I wonder if there really are paid shills.  Somehow I doubt it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mag40 on January 09, 2013, 07:11:10 AM
I wonder if there really are paid shills.  Somehow I doubt it.

That is 40 thread bumps and 65 posts in about an hour. There is something very wrong with you.....the fact you can't see that....makes it even worse.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: chrisbobson on January 09, 2013, 07:12:42 AM
Where is the DAKDAK guy now?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mag40 on January 09, 2013, 07:23:43 AM
Where is the DAKDAK guy now?

I wonder if docsocks will manage to bump every thread before the moderator logs on. There's mad and then there's pattycake10000000.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: chrisbobson on January 09, 2013, 07:25:58 AM
Where is profmunkin, solid poster but timid.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mag40 on January 09, 2013, 07:31:00 AM
Where is profmunkin, solid poster but timid.

He's bike riding with DAKDAK. They go swimming too....the butterfly IIRC. He's also "best fiends" with decisively from ATS and a host of other incarnations. I'm sure you can contact him via a few neurons and let him know how much you love his posts.

eta: freudian slip....fiends.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Valis on January 09, 2013, 07:31:19 AM
I wonder if docsocks will manage to bump every thread before the moderator logs on. There's mad and then there's pattycake10000000.
Only a few more to go.

chrisbobson, how about making your own thread to discuss your own points, instead of adding content-free remarks to old threads?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on January 09, 2013, 07:33:26 AM
.. It's actually quite sad watching someone implode ..

I wonder what were the little things - the often insignificant events that added up to send that mind off into oblivion and delusion?  I'd lament lyrically about it being a waste, but frankly there are plenty of wise, literate, sane folks out there, so there's nothing to lament.  Just a train wreck to watch, and a not-very-interesting one at that - at least the old PT had some 'arguments' to vomit up...

Anyway, carry on posting one-liners, Patrick Tekeli - knock yourself out until the ban and deletion...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mag40 on January 09, 2013, 07:39:47 AM
.. It's actually quite sad watching someone implode ..

I wonder what were the little things - the often insignificant events that added up to send that mind off into oblivion and delusion?  I'd lament lyrically about it being a waste, but frankly there are plenty of wise, literate, sane folks out there, so there's nothing to lament.  Just a train wreck to watch, and a not-very-interesting one at that - at least the old PT had some 'arguments' to vomit up...

Anyway, carry on posting one-liners, Patrick Tekeli - knock yourself out until the ban and deletion...

He's logged off in both senses ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: dwight on January 09, 2013, 07:49:03 AM
see post 87
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Halcyon Dayz, FCD on January 09, 2013, 08:18:21 AM
That is 40 thread bumps and 65 posts in about an hour. There is something very wrong with you.....the fact you can't see that....makes it even worse.
Pardon my French, but WTF!?

How is that not unhealthily obsessive?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Daggerstab on January 09, 2013, 08:23:51 AM
That is 40 thread bumps and 65 posts in about an hour. There is something very wrong with you.....the fact you can't see that....makes it even worse.
Pardon my French, but WTF!?

How is that not unhealthily obsessive?

Well, it could be just terribly immature. I've done something similar on a forum. When I was 16.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: dwight on January 09, 2013, 09:03:29 AM
No, its good. It makes the hoax believer side appear all the more rational and sane.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 09, 2013, 10:22:36 AM
Well, it could be just terribly immature. I've done something similar on a forum. When I was 16.

Yeah but this guy purports to be an adult.  He's a very, very sick man.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Chew on January 09, 2013, 10:42:52 AM
How pathetic can one person get?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on January 09, 2013, 10:56:35 AM
I wonder if there really are paid shills.  Somehow I doubt it.
Well, there's the opposite - people like you who obsessively lie and spam their drivel across multiple forums, for free. 

Patrick, you were banned instantly on JREF and quickly on cosmoquest and your latest sock-puppet will no doubt be banned here once LO has a little free time.  Clearly, you have no problem lying to sign up yet again under a very transparent sock.  Your complete lack of integrity, coupled with your utter incompetence, are bad enough; but your obsession with spamming ever-less-creative drivel speaks poorly of your mental health.  Please get some professional help.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mag40 on January 09, 2013, 07:42:58 PM
Wow.  Banned at JREF so fast that, if it were a bar, he couldn't even have ordered a drink.

"What's going on at the door?"

""Nuthin'. Same jerk who was here last week trying to sell phony life insurance policies..."

Something tells me......this creepy thread necromancy 'dude' is not long for this place. I hope LunarOrbit doesn't mind a bit of tidying to do after his mess.

http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/30979-Suspended-banned-posters-log?p=2096700#post2096700

I guess there is no point in appealing to this raving loony to get some help. That's 2 down and just here to go.


edit: actually, I found reference to chrisbobson on ATS so 2 down 2 to go.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread916192/pg1

Quite mad.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mag40 on January 28, 2013, 12:15:51 PM
Wow.  Banned at JREF so fast that, if it were a bar, he couldn't even have ordered a drink.

"What's going on at the door?"

""Nuthin'. Same jerk who was here last week trying to sell phony life insurance policies..."

Something tells me......this creepy thread necromancy 'dude' is not long for this place. I hope LunarOrbit doesn't mind a bit of tidying to do after his mess.

http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/30979-Suspended-banned-posters-log?p=2096700#post2096700

I guess there is no point in appealing to this raving loony to get some help. That's 2 down and just here to go.


edit: actually, I found reference to chrisbobson on ATS so 2 down 2 to go.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread916192/pg1

Quite mad.

It gets even worse......we now have the madman raking up a dozen threads on CQ......under the title "
goodnightsnookieukums"

Is there a logical fallacy entitled "Appeal to Psychiatry"?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Valis on January 28, 2013, 12:53:19 PM
It gets even worse......we now have the madman raking up a dozen threads on CQ......under the title "
goodnightsnookieukums"
Referring to his Apollo 13 "timeline problems" on the previous ApolloHoax forum seems like a give-away.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 28, 2013, 12:54:08 PM
Does he really think we don't know it's him?  His m.o. isn't even imaginative anymore.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on January 28, 2013, 01:43:38 PM
I love his "subtle" comments about "Oh, there was a poster who made some impressive points - I can't quite remember where I saw them though - anyone remember who that was?"

The forum necromancy is a new thing, though. I guess he was so glad to get in to CQ that he had to comment on every thread he came across, like a starving man eating everything in sight once he finds food.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on January 28, 2013, 01:55:01 PM
Actually, poor deranged Patrick's thread necromancy isn't new either.  His previous sock on CQ did the same thing.

It's pretty amusing that he might believe he's fooling anybody with his clumsy, transparent, dishonest sock-puppetry.  Scratch that, it's merely sad and rather pathetic. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 28, 2013, 02:00:56 PM
I love his "subtle" comments about "Oh, there was a poster who made some impressive points - I can't quite remember where I saw them though - anyone remember who that was?"

Yeah the fawning over his previous socks is just tremendously amusing.  Does he really think that's not a dead giveaway?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: pzkpfw on January 28, 2013, 02:20:32 PM
Commenting in their "relative parallax" thread, so as to build "credibility" for a future "I can use a sextant" claim?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on January 28, 2013, 03:11:46 PM
What became of that sock who was a high-school dropout and barely literate, but could really use that sextant, dude!

Maybe he grew up, became a proctologist and married a nice girl from Beijing...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on January 28, 2013, 03:58:59 PM
I'm still scratching my head over a guy who... well, I guess I'll call him a fellow traveler, as he was an anti-hoaxnut type, but just as ill-informed in his own way...

Some HB was blathering on about 'why don't they just turn the Hubble and photograph the Apollo landing sites if they're really there?' - I pointed out the resolution of the HST and (tried to) explain why it wouldn't show up anything as small as a LM descent stage.

This guy jumped in to say that that was nonsense, that anyone could see the artifacts at the landing sites through a "3-D Telescope" like the one he bought at the local camera store... he had looked at them many times.

???
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on January 28, 2013, 06:23:27 PM
I'm still scratching my head over a guy who... well, I guess I'll call him a fellow traveler, as he was an anti-hoaxnut type, but just as ill-informed in his own way...

Some HB was blathering on about 'why don't they just turn the Hubble and photograph the Apollo landing sites if they're really there?' - I pointed out the resolution of the HST and (tried to) explain why it wouldn't show up anything as small as a LM descent stage.

This guy jumped in to say that that was nonsense, that anyone could see the artifacts at the landing sites through a "3-D Telescope" like the one he bought at the local camera store... he had looked at them many times.

???

That reminds me of a HB that I know. He was looking at my Celestron C11 and he wanted to know if the Apollo sites could be seen. After a couple of minutes talking about the Dawes limit, resolution and the fact that you'd need a mirror a couple of miles wide he then declared that the fact that we couldn't see the Apollo sites as proof of the hoax. After all, if a spy satellite can read a number plate why cant Hubble see the landing sites???

Some people just want to believe the hoax too much. It's like arguing religion with a Bible basher. They want and need to believe and will countenance nothing to the contrary. Just look at the mental contortions that some past theologians (and some of the brightest people in history) went to to reconcile the idea of god, virgin births and so on. They drove themselves mad trying to get it all to fit together.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Donnie B. on January 28, 2013, 06:40:11 PM
What we say: *evidence* *physics* *details*

What the HB hears: *trombone sounds from Peanuts cartoons*
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on January 28, 2013, 07:41:29 PM
Or there's that Gerry Larsen cartoon; "Bowser blah blah blah blah.  Blah blah Bowser blah blah! Blah Bowser, blah blah, blah blah!"

Kinda goes in the same "NASA can do anything (but land on the Moon)" when they won't accept that a spacecraft could make it to the Moon, but totally believe that there is a forest full of high-tech reconnaissance satellites up there able to read the newspaper over their shoulders.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Halcyon Dayz, FCD on January 28, 2013, 07:43:07 PM
if a spy satellite can read a number plate
I always wonder why people use Hollywood flicks for their tech references rather than actual tech references.

I'm sure the NRO is happy about it though. This might actually be a real life example of a deliberately spread disinfo meme.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 29, 2013, 01:11:18 AM
All Tekeli's old arguments are slowly being reintroduced.  It's almost like watching a car crash in slow motion.  He has raised the political pacifism point again.  He has also alluded to his anonymous insider.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on January 29, 2013, 01:16:31 AM
He certainly made his saving throw vs. sarcasm.

I'm afraid this go-round will be the one that finally gets me banned at Cosmo Quest.  That's okay, tho...when the moderation is so stringent I actually avoid posting on most threads...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on January 29, 2013, 04:45:31 AM
He certainly made his saving throw vs. sarcasm.

I'm afraid this go-round will be the one that finally gets me banned at Cosmo Quest.  That's okay, tho...when the moderation is so stringent I actually avoid posting on most threads...
At this point, one can be infracted for a noisome fart. I have no idea how they mods there detect it, but they do.
Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Sus_pilot on January 29, 2013, 07:17:37 AM
CQ's a bit frustrating.  I was just curious about "snookie's" posts, so I clicked on his name on the above thread and I was taken to the "You must register first" screen.  I suppose there's a good reason for that, but I can't figure out what that might be.

Yes, I know it's not a big deal to register, but I'm trying to keep on a diet, so to speak.  It takes enough time to read stuff, let alone respond, which I'd be tempted to do.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on January 29, 2013, 09:22:38 AM
I've tried to register at BAUT, before it became CQ, and it always glitched out on me, so I've always been unable to see all that good stuff behind "you must register first".  :'(
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Daggerstab on January 29, 2013, 09:37:30 AM
CQ's a bit frustrating.  I was just curious about "snookie's" posts, so I clicked on his name on the above thread and I was taken to the "You must register first" screen.  I suppose there's a good reason for that, but I can't figure out what that might be.

Have you tried doing the same thing on this forum while not logged in? :D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 29, 2013, 11:01:10 AM
Now Tekeli is chomping at the bit to introduce his "militarized Apollo" theory.  We'll see if that doesn't give him away to the CQ mods.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on January 29, 2013, 12:01:30 PM
I see goodnight.. is citing his residency in Italy as proof of the Moon hoax. I seem to recall him saying that as Patrick1000 at JREF. He's also claiming to have lived in Istambul. That's Istambul, not Comstamtimople.

It's feeble it really is.

btw I'm not a member at CQ, but I can see threads easily enough. I suspect the 'you need to register' thing is because you're trying to access member details rather than the forum itself.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on January 29, 2013, 12:02:59 PM
He's also claiming to have lived in Istambul. That's Istambul, not Comstamtimople.

New monitor, please. Last one has diet coke on it.  ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 29, 2013, 12:06:04 PM
The "everyone's brainwashed but me -- no offense" argument has earned him his first infraction.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on January 29, 2013, 12:10:57 PM
He's also claiming to have lived in Istambul. That's Istambul, not Comstamtimople.

New monitor, please. Last one has diet coke on it.  ;)
Why did Constantinople get the works?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on January 29, 2013, 12:14:45 PM
He's also claiming to have lived in Istambul. That's Istambul, not Comstamtimople.

New monitor, please. Last one has diet coke on it.  ;)
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on January 29, 2013, 12:23:25 PM
Even Old New York was once New Amsterdam.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on January 29, 2013, 01:06:18 PM
I see goodnight.. is citing his residency in Italy as proof of the Moon hoax. I seem to recall him saying that as Patrick1000 at JREF. He's also claiming to have lived in Istambul. That's Istambul, not Comstamtimople.

It's feeble it really is.

btw I'm not a member at CQ, but I can see threads easily enough. I suspect the 'you need to register' thing is because you're trying to access member details rather than the forum itself.

Gaaaah!

On the good side, now the tune stuck in my head isn't from "Peter Pan, Jr." (which I worked all weekend).
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on January 29, 2013, 01:07:00 PM
I see the problem clearly, we can't send him back to Constantinople and Istanbul doesn't want him back.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on January 29, 2013, 01:58:13 PM
I barely prevented myself from pointing that out.  After all, the keys are right next to each other on a keyboard, and it's not that implausible a legitimate typo.
Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Sus_pilot on January 29, 2013, 02:06:01 PM
CQ's a bit frustrating.  I was just curious about "snookie's" posts, so I clicked on his name on the above thread and I was taken to the "You must register first" screen.  I suppose there's a good reason for that, but I can't figure out what that might be.

Have you tried doing the same thing on this forum while not logged in? :D

That's one of the reasons I registered. But when you do that, you get tempted to respond.  Case in point...
Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Sus_pilot on January 29, 2013, 02:11:44 PM
I barely prevented myself from pointing that out.  After all, the keys are right next to each other on a keyboard, and it's not that implausible a legitimate typo.
It's the pronunciation, if sounded out, that's hilarious.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on January 29, 2013, 03:51:41 PM
Now Tekeli is chomping at the bit to introduce his "militarized Apollo" theory.  We'll see if that doesn't give him away to the CQ mods.
Is that the name he uses on CQ?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on January 29, 2013, 04:16:11 PM
"One recognizes the tiger by its claws."

He did achieve something over there.  Although it might be more properly called an own goal.  Necromanced over a dozen threads, and got many of the regulars invested in them before they were shut down.  Now he's confined to a single thread -- and if experience is any guide, he'll now walk away from it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on January 29, 2013, 04:29:25 PM
Now Tekeli is chomping at the bit to introduce his "militarized Apollo" theory.  We'll see if that doesn't give him away to the CQ mods.
Is that the name he uses on CQ?

No, he is (shudder) goodnightsnookieukums.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on January 29, 2013, 07:40:05 PM
Now Tekeli is chomping at the bit to introduce his "militarized Apollo" theory.  We'll see if that doesn't give him away to the CQ mods.
Is that the name he uses on CQ?

No, he is (shudder) goodnightsnookieukums.

Oh.  Oh... my.   Well, thank you, i think.  ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ineluki on January 30, 2013, 08:15:36 AM
He's also claiming to have lived in Istambul. That's Istambul, not Comstamtimople.

I guess he is somewhat stuck in a past century, but can't even get that right
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Istanbul#Stamboul


Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: pzkpfw on January 30, 2013, 02:38:35 PM
That was very interesting.

He gets told to stop bringing up his "secret army" nonsense, and makes his largest most detailed post in response.

It's as though "I'm not allowed to talk about X" makes "X" his biggest 'evidence', or maybe the "I'm not allowed to talk about..." part is itself somehow 'evidence'. Some kind of weird argument by proxy or something.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on January 30, 2013, 03:10:58 PM
I honestly have no idea what he is doing in those threads.  My best guess is that he doesn't either.

It is possible he is being conciliatory/playing both sides of the fence because the nature of his mission is fact-gathering.  Oh, not in the way we mean it.  I mean getting other people to hand him technical-sounding terms and the titles of documents he won't bother to read and the names of people he can pretend to be in contact with, so he can take it somewhere else and look all impressive and stuffs with his leet research skills.

That someplace else might even be a book, but I'm pretty sure the book is more an inchoate idea than something he's actually made an outline for, much less researched publishers for.

More likely is that he just wants to be part of the argument, and better yet, be accepted/appreciated for his wit and knowledge.  So he doesn't really care which way he argues at any one moment, as long as he can stay in the room and look good doing it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 30, 2013, 03:35:46 PM
I mean getting other people to hand him technical-sounding terms and the titles of documents he won't bother to read and the names of people he can pretend to be in contact with, so he can take it somewhere else and look all impressive and stuffs with his leet research skills.

That was Tekeli's m.o. at JREF.  He would pump his critics for details, then wait a bit and regurgitate them as if he had known about them all along.

Quote
More likely is that he just wants to be part of the argument, and better yet, be accepted/appreciated for his wit and knowledge.

I agree; he definitely shows the signs of the ego-driven conspiracist.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on January 31, 2013, 02:05:04 AM
Think I've figured out one of the things that makes him so instantly recognizable.

It's a Bulwer-Lytton contest effect.  You know how there are two kinds of people who enter that contest; good writers pretending to be bad writers, and bad writers trying to be good writers pretending to be bad writers.

Doctor Socks likes creating socks that aren't as educated as he fancies himself to be.  And they all end up sounding alike; there's a common faux-naivete driven by the dual engines of failure to understand the people he is trying to imitate, and gaps in his own understanding of the language.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: slang on February 08, 2013, 01:43:35 PM
Now Tekeli is chomping at the bit to introduce his "militarized Apollo" theory.  We'll see if that doesn't give him away to the CQ mods.

"It's him! I just know it's him! He posts on the exact same topic!" is not always enough to get concensus for using the sock-hammer without mercy. There are already enough people complaining about enforcement of the rules at CQ, adding immediate bans for possibly innocent newbie HB's wouldn't help. I know it can be frustrating, it is for us too. There are several other posters active whom I strongly suspect of being socks (not HB related), but we don't ban people when only one or two mods are convinced of them being socks and others do not agree.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: RAF on February 08, 2013, 01:57:54 PM
Nice "work" on Jammin earlier today. He lasted just long enough to get banned.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: slang on February 08, 2013, 02:07:10 PM
Nice "work" on Jammin earlier today. He lasted just long enough to get banned.

There were several other attempts that didn't even get that far. Such a pathetic person. Sad.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on February 08, 2013, 02:47:07 PM
Maybe Patrick needs a *real* sock puppet. One he can sit on a chair facing him, and explain all about his theories. Every now and then, he can reach over and move the head, so that it nods in agreement.

He really does have an incredible compulsion to keep propounding his theories.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Inanimate Carbon Rod on February 08, 2013, 04:59:29 PM
Maybe Patrick needs a *real* sock puppet. One he can sit on a chair facing him, and explain all about his theories. Every now and then, he can reach over and move the head, so that it nods in agreement.

He really does have an incredible compulsion to keep propounding his theories.

All this talk of sock puppets puts me in mind of Mr Flibble!

(http://mrflibble.net/flibble3.jpg)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on February 08, 2013, 05:30:50 PM
And over at ATS, Patrick has exploded again, using the following names:
albertstapleton
bobbybluebland
armstrongheinyleak
hymiespankington
bormanwrinklerump

...  I kid you not..  He's also got another YT channel in the name of Ted Dooley.

It's all going to end VERY badly, Patrick Tekeli.  You've ignored repeated suggestions to seek help, so I'm probably wasting my time, but ..

Do you ever look at yourself and what you post?  Are you proud?

Is there someone in your life you truly respect and look up to?  My challenge to you is to show that person what you are doing.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on February 08, 2013, 05:46:11 PM
Maybe Patrick needs a *real* sock puppet. One he can sit on a chair facing him, and explain all about his theories. Every now and then, he can reach over and move the head, so that it nods in agreement.

He really does have an incredible compulsion to keep propounding his theories.

All this talk of sock puppets puts me in mind of Mr Flibble!

(http://mrflibble.net/flibble3.jpg)

 

I get chills when I think of Patrick with that much power.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on February 08, 2013, 07:14:27 PM
And over at ATS, Patrick has exploded again, using the following names:
albertstapleton
bobbybluebland
armstrongheinyleak
hymiespankington
bormanwrinklerump

...  I kid you not..  He's also got another YT channel in the name of Ted Dooley.

It's all going to end VERY badly, Patrick Tekeli.  You've ignored repeated suggestions to seek help, so I'm probably wasting my time, but ..

Do you ever look at yourself and what you post?  Are you proud?

Is there someone in your life you truly respect and look up to?  My challenge to you is to show that person what you are doing.
Ah, the Ted Dooley persona. Again.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: slang on February 08, 2013, 07:32:24 PM
And over at ATS, Patrick has exploded again, using the following names:
albertstapleton
bobbybluebland
armstrongheinyleak
hymiespankington
bormanwrinklerump

Some more names for the interested:
antiantigravity
Bobbybabybobby
chrisbobson
clingon
fireside
jammin
snodgrass
thaddius

I kind of feel sorry for him, typing up loads of posts, and most of it never appears on anyone's screen. So much time wasted...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Trebor on February 08, 2013, 08:30:03 PM
And over at ATS, ...

Never been there, is it anything like the David Icke forums?
If so I'm not sure I want to.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on February 08, 2013, 09:15:43 PM
And over at ATS, ...
Never been there, is it anything like the David Icke forums?
If so I'm not sure I want to.
Never spent any time at Icke's forums, so I don't know..  If it helps, AboveTopSecret is sort of somewhere between GodlikeProductions and Unexplained-Mysteries (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?act=idx).  U-M is probably the best general forum around if you want a mixture of crazy and good stuff with very good moderation (ie very rarely do they delete posts, and they tend to bend a little towards skepticism).

ATS is an extremely active forum, but suffers a little from moderation that mainly involves deleting posts (and people).. and they bend significantly *away* from skepticism..  It's a good place for finding new UFO reports as soon as they happen..  But I'd suggest that to use it effectively, you need to ignore the first few pages of replies and look for the 'better' posters..!  I'm still a member there - used to be quite active, but not much anymore due to the moderation issue.

Like I said, if you want a good mixture of woo with fair moderation, I'd suggest Unexplained-Mysteries.  Interestingly there's only one barely active Apollo-denial thread (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=227095&st=1635) there, with really only turbonium sporadically posting (and getting thwacked immediately).  But there's a fair bit of other spacey stuff.

Hmm, I wonder if Patrick will jump over there next..
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on February 09, 2013, 03:27:23 AM
And over at ATS, ...

Never been there, is it anything like the David Icke forums?
If so I'm not sure I want to.

The woo lovers are divided by ATS. They love it when it reveals something they agree with, but conversely there are lots of screams of 'cointelpro' and CIA front etc etc when someone deletes a post or moderates something in a way they don't like. There are all kinds of accusations about who owns it and that it is populated by huge numbers of shills and spooks. I think there are probably more dissenting (ie sane) voices there than the likes of Icke, where trying to argue any logical and coherent point of view is like wading against a tide of effluent.

It's slickly presented and has a lot of advertising content, which must generate some cash for someone!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on February 25, 2013, 04:41:58 PM
And he-who-shall-not-be-named is back at JREF, indomitablespirit.  Wow, that's a seriously sick obsession.  "I have a friend who's an expert in the environmental systems..."

He also posted in the medical threads, as an apparent attempt to ease his way back into the forum.  How much you want to bet he shows up to Cosmoquest within the next few days?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Drewid on February 25, 2013, 05:17:18 PM
He's so obvious isn't he.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on February 25, 2013, 05:58:40 PM
It's hard to be an effective sock puppet without being obvious in that way.  The point of a sock puppet is to buttress the claim of the principal identity.  And you can't do that without referring to the principal frequently.  Done too often or too soon, it becomes conspicuous.

As to the style and mode of argumentation, poor Patrick just isn't that creative.  He can't seem to vary his general approach well enough to avoid detection.  It's always the same editorialization, the same lame evasions, and the same general theme:  someone he knows has a great argument.  Oh, and poop.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on February 25, 2013, 08:20:20 PM
He's already well into the, "This is so fake I just want to puke!" meme.  I guess he doesn't have much time this month for trolling.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on February 25, 2013, 10:58:08 PM
Huh.  "lowerabdominalspirit" didn't last long, did he?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on February 26, 2013, 11:36:24 AM
Huh.  "lowerabdominalspirit" didn't last long, did he?
16 posts and an "administrative suspension", further action pending investigation by mod. I will bet on outright ban to follow.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Daggerstab on February 27, 2013, 04:03:58 AM
See also: theloniusmonkey on CosmoQuest. Slightly more subtle from the previous attempt: introduced himself in the appropriate forum (globe-trotting optics salesman, he-he), then blathered on some unrelated threads to simulate newbie activity before zooming in on the hoax threads, and then only two of them, instead of the usual dozen. Still not good at self-control though - his last posts mention what "decisively" is doing on other forums. ::) So far nobody has taken the bait.

And one of his non-hoax posts mentions bikes - in a thread about choosing a telescope.  ::)
Quote
I sometimes do little seminars at astronomy club gatherings for first time scope buyers. One time for a group of high end clients we even set up 8 scopes on Mauna Kea and these folks came out from the mainland, tried out the various options and so forth. Not that you need to go to one of these Mauna Kea things. Pretty expensive and a bit of overkill to say the least flying out Mauna Kea way to decide what first scope to buy. But my group has had a great deal of practical success doing this sort of thing locally now and then. Where I am heading with all of this if it isn't obvious is to ask the question, "What have you done research wise for yourself to try out this that and the other thing scope wise?" Buying scopes is a little bit like buying a bicycle. Some bicycles look great but do not ride well. Some bicycles do ride well, but not for everyone. Simply not the right bike for me but might be for you. And different people want to do different things with their bikes and likewise telescopes. I'd recommend if you haven't done so already that you hook up with a local astronomy club. There are plenty out there. See what other people are using and doing with their telescopes and work toward making an informed decision for yourself based on your interests and needs. Sounds like you will be successful. By that I mean you seem enthusiastic about it and so I suspect you'll have a lot of fun. Good Luck!
Yeah, Patrick, nobody knows it's you. We've been all fooled by your supreme thespian talents. ::)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on February 27, 2013, 04:49:16 AM
The creative writing student in me winces every time I read one of his posts.  Where's the organization?  Where's the flow?  Heck...what happened to those poor sentences!  He needs a good editor to Alexander through that Gordian Knot of prose.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on February 27, 2013, 09:41:12 AM
Poor organization is actually, from the perspective of a conspiracy theorist, an advantage.
If you post a Gish gallop in a way that is difficult to read, you can feel tremendously self-satisfied when your opponents do not mention some claim buried in your poorly formatted posts and can mention it later as proof of your statements truthitude.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on February 27, 2013, 09:55:59 AM
With the knowledge of telescopes that theloniusmonkey has demonstrated, I doubt that he has ever even looked through one.

Why would a prospective telescope buyer travel all the way to Mauna Kea from the mainland to check out a scope with all of the historic sites in California,  Nevada,  and New Mexico,  with seeing almost as good for testing purposes?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on February 27, 2013, 12:36:21 PM
Around the time my mom made a telescope for a class she was in, we went of a field trip with her class down to Palomar, for example, and of course I really ought to have gotten around to going to Mount Wilson, which was just right there for me.  I admit Mount Wilson is dealing with substantially more light pollution issues than it used to, but they still do good work there, right?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on February 28, 2013, 11:12:19 AM
I admit Mount Wilson is dealing with substantially more light pollution issues than it used to, but they still do good work there, right?

Right.  LA has that funky inversion layer that keeps a lot of the *ahem* "particulates" close to the ground:

(http://www.politeo.net/smog/downtown%20LA%20detal.jpg)

This makes the air at Mt. Wilson unusually clear and steady.  Looking up, light from below is not as badly scattered back down to the telescope as one might expect.  Telescopes in darker areas have an advantage when photographing very dim objects, but the steadiness of the air at Mt. Wilson keeps it a world class observatory for brighter objects:  planets, comets & stars (including the Sun - IIRC they still have a solar telescope up there).
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on February 28, 2013, 12:26:02 PM
Hee.  My first reaction was, "I know where that picture was taken!"
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on February 28, 2013, 02:27:45 PM
Right.  LA has that funky inversion layer that keeps a lot of the *ahem* "particulates" close to the ground:

Salt Lake City's is typically as bad or worse, especially this year so far.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Donnie B. on February 28, 2013, 04:54:29 PM
Right.  LA has that funky inversion layer that keeps a lot of the *ahem* "particulates" close to the ground:

Salt Lake City's is typically as bad or worse, especially this year so far.

I think Beijing gets bragging rights over either of you.  And I recently learned that Fairbanks, AK, can be even worse in winter because it is in a valley and a lot of residents burn wood for heat.  http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/16/nation/la-na-fairbanks-air-pollution-20130217
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on February 28, 2013, 05:11:44 PM
Right.  LA has that funky inversion layer that keeps a lot of the *ahem* "particulates" close to the ground:

Salt Lake City's is typically as bad or worse, especially this year so far.
Houston has the same problem.  When I was a teen doing summer working at the port, on a cloudless day the sky could be completely white with only a partially obscured sun visible.  I haven't seen it that bad here in decades.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on February 28, 2013, 11:53:02 PM
Hee.  My first reaction was, "I know where that picture was taken!"

I was guessing Manhattan Beach.  Am I close?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 01, 2013, 02:22:57 AM
I'm pretty sure it's Pasadena, actually, not that far from Pasadena High School.  You can see Mount Wilson from Pasadena, depending on air conditions.  But there's a church about six blocks away from the school that has that distinctive square tower.
Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Sus_pilot on March 01, 2013, 07:02:03 AM
Somewhat related:  is it Mt. Palomar that's near Warner Springs?  Took my first glider lesson there and remember seeing an observatory as we were being towed to altitude.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 01, 2013, 12:24:47 PM
Possibly?  I've only been the once; it's in San Diego County, which is a bit south for us to have trekked on a regular basis.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on March 01, 2013, 04:28:24 PM
Somewhat related:  is it Mt. Palomar that's near Warner Springs?  Took my first glider lesson there and remember seeing an observatory as we were being towed to altitude.


Yup!

They're about 13 miles apart ATCF

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/98915197/Map.png)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 04, 2013, 02:14:46 PM
Interesting.

A flood of PMs at the former BAUT.

I'll stand by my stance on that one.  I don't know if it is yet another appearance of Doctor Socks, but his posts are still hard to read.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Daggerstab on March 06, 2013, 07:43:29 AM
Can someone who's aware of Dr.Socks' exploits on other forums (ATS, David Icke's, etc.) tell me if the latest sock has developed a sudden interest in/knowledge of spacecraft cooling systems? I'm asking because of this (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?142789-How-Do-The-Cooling-Systems-On-Spacecraft-Radiate-Away-The-Heat-They-Create).
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 06, 2013, 01:16:05 PM
Can someone who's aware of Dr.Socks' exploits on other forums (ATS, David Icke's, etc.) tell me if the latest sock has developed a sudden interest in/knowledge of spacecraft cooling systems? I'm asking because of this (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?142789-How-Do-The-Cooling-Systems-On-Spacecraft-Radiate-Away-The-Heat-They-Create).

Patrick has a very long history of pumping his critics for details and specific facts, which he then regurgitates back as if he knew them all along.  He also has a history of professing expertise in science and mathematics while simultaneously exhibiting considerable ignorance of them.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Chew on March 06, 2013, 02:15:00 PM
Can someone who's aware of Dr.Socks' exploits on other forums (ATS, David Icke's, etc.) tell me if the latest sock has developed a sudden interest in/knowledge of spacecraft cooling systems? I'm asking because of this (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?142789-How-Do-The-Cooling-Systems-On-Spacecraft-Radiate-Away-The-Heat-They-Create).

Patrick has a very long history of pumping his critics for details and specific facts, which he then regurgitates back as if he knew them all along.

Yeah, that was pathetic. A search on that JREF thread for "regurgitat" found these posts where he was called out on it:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7859882&postcount=5556
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7810950&postcount=5042
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 06, 2013, 03:25:20 PM
Yup; he's moved on to JAQ'ing.  I'm up to three sigmas of certainty now on the latest sock, and I don't even have access to IP data.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ApolloGnomon on March 06, 2013, 03:44:21 PM
alexsanchez has made his way to Delusional Idiots forum with his "buzz armstrong" sideshow.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238191

So far, I'm not impressed. Nor am I convinced he's an incarnation of the famous "Dr. Socks, the man who mistook his @$$ for a hat."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 06, 2013, 04:25:29 PM
alexsanchez has made his way to Delusional Idiots forum with his "buzz armstrong" sideshow.

I'm glad he's landed in a place worthy of his attention.

Quote
So far, I'm not impressed. Nor am I convinced he's an incarnation of the famous "Dr. Socks, the man who mistook his @$$ for a hat."

Me neither.  Too different.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 06, 2013, 04:28:00 PM
I'm wondering what he meant by, "...due to dithering the radio receiver on earth to determine the LM's position..."

It makes me think of the tech rider request for, "Two speakers and a four-channel SM58" I heard about today.  That is; a poor attempt at regurgitating technical terms the user doesn't actually understand.

I'm not quite intrigued enough to go back through the various threads and try to figure out where he picked up dithering from, what he thinks it is, and how he thinks it applies (much less, how he thinks it LESSENS the accuracy of a measurement).
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 06, 2013, 04:38:34 PM
Yeah, that was pathetic. A search on that JREF thread for "regurgitat" found these posts where he was called out on it:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7859882&postcount=5556
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=7810950&postcount=5042
I suddenly now have the urge to ask theloniusmonkey to explain the Doppler effect in his own words.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on March 06, 2013, 07:03:41 PM
I'm wondering what he meant by, "...due to dithering the radio receiver on earth to determine the LM's position..."

He's implying GPS here, in 1969!

A little knowledge.....?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 07, 2013, 07:16:52 PM
A very little.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on March 07, 2013, 07:51:31 PM
I'm not sure what he could have meant by "dithering". Maybe he's talking about varying the pointing angles of the tracking antennas to center the signals in their beamwidths.

That is one of the information sources that can be used, but it is by no means the only one, and it's not nearly as accurate as two-way Doppler and PN ranging from multiple sites.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on March 09, 2013, 02:13:47 PM
Out in left field...

I read someone once again spouting the old chestnut that the reason no one involved in the hoax has blown the whistle is because of death threats, either from the CIA or some other black bag outfit.

No offense intended to our non-US friends here, but I get the feeling that most of the ones saying this aren't that familiar with life in America.  I just think that all those good ole boys in Houston, Huntsville, etc wouldn't all have responded so meekly to death threats, especially after a few beers on the weekend.

If there HAD been a threat-enforced cover-up, the surprising thing isn't that it worked, but that there weren't any reports of fire-fights involving NASA personnel.

Just a random thought...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on March 09, 2013, 03:41:01 PM
Just keeping the record complete..  Rather hilariously attempting to bait Jay, 'theloniusmonkey' - in a rather damning piece of self-identification as Patrick "I hate Jay" Tekeli - has now posted a plea for less 'harshness' at BAUT (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?142884-The-Importance-of-Etiquette-and-Being-Earnest-This-Forum-Is-Fascinating-Plus&goto=newpost).

:D

The thread has been closed (natch..), but not before it got a few bites..
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on March 09, 2013, 03:44:57 PM
To enforce the death threats,  the "NASA death squads" would have to be made aware of the fact of the existence of the hoax.

And other death squads would have to be sent to enforce their silence.

It's death squads all the way down.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 09, 2013, 04:39:20 PM
I almost posted to that.  Taking it in face value, if you walk on webbed feet and quack, you shouldn't be upset if people ask if you are a duck.

What he is doing looks exactly like JAQ'ing.  And is on old familiar refrains that have been sung almost exclusively by hoax believers.  (Sorry...now my ducks are singing.  Perhaps it is Lohengrin?)  And he is doing it in a style and approach which looks just like that of hoax believers.

And innocent or not, this comes down to poor forum etiquette.  If you are going to join a new forum, you are obligated to read some of the history and get a sense of the place.  Do they swear a lot there?  Does any mention of recasting turn rapidly into a flame war?  Are they already COMPLETELY over Matt Smith and want to talk about something new?

Whoever you are, man-that-walks-like-Patrick-and-quacks-like-Patrick, you have only yourself to blame for the equivalent of walking into a pen-turner's forum and asking them if they ever considered turning something more useful, like table legs perhaps.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Tedward on March 10, 2013, 07:00:38 AM
Often wondered who watches the death squads, who watches the watchmen and all that, it seems to be a stance many a hoax believer takes. So, how do you prove the squads loyalty?

Interviewer. Can you keep a secret?
Applicant. Yes.
Interviewer. Right, your are in. Start Monday.
Applicant. What will my duties be?
Interviewer. Can't tell you, its secret.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on March 10, 2013, 07:18:37 AM
Just keeping the record complete..  Rather hilariously attempting to bait Jay, 'theloniusmonkey' - in a rather damning piece of self-identification as Patrick "I hate Jay" Tekeli - has now posted a plea for less 'harshness' at BAUT (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?142884-The-Importance-of-Etiquette-and-Being-Earnest-This-Forum-Is-Fascinating-Plus&goto=newpost).
The thread has been closed (natch..), but not before it got a few bites..
P1k has simply progressed from blatant sockery to attempting "clever" sockery, and failed. Yet he still can't seem to help himself revealing his identity with his Jay obsession.

:D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on March 10, 2013, 10:44:21 AM
Am I missing fun ay CQ? I can't access it because there's something wrong with their Tapatalk plugin.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on March 10, 2013, 01:37:52 PM
Often wondered who watches the death squads, who watches the watchmen and all that, it seems to be a stance many a hoax believer takes. So, how do you prove the squads loyalty?

Interviewer. Can you keep a secret?
Applicant. Yes.
Interviewer. Right, your are in. Start Monday.
Applicant. What will my duties be?
Interviewer. Can't tell you, its secret.

Doing a bit of Satanic Advocacy, I guess the HB view is that THEY (the overlords) would use the generic death squads they have on call who don't need to be given a reason, just a name.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 10, 2013, 01:53:11 PM
Am I missing fun ay CQ? I can't access it because there's something wrong with their Tapatalk plugin.

To be honest, I don't even know what thread he's talking about.  I mean, I saw the complaint thread, but nothing is showing up for me in CT.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Daggerstab on March 10, 2013, 02:09:05 PM
That's because it's in "Space Exploration", not "Conspiracy Theories". Here's Jay's post that provoked the complaint:
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?142789-How-Do-The-Cooling-Systems-On-Spacecraft-Radiate-Away-The-Heat-They-Create&p=2113917#post2113917
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on March 10, 2013, 02:41:41 PM
Interviewer. Can you keep a secret?
Applicant. Yes.
Interviewer. Right, your are in. Start Monday.
Applicant. What will my duties be?
Interviewer. Can't tell you, its secret.

I used to have a poster expressing a similar sentiment on the wall of my office when I was in the Air Force.

"The secrecy of my job prevents me from knowing what I am doing"
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on March 10, 2013, 09:16:25 PM
Often wondered who watches the death squads, who watches the watchmen and all that, it seems to be a stance many a hoax believer takes. So, how do you prove the squads loyalty?

Interviewer. Can you keep a secret?
Applicant. Yes.
Interviewer. Right, your are in. Start Monday.
Applicant. What will my duties be?
Interviewer. Can't tell you, its secret.

Reg:  If you want to join us, you've got to really hate the Romans.
Brian:  I do!
Reg:  How much?
Brian:  A lot.
(pause)
Reg:  All right, you're in.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Laurel on March 10, 2013, 10:33:20 PM
Interviewer. Can you keep a secret?
Applicant. Yes.
Interviewer. Right, your are in. Start Monday.
Applicant. What will my duties be?
Interviewer. Can't tell you, its secret.

I used to have a poster expressing a similar sentiment on the wall of my office when I was in the Air Force.

"The secrecy of my job prevents me from knowing what I am doing"
As Colonel Flagg on M*A*S*H once said, "Nobody can get the truth out of me because even I don't know what it is. I keep myself in a constant state of utter confusion."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 10, 2013, 11:39:57 PM
Oh, that's an interesting thought--an entire death squad of Colonel Flaggs.  There would be no survivors--of the death squad.  They'd all start killing each other!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Tedward on March 11, 2013, 04:30:51 AM
On top of that how do you enforce the rule using squad 1. Squad 2 will obviously be concentrating on squad 1 and will not know what they are protecting and there might be a standby squad three to cover for sick leave and family emergencies, holidays etc. Apart from when squads trail them they keep going to this place with rockets, they might start to think about it.

But, in this day and age you send an e mail. Seminars still go on, they will never go away? So, 400,000 to get through and replace those that will not play ball before the day of e mails.

Couple of seminars, how many people can you get in a decent sized room? Maybe more than a few seminars then, and have to start earlier to get through 4000 events, OK, silly idea really but your squad number one has to get through 400,000 people to tell them to keep mum. (Keep mum, phrase in the UK for keeping quiet, used else where?).

Seminars bit silly as well. So smaller numbers, your squad has to get through 400,000 in moody lighted underground car parks and so on, so 365 days in a year, how many years before this event do they have to start? Slowly and they need less in squad 1, lot in squad 1 and they can get through it quickly. Increasing the numbers in Squad 1 increases the chances of letting the cat out the bag.....

In that screening you find someone who is not going to play ball or does not sit right, what do you do?

Interviewer 1. What do you reckon?
Interviewer 2. He has changed sides already.
Interviewer 2. And he looks shifty.

Sorry, my mind wanders at times ;)

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on March 11, 2013, 09:21:52 AM
Remember cosmored/rocky/davidc/Scott, etc.?  His latest is to post trollish first posts on random internet boards and then claim censorship when they either don't allow the post or ban him shortly afterward. (links to the bragging posts on the few forums that haven't yet banned him)  Careful with the Spurstalk links as some of the other posters are rather trollish as well.  Some content is NSFW.

Here's where he braggs about making a post on a Mythbusters fan site insulting the mythbusters
http://www.politicalforum.com/moon-landing/190138-apollo-moon-missions-were-faked-studio-41.html#post1062380233

Here's where he tried it on an astronomy forum
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201736&page=14&p=6372351&viewfull=1#post6372351

Here he got banned from militaryphotos.net after a single post.  His first post had multiple youtube videos and their forum automatically made them all playable instead of links.  Consequently, in one post he was crashing their forum.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201736&page=14&p=6381991&viewfull=1#post6381991

Sadly he still doesn't realize that he is not being banned for content but rather his actions.  He doesn't think he looks like a troll.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 11, 2013, 01:15:43 PM
No; he's one of the few people where I assume there is some mental health issue involved.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 11, 2013, 01:22:00 PM
Sadly he still doesn't realize that he is not being banned for content but rather his actions.  He doesn't think he looks like a troll.

Yeah he's like showing up to a party and peeing in the punchbowl while singing.  When they kick you out, it's not because they don't like your singing.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 11, 2013, 01:25:30 PM
No; he's one of the few people where I assume there is some mental health issue involved.

Likewise.  I hate mentioning that because I share the same sensitivity to those accusations as you do.  But he's one of the only three people I've encountered over the past decade whom I suspect of a legitimate mental health problem.
Title: Re: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on March 11, 2013, 02:09:23 PM
No; he's one of the few people where I assume there is some mental health issue involved.

Likewise.  I hate mentioning that because I share the same sensitivity to those accusations as you do.  But he's one of the only three people I've encountered over the past decade whom I suspect of a legitimate mental health problem.

Who are the others?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 11, 2013, 02:28:18 PM
I'm certain Nancy Lieder has something wrong.  This is because I know she has done things in life that are symptoms of mental illness, not just said crazy things on the internet.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on March 11, 2013, 04:02:46 PM
No; he's one of the few people where I assume there is some mental health issue involved.

Likewise.  I hate mentioning that because I share the same sensitivity to those accusations as you do.  But he's one of the only three people I've encountered over the past decade whom I suspect of a legitimate mental health problem.

Who are the others?
Gotta be DavidC/Scott/Fatfreddy88 Etc. That dude is such a loon.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on March 11, 2013, 04:48:08 PM
No; he's one of the few people where I assume there is some mental health issue involved.

Likewise.  I hate mentioning that because I share the same sensitivity to those accusations as you do.  But he's one of the only three people I've encountered over the past decade whom I suspect of a legitimate mental health problem.

Who are the others?
Gotta be DavidC/Scott/Fatfreddy88 Etc. That dude is such a loon.

That kind of language really doesn't help.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 11, 2013, 05:31:16 PM
Gotta be DavidC/Scott/Fatfreddy88 Etc. That dude is such a loon.

We already discussed him.  And I agree--"loon" is not the term I'd prefer.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: carpediem on March 11, 2013, 05:37:09 PM
No; he's one of the few people where I assume there is some mental health issue involved.

Likewise.  I hate mentioning that because I share the same sensitivity to those accusations as you do.  But he's one of the only three people I've encountered over the past decade whom I suspect of a legitimate mental health problem.

Who are the others?
Gotta be DavidC/Scott/Fatfreddy88 Etc. That dude is such a loon.
I'm pretty sure he only counts as one person though.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on March 11, 2013, 08:54:52 PM
I'm repeating myself, I know, but I don't believe it's really possible to diagnose mental illness over the internet.

There are people I know personally who have very odd beliefs, are extremely distrustful of any government entity, and are just plain assholes*; none of them have mental health issues. I have to believe, too, that some of the trolls are just playing a part.

So, IMHO, labeling someone as mentally ill is just extremely speculative - as well as insulting to people who actually have mental health issues.

Just my $0.02 - ignore as necessary.


* Also rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists.   ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on March 11, 2013, 11:47:30 PM
What a great movie.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 12, 2013, 12:26:46 AM
So, IMHO, labeling someone as mentally ill is just extremely speculative - as well as insulting to people who actually have mental health issues.

As it happens, I have mental health issues.  It's one of the reasons I'm so irritated at the knee-jerk assumption that all these people are mentally ill.  It's why in one case, it's action I knew the person took offline that convinced me of her mental illness.  However, I do honestly believe that certain online behaviour can show a strong indicator.  I don't believe most of it does.  Most of them are just idiots or jerks or trolls or whatever.  However, when you have someone who really does appear to literally and sincerely believe that everyone who disagrees with him is a paid NASA stooge, that does lead to certain presumptions.

But what do I know?  I also hated Blazing Saddles, the one time I bothered with it.  The only Mel Brooks movie I've ever actually liked was The Producers.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on March 12, 2013, 01:20:59 AM
I liked it well enough, though I liked Young Frankenstein better, I think.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ineluki on March 12, 2013, 11:07:59 AM
There are people I know personally who have very odd beliefs, are extremely distrustful of any government entity, and are just plain assholes*; none of them have mental health issues. I have to believe, too, that some of the trolls are just playing a part.

I know I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone, not even in the real world, but...

I have some doubt if someone who spends so much time and effort in his crusade like Dr. Socks is merely a trolling Ass.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 12, 2013, 01:19:23 PM
I have some doubt if someone who spends so much time and effort in his crusade like Dr. Socks is merely a trolling Ass.

Whereas I have no doubt that that's all he is.  Everyone has hobbies, after all, and I don't think this one takes as much effort as other, more "normal" hobbies I've seen.  It's weird, I grant you, but he's in my "just a jerk" category.  I believe that he's discovered that he likes making people angry, and the internet has provided him with an easy way of doing that.  One with essentially no consequences to him.  From what I know, it doesn't take much effort to do what he does, not really.  Time, yes, but not substantially more time than we spend just discussing things.  He gets a rise out of people and plays his little games, and that's all it takes.  Heck, there are probably people here who put more effort into research than he puts into coming up with new personalities.  Especially since he doesn't seem to put all that much effort into them.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 12, 2013, 04:58:45 PM
And at CQ theloniusmonkey is doing the very Patrick-like thing of trying to recover from yet another colossal failure of understanding.  As is typical of him, he claims the thing he screwed up was something he "knew all along," but had just momentarily forgotten.  And he's trying to pump CQ members for more details -- "I welcome additional comments."  He has also tried a tortuous tap-dancing reformulation of basic concepts to bolster the idea that he is still "somehow" correct -- "well if you look at it this one way, heat is ... kind of ... energy."  Doesn't fix his problem, which is that energy is not universally heat.  And finally his latest post is that typical wall-o-text that basically just regurgitates stuff he's frantically Googled for, in a conversational homespun fashion, as if to say "See, I really kinda know what I'm talking about."

It's so hilarious to think that he doesn't realize everyone can tell it's him.  He sucks at creating new characters.  They all try to save face the same way.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on March 12, 2013, 06:21:35 PM
I have some doubt if someone who spends so much time and effort in his crusade like Dr. Socks is merely a trolling Ass.

Whereas I have no doubt that that's all he is.  Everyone has hobbies, after all, and I don't think this one takes as much effort as other, more "normal" hobbies I've seen.  It's weird, I grant you, but he's in my "just a jerk" category.  I believe that he's discovered that he likes making people angry, and the internet has provided him with an easy way of doing that.  One with essentially no consequences to him.  From what I know, it doesn't take much effort to do what he does, not really.  Time, yes, but not substantially more time than we spend just discussing things.  He gets a rise out of people and plays his little games, and that's all it takes.  Heck, there are probably people here who put more effort into research than he puts into coming up with new personalities.  Especially since he doesn't seem to put all that much effort into them.
I disagree. From what I have found out, the guy seems to be going through a real breakdown.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 12, 2013, 06:25:10 PM
I disagree. From what I have found out, the guy seems to be going through a real breakdown.

Offline information, I take it?  And that would change my opinion, too.  However, based solely on what I have seen online, there's nothing clinical involved.  If you have more information, and if it indicates that there's a more serious problem involved, that's more evidence that online information should not be used for a diagnosis!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on March 12, 2013, 06:34:16 PM
I disagree. From what I have found out, the guy seems to be going through a real breakdown.

Offline information, I take it?  And that would change my opinion, too.  However, based solely on what I have seen online, there's nothing clinical involved.  If you have more information, and if it indicates that there's a more serious problem involved, that's more evidence that online information should not be used for a diagnosis!
mmmk, I will take it to PM, rather than blast it publicly. OK by you?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 12, 2013, 07:40:55 PM
Absolutely.  My point was more, "If you know there's something serious going on, that's providing an evaluation with more than just his words on a screen.  Based on solely his words on the screen, I see nothing unusual."  While I have come to the belief based on just words on a screen in a single case, I do think it generally requires more than that.  I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm saying that what you are saying only confirms my broader point.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on March 13, 2013, 03:17:52 AM
Even if someone truly has mental illness, unless it is pertinent to the discussion at hand, I see no reason to bring it up or try ones hand at armchair (desktop?) diagnostic psychiatry. Not only is it generally off topic, it's discourteous to people who actually experience these issues.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: darren r on March 13, 2013, 01:23:57 PM
It's also too easy to use it as a way to dismiss an HB's arguments. They may accuse us of being shills and sheep but we should be better than that.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 13, 2013, 01:32:53 PM
My general belief is that it just isn't relevant.  My mental illness, for example, doesn't influence my own attitudes toward Apollo.  Heck, it's entirely possible that some of these people are mentally ill--but it's depression or something, and it has nothing to do with their attitudes toward Apollo.  Mental illness comes in a wide variety of appearances, and most of them wouldn't cause the things we see here.  To be honest, the only people I believe to be mentally ill with whom we've dealt, I have generally believed to be quite seriously ill, and it has made me regret that there is nothing that can be done for them.

This is my real problem with the speculation about about mental illness and conspiracy theorists.  It is seldom from a place of compassion.  It's usually mockery.  It's usually a reason to dismiss outright anything they say, as if the mentally ill never say anything of value.  And if they do remember that I am mentally ill, I'm not supposed to take it personally, because I'm not one of those people.  Certainly true, but it's not because I'm bipolar and they're something else, not that most of the people speculating even know enough to know what illness they're speculating about.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on March 13, 2013, 02:14:39 PM
It's also too easy to use it as a way to dismiss an HB's arguments. They may accuse us of being shills and sheep but we should be better than that.
Yes, this basic premise guides my words when it comes to dealing with conspiracy theorists. The truth does not need insults to support it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: stutefish on March 13, 2013, 08:11:17 PM
Is it just me, or has "Peter May" fired up a sock puppet to participate in his new thread on JREF?
Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Sus_pilot on March 13, 2013, 10:35:27 PM
What's the thread?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: stutefish on March 13, 2013, 10:46:22 PM
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=254816
Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Sus_pilot on March 13, 2013, 11:12:18 PM
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=254816
Thanks.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on March 14, 2013, 02:42:20 AM
I have been oscillating between "is" or "isn't" an incarnation of Dr. Socks for some time. PM stridently assures me he is not so. I shall watch developments with interest.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gwiz on March 14, 2013, 07:13:44 AM
It's him.  He used "PeterMaytheJaySlayer" on the Economist forum Armstrong obit thread.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 14, 2013, 11:41:40 AM
It's him.  He used "PeterMaytheJaySlayer" on the Economist forum Armstrong obit thread.
True, but I always thought he was just co-opting that.  I never got the strong feeling Peter May was a sock.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on March 14, 2013, 02:19:37 PM
Here we find our old pal Heiwa surrounded by less intellectually demanding bedfellows failing to comprehend how a Space Shuttle can lift off, or how the fuel tanks are attached:

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=935&start=570 (http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=935&start=570)

He also fails to work out which shuttle mission it is (took me 5 minutes to get through the French site from which his image is sourced - the final shuttle mission is the answer), the mystery payload for which was well documented.

There are some, erm, 'interesting' viewpoints to be had on that sub-forum and a couple of Apollo threads, as well as on the rest of the site. Those on blood pressure medication had best avoid.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 14, 2013, 03:02:45 PM
Man, is he the "magic bolt" fellow?  I saw that around Godlike.  Never responded when I did a first approximation that said a half-inch bolt of ordinary steel fell within the lower limit of required strength.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 14, 2013, 04:31:47 PM
Man, is he the "magic bolt" fellow?  I saw that around Godlike.  Never responded when I did a first approximation that said a half-inch bolt of ordinary steel fell within the lower limit of required strength.

Was that the argument that the truss sag wouldn't have pulled the perimeter columns out of true because the truss seat bolts would have sheared first?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 14, 2013, 04:37:29 PM
Naw, this was shuttle related.  That according to him, the orbiter stack was held together by one bolt, which he figured must be made of Unobtanium.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on March 14, 2013, 04:57:05 PM
Hugh Fueltank - didn't he play Right Field for the Rangers?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 14, 2013, 05:05:28 PM
Naw, this was shuttle related.  That according to him, the orbiter stack was held together by one bolt, which he figured must be made of Unobtanium.

Bwahahahaha!  :P
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on March 14, 2013, 05:51:50 PM
You have to admit though it does look weird how the orbiter kept attached to its stack.

Of course, the key thing about Dunning-Kruger is that when faced with such an oddity in the universe, you assume it's the universe that is wrong, rather than your own understanding.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on March 14, 2013, 07:05:32 PM
Here we find our old pal Heiwa surrounded by less intellectually demanding bedfellows failing to comprehend how a Space Shuttle can lift off, or how the fuel tanks are attached:

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=935&start=570 (http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=935&start=570)

He also fails to work out which shuttle mission it is (took me 5 minutes to get through the French site from which his image is sourced - the final shuttle mission is the answer), the mystery payload for which was well documented.

There are some, erm, 'interesting' viewpoints to be had on that sub-forum and a couple of Apollo threads, as well as on the rest of the site. Those on blood pressure medication had best avoid.

Good heavens! I have just read through some of the stuff on that link. The level of ignorance is unbelievable.

Does this guy really believe that one bolt at the nose is all that holds the fuel tank and the orbiter together? Can he not see the attachment points at the base of the fuel tank.

I've heard of suspension of disbelief, but this is ridiculous!!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on March 14, 2013, 07:19:48 PM
Grows has form on being ignorant on the most basic things and failing to understand that maybe - just maybe - he should go away a learn a little more before making such audacious pronouncements.

He had the temerity to state he didn't know how transposition and docking was done and that therefore meant it was all a fake.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Chew on March 14, 2013, 07:45:30 PM
He had the temerity to state he didn't know how transposition and docking was done and that therefore meant it was all a fake.

Correction: he didn't even know transposition and docking existed before saying it was all hoaxed because at launch the LM was below the CSM and then after launch it was above the CSM.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: darren r on March 14, 2013, 08:27:17 PM
Looking through the other topics on that site, it appears that Heiwa has found a home among like-minded people. They seem to believe that virtually everything, ever, was faked or hoaxed.

Honestly, what would be the point?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on March 14, 2013, 08:57:30 PM
Looking through the other topics on that site, it appears that Heiwa has found a home among like-minded people. They seem to believe that virtually everything, ever, was faked or hoaxed.

Honestly, what would be the point?

Well, I guess if you believe "The Matrix" is real, then everything really is fake, isn't it, and we spend our entire lives impersonating a battery!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Peter B on March 14, 2013, 11:41:32 PM
Here we find our old pal Heiwa surrounded by less intellectually demanding bedfellows failing to comprehend how a Space Shuttle can lift off, or how the fuel tanks are attached:

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=935&start=570 (http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=935&start=570)

He also fails to work out which shuttle mission it is (took me 5 minutes to get through the French site from which his image is sourced - the final shuttle mission is the answer), the mystery payload for which was well documented.

There are some, erm, 'interesting' viewpoints to be had on that sub-forum and a couple of Apollo threads, as well as on the rest of the site. Those on blood pressure medication had best avoid.

Good heavens! I have just read through some of the stuff on that link. The level of ignorance is unbelievable.

Does this guy really believe that one bolt at the nose is all that holds the fuel tank and the orbiter together? Can he not see the attachment points at the base of the fuel tank.

I've heard of suspension of disbelief, but this is ridiculous!!

There's something a little strange about making a claim (the one bolt) when the very picture used to substantiate the claim actually contradicts it. It's sort of like the people who use a fake photo to try to prove something is real. *

It's also all been added to the "space travel is impossible" page on his website.

* Several years ago someone forwarded a photo to an email list of a Los Angeles freeway with ten lanes each way passing through a picturesque valley, all 20 lanes packed with cars, a thick cloud of smog above. The person posting the photo used it as the basis for making a comment about how bad LA traffic was. The problem was that the photo was clearly a Photoshop invention - identical cars were in multiple lanes, buildings didn't cast shadows while the cars did, and distant objects were too dark. Despite this the poster defended the photo saying it was indicative of the reality of LA traffic, to which my response was that a real photo would do just fine. What was oddest of all was that the email list in question was one for skeptics, and the person who defended the photo was a member of the Australian Skeptics.

ETA: Here's a link to the picture - http://www.chasingcleanair.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/07/05/los_angeles_traffic_july_2008_2.jpg
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 15, 2013, 12:29:48 AM
I can't even begin to count the ways that it looks fake to me, some of which are because I know the area so well.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 15, 2013, 01:16:56 AM
And Heiwa's last post -- he STILL doesn't understand how a rocket works.  Yes, dear; they have to "flop around" in order to slow down.  Slept through the 1940's, eh?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Peter B on March 15, 2013, 01:53:20 AM
I can't even begin to count the ways that it looks fake to me, some of which are because I know the area so well.
I was astonished that a skeptic would consider it acceptable to use something fake to prove something was real. I mean, it'd be exactly like using a faked picture of an Apollo mission to help prove that Apollo was real.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Peter B on March 15, 2013, 01:57:21 AM
And Heiwa's last post -- he STILL doesn't understand how a rocket works.  Yes, dear; they have to "flop around" in order to slow down.  Slept through the 1940's, eh?
To be fair, he talks about *flopping* around in the context of *turning* around. But yes, an almost complete lack of understanding that direction of travel and direction of thrust are completely unrelated. He must have picked up his understanding of rockets from watching rockets in movies (where the engines are always firing and the rocket always travels in the direction it's pointing).
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 15, 2013, 02:07:18 AM
I was astonished that a skeptic would consider it acceptable to use something fake to prove something was real. I mean, it'd be exactly like using a faked picture of an Apollo mission to help prove that Apollo was real.

Actually, that's one of the things that looks fake to me.  The traffic is so bad in both directions.  That is seldom true, even in LA.  Traffic in LA is bad (though the air quality is a heck of a lot better than it was when I was a kid), but it isn't that bad, especially in a location like that one.  What's more, public transit there is improving, meaning traffic is, too.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on March 15, 2013, 03:20:18 AM
And Heiwa's last post -- he STILL doesn't understand how a rocket works.  Yes, dear; they have to "flop around" in order to slow down.  Slept through the 1940's, eh?
To be fair, he talks about *flopping* around in the context of *turning* around. But yes, an almost complete lack of understanding that direction of travel and direction of thrust are completely unrelated. He must have picked up his understanding of rockets from watching rockets in movies (where the engines are always firing and the rocket always travels in the direction it's pointing).

To be completely fair, I actually think he's talking about the crew positions.

To be completely unfair, he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, and a 3 second google will show numerous videos of the crew (in a bizarre logical twist) actually facing their instrumentation panels and facing the direction of travel. Are the 'g', 'o', 'l' and 'e' keys completely missing from the keyboards of these people?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DataCable on March 15, 2013, 08:27:28 AM
The problem was that the photo was clearly a Photoshop invention - identical cars were in multiple lanes, buildings didn't cast shadows while the cars did, and distant objects were too dark.
The one that gets me is the cars on the right side in the shadow of the overpass casting their own darker shadows.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: armillary on March 15, 2013, 08:47:30 AM
I considered setting up an account on CF and inserting some sorely-needed facts, but I don't feel argumentative enough. 'sides, any bets on how long the account would last?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on March 15, 2013, 08:48:20 AM
And Heiwa's last post -- he STILL doesn't understand how a rocket works.  Yes, dear; they have to "flop around" in order to slow down.  Slept through the 1940's, eh?
To be fair, he talks about *flopping* around in the context of *turning* around. But yes, an almost complete lack of understanding that direction of travel and direction of thrust are completely unrelated. He must have picked up his understanding of rockets from watching rockets in movies (where the engines are always firing and the rocket always travels in the direction it's pointing).

To be completely fair, I actually think he's talking about the crew positions.

To be completely unfair, he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, and a 3 second google will show numerous videos of the crew (in a bizarre logical twist) actually facing their instrumentation panels and facing the direction of travel. Are the 'g', 'o', 'l' and 'e' keys completely missing from the keyboards of these people?

I posted my reply to this before I started work this morning. Once I started work I had a chance to google the answer properly ;) :D

I now get what he, and gillianren and Peter B all mean, so my comment above isn't what was meant at all.

While there are cockpit re-entry videos, I doubt they would reveal what he is hoping to reveal.

This page told me what I needed to know:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/space-shuttle7.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/space-shuttle7.htm)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ineluki on March 15, 2013, 09:31:46 AM
He must have picked up his understanding of rockets from watching rockets in movies

I think anyone who ever played Space Wars has a better understanding of rocketry than him...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DataCable on March 15, 2013, 09:45:35 AM
Anyone who ever played with a toy parachute as a child has a better understanding of atmospheric drag than him.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on March 15, 2013, 12:30:51 PM
You have to admit though it does look weird how the orbiter kept attached to its stack.
Much of the weirdness goes away when you remember that any space launcher ready to go has nearly all of its mass in propellant, and the space shuttle orbiter carried hardly any propellant. The tank was 760 tonnes, each SRB was 590 tonnes, and the orbiter was only 109 tonnes.

Quote
Of course, the key thing about Dunning-Kruger is that when faced with such an oddity in the universe, you assume it's the universe that is wrong, rather than your own understanding.
Absolutely. Mere ignorance does not qualify one for Dunning-Kruger; most people are ignorant of nearly all specialized knowledge. Hell, I'm thoroughly ignorant about brain surgery (if not rocket science). But at least I know I'm thoroughly ignorant about brain surgery.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 15, 2013, 02:37:05 PM
Mmm Space Wars.  Possibly the earliest video game ever (depends on how you count).  They had one of the rare consoles at the Silver Ball up on Telegraph Ave.  I used to log in solo on the dual-player machine and mess around circularizing orbits and playing slingshot by shooting near the sun.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 15, 2013, 02:56:54 PM
I'm fascinated by the puzzle of how you can know that you don't know that you don't know.

The only rule of thumb I've came up with so far is that human activities are COMPLICATED.  If people have been doing it for more than a week, then there is more to it than appears at first glance.  If there exist people with a recognized expertise, then seek them out -- particularly before you do anything that could get you hurt.

But that just brings us up to the same problem.  I was just having a conversation on some prop-making forums about CO2 effects.  It seems very simple.  Take CO2 tanks and valves, which work perfectly well when used as designed, but don't produce that nice white smoke.  Turn the tank upside down so it siphons.  Now the same tank and valve produce that lovely "fire extinguisher" cloud.  And at some random moment, a valve or bit of line shatters under 500x expansion and gives you a serious injury!

Since I work in theater, I am frequently around people who are dealing with electricity, rigging, but even simple levers in ways they haven't realized could cause injury.  What they don't know they don't know can still hurt them.  They don't know enough to know when they've left the domain of "My knowledge is sufficient/my ignorance is harmless" and entered the domain of "This could kill someone but I don't even realize it is dangerous."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on March 15, 2013, 07:14:14 PM
Mmm Space Wars.  Possibly the earliest video game ever (depends on how you count).  They had one of the rare consoles at the Silver Ball up on Telegraph Ave.  I used to log in solo on the dual-player machine and mess around circularizing orbits and playing slingshot by shooting near the sun.
I would say it was about the earliest not trying to digitize and provide a computer opponent to an existing game (like tic-tac-toe) or provide a simplified simulation of an existing game like Tennis for Two or the later Pong, but actually make something original.
I've played it in online emulators and it's hard, but I can see the appeal.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 16, 2013, 01:28:42 PM
Mmm Space Wars.  Possibly the earliest video game ever (depends on how you count).

I count Computer Space as the first, mostly because we have one in the video game graveyard at work.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on March 16, 2013, 02:39:31 PM
As Donald Rumsfeld said:

"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know."


At the time, this statement was widely lambasted as being terminally stupid and/or incoherent. But I always thought it was quite clear and largely true.

And its lack of understanding by the CT crowd is, IMO, one of the things that makes them CTers.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 16, 2013, 02:47:08 PM
Which is more dangerous; the things you don't know you don't know, or the things you, as Twain put it, know that aren't so?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 18, 2013, 03:32:15 PM
Now Tekeli is edging ever closer to his previous claim that the lunar module batteries wouldn't be able to run the circulating fans and cooling system during the Apollo 13 emergency.  Remember how he got stuck on his inability or unwillingness to compare the battery capacity to the energy consumption of the equipment?  Now he's back in JAQ mode trying to get the same information.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on March 18, 2013, 07:29:24 PM
Cosmored/DavidC/Rocky etc. thinks there is a lot of "good stuff" on cluesforum.info
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487&page=139&p=6425110&viewfull=1#post6425110

Best laugh I've had in days.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 18, 2013, 08:44:08 PM
I sorta want to add "FAQing around" as a new descriptive.  That is, for those hoaxies who act polite and ask all sorts of technical questions not to develop the argument de jour, but to gather up as many science-y words and easy links they can to take to some OTHER forum where they can proceed to dazzle all and sundry with their "expertise."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on March 19, 2013, 03:35:42 AM
Hunchbacked has gotten active on YT again, but his videos these days are really so idiotic that, personally, I get bored even bothering to point out things that should be obvious to even an unschooled viewer.  I'm wondering if it wouldn't be best just to ignore him and see if he gets tired of not getting an argument.

Hell, just pointing out how wrong he is shouldn't even be considered an argument.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on March 19, 2013, 07:14:46 AM
Now Tekeli is edging ever closer to his previous claim that the lunar module batteries wouldn't be able to run the circulating fans and cooling system during the Apollo 13 emergency.
Well, it was a pretty close call...

My understanding is that they got Aquarius' average power consumption down to a few hundred watts. The pre-J-mission LMs had four 400 Ah batteries in the descent stage and two 296 Ah batteries in the ascent stage for a total of 2192 Ah @ 30V, or about 66 kWh.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on March 19, 2013, 09:19:55 AM
I'm fascinated by the puzzle of how you can know that you don't know that you don't know.

Thankfully for most of us, it comes from the experience of failures of our imaginations to understand limits in which no one is hurt.  Nothing like practice at breaking things to make you take a second (or third) thought.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on March 19, 2013, 09:27:33 AM
As Donald Rumsfeld said:

"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know."


At the time, this statement was widely lambasted as being terminally stupid and/or incoherent. But I always thought it was quite clear and largely true.

And its lack of understanding by the CT crowd is, IMO, one of the things that makes them CTers.

There is an article in Slate (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/low_concept/2003/04/the_poetry_of_dh_rumsfeld.html), from the end of the Rumsfeld era at DOD that gathered several of his statements like this and presented them as poetry.  It actually worked pretty well because of the odd rhythms that were characteristic of his off the cuff speech. 

Quote
Glass Box
You know, it's the old glass box at the—
At the gas station,
Where you're using those little things
Trying to pick up the prize,
And you can't find it.
It's—

And it's all these arms are going down in there,
And so you keep dropping it
And picking it up again and moving it,
But—

Some of you are probably too young to remember those—
Those glass boxes,
But—

But they used to have them
At all the gas stations
When I was a kid.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 19, 2013, 02:06:37 PM
And now I'm thinking of Feynman's story; the one that ends,

"Mm-hr mm-hr, mm-hr mm-hr.  Mm-hr mr-hr mm-hr mm-hr!"
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 19, 2013, 03:28:30 PM
Well, it was a pretty close call...

My understanding is that they got Aquarius' average power consumption down to a few hundred watts. The pre-J-mission LMs had four 400 Ah batteries in the descent stage and two 296 Ah batteries in the ascent stage for a total of 2192 Ah @ 30V, or about 66 kWh.

All consumers tolled, yes.  But keep in mind that they were so conservative with the LM batteries that they were able to jumper them up to the descent batteries to allow for a more reliable CM startup.  They had a margin.  But if you isolate the ECS and look at just its consumption over time, it consumes only a fraction of the total LM power load, and a smaller fraction of the battery capacity.  Tekeli's ignorant claim was that just the cooling system alone would have depleted the batteries in just a few short hours.

He's getting hilarious now in his stealth "just asking questions" thread.  He's now trying to say that the "crucial" thermal design figures (i.e., stuff he pulled out of his orifice) are "suspiciously" missing from NASA documentation, but without overtly crying hoax.  You can almost hear him crying desperately for someone to do the math for him so he can apply his HVAC googleage to Apollo and pretend he's "computed" that the LM ECS wasn't efficient enough to be credible.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on March 19, 2013, 05:28:01 PM
But keep in mind that they were so conservative with the LM batteries that they were able to jumper them up to the descent batteries to allow for a more reliable CM startup.  They had a margin.
You mean  they were able to use the LM batteries (both ascent and descent) to top off the entry batteries in the command module Odyssey. They did this through the umbilical that's normally used to save the LM's batteries with power from the CSM's fuel cells during the outbound trip.

Quote
But if you isolate the ECS and look at just its consumption over time, it consumes only a fraction of the total LM power load, and a smaller fraction of the battery capacity.
Really? There wasn't much left on in Aquarius besides the ECS and communications. The computer and platform were shut off for most of the trip back to earth. There was even a contingency plan to operate communications part time to leave more battery energy for the ECS, but it turned out to be unnecessary.  The limiting consumable was water, not battery energy, which I've always thought ironic because the water was needed for cooling yet the crew shivered in the cold much of the time.

I have wondered how low we could get the LM's power consumption with today's technology.  With modern electronics in the computers, IMU and communications there wouldn't be much left of a load left but the ECS, mainly its coolant pumps and air fans.


Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 19, 2013, 05:59:25 PM
Actually that's right, the back-of-the-envelope computation we did was only for the fans ... for some reason.  I misremembered it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on March 19, 2013, 07:02:25 PM
I've perused a lot of Apollo documentation on NTRS but I've not been able to find a nominal power budget for the LM. (Ah ha! That proves it must have been a hoax!)

Do you know where I might find one?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 21, 2013, 12:38:01 PM
And Cosmoquest bans (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?30979-Suspended-banned-posters-log&p=2117424#post2117424) another Patrick Tekeli sock puppet ("theloniusmonkey").
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 21, 2013, 12:43:12 PM
I've perused a lot of Apollo documentation on NTRS but I've not been able to find a nominal power budget for the LM. (Ah ha! That proves it must have been a hoax!)

Do you know where I might find one?

I'm thinking it was either in one of the Mission Reports or in Biomedical Results (odd, I know, but wow).  And now that NTRS is offline indefinitely... :(
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 21, 2013, 01:30:38 PM
I was already bored with him.  You'd think with a forum name like that, he could play on more than one note.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on March 21, 2013, 01:40:26 PM
Bah.  I didn't get a chance to see and respond to his ridiculous assertion that the human body is like an automobile radiator.

Here's how you make it a better comparison; wait until your car overheats, then prop the hood wide open and pour a bucket of water over the radiator.  NOW you have the proper evaporation and radiation going on.  Or does he really think that humans are cooled entirely by convective losses?  What the heck does he think sweat is?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on March 21, 2013, 01:55:16 PM
Bah.  I didn't get a chance to see and respond to his ridiculous assertion that the human body is like an automobile radiator.

Here's how you make it a better comparison; wait until your car overheats, then prop the hood wide open and pour a bucket of water over the radiator.  NOW you have the proper evaporation and radiation going on.  Or does he really think that humans are cooled entirely by convective losses?  What the heck does he think sweat is?

You really don't want to get into the time-suckage of Tekeli's absurd misconceptions.  Aside from speculation about how many screws he's got loose, the guy clearly just doesn't understand how a large portion of the universe works.  While he seems to have gargantuan amounts of free time to Google and write lengthy tomes, once he gets a misconcept in his head, he will absolutely not let go of it.  And his face-saving gyrations make it impossible to have any meaningful dialogue with him.  Now frost all of that with a liberal dose of sheer arrogance, sprinkled with a down-home, "I know some of you may be new at this, so I'll be annoyingly pedantic about backpedaling from my latest egregious and obvious [expletive]-up."

If he's going to rely on sock puppets, he needs to learn how to craft a more convincing character.  He's a one-trick pony.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Not Myself on March 21, 2013, 02:40:02 PM
You really don't want to get into the time-suckage of Tekeli's absurd misconceptions.

The whole theme of the board is getting into the time-suckage of absurd misconceptions!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DataCable on March 21, 2013, 02:48:47 PM
You really don't want to get into the time-suckage of Tekeli's absurd misconceptions.
From what I've seen, his absurd misconceptions involve a great many varieties of suckage.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on March 22, 2013, 09:06:04 PM
He's a one-trick pony.

He knows a trick?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on March 22, 2013, 10:51:40 PM
With the knowledge of telescopes that theloniusmonkey has demonstrated, I doubt that he has ever even looked through one.

Why would a prospective telescope buyer travel all the way to Mauna Kea from the mainland to check out a scope with all of the historic sites in California,  Nevada,  and New Mexico,  with seeing almost as good for testing purposes?

It looks like this post struck a nerve with theloniousmonkey. I recieved this pm from him on Cosmoquest, which I unfortunately did not discover until after he was banned there:


Your posting about me at Apollohoax.net

    Hi there AtomicDog. I just sent this message to Daggerstab;


    "A friend of mine showed me your post on Apollohoax.net this morning explicitly referencing me and my posting here. I just wanted to call you a coward to your your face. Where do you get off posting about me on this private forum of you and your buddies? If you have something slanderous to say about me publicly, please do so right here on cosmoquest so that I may defend myself. Good day to you. I know they won't, but I hope they kick you off this forum. You deserve it creep."

    So my same sentiments to you as well. I would have composed a personal message for you but you don't really deserve it. I guess you are a big telescope expert and know everything about Mauna Kea, its latitude and why most amateurs are drawn to going there?

    I did write a general post on Cosmoquest lettling everyone know what a creep you are. Don't suspect it'll get you kicked off , but it should.




With his wall-of-text style of posting, I must have missed any specific reference to me. My loss, I guess.

Theloniusmonkey, if you are reading this, I just have to say:

Fancy a sockpuppet calling me a coward. I've been an amaetur astronomer for over 44 years. I got my first telescope in 1968, and I've forgotten more about astronomy than you will ever know. The next time you sneak back onto this forum, theloniousmonkey/fattydash/Patrick1000Tekeli, I look forward to telling this to your face, you fraud.

Thanks, all, for letting me get that off my chest.
Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Sus_pilot on March 22, 2013, 11:53:49 PM
^^^ Outstanding!!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: slang on March 23, 2013, 06:26:37 AM
And Cosmoquest bans (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?30979-Suspended-banned-posters-log&p=2117424#post2117424) another Patrick Tekeli sock puppet ("theloniusmonkey").

Took a while to get consensus this time. And already it seems another is in the works, but I doubt this one will see daylight.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on March 24, 2013, 11:12:07 PM
Predictably as night follows day, Patrick Tekeli gets booted again off one forum, and sets up yet another laughably transparent sock-puppet ("DaylightSavingsTime") on another (JREF again).  He'll probably try again here after getting kicked off there. 

Patrick, for someone who gets so much practice lying, you're a terrible liar.  You're as bad at lying as you are at engineering and writing.  That's pitiful.  Do you just need attention so badly that getting people to point and laugh at you is good enough?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on March 24, 2013, 11:45:46 PM
Meh. It's amusing to see, in a way, for a while. Then it gets boring.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on March 25, 2013, 05:03:09 AM
He's hardly even trying to hide it any more.

He does raise an interesting question (and I know he's only raising it because he thinks no-one has looked at it and it's some sort of chink in the armour). How much water is likely to have been deposited on the lunar surface as a direct result of LM exhaust gas?

I know the chemical reaction, but I'm not enough of a chemist to work out quantities. I would imagine most of any water deposited in this way would immediately sublimate? I've asked him the same question - I don't expect an answer. Unless there's poop involved.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on March 25, 2013, 05:22:04 AM
I can work out the quantities of each of the exhaust products, if that's what you want. How much would go into the lunar surface and stay there, I don't know.

Several ALSEPs had instruments that could detect the various particles. Some easily detected the water vapor from the PLSS sublimators. I suppose they would also give a clue as to how quickly the temporary atmosphere from the LM ascent stages dissipated.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on March 25, 2013, 05:54:09 AM
That would be interesting! He is claiming that "tons" of water would be deposited in each mission by the exhaust. I'm sure tons would be produced, but I would doubt that much of that would reach the surface, or that much of it would remain in situ long enough for it to be on rocks during collection.

You can see the effect of the exhaust gas in the landing videos. If it is carrying the dust away, then the exhaust gas and its attendant water load is surely long gone too?

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on March 25, 2013, 07:22:11 AM
I would certainly think so, especially since the exhaust gas (and probably its entrained particles) are going at greater than lunar escape velocity (2.38 km/s).
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: cjameshuff on March 25, 2013, 08:19:28 AM
Also, any deposits it left would be in the form of a sparse collection of molecules adhering to the surface, and would likely be dismissed as terrestrial contamination anyway.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on March 25, 2013, 08:35:14 AM
Also, any deposits it left would be in the form of a sparse collection of molecules adhering to the surface, and would likely be dismissed as terrestrial contamination anyway.

Indeed - it would surely have been impossible to tell the difference between terrestrial contamination acquired on the moon and that acquired in transit to, or handling by, the lunar materials receiving lab. Water was found in a number of samples, and dismissed as exactly that. Even my National Geographic issue covering Apollo 17 mentions it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on March 25, 2013, 09:13:27 AM
I thought the sample boxes were sealed under vacuum and opened under dry nitrogen. If water was present in the samples, I wonder where it came from:

1. Actually present in the lunar regolith, maybe formed by a reaction with the solar wind
2. Deposited there by the LM descent engine
3. Deposited by the PLSSes
4. Contamination after collection aboard the LM/CSM
5. Contamination after return to earth
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on March 25, 2013, 10:04:47 AM
While I was squinting around this morning on this subject I did see a couple of references pointing to incomplete seals of some of the sample boxes - according to this new scientist article, all of them had some level of breach:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18629-apollo-rocks-dusted-off-to-find-new-evidence-of-water.html (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18629-apollo-rocks-dusted-off-to-find-new-evidence-of-water.html)

Water already present in the lunar rocks is identifiable by its isotopic composition, and its that water that later examination with much better equipment has been able to identify.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on March 25, 2013, 01:19:39 PM
Okay, it took me a minute to figure out what his point is.  It's actually kind of interesting, which has got to be a first for this guy.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on March 25, 2013, 04:39:01 PM
Nomuse already made the point I was going to, namely that the samples were not devoid of water; the minerals in them did not form in the presence of water.  Minerals like marble, opal, jarosite, goethite and most hematites, to name a few, could not form in an anhydrous environment such as the Moon.

Quote
The Apollo samples were never scientifically discussed as being entirely anhydrous. They are extremely dry. That was known then, that is known now. The mineral formation took place without the presence of water, and the history of the samples is without significant water. That was known then, that is known now.

You are inserting an absolute were none exists.

(You are also ascribing a level of stupidity to the actual geologists -- one on the Moon, many more on the ground -- that is hard to believe in. They wouldn't notice the potential for contamination?)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on March 25, 2013, 11:30:53 PM
Fatfreddy88 has shown up on The Straight Dope forum, in his Cosmored guise.

He's in the Pit, where he belongs.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Stout Cortez on March 27, 2013, 01:07:52 PM
And....DaylightSavingsTime is out of there at jref.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on March 27, 2013, 02:38:33 PM
And....DaylightSavingsTime is out of there at jref.
Yep, and he was ejected faster than you can say "Tranquility Base here...".
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on May 17, 2013, 11:44:48 PM
And he's quite obviously back at JREF as HonoluluFilly.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on May 18, 2013, 04:26:18 AM
And he's quite obviously back at JREF as HonoluluFilly.

Yep, and I copped a warning for calling him out as a P1K sockpuppet, in other words, for stating the obvious!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Stout Cortez on May 23, 2013, 10:47:01 AM
I see that "HonoluluFilly" has just been banned at JREF as a Patrick1000 sockpuppet. Odd that it took that long for them to notice what was immediately apparent.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on May 23, 2013, 12:08:29 PM
For one thing,  he has this habit of choosing screen names that consist of two words mashed together,  like. ..like...

Nevermind.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on May 23, 2013, 04:18:54 PM
And he's quite obviously back at JREF as HonoluluFilly.

Yep, and I copped a warning for calling him out as a P1K sockpuppet, in other words, for stating the obvious!

Surprised he hasn't resurfaced here given LO's tolerance level for allowing these things to play out.

IMHO, that warning should be rescinded, but alas, I am not a mod.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on May 23, 2013, 06:02:22 PM
So where does Doctor Socks go between appearances here and at the BAUT/CosmoQ/WhateverTheyCallItTheseDays?  Does he take a few days off to find something else obscure and uninteresting?  Or does he methodically start up a new sock at the next of the dozen boards in his visit list?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on May 24, 2013, 08:04:44 PM
So where does Doctor Socks go between appearances here and at the BAUT/CosmoQ/WhateverTheyCallItTheseDays?  Does he take a few days off to find something else obscure and uninteresting?  Or does he methodically start up a new sock at the next of the dozen boards in his visit list?
The JREF forum.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on June 19, 2013, 12:46:26 AM
Poor Heiwa, just when he thought he'd found a home full of special new friends who liked him, he's immersed in more trouble.

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1632&start=345 (http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1632&start=345)

The special people at Cluesforum are engaged in an exciting debate, in which they escalate the stupidity on a daily basis (something at which they excel), namely their suggestion that rockets don't work in a vacuum. NASA says rockets work in a vacuum, NASA tells lies, therefore rockets don't work in a vacuum. Anyone who says rockets do work in a vacuum is one of those pesky NASA shills promoting a lie to deceive the sheeple.

That would be Heiwa, who is desperately trying to point out to the intellectually deficient that they are wrong, and that the main reason Man couldn't go to the moon is because of his own stupid theory. Oh the irony. He must feel some of the frustration and annoyance we've all felt when trying to point out something blindingly obvious to people who just will not listen.

The thread I linked to above is a psychologist's paradise. Key individuals in a group have adopted a position. The remainder of the group fall behind the leaders and adopt the position. All views that reinforce the adopted ideology are accepted (especially those that have some sort of apparent validity because they use big words and complex arguments), contrary theories are rejected, no matter how logical or simple the argument.

The adopted position spirals way beyond the original premise through a series of escalated arguments and peer pressure, while those who disagree are increasingly marginalised. Like Heiwa. Heiwa currently has the protection of the group leaders because he has made 'important contributions' on the Apollo 'hoax' by producing his own set of big words and complex arguments to validate an illogical position. It will be interesting to see how long it will be before he is turned on and evicted.


It's fascinating.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Tedward on June 19, 2013, 03:57:09 AM
Oh my giddy aunt. I am certainly no rocket scientist but I just started at page one of that thread and I wonder how we managed to leave the trees in the first place. I understand that JREF has this stundie thingy, that thread should be an all time winner.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on June 19, 2013, 05:11:40 AM
Oh my giddy aunt. I am certainly no rocket scientist but I just started at page one of that thread and I wonder how we managed to leave the trees in the first place. I understand that JREF has this stundie thingy, that thread should be an all time winner.

I submitted it, but I don't think a whole thread qualifies.

I have to say, there is enough material there for whole year of stundies?

This one, I have to say, is priceless...

"I think the main point that the posters on this thread (who are more scientifically minded than I) have been making is that the vacuum itself exerts a force of its own that renders nil the force of the mass of gas escaping from a rocket's nozzle.

To use a simple analogy, think of a rocket and its escaping gas as an aerosol can full of silly string. When you press the button on the aerosol can, silly string is ejected at great speed. If there's enough speed, it may exert force on the aerosol can, so that the silly string is moving in one direction, and the can in the other. Newton.

But in a vacuum, the speed of the equalizing force of the vacuum is akin to someone pulling the silly string out of the aerosol can faster than it can be ejected, thus nullifying the force caused by the silly string's ejection.

Of course, the analogy isn't perfect, since pulling the silly string out would actually cause the aerosol can to move in the same direction as the pull. This wouldn't be a factor with gases being pulled into the vacuum."





Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on June 19, 2013, 05:52:35 AM
I just glanced at the last two pages, and I couldn't believe my eyes. Heiwa as the sane one in a discussion?? The mind reels...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Tedward on June 19, 2013, 06:15:34 AM
Not got past page 1. Saving the rest for ron.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on June 19, 2013, 07:22:01 AM
There is a certain appeal to people that will do whatever it takes to get their point across.  But not enough appear, to me, to read much of the thread.  It has more self assured conclusions drawn from compounding on a simple misunderstanding than one can bear. 

Such as a fire hose pushes back on the fireman because of the air.  I wonder then how a jet airplane flies when the small area of thrust from the engine has to push on the air to overcome the much larger push of the air caused by body of the aircraft?  Enquiring minds want to know. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on June 19, 2013, 10:42:11 AM
The thread I linked to above is a psychologist's paradise. Key individuals in a group have adopted a position. The remainder of the group fall behind the leaders and adopt the position. All views that reinforce the adopted ideology are accepted (especially those that have some sort of apparent validity because they use big words and complex arguments), contrary theories are rejected, no matter how logical or simple the argument.

The irony is those who most bandy around the label "sheeple" are themselves most sheeplish.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: darren r on June 19, 2013, 10:43:44 AM
If rockets don't work in a vacuum (and, by extension, no form of propulsion works without gravity and an atmosphere to push against, which is what they are claiming), doesn't that mean artificial satellites must be a fiction? After all, they not only need rockets to put them into space, but also smaller 'rockets' to make attitude and altitude adjustments. So satellite 'phones, TV, communications and GPS are a hoax as well?

My God, where does it end?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on June 19, 2013, 10:47:15 AM
My God, where does it end?

With everyone agreeing that NASA lies about everything.  Even if NASA were to say it was lying. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Valis on June 20, 2013, 04:27:31 AM
Poor Heiwa, just when he thought he'd found a home full of special new friends who liked him, he's immersed in more trouble.

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1632&start=345 (http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1632&start=345)
Pretty crazy, but I'm actually enjoying Heiwa's snippy comments in that thread. I too hope that Heiwa actually learns something from his experience there.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Jason Thompson on June 20, 2013, 07:57:11 AM
Well well, now doesn't almo's answer on this page look familiar?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130619104241AAEOFfX
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on June 21, 2013, 01:35:12 PM
To quote Penny from The Big Bang "Holy crap on a cracker"

http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1632&start=345#p2385792

"If you shoot water horizontally, you will notice it forms and arc.
This is the key to the fight back by the air, because the top of that water arc is the strongest force against the air, meaning the air has to push on it much harder to try and squeeze it to the ground because that water at the very top is moving horizontally and the water going either way from it is gradually falling, so the air compresses it from all around the water jet and tries to equalise it's own pressure... but in doing so, it forces the water both ways, because, as we know...water cannot be compressed but it can be forced away by exerting pressure, meaning one force hits the building or hits a crowd of rioters and the other force pushes the fireman back."

Reading that thread is like how I imagine Victorian era asylums. The complete irony of these people being linked together on the Internet ( a network of computers, all of which were designed by smart people that have a deep understanding of the laws of science) will be lost on them..
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on June 22, 2013, 12:56:51 AM
You know, I am wondering if there should be a critical thinking skills class as part of regular grade school curriculum. It doesn't have to be a science course per sae, it doesn't need to go into over much technical detail, just give the foundations of good thinking skills and how to avoid traps and double-talk.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on June 22, 2013, 08:16:10 PM
You know, I am wondering if there should be a critical thinking skills class as part of regular grade school curriculum. It doesn't have to be a science course per sae, it doesn't need to go into over much technical detail, just give the foundations of good thinking skills and how to avoid traps and double-talk.
Sadly, that can be perverted as well.  There's a YT subscriber who goes by MrReamCHS who is a high school teacher in Indiana (there's a link to his classroom website on his channel) who teaches what he thinks of as critical-thinking skills by..., well, in his own words,

"I show the the evidence the USG has presented as well as primary source evidence as to why there are questions regarding the validity of the official lunar landings. Your opinion of the validity is an example of the argument fallacy refered to below. Students then use their own critical thinking skills, including their knowledge of logical fallacies, to arrive at their own conclusion. Don't worry, though, you "know" what the answer to the official test question is...."


I think there's a reason why he teaches Social Studies rather than Physics or Calculus.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on June 22, 2013, 09:35:56 PM
Are you kidding?  The best teacher I ever had was also, at the time, head of the Social Studies department, and she would have wiped the floor with this guy.  He shouldn't be a teacher, full stop.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on June 23, 2013, 11:57:37 AM
Are you kidding?  The best teacher I ever had was also, at the time, head of the Social Studies department, and she would have wiped the floor with this guy.  He shouldn't be a teacher, full stop.

I totally agree.  From other statements he made to me, he seems to equate 'critical thinking' with 'automatic suspicion'.  He also seems to be a chronic quote-miner;  he pulled out the example of NASA personnel's recent comments about the need for increased radiation protection, while in the best hoaxer tradition totally ignoring the fact that these comments are in the context of long-duration missions.

Just another CT who fancies himself an intellectual.  My concern is the poison he's introducing to still-forming young minds.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on June 23, 2013, 02:14:40 PM
For what it's worth, most kids actually are capable, at least in my experience, in seeing when a teacher is full of crap.  A lot of my classmates liked my high school psychology teacher (I did not!), but they still knew that he wasn't qualified to teach us.  Not least because the book would talk about the damage you can do when you call someone stupid, and he'd turn around and call various of my classmates stupid.  Never me, though; he just called me psychotic.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on June 24, 2013, 08:36:34 PM
I do hope you're right.

It's been a while since we've had a humorous look at the subject; here's a segment from the Brit comedy show "Quite Interesting" on Moon Landing Conspiracies:



They get various facts wrong, but, hey, it's comedy.  You have to love the MJ assassination connection.

That's at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmNz2-IS7gY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmNz2-IS7gY) for those without embedding capability.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on August 09, 2013, 02:35:18 PM
For those who haven't given up completely on Cosmoquest, the perennial link-spammer RockyC (a.k.a. FattyDash etc.) has shown up under one of his habitual nicks Cosmored.  It's the same performance -- he's essentially a proxy for Jarrah White, only with the infuriating aspect of literally disregarding anything coming from someone who doesn't take one of his infamous loyalty litmus tests.  Basically if you don't already believe in the conspiracies and hoaxes he touts, then automatically you're not honest enough to be listened to.  In his case I think he really does believe that he is obviously and inarguably right.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on August 09, 2013, 03:10:52 PM
I thought FattyDash was Dr Tekeli?!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on August 09, 2013, 04:39:21 PM
No, FattyDash is the name Cosmored/RockyC goes by on JREF.  That was never Tekeli.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ajv on August 09, 2013, 05:15:58 PM
I can't keep track of the identities of everyone.

But, the "fattydash" on the proboards incarnation of the ApolloHoax.net forum wasn't the link-spammer, was he? e.g. http://apollohoax.proboards.com/post/91370
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mag40 on August 09, 2013, 05:24:07 PM
No, FattyDash is the name Cosmored/RockyC goes by on JREF.  That was never Tekeli.

His JREF id is Fatfreddy88.......Fattydash was the old apollohoax id of the original Doc Socks Tekeli. These mad fools do get about......but Cosmored is the worst. There are a couple of videos on YT showing the hundreds of forums he's spammed on.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on August 09, 2013, 10:13:27 PM
I can't keep track of the identities of everyone.

But, the "fattydash" on the proboards incarnation of the ApolloHoax.net forum wasn't the link-spammer, was he? e.g. http://apollohoax.proboards.com/post/91370

Just reading the Fattydash thread again is frustrating. I won't miss his complete evasion of critics.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on August 11, 2013, 10:06:52 PM
Whoops, my mistake.  Yes, fattydash was Tekeli.  FatFreddy, aka FatFreddy88, is Cosmored.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on August 11, 2013, 10:23:06 PM
Whoops, my mistake.  Yes, fattydash was Tekeli.  FatFreddy, aka FatFreddy88, is Cosmored.
Those two have had so many sock puppets between them, it's an easy mistake to make.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on August 11, 2013, 10:29:20 PM
No, FattyDash is the name Cosmored/RockyC goes by on JREF.  That was never Tekeli.

His JREF id is Fatfreddy88.......Fattydash was the old apollohoax id of the original Doc Socks Tekeli. These mad fools do get about......but Cosmored is the worst. There are a couple of videos on YT showing the hundreds of forums he's spammed on.
And those videos appropriately use the Monty Python Spam song as background music.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ineluki on August 12, 2013, 09:40:43 AM
Whoops, my mistake.  Yes, fattydash was Tekeli.  FatFreddy, aka FatFreddy88, is Cosmored.
Those two have had so many sock puppets between them, it's an easy mistake to make.

They almost deserve their own entry on clavius:

http://www.clavius.org/bibcast.html - anonymous internet trolls and their sockpuppets

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on August 12, 2013, 04:34:09 PM
Apparently, Doc Socks popped his socks.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sfgate/obituary.aspx?pid=165635040#fbLoggedOut (http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sfgate/obituary.aspx?pid=165635040#fbLoggedOut)

Please do not engage in grave stomping.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on August 12, 2013, 04:44:33 PM
Some have speculated that he has faked his death.  At the very least he appears to have written his own obituary.  I wouldn't put faking it past him but I personally doubt it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on August 12, 2013, 04:57:44 PM
Apparently, Doc Socks popped his socks.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sfgate/obituary.aspx?pid=165635040#fbLoggedOut (http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sfgate/obituary.aspx?pid=165635040#fbLoggedOut)

Please do not engage in grave stomping.
Wow, that's an awfully young age to go. I found his sock puppetry tiresome (though also sometimes a bit funny, as he seemed capable of writing in only one style, no matter what persona he was trying to put on), but I never wished ill upon him.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on August 12, 2013, 05:03:22 PM
Some have speculated that he has faked his death.  At the very least he appears to have written his own obituary.  I wouldn't put faking it past him but I personally doubt it.
I hadn't even consider that possibility; but now that you mention it that obit sure sounds like his writing. That said, unless some good evidence of fakery turns up I'm going to assume it's legit.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: darren r on August 12, 2013, 05:17:38 PM
Wasn't there some evidence that Dr Socks was someone else, using this man's identity, qualifications and achievements?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on August 12, 2013, 05:29:56 PM
Some have speculated that he has faked his death.  At the very least he appears to have written his own obituary.  I wouldn't put faking it past him but I personally doubt it.
I hadn't even consider that possibility; but now that you mention it that obit sure sounds like his writing. That said, unless some good evidence of fakery turns up I'm going to assume it's legit.

At about the same time the obit showed up someone tried to register here praising the doc and wanting to discuss Apollo, essentially looking like a sock of him.  It is possible that it was someone else but seemed suspicious.  Another forum member said he was trying to track down the death certificate to be sure.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Chew on August 12, 2013, 07:04:48 PM
There are 135 entries in the obit guest book. A glance through them shows none of them were aware of his deranged online persona or chose not to speak ill of the dead.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on August 13, 2013, 12:49:32 AM
I note in the obituary it refers to:
Quote
In 2010, Pat's design of the "Dr. Tea" road bike won the Best of Show..
and then:
Quote
To pay tribute to Pat privately... rigorously question authority.

I am 99.9% satisfied that Dr Patrick Tekeli was indeed Dr Socks.  Apart from all the clues that are online, I also make that judgement on the basis of extensive matching details and 'patter' in some quite lengthy emails he sent to me directly from a gmail account (commencing '49ersrule..' and signing off as 'Ted Dooley' - another alias Tekeli has used on Youtube).  Those emails seemed to have been prompted by a warning I made to him at a forum about impersonating people, including me, to which I took a very dim view indeed..

The content of those emails was, frankly, disturbing - just like some of his posts and identities..  I'm thinking particularly of some of his foulmouthed posts at AboveTopSecret as 'Decisively' and BAUT as 'Dastardly', where he 'feigned'/implied literacy issues and/or mental illness (perhaps to somehow justify to himself what he was posting?).

Anyway, in those emails to me he admitted to most (not all) of the identities and gave many personal details that match the bio's and obituary - he even gave me his number to ring which I checked but didn't use...  So if it was a false identity, it was *very* deeply researched and contrived.

When I responded to the first email (quite politely) as a test I asked him a couple of questions to which I already knew the answer.  In the course of another lengthy email he failed that test and lied to me, so I replied and told him I was not interested in any further conversation as it was clear he had no good intentions whatsoever.

Now I'm sure there may be a troll or two about who may use this development to play games and fake his re-appearance, but to me it all 'seems legit'..

..and I for one will not miss him in the slightest.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on August 13, 2013, 02:03:51 AM
As I said for Jack White, about the  worst thing that can be said of someone is the world is bettered by their absence.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on August 13, 2013, 02:47:05 AM
It's hard to argue against that when it comes to their public personae, but even Jack White and Dr. Socks must have had family and friends.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 13, 2013, 02:58:49 AM
I know someone personally who will better the world by her absence, and her family agrees.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on August 13, 2013, 03:06:10 AM
It's hard to argue against that when it comes to their public personae, but even Jack White and Dr. Socks must have had family and friends.
I know. I am not trying to dehumanize them, but rather mourning a life that spent so much of itself on vitriolic ignorance and hate.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on August 13, 2013, 08:23:29 AM
Or at least not accomplishing much of anything.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on August 13, 2013, 10:36:53 AM
Any USians able to tell me the normal period between death and interment over there? cos Doc Socks was at least two weeks dead before the funeral.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 13, 2013, 10:40:04 AM
Any USians able to tell me the normal period between death and interment over there? cos Doc Socks was at least two weeks dead before the funeral.

That's long.  It's usually a few days.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on August 13, 2013, 12:05:13 PM
Any USians able to tell me the normal period between death and interment over there? cos Doc Socks was at least two weeks dead before the funeral.

That's long.  It's usually a few days.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a longer wait more normal if there is a reason the body is needed as, say, evidence?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 13, 2013, 01:18:53 PM
Not usually, to my understanding.  Autopsies are done as soon as possible, because some aspects of it can be time-sensitive.  Tissue samples may be preserved, but the body itself is usually released as quickly as possible.  Sometimes, this is not the case, but that's usually if the issues are complicated.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Donnie B. on August 13, 2013, 04:45:49 PM
A funeral may be delayed a bit longer than usual in some circumstances, such as when a family member is distant and/or difficult to get hold of.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on August 13, 2013, 05:13:42 PM
A funeral may be delayed a bit longer than usual in some circumstances, such as when a family member is distant and/or difficult to get hold of.
Puts a new spin (or maybe the original spin) on being told to "go chill." :P
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on August 26, 2013, 12:55:47 PM
Or at least not accomplishing much of anything.

Yes. I'm sorry for someone who had an obsessive need to keep positing nonsense. He was a doctor, and apparently a talented musician. I wonder what demons prevented that from being enough for him?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on August 26, 2013, 02:51:18 PM
Yes. I'm sorry for someone who had an obsessive need to keep positing nonsense. He was a doctor, and apparently a talented musician. I wonder what demons prevented that from being enough for him?

Highly-accomplished people can still suffer an inferiority complex.  Buzz Aldrin is a good example.  Despite an exemplary military career, a stellar academic career, and being the first with Neil Armstrong to set foot on extraterrestrial soil, he still suffered from depression, anxiety, and alcoholism as a result (according to many) of feeling inadequate and unaccomplished.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 26, 2013, 04:26:42 PM
Depression lies to you.  It tells you that you're worthless, that your loved ones don't love you, and that nothing you do is ever good enough.  Bad enough when you really haven't accomplished very much; if you've done truly great things and your brain is still insisting that you have never accomplished anything, it must be very painful.  Because, I mean, what can you do that's good enough?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on August 26, 2013, 08:30:57 PM
Depression lies to you.  It tells you that you're worthless, that your loved ones don't love you, and that nothing you do is ever good enough.  Bad enough when you really haven't accomplished very much; if you've done truly great things and your brain is still insisting that you have never accomplished anything, it must be very painful.  Because, I mean, what can you do that's good enough?

I am saving this quote.  I need to read it every day.  Maybe several times a day.  Thanks.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 26, 2013, 08:38:11 PM
You're quite welcome!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on August 27, 2013, 01:01:14 AM
Highly-accomplished people can still suffer an inferiority complex.  Buzz Aldrin is a good example. 
When you walk on the moon at age 38, what do you do for an encore with the rest of your life?

I've tried to read Aldrin's books Return to Earth and Magnificent Desolation but I have only made it halfway through each. He's certainly bright and has some amazing stories to tell, but they're also so... well... self indulgent.

Mike Collins' Carrying the Fire, on the other hand, was a real page-turner. His self-deprecating style was a lot easier.


Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on August 27, 2013, 04:44:29 AM
It's a nice little piece of circumstantial evidence against the moon hoax. They aren't all reading the same script. They all have their own takes and perspective, their own voice. I have read Lost Moon, the book the Tom Hanks film, Apollo 13, is based on, repeatedly and it is still worth reading every time.
And thank you, gillianren, for what you wrote there. As someone who has struggled with depression repeatedly, I know how hard it can be when you have to fight your own brain like that.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on August 27, 2013, 05:32:46 AM
Highly-accomplished people can still suffer an inferiority complex.  Buzz Aldrin is a good example. 
When you walk on the moon at age 38, what do you do for an encore with the rest of your life?

I've tried to read Aldrin's books Return to Earth and Magnificent Desolation but I have only made it halfway through each. He's certainly bright and has some amazing stories to tell, but they're also so... well... self indulgent.

Mike Collins' Carrying the Fire, on the other hand, was a real page-turner. His self-deprecating style was a lot easier.

Very much this.
I tried so hard to "like" Aldrin, but just can't.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on August 27, 2013, 11:15:41 AM
Highly-accomplished people can still suffer an inferiority complex.  Buzz Aldrin is a good example. 
When you walk on the moon at age 38, what do you do for an encore with the rest of your life?

I've tried to read Aldrin's books Return to Earth and Magnificent Desolation but I have only made it halfway through each. He's certainly bright and has some amazing stories to tell, but they're also so... well... self indulgent.

Mike Collins' Carrying the Fire, on the other hand, was a real page-turner. His self-deprecating style was a lot easier.

Very much this.
I tried so hard to "like" Aldrin, but just can't.

He was also in Transformers 3 which makes him irredeemable.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Laurel on August 27, 2013, 05:52:51 PM
Highly-accomplished people can still suffer an inferiority complex.  Buzz Aldrin is a good example.  Despite an exemplary military career, a stellar academic career, and being the first with Neil Armstrong to set foot on extraterrestrial soil, he still suffered from depression, anxiety, and alcoholism as a result (according to many) of feeling inadequate and unaccomplished.
Aldrin has also mentioned that he has a family history of alcoholism and mental illness. You can be a highly accomplished person, but you can't change risk factors in your family history.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Laurel on August 27, 2013, 05:56:59 PM
And thank you, gillianren, for what you wrote there. As someone who has struggled with depression repeatedly, I know how hard it can be when you have to fight your own brain like that.
Social anxiety is kind of like that too. People might say they  enjoy spending time with you, but it's really hard to believe them. "They're just being polite, I'm terrible at human interaction and people would have a better time without me."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on August 27, 2013, 10:31:43 PM
Highly-accomplished people can still suffer an inferiority complex.  Buzz Aldrin is a good example. 
When you walk on the moon at age 38, what do you do for an encore with the rest of your life?

I've tried to read Aldrin's books Return to Earth and Magnificent Desolation but I have only made it halfway through each. He's certainly bright and has some amazing stories to tell, but they're also so... well... self indulgent.

Mike Collins' Carrying the Fire, on the other hand, was a real page-turner. His self-deprecating style was a lot easier.

Very much this.
I tried so hard to "like" Aldrin, but just can't.
I see where you guys are coming from; but what other Apollo astronaut would have popped Sibrel? Just sayin'  :D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on August 27, 2013, 11:50:47 PM
Yeah. The man may be a shameless self promoter, but I don't really hold it against the guy.
He landed on the moon. If I did that, I'd want everyone to know.
Social anxiety is kind of like that too. People might say they  enjoy spending time with you, but it's really hard to believe them. "They're just being polite, I'm terrible at human interaction and people would have a better time without me."
Heh, yeah. That's a horrible feeling.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on August 28, 2013, 07:19:11 AM
Yeah. The man may be a shameless self promoter, but I don't really hold it against the guy.
He landed on the moon. If I did that, I'd want everyone to know.
Social anxiety is kind of like that too. People might say they  enjoy spending time with you, but it's really hard to believe them. "They're just being polite, I'm terrible at human interaction and people would have a better time without me."
Heh, yeah. That's a horrible feeling.
I've finally gotten to an age where I can mostly ignore that feeling and actually take people as they come without second guessing.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on August 28, 2013, 09:21:26 AM
Solon was back for a while on Cosmoquest, but was suspended after a few pages.

I must admit, I wish they'd allow Solon a little more leeway, just to see if he will ever drop a hint about *why* he believes scientists are covering up the "fact" that you can't see light in space. Is it, as previous posters have surmised, a building block in a greater, more common theory, like Young Earth Creationism? Or is it simply an idea that he's come up with that he's become enamored with, without any connections to anything else?

Otherwise, I think his threads on this topic are fantastic examples of typical conspiracist arguments, from begging the question, to goal-post moving, to simply ignoring counter-evidence. I think if I were teaching a course on logic, his threads would be a great (bad) example.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on August 28, 2013, 09:35:27 PM
He's so intent on dodging the landslides of evidence against his idea that he contradicts himself pretty regularly.  His insistence that the Moon's barely-there ionosphere permits his "conversion" process, for example, means that his original claim (that the Sun can't be seen near the zenith from the ISS' altitude) can't be right, since there's much more ionosphere above the station than above the Moon.  It's the sort of thing that happens when he's running full-tilt looking back at the evidence rather than forward at a coherent argument.   I wish he'd come over here where the moderation isn't so strict.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on August 29, 2013, 10:17:11 AM
Aldrin has also mentioned that he has a family history of alcoholism and mental illness. You can be a highly accomplished person, but you can't change risk factors in your family history.
Lots of families have histories of alcoholism and mental illness. Mine, for example. Doesn't mean you'll necessarily be a mentally ill alcoholic all your life.

I actually don't care much for alcohol; I think I got that from my mother. On the other hand, her father, who died when I was three, reportedly believed the earth was flat and rejected the germ theory of disease and the existence of artificial satellites.  Needless to say I didn't inherit those traits, but I sure wished he'd lived longer so I would have had the chance to argue with him.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on August 29, 2013, 11:45:13 AM
Part of life is realizing that your heroes may not be as heroic as you wish.  Each astronaut has a distinct personality with desirable and less-desirable traits.  Aldrin, for example, is brilliant, a self-promoter, and uniquely charismatic.  He's also prone to depression and also the guy you hope you don't get stuck talking to at a party.  You'll never be able to explain all a person's behavior in terms of his public persona.

But humanizing the Apollo crews is essential.  They are little different in most respects than the other people in our social and professional circles.  And we learn to accept the whole package among our peers, so why not also the crews?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on August 29, 2013, 06:06:29 PM
Highly-accomplished people can still suffer an inferiority complex.  Buzz Aldrin is a good example.  Despite an exemplary military career, a stellar academic career, and being the first with Neil Armstrong to set foot on extraterrestrial soil, he still suffered from depression, anxiety, and alcoholism as a result (according to many) of feeling inadequate and unaccomplished.
Aldrin has also mentioned that he has a family history of alcoholism and mental illness. You can be a highly accomplished person, but you can't change risk factors in your family history.

Still curious that with that background the NASA doctors didn't think twice during the selection process.

Yeah. The man may be a shameless self promoter, but I don't really hold it against the guy.
He landed on the moon. If I did that, I'd want everyone to know.
Social anxiety is kind of like that too. People might say they  enjoy spending time with you, but it's really hard to believe them. "They're just being polite, I'm terrible at human interaction and people would have a better time without me."
Heh, yeah. That's a horrible feeling.

He joined in for a wonderfully self-deprecating joke in TBBT where he was the demonstration to Howard of what being an obnoxious gloat about being in space is like.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on August 29, 2013, 09:21:09 PM
But humanizing the Apollo crews is essential.
Agree, but at the time NASA went out of their way to paint these guys as superhuman. And like anyone with a nationwide (or worldwide) audience, they tend to watch what they say.

These guys finally started to sound like real people when the transcripts of the on-board intercom recordings came out.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on August 29, 2013, 11:05:01 PM
Lots of families have histories of alcoholism and mental illness. Mine, for example. Doesn't mean you'll necessarily be a mentally ill alcoholic all your life.

I'm definitely not an alcoholic; I don't care for alcohol, either.  (I also dread loss of control, so the idea of being drunk has never appealed to me.)  However, having a family history of either alcoholism or mental illness does predispose you toward both.  Especially if you think self-medicating with alcohol is a good idea.  It's certainly a popular one.  In writing, it's known as "the Hemingway defense."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on August 30, 2013, 04:46:42 AM
Sounds like a chess move*. :P
*Yes I know who Ernest Hemingway was.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on August 30, 2013, 04:42:10 PM
Sounds like a chess move. :P

Well it almost is, since it was the writer Stephen King who first coined the phrase.

"....as a writer, I am a very sensitive fellow, but I am also a man, and real men don’t give into their sensitivities.  Only sissy-men do that.  Therefore I drink.  How else can I face the existential horror of it all and continue to work? Besides, come on, I can handle it.  A real man always can"

But King himself rejects this notion. He states that the mixture of creative endeavour with mind-altering substances "is one of the great pop-intellectual myths of our time.”
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on August 30, 2013, 11:22:45 PM
On the old friends, I think I've got Heiwa over at Godlike arguing that nuclear weapons don't exist.  And IDW has surfaced again but is generally calmer these days.  Unfortunately, he's also left Apollo behind to concentrate on UFO's, ISON, and of course his own unique theory of physics.

There's always an Apollo Hoaxer or two at Godlike but so few of them are worth the time.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on August 31, 2013, 12:42:53 AM
Nomuse, you have a much stronger stomach (and much more tolerance) than I, to still be hangin' out at Godlike.  I salute you!

For me, I spent a bit of time there some years back when Nancy Lieder was peddling her horrible, dog-killing insanity - but as her influence died away it got to the point where the stupid just burnt too much..  Having said that, I do wonder how much of GLP consists of those honing their 133t trol-skilz..?

Interesting about IDW.. I got the sense he vanished for quite a long while - any hint as to why?

Speaking of old friends, I just did a quick google to see how my old 'friend' highwic was getting on - I see he's still posting at godlike making new predictions of doom, although he's now extended them way out to 2018 or so...  Highwic got very, very angry at me when I chased him around the web like in the comments here (http://pseudoastro.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/planet-x-and-2012-why-gilbert-eriksens-wormwood-wont-be-showing-up/) to dispute his predictions for apocalypse in 2011/12 and showed that his 'incoming' was Jupiter...

Highwic was one of my 'favorites', because he got unbelievably angry when people disputed his 'info' and invariably got himself banned by his very rude and very silly retaliative outbursts.  Funny, but a little sad, to watch...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Peter B on August 31, 2013, 11:26:36 AM
On the old friends, I think I've got Heiwa over at Godlike arguing that nuclear weapons don't exist.
Heh. So all those nukes the Soviets and Americans aimed at each other from the 1940s to the 1980s were just for show? For whose benefit? Aaah, the light dawns - to keep the Swedes in their place. *wink* *taps side of nose*

By the way, he's expanded his spacecraft page, with links to some other site, but with no corresponding increase in good sense (or good manners).
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on August 31, 2013, 02:33:40 PM
I was laid up in bed.  Couldn't concentrate enough to do anything meaningful.



Most frustrating part of most conspiracy theorists is their lack of world-building.  I always want them to explain more about how their theory works...and think about its implications.

But you hammer and hammer just trying to get one to narrow down to explaining they disbelieve in the actual lunar landing, but every other part of the space program is peachy with them.  Or, in the case above, that they accept atomic theory and the peaceful uses of nuclear energy, but they don't think bombs can work.

They seem, as a group, surprisingly uninterested in their own theories.  They rarely amplify or expand; they only repeat their original statement (if not their original post, verbatim).
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: cjameshuff on September 01, 2013, 06:07:49 PM
Otherwise, I think his threads on this topic are fantastic examples of typical conspiracist arguments, from begging the question, to goal-post moving, to simply ignoring counter-evidence. I think if I were teaching a course on logic, his threads would be a great (bad) example.

It's curious how he latches on to some technical term while clearly not having any comprehension whatsoever of what it means. "Plane wave" and "transverse wave" have quite specific meanings which clearly escape him entirely: they describe completely independent attributes of waves (the shape of the wavefront versus the direction of oscillation), while he bases his "theory" on them being entirely separate kinds of waves.

His new favorite incantation appears to be "Shack–Hartmann wavefront sensor". To the rest of the world, it's a rather straightforward instrument based on lenslet arrays used to test imaging optics and ensure that rays of light traveling different paths through the instrument all end up at the right parts of the sensor. It's based purely on refractive optics, and is little different from an array of very small simple-lens cameras. To Solon, it's some magical technology that somehow makes stars visible in vacuum. (My suspicion is that he confuses the lenslet array with a grating, another favorite word and another case where Solon's beliefs simply have nothing in common with reality.)

When more knowledgeable people correct him, he refuses to even acknowledge it, and continues with his nonsensical usage of the terms. I don't know if he's just using fancy words in an attempt to impress or what...in the latest thread, he seems to be trying more to win the argument by ridiculing his opponents, accusing them of ignorance.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on September 01, 2013, 07:07:34 PM
Sounds like Brannon Braga.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on September 02, 2013, 01:11:51 AM

When more knowledgeable people correct him, he refuses to even acknowledge it, and continues with his nonsensical usage of the terms. I don't know if he's just using fancy words in an attempt to impress or what...in the latest thread, he seems to be trying more to win the argument by ridiculing his opponents, accusing them of ignorance.

And therein lies one of the fundamental differences between the scientist and the pseudo -scientist.

Both the scientist and the pseudo -scientist can come up with what, on the face of things, looks like a really great theory/idea. They can both really fall in love with their theory/idea, but when the experimental/research data don't support it, and show it is wrong, the scientist will let go of it, while the pseudo -scientist wont.

One of the great historical examples of this was Kepler. He had convinced himself that the orbits of the six known planets were circular, and directly geometrically related to the shapes of the five "perfect" (or Platonic) solids. His astrological beliefs told him that he was right, and that this was proof of the Hand of God in the creation of the universe.

But the observational data didn't match, especially when he was able to extract more accurate observations from Tycho Brahe. The scientist/astronomer in him overrode his dearest astrological beliefs and he gave up the idea in favour of the one he eventually arrived at, the one that fit the data; that the orbits were in fact ellipses with the Sun at one focus.

And so, we have Kepler's Laws of Planetary motion.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 03, 2013, 12:17:14 PM
He's so intent on dodging the landslides of evidence against his idea that he contradicts himself pretty regularly.  His insistence that the Moon's barely-there ionosphere permits his "conversion" process, for example, means that his original claim (that the Sun can't be seen near the zenith from the ISS' altitude) can't be right, since there's much more ionosphere above the station than above the Moon.  It's the sort of thing that happens when he's running full-tilt looking back at the evidence rather than forward at a coherent argument.   I wish he'd come over here where the moderation isn't so strict.

The thing that sets my teeth on edge about Solon and similar conspiracists is the sneaky way they feel compelled to introduce their pet theory. It's always a sort of "oh, I have this *little* question/observation I thought I would mention. Anyone think it's just a bit odd, hmm?"

If I really thought I had a new theory of the propagation of light, I'd be going to the ATM thread, and saying, "Hey, guys, I have this really cool alternate notion about light! Here's my reasoning, and my evidence. I think I'm right, and everyone else has been wrong." If I really thought I had something new, I would believe I could defend it - if the idea can't stand up to scrutiny, it's not likely to be valid. This sneaking business of trying to get people to accept one small concern as legitimate (serving as as the camel's nose under the tent) indicates to me that conspiracists really know that there's no way they can defend their ideas in a straightforward discussion.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: cjameshuff on September 03, 2013, 10:37:05 PM
The thing that sets my teeth on edge about Solon and similar conspiracists is the sneaky way they feel compelled to introduce their pet theory. It's always a sort of "oh, I have this *little* question/observation I thought I would mention. Anyone think it's just a bit odd, hmm?"

Prying out details that you can actually address is like pulling teeth. Then after some goalpost shuffling, demands for wildly impractical experiments, demands for evidence that gets provided and ignored, and more evasion, out comes the same stuff that you'd previously demolished. Compton scattering! Transverse and plane waves! Gratings!

I like how sts60 put it, he's constantly running full-tilt while looking backwards, with no idea where he's going with any of it. That fits with his ability to come up with such absurdities like his notion that the reason the Shuttle's windshields got a close inspection after each flight was the diffraction gratings secretly placed on them to make the outside visible.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Chew on September 03, 2013, 11:08:01 PM
The thing that sets my teeth on edge about Solon and similar conspiracists is the sneaky way they feel compelled to introduce their pet theory. It's always a sort of "oh, I have this *little* question/observation I thought I would mention. Anyone think it's just a bit odd, hmm?"

It's called JAQing off. (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/JAQing_off)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on September 04, 2013, 12:35:01 AM
The worst part I think is sometimes there is someone who literally thinks something doesn't look how they think it should and have honest, if misinformed, questions about it. The moon is a weird place, and its lack of atmosphere and its fractal features, for example, make distances difficult to judge.
So they come to the site, and we scare them off by jumping down their throat, because their opening ramble happens to resemble those who lack honest questions and are just trying to push an agenda.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on September 04, 2013, 01:12:34 AM
Yes, I'm concerned about the same thing. Usually by the time I see a newcomer there is already a flurry of replies from the regulars and some of them can be a little nasty.

I think people should be a little more patient. If the guy is just another hoaxer cynically playing the "just asking questions" line, it'll be obvious soon enough. Anyone asking honest questions in good faith, no matter how 'stupid' they might seem to some, deserves straight and respectful answers.

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Kiwi on September 04, 2013, 09:03:38 AM
I've often seen a flurry of replies to a newcomer that in my opinion have been very nasty, and I have often been appalled at the lack of both brains and manners in some of our regulars.

Why do some people have to behave like that?  Too big an ego?  Insecurity?  Built-in, permanent nastiness?  There is absolutely no need for it.  It does nothing for our side and makes us all look bad.

Perhaps we need some system besides PMs were we can jointly express our disgust at such behaviour and ask the perpetrators to pull themselves together, grow up and show a little more decency.

Rant over, changing the subject to good posts:

I re-read this wonderful old thread at CosmoQuest last night, and was very impressed by some of the replies.
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?8184-Has-any-HB-dared-challenge-Gene-Kranz&p=147239#post147239
It was started nearly ten years ago at the Bad Astronomy Bulletin Board, was resurrected years later and wandered completely off the original subject.  There are some marvellous replies about the "missing" Apollo 11 video, and as often happens one JayUtah posted some excellent information about that and about using intuition in the engineering field.  It also has the usual HB's ignoring of the information supplied.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Allan F on September 04, 2013, 09:38:54 AM
Sometimes, I believe, the harsh replies are triggered by recognition of one of the usual suspects, who show up in disguise, but whose language and ideas reveals his/her identity.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 04, 2013, 10:44:29 AM
I think it's a bit like "compassion overload". Someone new to the discussion is more likely to take posters who start off with "I have always believed in Apollo, but I have one, small nagging question, could anyone help me with it?" at face value. However, soon one starts to see that this is often not an honest post, but a ploy. Eventually, the occasional new poster who simply *does* have an honest question gets snapped at. When you are dealing with mostly wolves in sheeps' clothing, the occasional genuine sheep triggers a suspicious response.

Unfortunately, I've seen several cases where a new poster started off like this, people agreed to give him/her a chance and assume s/he was legitimate, only to show later on that s/he was simply using the "just asking questions" gambit.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on September 04, 2013, 11:37:00 AM
Unfortunately, I've seen several cases where a new poster started off like this, people agreed to give him/her a chance and assume s/he was legitimate, only to show later on that s/he was simply using the "just asking questions" gambit.

Yeah, it does happen.  And it does happen that it's someone we've seen before who really is pathetic enough to come back with a sock puppet.  I don't care.  I still prefer to err on the side of politeness, and I think that, if we are claiming to educate anyone, we should make it our goal to do so every time.  I don't believe we're ever going to convince the hardcore conspiracists, which is the usual argument for just giving up and being rude.  But I don't believe that being rude convinces the people who are just kind of ignorant or the people who might come along later and read the conversation.  I'm not convinced that being rude convinces anyone, though I've had a few people argue to me that it does.

Anyway, think of it as anger management training.  If you can keep your calm with these people, who are after all online--where you can walk away from the keyboard--it's good practice in keeping your calm with idiots you encounter in person and actually have to work with.  Or, sigh, are related to.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Glom on September 04, 2013, 02:33:22 PM
When someone new does come along eventually (been very quiet lately) we must all vow to be nice and not presumptive.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on September 04, 2013, 04:59:17 PM
Hmm.  To those saying we are too hard on newbies..  I'm probably an offender, but who would know with these sort of generalisations - please give examples (I can take it! :P).  After all, we often criticise others for handwaving and not being specific.  And surely the correct time to deal with a snarky/inappropriate post is at that time - with a suitable reply or get LO to adjudicate/censor/remove/ask poster to revise.

And it's a harsh world, that one of reality we live in...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on September 04, 2013, 05:38:22 PM

And it's a harsh world, that one of reality we live in...

Nice hand-wave; worthy of every CT-ist who ever bleated, "The Government always lies - therefore The Official Story is a lie!"

In the context of this discussion, bullshit.  The world of this forum is precisely defined by the words written here.  It cannot be harsh unless someone makes a decision to type harsh words and click "post".  These are conscious actions for which individuals are 100% responsible.   Nothing out there in the meat-world absolves you of your responsibility for the words you write and the tone they take - either out there or in here.

This world is what we make of it.

(http://tinyurl.com/mwgl5ox)

[/harsh words]
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on September 04, 2013, 05:48:08 PM
Though by no means always successful, I aim at trying to live by the Paradoxical Commandments.
Yes, the world is harsh place, a world of lives nasty, brutish, and short, a world with hate and violence, ignorance and treachery, but I see no legitimate reason to make it any harsher my own actions.
Cynicism is just laziness.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on September 04, 2013, 08:59:14 PM
Can someone give me examples of threads where innocent newcomers were snapped at?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on September 04, 2013, 09:14:03 PM
How about this one?

http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=378.0

Someone came in making it very clear that they knew the argument was flawed and just wanting to know how it was flawed, and they were told to go back to sucking at Jack White's teat.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: qt on September 05, 2013, 01:22:12 AM
I have to say, if I saw something in a documentary, a web page, or some similar place about Apollo that I didn't understand, I'd think long and hard about whether I really wanted to ask about it here.

I wouldn't think long and hard at BAUT at all, if I see a debunking which is itself bunk, I know better than to say anything.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on September 05, 2013, 01:39:37 AM
How about this one?

http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=378.0

Someone came in making it very clear that they knew the argument was flawed and just wanting to know how it was flawed, and they were told to go back to sucking at Jack White's teat.


That's a good example,  all right.  Granted,  it wasn't a pile-on, but I do remember being a little embarrassed following that thread.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on September 05, 2013, 03:01:09 AM
I see where you guys are coming from; but what other Apollo astronaut would have popped Sibrel? Just sayin'  :D

You has a truth.

Still, there were other quick-tempered moonwalkers. I wonder what some of the others might have done if caught in the situation Buzz was.

Cernan? Shepard?  Conrad would just have given him a cussing that would have left him blind, bald, and staggering in circles.  And Ed Mitchell, after all, did kick him in the ass and threaten to throw him out of the house physically if he didn't leave instantly.


"....as a writer, I am a very sensitive fellow, but I am also a man, and real men don’t give into their sensitivities.  Only sissy-men do that.  Therefore I drink.  How else can I face the existential horror of it all and continue to work? Besides, come on, I can handle it.  A real man always can"

But King himself rejects this notion. He states that the mixture of creative endeavour with mind-altering substances "is one of the great pop-intellectual myths of our time.”

Kind of like when musicians think they play better when toked up.  They really just think they're playing better.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: darren r on September 05, 2013, 01:42:07 PM

Kind of like when musicians think they play better when toked up.  They really just think they're playing better.

God, yeah. I really like the comedy musings of Bill Hicks, but that's the most irritating claim he makes.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: slang on September 05, 2013, 02:21:42 PM
Solon was back for a while on Cosmoquest, but was suspended after a few pages.

I must admit, I wish they'd allow Solon a little more leeway, just to see if he will ever drop a hint about *why* he believes scientists are covering up the "fact" that you can't see light in space.

Try to find his first posts there. It was to do about some weird guru type putting the world of astronomy upside down with his new insights or something. IIRC stars not being real or similarly weird stuff. He's already used up a lot of leeway, btw.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: cjameshuff on September 05, 2013, 10:24:28 PM
Solon was back for a while on Cosmoquest, but was suspended after a few pages.

I must admit, I wish they'd allow Solon a little more leeway, just to see if he will ever drop a hint about *why* he believes scientists are covering up the "fact" that you can't see light in space.

Try to find his first posts there. It was to do about some weird guru type putting the world of astronomy upside down with his new insights or something. IIRC stars not being real or similarly weird stuff. He's already used up a lot of leeway, btw.

http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?113525-A-Revolution-in-Astronomy
There, he became a bit obsessed with the idea that parallax measurements were for some reason wildly wrong, to the point that stars were actually objects within the solar system and galaxies were other solar systems. Much like with his more recent threads, he was arbitrarily unwilling to accept the evidence given, questioning the measuring techniques without bothering to learn about them.

Shortly before that, his very first thread was about an idea of his that the atmosphere made stars visible by diffusing the light, they otherwise being too small to see. It seems he never gave up on that idea, and has since been adding as many twists and turns as he can.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on September 06, 2013, 08:01:04 PM
And it's a harsh world, that one of reality we live in...
Nice hand-wave; worthy of every CT-ist
???
Do you think the world of science, physics, photogrammetry, space environments etc and *real* investigation/research of those is easy/simple?  And I'm talking like a CT?  Thanks.

Quote
.. who ever bleated, "The Government always lies - therefore The Official Story is a lie!"
I find it a little strange that my comment about the harshness of reality should be compared to a very obvious logical fallacy.

Quote
In the context of this discussion, bullshit.
Thanks again.   :(

Quote
The world of this forum is precisely defined by the words written here.
Yes, the *actual* quoted words.  Not some handwaved generalisation.  Gillian was good enough to give a fine example...

Quote
It cannot be harsh unless someone makes a decision to type harsh words and click "post".  These are conscious actions for which individuals are 100% responsible.
And if they (including I) do post harshly, imo it should be dealt with *at the time* and *in context* or if later the actual incident/s should be quoted and discussed rather than admonishing an un-named poster or group of posters without even an example.

Quote
This world is what we make of it.
I'd argue that the world is also what you perceive it to be, and if your judgement is skewed by a few wayward or 'harsh' posts on a public forum where any Tom, Dick or Harriet is able to post relatively freely, then I think there's a problem.

Quote
[/harsh words]
There's a certain irony in that...

Gillian, I fully agree that some of those comments were inappropriate (I'm glad that they weren't mine..:D).  But I would note at that time we were suffering from a number of sockpuppet attacks, and I reckon I've been caught at least once wrongly suspecting a poster of that behaviour (no-one else?).  Again, I would suggest that if anyone sees an inappropriate post, then *at that time* post something to counter it or notify LO.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on September 06, 2013, 11:46:16 PM
I would say that contacting LO is better than being rude in-thread.  In this case, I do not have the faintest idea how anyone could have taken the person as Doc Socks, given that it was made explicit that the person knew by default that it was bogus but did not himself have the ability to show that it was bogus.  I mean, really; when did Doc Socks ever admit that he didn't know anything?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on September 08, 2013, 03:18:19 PM

Kind of like when musicians think they play better when toked up.  They really just think they're playing better.

God, yeah. I really like the comedy musings of Bill Hicks, but that's the most irritating claim he makes.
I'm not familiar with Bill Hicks; that was just a comment based on my own experience observations.


Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: darren r on September 09, 2013, 02:33:01 PM

I'm not familiar with Bill Hicks; that was just a comment based on my own experience observations.

His work is worth seeking out. His routine about the first Gulf War is hilarious. Though beware, he does believe that the JFK assassination was a conspiracy. Or 'believed', anyway. He sadly died in 1994. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 18, 2013, 10:30:29 AM
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?113525-A-Revolution-in-Astronomy
There, he became a bit obsessed with the idea that parallax measurements were for some reason wildly wrong, to the point that stars were actually objects within the solar system and galaxies were other solar systems. Much like with his more recent threads, he was arbitrarily unwilling to accept the evidence given, questioning the measuring techniques without bothering to learn about them.

Shortly before that, his very first thread was about an idea of his that the atmosphere made stars visible by diffusing the light, they otherwise being too small to see. It seems he never gave up on that idea, and has since been adding as many twists and turns as he can.

Ah, I think this provides a clue. I don't think he's a "Biblical/Genesis" Young Earth Creationist, I think he's pushing the Vedic interpretation of cosmology. Therefore, I suspect that his "you can't see light in space" theory is aimed at supporting his proposition that the universe is much smaller than we suppose, in accordance with Vedic descriptions. If light from outside Earth's atmosphere acts all weird and stuff, how can we trust our measurements that things are as far away as we think?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: cjameshuff on September 18, 2013, 06:44:13 PM
Ah, I think this provides a clue. I don't think he's a "Biblical/Genesis" Young Earth Creationist, I think he's pushing the Vedic interpretation of cosmology. Therefore, I suspect that his "you can't see light in space" theory is aimed at supporting his proposition that the universe is much smaller than we suppose, in accordance with Vedic descriptions. If light from outside Earth's atmosphere acts all weird and stuff, how can we trust our measurements that things are as far away as we think?

I think that was what the "revolution" guy was aiming at. Solon seems to just latch onto weird ideas that catch his fancy. There was another thread (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?139030-Origin-of-Iron-Oxides-on-Mars&p=2075242) where he was trying to suggest...well, I'll quote:

"...the possibility of the Martian surface features (and by inference, other planetary surfaces) being the result of processes such as heavy ion bombardment, ion acoustic waves, aggregation, dis-aggregation, shattering by pulsed electric fields, and, based on the known electrical and mechanical properties of particular rocks, processes that rely on the piezoelectric (and obverse), dielectric, resistance, reluctance, etc. variables. This scenario would be based on the concept of CMEs at magnitudes far greater than we presently experience, particularly with respect to the iron ion density."

All this because Mars has some iron in its crust. And CME's carry oxygen!

He was of course "just asking"...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on September 18, 2013, 06:59:49 PM
Man, it's like one of the bad episodes of Star Trek. :o
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on September 19, 2013, 12:40:49 AM
Man, it's like one of the bad episodes of Star Trek. :o

Yep, those ion storms sure play havoc with your basic tri-corders, the communicators and the Heisenberg compensators on the transporter platform!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on September 19, 2013, 04:42:48 AM
Ah, I think this provides a clue. I don't think he's a "Biblical/Genesis" Young Earth Creationist, I think he's pushing the Vedic interpretation of cosmology. Therefore, I suspect that his "you can't see light in space" theory is aimed at supporting his proposition that the universe is much smaller than we suppose, in accordance with Vedic descriptions. If light from outside Earth's atmosphere acts all weird and stuff, how can we trust our measurements that things are as far away as we think?

I think that was what the "revolution" guy was aiming at. Solon seems to just latch onto weird ideas that catch his fancy. There was another thread (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?139030-Origin-of-Iron-Oxides-on-Mars&p=2075242) where he was trying to suggest...well, I'll quote:

"...the possibility of the Martian surface features (and by inference, other planetary surfaces) being the result of processes such as heavy ion bombardment, ion acoustic waves, aggregation, dis-aggregation, shattering by pulsed electric fields, and, based on the known electrical and mechanical properties of particular rocks, processes that rely on the piezoelectric (and obverse), dielectric, resistance, reluctance, etc. variables. This scenario would be based on the concept of CMEs at magnitudes far greater than we presently experience, particularly with respect to the iron ion density."

All this because Mars has some iron in its crust. And CME's carry oxygen!

He was of course "just asking"...

Now I have a headache.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on September 19, 2013, 06:37:24 AM
Man, it's like one of the bad episodes of Star Trek. :o
Too bad we can't put them into the passageway between the universes and then phaser the portal into the passageway...

(That was a bad episode)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 20, 2013, 12:01:19 PM
Wow. That's ... a lot of technobabble. (Yes, I know individually the terms are real, I just suspect they are being thrown in because they sounds "techy".)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on September 20, 2013, 04:15:02 PM
Yep, those ion storms sure play havoc with your basic tri-corders, the communicators and the Heisenberg compensators on the transporter platform!
I have a certain fondness for the Heisenberg compensator.  It tells me the creators knew what at least one of the laws of physics were that they were breaking when they broke them.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Chew on September 20, 2013, 04:36:03 PM
http://www.google.com/search?q=technobabble+generator
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Humots on September 22, 2013, 06:34:44 PM
I've been following IDW on his REALTIVITY FINALLY DISQUALIFIED BY MAINSTREAM SCIENCE! thread at GodlikeProductions, and in the next to last post on

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2265862/pg144

he said something so ignorant, even for him, that it surprised me:

Quote
E = M C^2 Proved bunk:


Closely examine that equation. If it is an algebraic equation as it's form suggests, then the algebraic solution for C produces C = SQRT(E/M) This translates basically into "if you transform matter into energy C has to increase or the equation produces an inequality".In an algebraic form, C cannot be a constant unless both E and M are constant and never vary

The thread has continued for nine more pages so far, and no one has called him on this.

I am strongly tempted to register at GodLike and post something like the following:

"C = PI D (circumference of a circle = PI times the diameter of the circle) Proved bunk:

Closely examine that equation. If it is an algebraic equation as its form suggests, then the algebraic solution for PI produces PI = C / D.  This translates basically into "If you change the circumference of a circle, PI has to change or the equation produces an inequality".  In an algebraic form, PI cannot be a constant unless both C  and D are constant and never vary."

Or possibly:

"a = GM/R^2 (the gravitational acceleration for mass M at distance R is equal to the product of the Gravitational Constant G times the mass M divided by the square of the distance R) Proved bunk:

Closely examine that equation.  If it is an algebraic equation as it form suggests, then the algebraic solution for G produces G= a * R^2/M. This translates basically into "If you change the distance from mass M, the Gravitational Constant G has to change or the equation produces an inequality".  In an algebraic form, G cannot be a constant unless a, R and M are constant and never vary."

I believe this is the most ridiculous thing IDW has ever said, and that it is such a perfect example of his general cluelessness that it needs exposure.

I'm sure that IDW will claim that his post was edited, state that I am a NASA shill, make some obscene, antisemitic, homophobic remark, explain how
he really didn't say what he said, or ignore me.

But, is it a good idea for me to register and post at Godlike?  I'm serious, I've heard warnings about being sure my antivirals and anti-malware code is up to date before going there.

Also, I don't want to leave my email address and get spammed.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on September 22, 2013, 06:43:09 PM
You don't have to register to post at GLP.  That is why the place is infested with "anonymous cowards".  Of course if you prefer to register just start up a new email with yahoo or gmail.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Humots on September 22, 2013, 07:22:06 PM
Ok, thanks!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on September 22, 2013, 08:19:47 PM
I'm registered and haven't had any problems.  The "karma" system is a joke so most times I post I don't bother to log in. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on September 22, 2013, 11:29:35 PM
Quote
"E = M C^2 Proved bunk:

Closely examine that equation. If it is an algebraic equation as it's form suggests, then the algebraic solution for C produces C = SQRT(E/M) This translates basically into "if you transform matter into energy C has to increase or the equation produces an inequality".In an algebraic form, C cannot be a constant unless both E and M are constant and never vary"

He's got the algebra transposition wrong. Its not  C=√(E/M) its C=E/M2

As far as I can remember, constants are rarely if ever placed on the left side of the equation, even though the result would still be valid.

in a circle  c = πD, transposes to D=c/π.  It is also every bit as valid to say π=c/D, its just pointless because you already know the value of π

E=MC2 transposes to M=E/C2. C=E/M2, while valid, it pointless as we already know the value of C
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: qt on September 22, 2013, 11:42:27 PM
He's got the algebra transposition wrong. Its not  C=√(E/M) its C=E/M2

Can you show us how you're getting that?

His maths (as I have seen them quoted here, I didn't go to the original - my IP address is blocked) look OK to me, it's the interpretation which is all moonshine.

in a circle  c = πD, transposes to D=c/π.  It is also every bit as valid to say π=c/D, its just pointless because you already know the value of π

I think there are different styles out there.  I write <stuff>=<constant> all the time, particularly when it is awkward to solve <stuff> explicitly for one of the variables.  If <stuff> is differentiable in all the variables, you can get a nice linear equation for infinitesimal changes, which can be solved for any variable desired, even if <stuff> is quite complicated.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Jason Thompson on September 23, 2013, 04:38:09 AM
He's got the algebra transposition wrong. Its not  C=√(E/M) its C=E/M2

...

E=MC2 transposes to M=E/C2. C=E/M2, while valid, it pointless as we already know the value of C

I'm pretty sure his rearrangement is correct.

E = mc2

Divide both sides my m: E/m = c2

Therefore c = √(E/m)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on September 23, 2013, 05:56:49 AM
I was going to launch into an explanation about checking by substitution and while doing so, realised I had it wrong. Oops!

However, it still doesn't make what he said afterwards right. This....

"if you transform matter into energy C has to increase or the equation produces an inequality"

.... is utter rubbish.

You have to start with "C" as a constant because that is what it is. Putting a constant as the result means that the variables on the right hand side must change in relation to each other; that is the whole issue with the constant being... well... constant!

e.g. we know that the value of π is 3.14159. Its the circumference of a circle divided by its diameter. That is a FIXED relationship, defined by π, just as the relationship between matter and energy is defined by C. You can't have a matter/energy relationship that equates to a value of C greater than the speed of light any more than you can have a circle whose circumference is five times its diameter!! 






 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Jason Thompson on September 23, 2013, 07:54:58 AM
This....

"if you transform matter into energy C has to increase or the equation produces an inequality"

.... is utter rubbish.

Indeed. As you say, if E increases m does along with it. That's pretty much the whole point of the equation showing the relationship.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 23, 2013, 02:29:38 PM
I think he's assuming that if you (somehow) increase E, mass "magically" increases to match it. Instead, the only variable that can be manipulated here is mass. If you increase the mass, you'll increase the energy.

It would be like if C is miles per gallon on your car (assuming that is a constant*). The variable you can manipulate is the gallons of gasoline you add. More gas, more miles; less gas, fewer miles. You can't say, "Oh, mpg can't be a constant, because if you drove twice the miles, how would you automatically get twice the gasoline in your tank? Magic?"

*Of course, it isn't, but let's say all other variables are being controlled.

The way you get more E is to provide more m. You can't increase E otherwise.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Humots on September 23, 2013, 03:29:22 PM
IDW had already "admitted" to a mistake on the thread about how MRI worked:

Quote
To be perfectly honest I never took the time to actually read how magnetic resonance imaging worked.

I have a fairly accurate idea now.

No one has the time to learn everything.

If I were ever going to be subjected to one, I would have studied it more intensively.

I simply made the most obvious assumption, that it utilized the iron present in all human cells to image them by inducing a resonant vibration with an oscillating magnetic field and detecting it with coils. At any rate it doesn't sound any safer and wiser to me now, knowing how it actually works than it did before.

I can't help but think utilizing the iron present would be the more simpler approach using magnetism to image the human body.

and I hoped that he might see the light.  No such luck.

I'm probably not going to post at Godlike any more.  I have better things to do with my time. 

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Jason Thompson on September 23, 2013, 05:09:53 PM
There's only so much you can do with someone who insists that the worldwide application of a particular method of imaging the human body in great detail is for some reason not as good as his layman's 'simpler' version of how it should be done. He can't understand that there's a good reason why his 'simper' way of doing it has not been adopted: it doesn't work!

Of course explaining to him that he has fallen into the same fallacy of assuming iron is inherently magnetic because, well, we all know iron is, right? would be a waste of time, since he can't grasp the idea that metallic iron is magnetic but the iron in haemoglobin is not in a metallic state and is therefore not magnetic. This is also why the idea of 'magnetic healing bracelets' is bunk....
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on October 07, 2013, 12:07:26 PM
I was reading another conspiracy theorist ("Aliens did it!"), and something struck me, that most of them are very reluctant to fully explain what exactly they mean. They tend to answer questions with obfuscations like "Think about it," or "I'm not going to do your research," or "A + B = C, therefore D = apricot. I'm not going to spell it out for you."  I'm not sure if this indicates that they're aware that their arguments are weak, or whether this is simply their normal way of thinking, and they expect that rampant jumps to conclusions are actually convincing.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: PetersCreek on October 07, 2013, 02:56:28 PM
Not that I'm a psychologist (or play one on TV) but I think the emotional payoff for many CTists is in "knowing the truth" behind the supposed conspiracy that completely dupes mere mortals and that knowledge feels like power. Giving up up too much of that "knowledge" or doing so in a time/manner not of their own choosing is to give up a measure of that power.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 07, 2013, 03:42:23 PM
I was reading another conspiracy theorist ("Aliens did it!"), and something struck me, that most of them are very reluctant to fully explain what exactly they mean. They tend to answer questions with obfuscations like "Think about it," or "I'm not going to do your research," or "A + B = C, therefore D = apricot. I'm not going to spell it out for you."  I'm not sure if this indicates that they're aware that their arguments are weak, or whether this is simply their normal way of thinking, and they expect that rampant jumps to conclusions are actually convincing.
I tend to think they just want to believe themselves to be smart but know, in some way, that they are not.  This makes them angry and self loathing, so they cover it with bluster.  Smart as in raw intelligence and clear thinking.  Sometimes they are the former, but never the latter.  But we have had enough HBs that don't fit this model over the years, so it has a rather limited scope of application. Another theory of mine it excessive testosterone. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on October 07, 2013, 09:05:22 PM
I was reading another conspiracy theorist ("Aliens did it!"), and something struck me, that most of them are very reluctant to fully explain what exactly they mean. They tend to answer questions with obfuscations like "Think about it," or "I'm not going to do your research," or "A + B = C, therefore D = apricot. I'm not going to spell it out for you."  I'm not sure if this indicates that they're aware that their arguments are weak, or whether this is simply their normal way of thinking, and they expect that rampant jumps to conclusions are actually convincing.

That sounds like this guy.....

(http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l548/freezerburn7071/giorgio.jpg)(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/38165810.jpg)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on October 08, 2013, 09:52:46 PM
I have to admit to a certain fondness for that business about "If xyz crater is at the top of the moon when it rises, why is it at the bottom of the moon when it sets?".  There's just something elegant about that level of simple-mindedness.

(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/jarvisn/double-facepalm1_zps9b854ad7.jpg)

It also seems to me that any HB theory notion leads inevitably to the claim of a shadow world government ("Illuminati" or whatever) because there's really no other way to explain why other countries - the USSR in particular - wouldn't have blown the whistle.

Of course, Hunchbacked has his own theory involving the Evile CIA and its worldwide reach. He seems awfully critical of our intelligence community for a citizen of a country whose DGSE is perhaps best known for sinking the Greenpeace flagship.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on October 20, 2013, 05:03:22 PM
Just for the record, Highwic has returned to BAUT here:
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?146819-Planet-X-now-seen-in-constellation%EF%BB%BF-of-Capricornus&p=2163558#post2163558 (http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?146819-Planet-X-now-seen-in-constellation%EF%BB%BF-of-Capricornus&p=2163558#post2163558)
.. with the same old misidentification and dire end-of-world-by-Planet-X-death-on-its-way-any-minute-now-incoming assertions....

To his credit, his post was brief and he didn't give a TEOTWAWKI date which has been his embarrassing undoing many times in the past.  I am tempted to ask him to please explain what's different now to all his previous failures, before he should expect anyone to take this new 'improved' one seriously, but BAUT isn't really my thing these days.. and I just can't be bothered.  Old and cynical I guess!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on October 21, 2013, 05:30:43 PM
Quote
It also seems to me that any HB theory notion leads inevitably to the claim of a shadow world government ("Illuminati" or whatever) because there's really no other way to explain why other countries - the USSR in particular - wouldn't have blown the whistle.

That's what I consider a "tipping point" - either they have to realize that someone, somewhere, would have blown the whistle on whatever they're on about, or else virtually the whole world is in on it. If they go past this point, logical discourse becomes impossible. They think the Moon doesn't exist? What we see is a hologram. Water really isn't wet? If we say it is, it's Illuminati mind control. When they reach this stage, there is no reasoning, because "the PTB did it" is the equivalent of "a wizard did it".
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on October 21, 2013, 05:42:53 PM
Quote
It also seems to me that any HB theory notion leads inevitably to the claim of a shadow world government ("Illuminati" or whatever) because there's really no other way to explain why other countries - the USSR in particular - wouldn't have blown the whistle.

That's what I consider a "tipping point" - either they have to realize that someone, somewhere, would have blown the whistle on whatever they're on about, or else virtually the whole world is in on it. If they go past this point, logical discourse becomes impossible. They think the Moon doesn't exist? What we see is a hologram. Water really isn't wet? If we say it is, it's Illuminati mind control. When they reach this stage, there is no reasoning, because "the PTB did it" is the equivalent of "a wizard did it".
rocky/DavidC/FatFreddy88 is a good example.   He's had to deny the existence of the South Atlantic Anomaly to maintain his viewpoint.  He claims every spacecraft maker in the world is an accomplice to NASA in covering up the "real" space environment.  And, when he claims the "lurker and viewers" at a given board support him, only to have polls showing them disagreeing with him by margins like 19-0 and 293-1, he immediately claims everyone who disagrees with him is a shill or sock-puppet.

When people aren't even allowed to disagree with you honestly, what kind of useful discussion is possible?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: cjameshuff on October 21, 2013, 06:24:30 PM
Solon's weird ideas about light are another. He doesn't seem to deny Apollo, he actually asserts the fact that they didn't see and photograph a sky full of stars as evidence for his theory. Every example that contradicts his beliefs gets ignored or rejected because it can't be proven they didn't use "gratings" or some other magical optical technique. And his conspiracy involves everyone who has ever worked with optics and/or vacuum, so unlike Apollo, it also requires that the conspiracy have started a good century or two ago.

And the Apollo hoax CTs at least have some concept of a motivation for doing it. Solon's CT: they've been trying to keep people from realizing that visible light can't travel through vacuum and stars are only visible due to some hand-waving ionospheric effects because...because.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on October 21, 2013, 08:04:26 PM
Quote
It also seems to me that any HB theory notion leads inevitably to the claim of a shadow world government ("Illuminati" or whatever) because there's really no other way to explain why other countries - the USSR in particular - wouldn't have blown the whistle.

That's what I consider a "tipping point" - either they have to realize that someone, somewhere, would have blown the whistle on whatever they're on about, or else virtually the whole world is in on it. If they go past this point, logical discourse becomes impossible. They think the Moon doesn't exist? What we see is a hologram. Water really isn't wet? If we say it is, it's Illuminati mind control. When they reach this stage, there is no reasoning, because "the PTB did it" is the equivalent of "a wizard did it".

Exactly... "It's turtles all the way down".

I'm sure that there's a term for it, but every hoaxie claim requires a bigger one to make it possible, until it quickly grows to a level of absurdity that the average six-year-old should be able to see through.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Chew on October 21, 2013, 08:11:50 PM
Conspiracy Theorists' First Law of Hoax Conservation: If your hoax theory starts to fall apart, you need to ramp up the crazy.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Chew on October 21, 2013, 08:13:57 PM
Actually, that should probably be the second law? First law should be a hoax theory at rest will never remain at rest for very long and a hoax theory in motion will remain in motion regardless of the facts.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on October 21, 2013, 09:22:57 PM
Solon's weird ideas about light are another. He doesn't seem to deny Apollo, he actually asserts the fact that they didn't see and photograph a sky full of stars as evidence for his theory. Every example that contradicts his beliefs gets ignored or rejected because it can't be proven they didn't use "gratings" or some other magical optical technique. And his conspiracy involves everyone who has ever worked with optics and/or vacuum, so unlike Apollo, it also requires that the conspiracy have started a good century or two ago.
Poor Solon had absolutely terrible research skills.  He'd routinely ask innocently, "Why are there no picture of X taken from Y?", or "Why is there no mention of Z?"  When immediately presented with a dozen examples of things he said didn't exist, he'd put his shoulders to the goalposts and quickly push them into... himself; he contradicted himself a lot

And, yes, he sure does love his gratings.  He pretty much put gratings on every piece of glass in the solar system.  He even proposed that the Shuttle's windshield had gratings, at which I had to point out that I've been in various Orbiters and they had no such thing.  Even Earthbound solar cells were part of the Great Grating Extravaganza.

Which brings up a trait of quite a few conspiracists, namely, the Inability to Leave Anything Out.  According to Solon's own claims, there is no point in solar cells on the ground to have gratings, as they already operate well within his "conversion" zone.   But there's no stopping to think about the superfluity of such a feature, because somewhere he read that some solar cells use some sort of grating, and he was darned well not going to leave that out.

And the Apollo hoax CTs at least have some concept of a motivation for doing it. Solon's CT: they've been trying to keep people from realizing that visible light can't travel through vacuum and stars are only visible due to some hand-waving ionospheric effects because...because.

That's something he never addressed, all right: what was the point of hiding something that could be discovered by any physicist with a decent-sized vacuum chamber?  Funny, when I got my physics degree, they forgot to swear me into the Secret Plane Wave Society.  But, as you noted, Solon's conspiracy pretty much puts an Apollo hoax, JFK, and 9/11 combined into the minor leagues; every physics book ever dealing with EM has to be a hoax.

By the way, he did veer into Apollo hoax land after it was pointed out how the astronauts did see stars during the flights under appropriate circumstances.  (IIRC, he went briefly with the "guilty press conference" routine.). But when I showed the A8 crew seeing the Moon from 50,000 miles, he accepted that and darned if that didn't match his calculations for maximum Moon visibility distance in a vacuum, how about that?   No response to my follow up showing the A10 viewing the Moon from twice that distance...  Except to complain that no wonder it took so long for Lyman Spitzer to get a visible-light space telescope named after him.   Ahem.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on February 05, 2014, 02:10:57 PM
I just granted an interview to NHK (Japan public television).  They're sending a crew out next week to do the interview.

Many of you know of Kevin Overstreet, whose hoax web site (now disabled due to bandwidth limits) got me started on debunking the hoax claims.  You may also know that he now works for me and never was much of a conspiracy theorist.  ("I was only 15!  Give me a break!")  Kevin walked into my office and proposed that he should come along too and we'll make it an intellectual cage match.  :)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on February 10, 2014, 03:46:29 PM
Solon's weird ideas about light are another. He doesn't seem to deny Apollo, he actually asserts the fact that they didn't see and photograph a sky full of stars as evidence for his theory. Every example that contradicts his beliefs gets ignored or rejected because it can't be proven they didn't use "gratings" or some other magical optical technique. And his conspiracy involves everyone who has ever worked with optics and/or vacuum, so unlike Apollo, it also requires that the conspiracy have started a good century or two ago.
Poor Solon had absolutely terrible research skills.  He'd routinely ask innocently, "Why are there no picture of X taken from Y?", or "Why is there no mention of Z?"  When immediately presented with a dozen examples of things he said didn't exist, he'd put his shoulders to the goalposts and quickly push them into... himself; he contradicted himself a lot

And, yes, he sure does love his gratings.  He pretty much put gratings on every piece of glass in the solar system.  He even proposed that the Shuttle's windshield had gratings, at which I had to point out that I've been in various Orbiters and they had no such thing.  Even Earthbound solar cells were part of the Great Grating Extravaganza.

Which brings up a trait of quite a few conspiracists, namely, the Inability to Leave Anything Out.  According to Solon's own claims, there is no point in solar cells on the ground to have gratings, as they already operate well within his "conversion" zone.   But there's no stopping to think about the superfluity of such a feature, because somewhere he read that some solar cells use some sort of grating, and he was darned well not going to leave that out.

And the Apollo hoax CTs at least have some concept of a motivation for doing it. Solon's CT: they've been trying to keep people from realizing that visible light can't travel through vacuum and stars are only visible due to some hand-waving ionospheric effects because...because.

That's something he never addressed, all right: what was the point of hiding something that could be discovered by any physicist with a decent-sized vacuum chamber?  Funny, when I got my physics degree, they forgot to swear me into the Secret Plane Wave Society.  But, as you noted, Solon's conspiracy pretty much puts an Apollo hoax, JFK, and 9/11 combined into the minor leagues; every physics book ever dealing with EM has to be a hoax.

By the way, he did veer into Apollo hoax land after it was pointed out how the astronauts did see stars during the flights under appropriate circumstances.  (IIRC, he went briefly with the "guilty press conference" routine.). But when I showed the A8 crew seeing the Moon from 50,000 miles, he accepted that and darned if that didn't match his calculations for maximum Moon visibility distance in a vacuum, how about that?   No response to my follow up showing the A10 viewing the Moon from twice that distance...  Except to complain that no wonder it took so long for Lyman Spitzer to get a visible-light space telescope named after him.   Ahem.

I wish Solon had not gotten banned, because it became one of my personal Great Mysteries - what was he actually going on about? He was like a stage magician doing an obvious build-up to the Big Reveal, but he never quite got around to it. What was his point? Why would the rest of the scientific world work for hundreds of years to deny the truth? I mean, I can see the point for some alleged scientific truths - yes, if free energy does exist, it would hurt the current energy producers, or if there's an easy cure for cancer hiding in our spice rack, it might worry the pharmaceutical industry. But what is the benefit to anyone about concealing that light cannot be seen in a vacuum? The most he was able to explain was that he believed that if we didn't see glorious photographs of space, that we'd lose interest in space exploration, which is kind of a definitive "weak sauce".

I guess I'll never know if he were leading up to some grand tying together of disparate threads, or if it all boiled down to "my own idiosyncratic studies of light make me think it's invisible in a vacuum, and therefore everyone else must be lying."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'.. (and on gold foil)
Post by: ChrLz on April 07, 2014, 12:16:45 AM
Amidst the quiet.. a small update - Ove and Turbonium are (were..) still feebly waving their flags over at Unexplained Mysteries, but it hasn't gone well.

First, Ove pretty much self-destructed - note to tinfoilhatters, never let me or anyone goad you into nominating your best evidence... :D
Ove's 'best' was an interview that a Russian media crowd did with Alexey Leonov, where Leonov hinted that he had seen Kubrick's wife talk about some imagery he had supposedly done for NASA.  (I believe the source of that might have been a doctored interview that was part of the "Dark Side of the Moon" mockumentary.)  Anyways, I asked him to present the actual images that Kubrick supposedly faked (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=227095&st=2445#entry5125170), and well, let's just say his choices weren't all that good...  Ove has now been banned from that section of the forum.


Then there's turbonium, whose latest 'evidence' is a Nostradamus interpretation (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=263508&st=0).  He chose a known 'fake' translation, and frankly, he has got no traction with anyone over there...

So it seems the last few deniers are disappearing from view, now being subject to derision at any decent forum, or relegated to the completely whacked forums like Icke, or trying (and failing) to get any more than troll attention at Youtube...

It is good to note that occasionally during those threads (the first one is a whopper - Ove just tacked on at the end), an 'odd' person or two may drop by, but most are converted to the Light Side.  And I think a large part of the reason, is the arrogant ignorance of those like Ove and Turb who just ignore questions or countering evidence/argument.  So thanks, Ove and Turb - your utter incompetence is doing wonders to help stamp out the denial...

One other thing:

Here, I discussed a side issue (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=227095&st=2460#entry5126035), namely the application (and earlier removal) of the gold kapton foil to the A11 footpads at the time of 'mating'.... :D.  Does anyone have any better/more accurate/cited information on this?  I've given my interpretation but I guess it is also possible that the foil was at that time covered with plastic protective sheeting.. it just doesn't *look* like that is the case..
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'.. (and on gold foil)
Post by: JayUtah on April 08, 2014, 12:06:07 PM
So it seems the last few deniers are disappearing from view...

Good.  Maybe now I can actually write the book version of the Clavius web site without worrying about it being obsolete out of the gate.  Dwight, you are so fortunate to be able to write history rather than polemics. :)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'.. (and on gold foil)
Post by: ineluki on April 15, 2014, 07:08:58 AM
Then there's turbonium, whose latest 'evidence' is a Nostradamus interpretation (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=263508&st=0). 

It's almost as if he is running some kind of game to see how silly his claims can become before everyone finally stops feeding him.


Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on April 15, 2014, 08:01:52 AM
Then there's turbonium, whose latest 'evidence' is a Nostradamus interpretation (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=263508&st=0). 

It's almost as if he is running some kind of game to see how silly his claims can become before everyone finally stops feeding him.



That's exactly what it looks like.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on April 15, 2014, 11:40:53 AM
I just had to lob in a verbal bomb of my own. Sorry, can't resist.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on April 15, 2014, 04:49:05 PM
And another 'old friend' Rajeev Shagun also turned up at Unexplained Mysteries and pretty much self-destructed (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=227095&st=2580), being unable to respond to us pointing out the numerous errors and clearly deliberate misinformation he was parroting (from Keysing and White, naturally).  He also refused to even acknowledge my usual question, namely "Show us the very best evidence you have and let's debate that..".  That concept seems to strike fear in their hearts with good reason - if their 'best' is easy to debunk, then a number of clear inferences follow..  :D

Anyway, Rajeev has now suffered the same fate and he also has been banned from participating further in any conspiracy threads.

It's been an unproductive month for the Dark Side...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: cjameshuff on September 19, 2014, 11:31:47 AM
Solon's weird ideas about light are another. He doesn't seem to deny Apollo, he actually asserts the fact that they didn't see and photograph a sky full of stars as evidence for his theory. Every example that contradicts his beliefs gets ignored or rejected because it can't be proven they didn't use "gratings" or some other magical optical technique. And his conspiracy involves everyone who has ever worked with optics and/or vacuum, so unlike Apollo, it also requires that the conspiracy have started a good century or two ago.
Poor Solon had absolutely terrible research skills.  He'd routinely ask innocently, "Why are there no picture of X taken from Y?", or "Why is there no mention of Z?"  When immediately presented with a dozen examples of things he said didn't exist, he'd put his shoulders to the goalposts and quickly push them into... himself; he contradicted himself a lot

This just reminded me of poor Solon: https://www.flickr.com/photos/astro_alex/

The metadata on the Milky Way photos indicates he was using a Nikon D3S. Of course, Solon would complain that he wasn't outside, that there's no proof the camera didn't have a grating, that the photo was taken on a Saturday...

Pretty pictures, anyway.

edit:
Another good one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/astro_alex/14436227387/
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on September 19, 2014, 01:47:36 PM
I sometimes think my last words will be, in a tenuous gasp, "Solon ... what the heck was his point, anyway?"
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on October 17, 2014, 01:41:50 PM
I see our old YT friend Hunchbacked is posting hoax videos again. I also see that he still has no clue about angles, perspective, or video artifacts.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on October 17, 2014, 03:07:45 PM
Wow, so much fail right from the start...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Allan F on October 17, 2014, 03:10:41 PM
Has anybody contacted the institution he claims to have graduated from - and verified that he actually is a legitimate aerospace engineer as he claims?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on October 17, 2014, 03:33:33 PM
Has anybody contacted the institution he claims to have graduated from - and verified that he actually is a legitimate aerospace engineer as he claims?

How on earth could he have even got close to being competent in the math required when his understanding of angles is so deficient?

I smell BS.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Allan F on October 17, 2014, 04:09:15 PM
Apparently, somebody (Jay?) has seen his diploma with his real name blacked out. His real name is known, though. I have addressed him on several occasions with his name, and he has not reacted on it.

However - on the picture of the diploma I saw, it looked not quite official enough.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on October 17, 2014, 05:48:10 PM
I see our old YT friend Hunchbacked is posting hoax videos again. I also see that he still has no clue about angles, perspective, or video artifacts.

Ahh, now there's a coincidink..  A certain poster called "Inquisitive Mind" turned up at Unexplained Mysteries (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=272562&st=240#entry5339336) a few days back making a generic handwave about Apollo and linking to a site which included the letters "xpascal".  Seems this same poster had only posted once before since he registered there in 2010 (prolific, huh?) and on that very first pos (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=113834&st=8580#entry3400597)t, he said the same site was his...  I think we may be talking about the same 'hunchbacked' person, even though it is strange he didn't spam his youtube channel.

Anyway, as is my boringly predictable habit, I gently (!) admonished Xavier/hunchbacked for seagull posting and challenged him to nominate his best evidence and debate that in full.  No reply yet, and I suspect he won't be seen again for another couple years, but you never know.

It's really interesting how the tide seems to have now completely gone out at places like UM, where many other conspiracy theories are rife yet Apollo is pretty much accepted (and quite vigorously defended) even by folks who believe many/all other CT's.  I think Apollo denial's day is truly done (although I don't 'hang' at Youtube, so maybe there is a bit of a haven there amongst the trolls and lunatics..).

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: dwight on October 17, 2014, 06:15:07 PM
ChrLz, that is the general perception I have of Apollo denial. It appears to have gone very much out of fashion.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: darren r on October 17, 2014, 07:12:47 PM
ChrLz, that is the general perception I have of Apollo denial. It appears to have gone very much out of fashion.

They occasionally show up on newspaper forums in the UK whenever there is a story about the Moon but they are pretty quickly rounded on and trounced by other commenters.

One recently appeared on the Guardian website and, apart from handwaving about 'Cold War propaganda' and demanding to know 'how they could have got back' (to which the response was 'why do you think they couldn't?') refused to acknowledge any requests that he provide some kind of evidence or even a proper argument.

Curiously, he showed up again a few days later, under a story about a Home Office report about lab animals. Some commenters were arguing, rather thinly, that the report was faked (as it found scant evidence of ill-treatment) and the Moon Hoax believer rushed to its defence, accusing its detractors of being 'conspiracy theorists' in tinfoil hats!

My computer exploded under the weight of the irony, but luckily I was in work.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: dwight on October 17, 2014, 09:47:34 PM
FYI regarding hunchbacked, we were debating video tube burn in a few years back. He wanted evidence that such an effect can happen in tube cameras. I used a video of the Midnight Oil at Goat Island concert from the early '80's, and provided time-code readings to properly refer to the tube-burn the concert clearly displayed for around 20 seconds. Despite having the TCs, told where to look on the screen, and being told what the artefact looked liked, he offered a rebuttal using a sequence of footage no where near the time of the event I used...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on October 18, 2014, 06:35:38 AM
Speaking of old friends, someone claiming to be the brother of Dr. Socks/Patrick Tekeli has turned up ant the forum formerly known as JREF.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10281026&postcount=53 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10281026&postcount=53)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on October 18, 2014, 08:20:03 AM
Speaking of old friends, someone claiming to be the brother of Dr. Socks/Patrick Tekeli has turned up ant the forum formerly known as JREF.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10281026&postcount=53 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10281026&postcount=53)

Actually I'm reading the thread, ChrLz had linked to (Inquisitive Mind). On this thread there was Cosmored active (incl. turbonium and rajeev, two really funny guys at all). Cosmored was another of Tekelis sockpuppets. But I was told, that Tekeli died. Or was this an attention-paying story made by Tekeli either?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gwiz on October 18, 2014, 08:28:27 AM
Actually I'm reading the thread, ChrLz had linked to (Inquisitive Mind). On this thread there was Cosmored active (incl. turbonium and rajeev, two really funny guys at all). Cosmored was another of Tekelis sockpuppets. But I was told, that Tekeli died. Or was this an attention-paying story made by Tekeli either?
No Cosmored has been around for a long time, no Tekeli connection.  He's one of those people who demand that you buy into all his beliefs, of which he has many, or else you can't be believed or trusted.  Applies the phrase "government disinformation" to any evidence he doesn't like.

I think he was banned from here years ago for being a sock of a previously banned poster.  Rocky? DavidC? Both?
Title: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Sus_pilot on October 18, 2014, 08:33:25 AM

Speaking of old friends, someone claiming to be the brother of Dr. Socks/Patrick Tekeli has turned up ant the forum formerly known as JREF.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10281026&postcount=53 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10281026&postcount=53)

Well, I posted what I hope was a civil reply.  Let's see if he responds...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on October 18, 2014, 08:35:50 AM
No Cosmored has been around for a long time, no Tekeli connection.  He's one of those people who demand that you buy into all his beliefs, of which he has many, or else you can't be believed or trusted.  Applies the phrase "government disinformation" to any evidence he doesn't like.

Oops, seems that I mixed some names. I was sure, in the list of Tekelis socks there was the name Cosmored included. But ok, I'm wrong, I can deal with this  ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on October 18, 2014, 08:41:21 AM
Speaking of old friends, someone claiming to be the brother of Dr. Socks/Patrick Tekeli has turned up ant the forum formerly known as JREF.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10281026&postcount=53 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10281026&postcount=53)

Actually I'm reading the thread, ChrLz had linked to (Inquisitive Mind). On this thread there was Cosmored active (incl. turbonium and rajeev, two really funny guys at all). Cosmored was another of Tekelis sockpuppets. But I was told, that Tekeli died. Or was this an attention-paying story made by Tekeli either?
Cosmored is not a Tekeli sock.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on October 18, 2014, 08:51:25 AM
Cosmored is not a Tekeli sock.

Yepp, got it. My mistake.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AstroBrant on October 18, 2014, 09:54:51 AM
Cosmored is not a Tekeli sock.

Isn't Cosmored the one who someone made a video about, showing that he got banned from about 50 different forums, including many which had absolutely nothing to do with Apollo?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on October 18, 2014, 10:06:13 AM
Cosmored is not a Tekeli sock.

Isn't Cosmored the one who someone made a video about, showing that he got banned from about 50 different forums, including many which had absolutely nothing to do with Apollo?
Sounds about right.
He's active on the Spurstalk forum (a basketball forum) because they seem to have lax moderation.  He's got a thread either there or on another forum complaining about censorship on the internet.  He never realizes that being banned for your behavior on a privately owned forum has nothing to do with freedom of speech.  In his mind, he should never be banned even when his first post on a forum makes him look like a troll because of the 50+ youtube links.  If he makes it past that he still shouldn't be banned even when he inevitably degrades into whining about his treatment on other forums, or how his rigged objectivity tests (if you don't agree with him EXACTLY on some particular issue you must be a shill) prove everyone in the world is a shill but him.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on October 18, 2014, 10:11:59 AM
Tekeli posted here as fattydash, on JREF as Patrick1000.

Cosmored and Rocky here correspond to FatFreddy88 at JREF and various other names elsewhere.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: sts60 on October 18, 2014, 10:40:27 AM
I think he was banned from here years ago for being a sock of a previously banned poster.  Rocky? DavidC? Both?
Both, not to mention FatFreddy88 on JREF.

ETA: Bah!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on October 19, 2014, 10:34:26 AM
And indeed it's starting to sound like the reports of Patrick Tekeli's demise have been somewhat exaggerated.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on October 19, 2014, 03:29:13 PM
Oh!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on October 19, 2014, 03:34:49 PM
...either that or his brother Michael is just as messed up as Patrick was.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on October 19, 2014, 04:04:11 PM
...either that or his brother Michael is just as messed up as Patrick was.

There's another Tekeli?  :o
I should avoid to discuss with him, I prefer my mental health to be well.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on October 19, 2014, 04:07:21 PM
Talking directly with any of these hoax claimants can be hazardous to one's mental health.  But yes, Patrick "Doctor Socks" Tekeli was particularly aggravating simply because he was so consistently dishonest.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on October 19, 2014, 05:44:35 PM
No Cosmored has been around for a long time, no Tekeli connection.  He's one of those people who demand that you buy into all his beliefs, of which he has many, or else you can't be believed or trusted.  Applies the phrase "government disinformation" to any evidence he doesn't like.
Oops, seems that I mixed some names. I was sure, in the list of Tekelis socks there was the name Cosmored included. But ok, I'm wrong, I can deal with this  ;D
I can't say I am surprised. Dr. Socks acquired that moniker because he had so many socks on so many sites it is impossible to track them all. At one point it got so bad that anyone signing up at a whole bunch of sites was immediately suspected of being another sock.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on October 19, 2014, 05:57:38 PM
Yes, exactly the problem.  Each month brought a new sock-puppet nickname with a new fabricated backstory.  The latter is what kills me.  I will give anyone credit for the knowledge he has and the experiences he's had, as long as he or she is honest about it.  But if you feel that you need to invent a "character" to make your point, then I don't really have much respect for you.  It trivializes the whole experience.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on October 20, 2014, 09:43:26 AM
Sort of weird - someone showed up recently on the JREF claiming to be Tekeli's brother, and defending him very aggressively. Whoever the poster was, it sounded just like one of Dr. Socks' puppets. Could grandiose thinking be a family trait?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on October 20, 2014, 11:06:16 AM
Self-employed conspiracy lover with time on his hands posts all over the internet using his brother's identity to cover his ass, but his hobby gets disrupted when his brother inconveniently dies....

Probably has no basis in truth at all, but it's as good a conspiracy as any other...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 20, 2014, 12:07:45 PM
Michael T certainly has the Fatty Dash attitude.  A familial trait? A return from a faked death and a long stay in a place with no internet?  A resurrection?  Enquiring minds want to know!

Alas, the familial trait theory is most likely and also the least intriguing, and Michael is indeed who he claims to be.  Michael is doing no good at repairing the Faddy Dash reputation.  If he had only given us a rational explanation for such irrational behavior instead of modeling it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on October 20, 2014, 12:35:27 PM
Self-employed conspiracy lover with time on his hands posts all over the internet using his brother's identity to cover his ass, but his hobby gets disrupted when his brother inconveniently dies....

Probably has no basis in truth at all, but it's as good a conspiracy as any other...

You know, that's quite an intriguing one!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: darren r on October 20, 2014, 02:25:20 PM
Self-employed conspiracy lover with time on his hands posts all over the internet using his brother's identity to cover his ass, but his hobby gets disrupted when his brother inconveniently dies....

Probably has no basis in truth at all, but it's as good a conspiracy as any other...

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the theory I heard about a while back, based on the belief that Dr Socks didn't come across as the sort of person that would have the accomplishments and qualifications that he was claiming but was obviously on fairly intimate terms with the person who did.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on October 20, 2014, 02:40:21 PM
Considering the time of year this is, it's probably appropriate that we are dealing with a Zombie Sockpuppet.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on October 20, 2014, 03:02:34 PM
Considering the time of year this is, it's probably appropriate that we are dealing with a Zombie Sockpuppet.

I wonder if he visits Jockndoris?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 20, 2014, 03:21:41 PM
Self-employed conspiracy lover with time on his hands posts all over the internet using his brother's identity to cover his ass, but his hobby gets disrupted when his brother inconveniently dies....

Probably has no basis in truth at all, but it's as good a conspiracy as any other...

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the theory I heard about a while back, based on the belief that Dr Socks didn't come across as the sort of person that would have the accomplishments and qualifications that he was claiming but was obviously on fairly intimate terms with the person who did.

Many people have friends or relatives that start off living quirky but accomplished lives only to have the quirks overrule the accomplishments as time passes.  Such seems to be the case for Dr.T.  The bits of his personal life that I found on the Internet led me to the view of a man that did many things with a idiosyncratic passion and told self promoting stories about them without letting mere facts get in the way.  At least that is what he did one home brew forum.  Which is OK, even endearing to some, when discussing beer making or bicycles.  But it ceases to be a endearing quirk when discussing patient's health.  He certainly approached Apollo with a pretty much with a "this is my story and the facts be damned" narrative.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AstroBrant on October 20, 2014, 09:58:00 PM
In his mind, he should never be banned even when his first post on a forum makes him look like a troll because of the 50+ youtube links. 

(Re. Cosmored)
Okay, yeah, that's the guy I was thinking of. I've never seen anyone else quite like him. He will make a gratuitous on-topic one-liner or a frequently spammed copy-n-paste paragraph followed by 50 to 100 lines of links to other threads where he has commented. Often, when you go to one of those threads, you will find the same thing: dozens of links to still other threads.

Here are the two videos about Cosmored's behavior that I was referring to earlier, by Betamax101:



Pay particular attention to time stamp 2:23 - 2:37, in the second video.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on October 20, 2014, 10:14:44 PM
In his mind, he should never be banned even when his first post on a forum makes him look like a troll because of the 50+ youtube links. 

(Re. Cosmored)
Okay, yeah, that's the guy I was thinking of. I've never seen anyone else quite like him. He will make a gratuitous on-topic one-liner or a frequently spammed copy-n-paste paragraph followed by 50 to 100 lines of links to other threads where he has commented. Often, when you go to one of those threads, you will find the same thing: dozens of links to still other threads.

Here are the two videos about Cosmored's behavior that I was referring to earlier, by Betamax101:



Pay particular attention to time stamp 2:23 - 2:37, in the second video.

Not only do you find links to other threads, often if you keep following them they'll lead you back in a full circle.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on October 20, 2014, 10:28:31 PM
Yes, he links to himself as an authority.  He'll post links upon links to document "what's being said" on some topic.  But when you unravel his myriad nicknames you discover he's just referring to all the other places where he himself has spammed the same claims.

JREF won't allow him to post links anymore.  So he basically avoids the forum now, trying to draw everyone to Spurstalk where he is the resident village idiot.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on October 21, 2014, 09:34:11 AM

(Re. Cosmored)
Okay, yeah, that's the guy I was thinking of. I've never seen anyone else quite like him. He will make a gratuitous on-topic one-liner or a frequently spammed copy-n-paste paragraph followed by 50 to 100 lines of links to other threads where he has commented. Often, when you go to one of those threads, you will find the same thing: dozens of links to still other threads.

Here are the two videos about Cosmored's behavior that I was referring to earlier, by Betamax101:



Pay particular attention to time stamp 2:23 - 2:37, in the second video.

Some days ago I thought Cosmored is another sockpuppet of Tegeli. Now I know, it's not. So to get the facts straight I have to ask: Cosmored = CosmicDave?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on October 21, 2014, 09:55:06 AM

(Re. Cosmored)
Okay, yeah, that's the guy I was thinking of. I've never seen anyone else quite like him. He will make a gratuitous on-topic one-liner or a frequently spammed copy-n-paste paragraph followed by 50 to 100 lines of links to other threads where he has commented. Often, when you go to one of those threads, you will find the same thing: dozens of links to still other threads.

Here are the two videos about Cosmored's behavior that I was referring to earlier, by Betamax101:



Pay particular attention to time stamp 2:23 - 2:37, in the second video.

Some days ago I thought Cosmored is another sockpuppet of Tegeli. Now I know, it's not. So to get the facts straight I have to ask: Cosmored = CosmicDave?
No.  Cosmo is far more out there and irrational.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 21, 2014, 10:14:10 AM
It is very hard to tell the players without a program. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on October 21, 2014, 11:14:01 AM
Cosmored = CosmicDave?

Nope.  Cosmic Dave is David Cosnette.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on October 21, 2014, 11:20:40 AM
Cosmored = CosmicDave?

Nope.  Cosmic Dave is David Cosnette.

Although another name Cosmored often goes by is DavidC so it is easy to confuse.  I still don't think they're the same person.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on October 21, 2014, 11:31:39 AM
Cosmored = CosmicDave?

Nope.  Cosmic Dave is David Cosnette.

Hm. Close but no cigar, I guess  :D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on October 21, 2014, 11:33:02 AM

Although another name Cosmored often goes by is DavidC so it is easy to confuse.  I still don't think they're the same person.

Referring to Jays response it seems, I confused the names.  :)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on October 21, 2014, 11:41:44 AM
I personally like the theory that he's a bot.  A poster on spurstalk has made the accusation multiple times and he's yet to address it.  It could explain a lot.    :)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on October 21, 2014, 12:34:19 PM
It is very hard to tell the players without a program. 

I've sometimes thought of putting one together.  We all know who some of these people are, because we've interacted with them for years.  So one of us makes a joke about sock puppets or some other reference to a particular HB, and we think it's funny--but someone who hasn't dealt with the infamous Dr. Socks doesn't get it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on October 21, 2014, 12:36:57 PM

Although another name Cosmored often goes by is DavidC so it is easy to confuse.  I still don't think they're the same person.

Referring to Jays response it seems, I confused the names.  :)
It's hardly surprising. Cosmored/ScottC/FatFreddy/lots of variations often gets lampooned by members of whichever forum he is spamming by the simple task of registering an account under one of his known other aliases. This gives rise to the odd spectacle of him appearing to argue with himself until you get the gag. For example, FatFreddy88 over at spurstalk is not him, just some comedian who registered the name to troll cosmored. This happened on sciforums as well.

Here are two yootoobs. 2:48 each and they list just some of the places where cosmored has spammed his nonsense. The guy is prolific if nothing else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn41RM-x4wA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn41RM-x4wA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYLwKqPn-YU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYLwKqPn-YU)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 21, 2014, 01:25:04 PM
I've sometimes thought of putting one together.

It would be an interesting history project.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on October 21, 2014, 01:31:29 PM
I've sometimes thought of putting one together.

It would be an interesting history project.

Hey, that's a good idea. So we can address all claims in one go.  ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 21, 2014, 02:56:55 PM
Each HB listed by his primary name(s) with links indicating the various strength of the sock puppet connection.  Such as time from the name's banning of one on a forum to the appearance of the next name.  And the connections across various forums.   The accompanying text can describe the posting topics and style of each and make the case for and against the connection.

          FattyDash -> Patrick1000 -> Skinny Splash?

Call it an applied humanities research project for the cause!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on October 22, 2014, 06:44:38 PM
I see our old YT friend Hunchbacked is posting hoax videos again. I also see that he still has no clue about angles, perspective, or video artifacts.
Ahh, now there's a coincidink..  A certain poster called "Inquisitive Mind"...

ChrLz, you may or may not be aware, but Hunchbacked posted here a few years ago (well, on the old forum) as InquisitiveMind, and his YT page links to his home page under his real name, so, yes, Hunchbacked=InquisitiveMind=Xavier Pascal, which he's never really made any secret of AFAIK.

Here's a link to the old thread. It's really pretty amusing.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/thread/3011/illogical-travel-lem-moon (http://apollohoax.proboards.com/thread/3011/illogical-travel-lem-moon)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on October 22, 2014, 08:57:02 PM
Here's a link to the old thread. It's really pretty amusing.
Amusing and infuriating at the same time. To quote Ensign Chekov: "a curious mixture".
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on October 23, 2014, 05:34:58 AM
...
ChrLz, you may or may not be aware, but Hunchbacked posted here a few years ago (well, on the old forum) as InquisitiveMind, and his YT page links to his home page under his real name, so, yes, Hunchbacked=InquisitiveMind=Xavier Pascal, which he's never really made any secret of AFAIK.

Here's a link to the old thread. It's really pretty amusing.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/thread/3011/illogical-travel-lem-moon (http://apollohoax.proboards.com/thread/3011/illogical-travel-lem-moon)

No, I wasn't aware of Xavier's previous.. and I thank you for that thread - very entertaining!  I've only got to pages 7 and 8, I don't think I have seen a more comprehensive thrashing of a denier's claim - I can't wait to see his responses...  And those animated gif's in the first post - what absolute classics!  I think I may have a use for some of them if he pops his head up again over at Unexplained Mysteries.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on October 23, 2014, 06:26:47 AM
BTW, just in case anyone misses this, here's a heads up involving:

Leslie Kean
Col Charles Halt
(Dr) Richard Haines
Thomas Carey

.. who are all participating in a UFO 'Panel Event' that is, seemingly, endorsed by a University and supported by a Professor there as part of their Honors program!   I've started a thread here (http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=680.0), and the original story about this (from Alejandro Rojas - groan..) is here (http://www.openminds.tv/american-university-hold-ufo-panel-discussion/30524), plus the American University's spiel is here (http://www.american.edu/provost/honors/specialevents.cfm)..

I find this rather disturbing, and I hope some like-minded folk may be in that area and able to attend, in the forlorn hope that there might be a question time..
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on October 23, 2014, 10:46:05 AM
...
ChrLz, you may or may not be aware, but Hunchbacked posted here a few years ago (well, on the old forum) as InquisitiveMind, and his YT page links to his home page under his real name, so, yes, Hunchbacked=InquisitiveMind=Xavier Pascal, which he's never really made any secret of AFAIK.

Here's a link to the old thread. It's really pretty amusing.
http://apollohoax.proboards.com/thread/3011/illogical-travel-lem-moon (http://apollohoax.proboards.com/thread/3011/illogical-travel-lem-moon)

No, I wasn't aware of Xavier's previous.. and I thank you for that thread - very entertaining!  I've only got to pages 7 and 8, I don't think I have seen a more comprehensive thrashing of a denier's claim - I can't wait to see his responses...  And those animated gif's in the first post - what absolute classics!  I think I may have a use for some of them if he pops his head up again over at Unexplained Mysteries.

I especially love the way he never really gets very far into his main argument because his first premise (the CSM-LM stack orbital orientation) fails so massively. 

One thing about Hunchy, though - he is one of the most civil of the HBs; he seldom if ever goes into a rant or seems to get angry. He just goes happily along convinced that he is right about the most ridiculous claims, even in the face of massive evidence to the contrary.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: mako88sb on October 23, 2014, 04:12:56 PM

...


I especially love the way he never really gets very far into his main argument because his first premise (the CSM-LM stack orbital orientation) fails so massively. 

One thing about Hunchy, though - he is one of the most civil of the HBs; he seldom if ever goes into a rant or seems to get angry. He just goes happily along convinced that he is right about the most ridiculous claims, even in the face of massive evidence to the contrary.


I stumbled upon another youtube name he"s been going under, "Imposture Lune", mainly used to post his videos in French it would seem. He and YDDES have a brief debate here from about a week ago concerning triangulation and the doppler effect:

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr_Orpheus on October 23, 2014, 10:09:26 PM
I noticed something interesting.  In his first post on the International Skeptics Forum Skinny Splash gave his post a title the same way his brother liked to add titles to his many of his posts.  I haven't seen many users do that.  Could this a hint that he was impersonating his brother all along?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 23, 2014, 10:35:32 PM
There seems to be some smart money riding on that bet.  How ever it leaves open the question as to why someone who was as irrepressible as FattyDash/P1K just disappeared at the about the time Dr.T died.  Where would Michael T have gone that could have kept him off the internet for this time? Or what other reason could there be that he stopped posting as P1K?  And why come back now?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Tedward on October 24, 2014, 02:17:09 AM
BTW, just in case anyone misses this, here's a heads up involving:

Leslie Kean
Col Charles Halt
(Dr) Richard Haines
Thomas Carey

.. who are all participating in a UFO 'Panel Event' that is, seemingly, endorsed by a University and supported by a Professor there as part of their Honors program!   I've started a thread here (http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/index.php?topic=680.0), and the original story about this (from Alejandro Rojas - groan..) is here (http://www.openminds.tv/american-university-hold-ufo-panel-discussion/30524), plus the American University's spiel is here (http://www.american.edu/provost/honors/specialevents.cfm)..

I find this rather disturbing, and I hope some like-minded folk may be in that area and able to attend, in the forlorn hope that there might be a question time..
Oh dear, Kean (Mrs or Miss or Ms?) squirming away with the insect in the Chilean UFO really an insect was embarrassing even from my point of view.

Another book sale?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr_Orpheus on October 24, 2014, 04:57:47 AM
There seems to be some smart money riding on that bet.  How ever it leaves open the question as to why someone who was as irrepressible as FattyDash/P1K just disappeared at the about the time Dr.T died.  Where would Michael T have gone that could have kept him off the internet for this time? Or what other reason could there be that he stopped posting as P1K?  And why come back now?

Perhaps, his brother's death left him feeling guilty for impersonating him.  By now, he has recovered enough to resume his campaign to bust them Apollo perps. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on October 24, 2014, 07:05:58 AM
This whole thing with the Tekelis sounds like a... conspiracy.

*ducks, and runs for cover*
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on October 24, 2014, 07:22:50 AM
Maybe the ghost of P1K will visit Michael and tell him that he played golf in a foursome with Neil Burns, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin at a Navy Golf course in Hawaii on July 20, 1969.

*joins Andromeda wherever he ran to after ducking and running for cover*
 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 24, 2014, 08:16:14 AM
Skinny Splash had this to say.

Quote
Pat and I are close!

Making the smart money bet seem a bit smarter. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on October 24, 2014, 10:02:40 AM
The Skinny Splash situation is getting really weird. Are we absolutely sure there is no internet access beyond the grave?

Because yes, it either sounds like Skinny Splash is someone with exactly the same mindset and way of communicating as Dr. Socks (family trait?), or else they are the original Dr. Socks, and the late Dr. Tekeli was used as a front. He died, and they had to go undercover for a while, but absolutely couldn't contain themselves any longer.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 24, 2014, 10:44:48 AM
The Skinny Splash situation is getting really weird. Are we absolutely sure there is no internet access beyond the grave?

Or Skinny Splash has recently returned from living in a place with no internet access.  A residency that began about the time Dr.T died.


Quote from: Hunter S. Thompson
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr_Orpheus on October 24, 2014, 01:31:11 PM
Maybe the Chinese radar technician, the young sextant expert, or one of those other chess playing,  hoax believing doctors will return to defend Pat's honor. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on October 24, 2014, 02:52:47 PM
This whole thing with the Tekelis sounds like a... conspiracy.

*ducks, and runs for cover*

SILENCE.... I KILL YOU

Argh sorry, this was my mental alter ego Ahmed  ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Andromeda on October 24, 2014, 04:58:52 PM
Maybe the ghost of P1K will visit Michael and tell him that he played golf in a foursome with Neil Burns, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin at a Navy Golf course in Hawaii on July 20, 1969.

*joins Andromeda wherever he ran to after ducking and running for cover*

Ahem... "she".
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on October 24, 2014, 05:59:49 PM
Maybe the ghost of P1K will visit Michael and tell him that he played golf in a foursome with Neil Burns, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin at a Navy Golf course in Hawaii on July 20, 1969.

*joins Andromeda wherever he ran to after ducking and running for cover*

Ahem... "she".

Apologies Maam, it wont happen again!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on October 25, 2014, 07:39:29 AM
The mods at ISF (where I post as Pooneil) have shut down the discussions into the association between Skinny Splash and P1K.  So it looks like we will never get a full answer from SS about P1K/DrT.  As if a clarification was forthcoming anyway.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr_Orpheus on October 25, 2014, 11:42:09 AM
The mods at ISF (where I post as Pooneil) have shut down the discussions into the association between Skinny Splash and P1K.  So it looks like we will never get a full answer from SS about P1K/DrT.  As if a clarification was forthcoming anyway.

I noticed something else interesting.  Skinny Splash said he was "Fatty Dash's" big brother.   Patrick repeatedly denied being fattydash.   Here are the specific posts where Patrick1000 explained/invented who fattydash really was.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7466877&postcount=119 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7466877&postcount=119)

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7466982&postcount=124 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7466982&postcount=124)

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on December 01, 2014, 06:15:48 PM
Skinny Splash showed up at ISF today to nominate one of my posts (as Pooneil) for the Language Award.  The idea of the award is for "outstanding use of language"  and its quite apparent that was not the reason for the nomination.  The reason seams to be that since the original tread was closed and there was no other way to respond.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10349311#post10349311

He did at least address my question, although the answer was characteristically beside the point.  I mean really!  How does being a pushup champion help to reconcile the lunacy of P1K and and his socks to a the claim he was a skilled physician and scientist?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: HeadLikeARock on December 01, 2014, 06:18:35 PM
Spurstalk? There's Apollohoax discussion on a football forum?

Football?  I thought it was the San Antonino Spurs basketball.

I think this is a case of you say tomato, I say potato.

In England, Spurs is the nickname of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. That's proper football, i.e. soccer! ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on December 01, 2014, 06:40:35 PM
That's proper football.

It simply cannot be "proper" football unless the players use their hands most of the time.     ???   That is the way God made football to be played.   ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on December 01, 2014, 08:09:41 PM
That's proper football.

It simply cannot be "proper" football unless the players use their hands most of the time.     ???   That is the way God made football to be played.   ;)
Confirmed, just ask virtually any Yank, 'Nuck, or Aussie ;)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on December 01, 2014, 09:18:59 PM
That's proper football.

It simply cannot be "proper" football unless the players use their hands most of the time.     ???   That is the way God made football to be played.   ;)
Confirmed, just ask virtually any Yank, 'Nuck, or Aussie ;)

Nah. What the yanks call "football" was a ripped-off version of Rugby Football that has been modified almost beyond recognition. All the padding, helmets came along later because the poor darling didn't want to get hurt!

It has always been a source of mild amusement for me that American Football's main scoring method is called a "touchdown" when in fact they don't have to touch the ball down, while Rugby Football's main scoring method is not called a touchdown but they do!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: carpediem on December 02, 2014, 06:06:45 AM
Skinny Splash showed up at ISF today to nominate one of my posts (as Pooneil) for the Language Award.  The idea of the award is for "outstanding use of language"  and its quite apparent that was not the reason for the nomination.  The reason seams to be that since the original tread was closed and there was no other way to respond.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10349311#post10349311

He did at least address my question, although the answer was characteristically beside the point.  I mean really!  How does being a pushup champion help to reconcile the lunacy of P1K and and his socks to a the claim he was a skilled physician and scientist?

Quote
Dr Socks did 717 push-ups in about an hour this event that took place at his Alma mater UC Berkeley last weekend during Stanford & Cal's annual Big game.

I think apparently being a zombie push up champion is actually quite impressive.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on December 02, 2014, 07:14:40 AM
I think apparently being a zombie push up champion is actually quite impressive.

Dr Socks' unique talents have made an impression on many people.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luke Pemberton on December 02, 2014, 01:53:17 PM
It simply cannot be "proper" football unless the players use their hands most of the time.     ???
Agreed, there is nothing better than rugby.

Quote
That is the way God made football to be played.   ;)
Agreed, there is nothing better than rugby.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on December 02, 2014, 01:58:22 PM
It simply cannot be "proper" football unless the players use their hands most of the time.     ???
Agreed, there is nothing better than rugby.

Quote
That is the way God made football to be played.   ;)
Agreed, there is nothing better than rugby.
I'm Irish, so you can guess what I think.  :D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on December 02, 2014, 03:05:39 PM
It simply cannot be "proper" football unless the players use their hands most of the time.     ???   That is the way God made football to be played.   ;)

Ahem...

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on December 02, 2014, 06:18:32 PM
"Four seconds of violence followed by a beer commercial" is why I don't watch football much any more. For all the hubbub, it is really a very slow game. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on December 02, 2014, 11:34:05 PM
Yeah, I have a whole rant riffing on that fact.
If I watch any sport, it's ice hockey. While not as flowing a game as soccer, it's way more than football, and, damn, they move fast in those skates. Like soccer, there is a goalie, which means getting to the far side is but the beginning.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on December 02, 2014, 11:53:53 PM
I'm not really a sport purist.  American football uses an egg-shaped ball and moves it primarily by hand.  Calling it "football" is primarily historical; calling it "handegg" would be more accurate but also more stupid.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on December 03, 2014, 01:22:49 AM
I've never seen an egg that looked like an American or Canadian football. So even 'handegg' don't exactly describe it. Rugby football sure, but not gridiron.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Tedward on December 03, 2014, 03:27:11 AM
Thought grid iron was what we use to cook steaks on?

Egg chasers is a term used by some football fans (not the whirly around things and kicking the round thing around fans). That is that term used for Rugby and wonder if it is meant as a form of derision by some.

Some stadiums in the UK now share between the two sports and it upset some of the footy fans however it made financial sense (according to financial directors when interview).

Now, someone have a word with the Welsh Squad and warn them to stop messing around and pull their fingers out before the Six Nations.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on December 03, 2014, 06:05:38 AM
"Four seconds of violence followed by a beer commercial" is why I don't watch football much any more. For all the hubbub, it is really a very slow game.
And of course the beer commercials are invariably more entertaining. At least during the Super Bowl, about the only football game I ever turn on -- and then to watch the commercials and tune out the game.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on December 03, 2014, 07:55:31 AM
Calling it "football" is primarily historical; calling it "handegg" would be more accurate but also more stupid.

While it is fun to be snobby whine about what  "football" really is and who should use it, the Cleese rant and others get tiring.  All football games are derived from a similar but but diverse historical source, as you say, and have equal rights to the name.  And of course "Soccer" was an invention of the Football Association in an attempt to differentiate its style of play from other forms of football. And talking about snobby whines, anyone insisting that a ball has to be round is lacking imagination. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on December 03, 2014, 08:06:59 AM
Thought grid iron was what we use to cook steaks on?


You need to get up to date on the latest in cooking trends, my friend.  Himalayan Salt Slabs‎ are the new rave for cooking steak. Or more regularly by the more heath minded, fish. They have taken over from the passe cedar plank for gourmet grilling.  Searing marks on the steak are now a sign that the chef is out of touch.   ;)

Of course here in the South, the bacon wrapped, jalapeno and cream cheese stuffed pork tenderloin still rules.  But it is best not to examine such things too closely. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Tedward on December 03, 2014, 09:20:56 AM
To be honest, I am more along the lines of rare. If a good vet can get it going again, just right.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: HeadLikeARock on December 03, 2014, 12:11:20 PM
It has always been a source of mild amusement for me that American Football's main scoring method is called a "touchdown" when in fact they don't have to touch the ball down, while Rugby Football's main scoring method is not called a touchdown but they do!

In fairness, in rugby we also have a try... if we were taking Yoda's advice, it should really be called a "do", since it's something that has actually been achieved.

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on December 03, 2014, 12:23:39 PM
It has always been a source of mild amusement for me that American Football's main scoring method is called a "touchdown" when in fact they don't have to touch the ball down, while Rugby Football's main scoring method is not called a touchdown but they do!

In fairness, in rugby we also have a try... if we were taking Yoda's advice, it should really be called a "do", since it's something that has actually been achieved.

As I recall crossing the line allowed you to have a 'try' at scoring a goal through the sticks.

Someone must have realised eventually that the former was much more exciting.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on December 03, 2014, 12:57:43 PM
Skinny Splash's post has been removed from the nomination thread and put back under the closed thread where it came from.  It would seem that ICF is just not the place to discuss the departed Dr.T's personal life. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on December 03, 2014, 02:21:50 PM
It would seem that ICF is just not the place to discuss the departed Dr.T's personal life.

Clearly not.  Patrick1000 was banned ostensibly for making legal threats against the JREF management.  If that's the case, the moderators will naturally avoid content that may provide evidence of exactly the sort of liability Patrick1000 threatened.  However I find it especially telling that Skinny Splash's major focus appears to be convincing everyone that Patrick1000 really was Patrick Tekeli, MD -- and what a wonderful person Tekeli was.  The Push-Up red herring is no different than Tekeli the Famous Bicycle Designer.  I think his effort is motivated more by avoiding the speculation that all along it has been Michael Tekeli the relatively unimpressive and patently conspiracist brother.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Mag40 on December 03, 2014, 03:45:13 PM
It would seem that ICF is just not the place to discuss the departed Dr.T's personal life.

Clearly not.  Patrick1000 was banned ostensibly for making legal threats against the JREF management.  If that's the case, the moderators will naturally avoid content that may provide evidence of exactly the sort of liability Patrick1000 threatened.  However I find it especially telling that Skinny Splash's major focus appears to be convincing everyone that Patrick1000 really was Patrick Tekeli, MD -- and what a wonderful person Tekeli was.  The Push-Up red herring is no different than Tekeli the Famous Bicycle Designer.  I think his effort is motivated more by avoiding the speculation that all along it has been Michael Tekeli the relatively unimpressive and patently conspiracist brother.

Didn't the mad doc do a voice over on his videos that matched the voice over on his banjo playing?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on December 05, 2014, 01:47:27 PM
I don't know; I'm not sure I ever saw either of the videos.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr_Orpheus on December 06, 2014, 06:21:49 AM
  I think his effort is motivated more by avoiding the speculation that all along it has been Michael Tekeli the relatively unimpressive and patently conspiracist brother.

I'd agree, but the only thing that puzzles me is why Michael hasn't continued his campaign to bust Apollo perps by creating new socks all over the place.  Maybe he feels guilty about making his brother look like a moron and it just isn't much fun anymore.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on December 07, 2014, 11:21:14 AM
Speaking of FatFreddy88/Cosmored, here's as fine an example of thread necromancy as you're likely to see:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125628&page=24

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on December 07, 2014, 11:31:25 AM
Yeah, the typical linkspam about how all his discussions were cut short just as he was about to be brilliant.  He and Adrian will certainly get along well.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on December 07, 2014, 01:56:33 PM
Speaking of FatFreddy88/Cosmored, here's as fine an example of thread necromancy as you're likely to see:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125628&page=24



He says on his spurstalk post about the DavidIcke forum post (he's got a thread where he claims censorship everytime he gets banned for posting his wall of linkspam) that he stopped posting on the DI forum because they were deleting his posts.  What he doesn't say is at the time he stopped posting he also claimed that the DI forum was influenced by the government/run by NASA/full of shills or whatever his current nutty excuse was.  Anything to avoid taking any personal responsibility.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on December 07, 2014, 02:47:11 PM
Speaking of FatFreddy88/Cosmored, here's as fine an example of thread necromancy as you're likely to see:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125628&page=24



He says on his spurstalk post about the DavidIcke forum post (he's got a thread where he claims censorship everytime he gets banned for posting his wall of linkspam) that he stopped posting on the DI forum because they were deleting his posts.  What he doesn't say is at the time he stopped posting he also claimed that the DI forum was influenced by the government/run by NASA/full of shills or whatever his current nutty excuse was.  Anything to avoid taking any personal responsibility.


Hang on! He claimed that because he was banned from the DavidIcke forums, that those forums are NASA shill infested and government backed?

Is this the same David Icke that is a conspiracy theorist and a holocaust denier?

 

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on December 07, 2014, 03:10:46 PM
Speaking of FatFreddy88/Cosmored, here's as fine an example of thread necromancy as you're likely to see:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125628&page=24



He says on his spurstalk post about the DavidIcke forum post (he's got a thread where he claims censorship everytime he gets banned for posting his wall of linkspam) that he stopped posting on the DI forum because they were deleting his posts.  What he doesn't say is at the time he stopped posting he also claimed that the DI forum was influenced by the government/run by NASA/full of shills or whatever his current nutty excuse was.  Anything to avoid taking any personal responsibility.


Hang on! He claimed that because he was banned from the DavidIcke forums, that those forums are NASA shill infested and government backed?

Is this the same David Icke that is a conspiracy theorist and a holocaust denier?

 



Not banned.  Just that he stopped posting because of those reasons.  But yes, the same.

For those that missed it, Cosmored/DavidC was also on the Unexplained Mysteries forum this week posting as "drifty".  He was banned in less than 2 hours because he'd been banned there before and doesn't even try to hide his posting style.  The only reason the few posts he made didn't have his usual wall of link spam is they were too long so instead he just posted a single link to the spurstalk forum that had his wall of link spam instead. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on December 07, 2014, 05:00:25 PM
Speaking of FatFreddy88/Cosmored, here's as fine an example of thread necromancy as you're likely to see:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125628&page=24



He says on his spurstalk post about the DavidIcke forum post (he's got a thread where he claims censorship everytime he gets banned for posting his wall of linkspam) that he stopped posting on the DI forum because they were deleting his posts.  What he doesn't say is at the time he stopped posting he also claimed that the DI forum was influenced by the government/run by NASA/full of shills or whatever his current nutty excuse was.  Anything to avoid taking any personal responsibility.


Hang on! He claimed that because he was banned from the DavidIcke forums, that those forums are NASA shill infested and government backed?

Is this the same David Icke that is a conspiracy theorist and a holocaust denier?

 



Not banned.  Just that he stopped posting because of those reasons.  But yes, the same.

For those that missed it, Cosmored/DavidC was also on the Unexplained Mysteries forum this week posting as "drifty".  He was banned in less than 2 hours because he'd been banned there before and doesn't even try to hide his posting style.  The only reason the few posts he made didn't have his usual wall of link spam is they were too long so instead he just posted a single link to the spurstalk forum that had his wall of link spam instead. 
Yup, saw that. It was blatant, yet I was surprised the banning happened so fast. It never seems to occur to him that he gets banned from everywhere not because of his crackpot views, but because of his incessant link spamming and refusal to discuss anything.

His very best argument is "Look at this youtube" and nothing else.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on December 07, 2014, 05:08:36 PM
I had a spate of cosmored attacks on a YouTube comments thread, combined with UTUBENWO/Jay Blue and wengsky01, the idiocy levels used to give me headaches.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on December 07, 2014, 05:30:20 PM
Speaking of FatFreddy88/Cosmored, here's as fine an example of thread necromancy as you're likely to see:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125628&page=24



He says on his spurstalk post about the DavidIcke forum post (he's got a thread where he claims censorship everytime he gets banned for posting his wall of linkspam) that he stopped posting on the DI forum because they were deleting his posts.  What he doesn't say is at the time he stopped posting he also claimed that the DI forum was influenced by the government/run by NASA/full of shills or whatever his current nutty excuse was.  Anything to avoid taking any personal responsibility.


Hang on! He claimed that because he was banned from the DavidIcke forums, that those forums are NASA shill infested and government backed?

Is this the same David Icke that is a conspiracy theorist and a holocaust denier?

 



Not banned.  Just that he stopped posting because of those reasons.  But yes, the same.

For those that missed it, Cosmored/DavidC was also on the Unexplained Mysteries forum this week posting as "drifty".  He was banned in less than 2 hours because he'd been banned there before and doesn't even try to hide his posting style.  The only reason the few posts he made didn't have his usual wall of link spam is they were too long so instead he just posted a single link to the spurstalk forum that had his wall of link spam instead. 
Yup, saw that. It was blatant, yet I was surprised the banning happened so fast. It never seems to occur to him that he gets banned from everywhere not because of his crackpot views, but because of his incessant link spamming and refusal to discuss anything.

His very best argument is "Look at this youtube" and nothing else.
It never occurs to him but it should. He's been told exactly that multiple times.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on December 08, 2014, 12:56:30 PM
It never occurs to him but it should. He's been told exactly that multiple times.

And as a prime example of this:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144487&page=147&p=7714538&viewfull=1#post7714538

:D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on December 08, 2014, 01:11:12 PM
He is under a similar restriction at JREF/ISF.  He may still post, but his posts may not contain links.  And as is his common response, he complains that the only reason such a restriction could possibly arise is that the moderators don't want the information in the links published.  That leads him to conclude that the moderators at all these disparate forums uniformly favor his opposition.  He is literally incapable of considering that someone could oppose his behavior for reasons unrelated to his beliefs.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on December 08, 2014, 01:23:00 PM
He is under a similar restriction at JREF/ISF.  He may still post, but his posts may not contain links.  And as is his common response, he complains that the only reason such a restriction could possibly arise is that the moderators don't want the information in the links published.  That leads him to conclude that the moderators at all these disparate forums uniformly favor his opposition.  He is literally incapable of considering that someone could oppose his behavior for reasons unrelated to his beliefs.

In his world, for some reason, it seems that people can't have real opinions that differ from his own.  If they don't agree with him they must be paid to do so.

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on December 08, 2014, 02:01:45 PM
That is exactly the behavior he demonstrates.  His ban here resulted from a litmus test he tried to apply to the members.  If they didn't accept his conspiracy theories regarding 9/11 then they obviously weren't "honest" enough for him to bother talking to about Apollo.  At JREF he escalated that to assert that anyone who didn't disagree with me as he did was similarly "dishonest" and not worth his attention.

Compare this with Adrian, who has played a similar full-court press against me, Ed Hegenveld, Dwight, and Eric Jones as "evil" people, urging others -- presumptuously even NASA -- to publicly distance themselves from that list.

When a person acts as if he believes there can be no rational dispute over his claims, then he is lost.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on February 02, 2015, 11:35:18 AM
We have other old friends that sadly no longer visit, but are still active elsewhere on the interwebs.

On the Flat Earth society website, our old buddy Heiwa is still proving to everyone he meets that he knows absolutely nothing about anything:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62555.0#.VM-mn2isWSo

Quite a fun site, a healthy mix of believers, pretend believers, and 'don't be ridiculous' posters.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on February 02, 2015, 04:18:55 PM
We have other old friends that sadly no longer visit, but are still active elsewhere on the interwebs.

On the Flat Earth society website, our old buddy Heiwa is still proving to everyone he meets that he knows absolutely nothing about anything:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62555.0#.VM-mn2isWSo

Quite a fun site, a healthy mix of believers, pretend believers, and 'don't be ridiculous' posters.

I always thought that site was a poe.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on February 08, 2015, 01:20:52 PM
Skinny Splash is back at ISF trying to eulogize Patrick again and trying to re-open the issue of lunar module landing coordinates.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on February 08, 2015, 03:19:11 PM
He is quite infatuated with his dead brother.   
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on February 08, 2015, 04:50:53 PM
He is quite infatuated with his dead brother.

I'm just waiting for him to grow a guitar, a bicycle, and a wife from somewhere in Asia.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on February 08, 2015, 09:44:29 PM
IDW aka Romulus claims he was responsible for the badastronomy forum getting shut down and becoming cosmoquest.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2682209/pg28#48775675
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Allan F on February 08, 2015, 09:56:27 PM
IDW aka Romulus claims he was responsible for the badastronomy forum getting shut down and becoming cosmoquest.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2682209/pg28#48775675

... and he's against atheism too. Could it be the root of his anti-science attitude? I know other hoaxers has used religious arguments and religious based beliefs as reason for their denial.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on February 09, 2015, 12:25:31 AM
What a maroon.  As if his sixty-odd posts were anything more than an unpleasant evening.  Besides, nothing got "shut down" so much as converted to new ownership.  Why is a branding change that retains the content something that needs to be bragged about?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on February 09, 2015, 01:33:02 AM
IDW aka Romulus claims he was responsible for the badastronomy forum getting shut down and becoming cosmoquest.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2682209/pg28#48775675

Rarely have a seen someone with such a totally unfounded opinion of their own awesomeness,

Nice of him to quote the trajectory figures he claimed didn't exist :D

He claims not to be a rocket scientist (but does claim to be a theoretical astrophysicist!) but doesn't let that stop him discussing rocket science. I don't understand enough about trajectories and so forth to debate it, but I do know that claiming the LRV was stored inside the descent stage and that there is no record of its deployment shows a staggering lack of basic knowledge on a subject in which has invested so much effort in order to discredit it.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dalhousie on February 09, 2015, 01:40:24 AM
IDW aka Romulus claims he was responsible for the badastronomy forum getting shut down and becoming cosmoquest.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2682209/pg28#48775675

... and he's against atheism too. Could it be the root of his anti-science attitude? I know other hoaxers has used religious arguments and religious based beliefs as reason for their denial.

It's not as if atheists have been slow in coming up with conspiracy theories of their own!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on February 09, 2015, 01:43:03 AM
I don't know if Apollo denial is associated with either atheism or religiosity. One of the most obsessed deniers, Hunchbacked/Inquisitive Mind, is a very vocal atheist.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Bob B. on February 09, 2015, 02:03:34 AM
I see that IDW has now promoted me to Nazi.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luke Pemberton on February 09, 2015, 02:13:01 AM
I see that IDW has now promoted me to Nazi.

obersturmfuhrer?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: dwight on February 09, 2015, 02:24:58 AM
Der Typ hat wirklich nicht alle Tassen im Schrank.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on February 09, 2015, 04:59:26 AM
Der Typ hat wirklich nicht alle Tassen im Schrank.

That's absolutely true. In my region (Westphalia) we use a variation of this phrase: Er hat nicht alle Henkel an der Tasse. (He hasn't got all handles at the cups... translated word by word)  ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on February 09, 2015, 05:35:38 AM
Amusingly, Google Translate understands this idiom and translates it non-literally into the equivalent English idiom: "the guy really doesn't have all his marbles".

There are so many English idioms with this same basic meaning that I doubt even Google knows them all. Let's see:

EN: "His elevator doesn't go all the way to the top."

DE: "Sein Aufzug nicht gehen den ganzen Weg nach oben."

As I suspected, looks pretty literal to me.

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on February 09, 2015, 05:36:51 AM
Sitzpinkler </knowledge of German>
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on February 09, 2015, 05:49:20 AM
Sitzpinkler </knowledge of German>

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on February 09, 2015, 05:53:14 AM
Amusingly, Google Translate understands this idiom and translates it non-literally into the equivalent English idiom: "the guy really doesn't have all his marbles".

There are so many English idioms with this same basic meaning that I doubt even Google knows them all. Let's see:

EN: "His elevator doesn't go all the way to the top."

DE: "Sein Aufzug nicht gehen den ganzen Weg nach oben."

As I suspected, looks pretty literal to me.

Me and some friends are joking with these literal translations from English to German. When we're having a beer outside we use a mix of English and German (it's called Denglisch - Deutsch und Englisch). So we translate some special phrases into English. For example the German phrase "Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof" (in the meaning: I don't understand the subject) to "I only understand railway station". The facial expressions of the people around us: Priceless  ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on February 09, 2015, 06:43:43 AM
Well, you'd certainly have me confused.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dr.Acula on February 09, 2015, 06:54:11 AM
Well, you'd certainly have me confused.

So I've done my job well  ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on February 09, 2015, 12:46:24 PM
Amusingly, Google Translate understands this idiom and translates it non-literally into the equivalent English idiom: "the guy really doesn't have all his marbles".

There are so many English idioms with this same basic meaning that I doubt even Google knows them all. Let's see:

EN: "His elevator doesn't go all the way to the top."

DE: "Sein Aufzug nicht gehen den ganzen Weg nach oben."

As I suspected, looks pretty literal to me.

Me and some friends are joking with these literal translations from English to German. When we're having a beer outside we use a mix of English and German (it's called Denglisch - Deutsch und Englisch). So we translate some special phrases into English. For example the German phrase "Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof" (in the meaning: I don't understand the subject) to "I only understand railway station". The facial expressions of the people around us: Priceless  ;D

Hehehe.  I know just enough "tourist german" to get a good laugh out of that one.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on February 09, 2015, 12:57:21 PM
IDW aka Romulus claims he was responsible for the badastronomy forum getting shut down and becoming cosmoquest.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2682209/pg28#48775675


So it's his fault!  You know, if I thought anyone actually believed that, I might be able to get up a decent-sized lynch mob.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on February 09, 2015, 01:07:08 PM
Of course his story fails when you remember that the badastronomy forum merged with Universe Today to become BAUT THEN later became Cosmoquest.  He forgot the middle step. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on February 09, 2015, 02:03:11 PM
He forgot the middle step. 

That really describe his whole online presence. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on February 09, 2015, 02:29:38 PM
...and I'm banned from there again. Might be an IP sweep, might be IDW cowardly reporting anyone who replied to him to the mods. Just as well. I have better things to do with my time off.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luke Pemberton on February 09, 2015, 02:32:07 PM
...and I'm banned from there again. Might be an IP sweep, might be IDW cowardly reporting anyone who replied to him to the mods. Just as well. I have better things to do with my time off.

How could you possibly be banned? I can't imagine you pulling the wings off a fly, let alone upsetting CTs.  :o
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on February 09, 2015, 03:10:02 PM
GLP bans automatically for posting various websites on a secret list that only the mods know.  That is why I don't often post links there as you don't know if the site is on the list until it is too late.
They also do random bans to try to extort money for memberships.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luke Pemberton on February 09, 2015, 03:16:45 PM
GLP bans automatically for posting various websites on a secret list that only the mods know.  That is why I don't often post links there as you don't know if the site is on the list until it is too late.
They also do random bans to try to extort money for memberships.

This is the only forum of which I am a member. I did join BAUT when it was BAUT, but I rarely used it and have since forgotten my username and password. I won't be joining GLP in a hurry. Am I correct that Icke charges to be a member of his forum?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on February 09, 2015, 03:18:38 PM
GLP bans automatically for posting various websites on a secret list that only the mods know.  That is why I don't often post links there as you don't know if the site is on the list until it is too late.
They also do random bans to try to extort money for memberships.


This is the only forum of which I am a member. I did join BAUT when it was BAUT, but I rarely used it and have since forgotten my username and password. I won't be joining GLP in a hurry. Am I correct that Icke charges to be a member of his forum?
Ickes's forum is free but the mods can be draconian.  GLP is free to post anonymously or use a free account but paid accounts get more privileges including immunity from bans and the ability to ban individual posters from your own threads.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luke Pemberton on February 09, 2015, 03:22:44 PM
Ickes's forum is free but the mods can be draconian.

What, when you argue that lizard people aren't going to take over the world in 2017???

Quote
GLP is free to post anonymously or use a free account but paid accounts get more privileges including immunity from bans and the ability to ban individual posters from your own threads.

I'm happy posting here in that case. I've heard some of the other members here talk about other forums and either that they are lax or draconian. It's nice here.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on February 09, 2015, 03:32:24 PM
GLP is very lax and there is very little that you can get banned for.  Posting a website link that nobody knows which ones are bad is a big one.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on February 09, 2015, 07:24:57 PM
Amusingly, Google Translate understands this idiom and translates it non-literally into the equivalent English idiom: "the guy really doesn't have all his marbles".

There are so many English idioms with this same basic meaning that I doubt even Google knows them all. Let's see:

EN: "His elevator doesn't go all the way to the top."

DE: "Sein Aufzug nicht gehen den ganzen Weg nach oben."

As I suspected, looks pretty literal to me.

Me and some friends are joking with these literal translations from English to German. When we're having a beer outside we use a mix of English and German (it's called Denglisch - Deutsch und Englisch). So we translate some special phrases into English. For example the German phrase "Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof" (in the meaning: I don't understand the subject) to "I only understand railway station". The facial expressions of the people around us: Priceless  ;D

Hehehe.  I know just enough "tourist german" to get a good laugh out of that one.

"My hovercraft is full of eels."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on February 09, 2015, 07:28:54 PM
Amusingly, Google Translate understands this idiom and translates it non-literally into the equivalent English idiom: "the guy really doesn't have all his marbles".

There are so many English idioms with this same basic meaning that I doubt even Google knows them all. Let's see:

EN: "His elevator doesn't go all the way to the top."

DE: "Sein Aufzug nicht gehen den ganzen Weg nach oben."

As I suspected, looks pretty literal to me.

Me and some friends are joking with these literal translations from English to German. When we're having a beer outside we use a mix of English and German (it's called Denglisch - Deutsch und Englisch). So we translate some special phrases into English. For example the German phrase "Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof" (in the meaning: I don't understand the subject) to "I only understand railway station". The facial expressions of the people around us: Priceless  ;D

Hehehe.  I know just enough "tourist german" to get a good laugh out of that one.

"My hovercraft is full of eels."

Drop you panties Sir William, I cannot wait till lunchtime!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on February 09, 2015, 08:16:07 PM
Um, wasn't that Hungarian, not German?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on February 09, 2015, 09:39:40 PM
Is IDW drunk?
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2682209/pg31#48796449
(warning: language)
He was gone for a few hours after claiming the UV images from Apollo 16 didn't exist because he never heard of them then comes back with the above linked post.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on February 09, 2015, 09:40:12 PM
"A smell of petroleum prevails throughout."
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on February 09, 2015, 09:49:40 PM
Arguing with IDW/Romulus is like trying to play chess with a pigeon!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on February 09, 2015, 10:07:21 PM
Arguing with IDW/Romulus is like trying to play chess with a pigeon!

Nah.  The pigeon would actually have a chance.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on February 09, 2015, 10:39:50 PM
Arguing with IDW/Romulus is like trying to play chess with a pigeon!

Nah.  The pigeon would actually have a chance.

You're obviously not familiar with the expression. Its from a quote by Scott D. Weitzenhoffer

"Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory"

http://pigeonchess.com/playing-with-pigeons/

Romolus' style of "debate" (and I use the word cautiously) in the brief period he was here was the very definition of "pigeon chess". No matter how good any of us were, all he did was knock the pieces over, talk shite on the board and and then strutted around as though he won. I have absolutely no doubt he would have gone back to whatever gobshite board of nutjobs he usually haunts and told everyone how he "gave those NASA shills over at the Apollo board a good thrashing!"
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on February 10, 2015, 09:40:51 AM
He is quite infatuated with his dead brother.

I'm just waiting for him to grow a guitar, a bicycle, and a wife from somewhere in Asia.

It's quite intriguing. Either we have real evidence of survival of the human soul (and proof of its ability to post on message boards), or a brother taking up the mantle of Apollo conspiracy-mongering in his brother's name. Or, third option, we have a man who "cleverly" led people to think Dr. Socks was his brother, not himself, but can't remain off the grid to maintain the fiction after his brother passed away.

Would the third option be considered a "reverse sock" operation?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on February 10, 2015, 10:07:38 AM
Arguing with IDW/Romulus is like trying to play chess with a pigeon!

Nah.  The pigeon would actually have a chance.

You're obviously not familiar with the expression. Its from a quote by Scott D. Weitzenhoffer

"Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory"

http://pigeonchess.com/playing-with-pigeons/

Romolus' style of "debate" (and I use the word cautiously) in the brief period he was here was the very definition of "pigeon chess". No matter how good any of us were, all he did was knock the pieces over, talk shite on the board and and then strutted around as though he won. I have absolutely no doubt he would have gone back to whatever gobshite board of nutjobs he usually haunts and told everyone how he "gave those NASA shills over at the Apollo board a good thrashing!"

I'm familiar.  I just think comparing Romulus to a pigeon is insulting to the pigeon.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Drewid on February 10, 2015, 10:15:02 AM
He is quite infatuated with his dead brother.

I'm just waiting for him to grow a guitar, a bicycle, and a wife from somewhere in Asia.

It's quite intriguing. Either we have real evidence of survival of the human soul (and proof of its ability to post on message boards), or a brother taking up the mantle of Apollo conspiracy-mongering in his brother's name. Or, third option, we have a man who "cleverly" led people to think Dr. Socks was his brother, not himself, but can't remain off the grid to maintain the fiction after his brother passed away.

Would the third option be considered a "reverse sock" operation?

Or the 4th option, Fattydash 'stole' Dr Tekeli's identity but was then scuppered when the real guy died.
Given Patrick's enthusiasm for inventing identities and friends / spouses, and his lack of medical knowledge, it's not that unlikely. Mind you I would have expected him to re-emerge sooner if that were the case.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Echnaton on February 10, 2015, 10:25:13 AM
He is quite infatuated with his dead brother.

I'm just waiting for him to grow a guitar, a bicycle, and a wife from somewhere in Asia.

It's quite intriguing. Either we have real evidence of survival of the human soul (and proof of its ability to post on message boards), or a brother taking up the mantle of Apollo conspiracy-mongering in his brother's name. Or, third option, we have a man who "cleverly" led people to think Dr. Socks was his brother, not himself, but can't remain off the grid to maintain the fiction after his brother passed away.

Would the third option be considered a "reverse sock" operation?

"Reverse sock" is my preferred theory right now.  Dr. Patrick Spencer Tekeli lived in San Francisco and died in 2013.  Under this theory, Faddydash/P1K and other socks were Michael the whole time semi-impersonating Patrick.  The pair may just have considered the whole thing a big joke and after the death of Dr. T, Michael feels the need to repair the damage to Dr. T but still can't overcome his joker nature to admit to the truth in order to do it.


Enquiring minds want to know. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: twik on February 10, 2015, 03:29:42 PM
I suspect it might be a little like the plot of a thriller - you know, the serial killer is being hunted, but throws suspicion off on an innocent person. Now that the police are off his trail, he can settle down, and never be hunted again.

Except that he *likes* doing what made people hunt him in the first place.

Metaphors aside, if Dr. Socks were not Patrick Tekeli, whoever the person was who was claiming to be him had an obvious burning need to talk about his favorite conspiracy theories. He may have had to go underground for a while once his scapegoat was gone, but he couldn't abandon the fun permanently.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: BazBear on February 13, 2015, 02:50:29 AM
I see that good old Cosmo is still link spamming. He posted a link in the comments section at http://www.firstmenonthemoon.com/ that links to a thread he started five years ago at the Spurstalk forum. Well, to give him credit, for once it was only one.

(http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1035&pictureid=9491)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on February 19, 2015, 02:49:29 PM
Is IDW drunk?
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2682209/pg31#48796449
(warning: language)
He was gone for a few hours after claiming the UV images from Apollo 16 didn't exist because he never heard of them then comes back with the above linked post.

The guy is a cretin. I'm sorry, but there's no other word for it.

As for GLP? I can feel myself getting stupider every minute I read that thread. :(
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luke Pemberton on February 19, 2015, 03:07:19 PM
The guy is a cretin. I'm sorry, but there's no other word for it.

As for GLP? I can feel myself getting stupider every minute I read that thread. :(

He's tried to dismantle relativity with anti-semitism thrown in for good measure. It makes 'interesting' reading. Most rabid Einstein debunkers that I have crossed tend to show anti-semitism at some point.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on February 19, 2015, 04:08:47 PM
Is IDW drunk?
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2682209/pg31#48796449
(warning: language)
He was gone for a few hours after claiming the UV images from Apollo 16 didn't exist because he never heard of them then comes back with the above linked post.

The guy is a cretin. I'm sorry, but there's no other word for it.

As for GLP? I can feel myself getting stupider every minute I read that thread. :(

He's a moron.

If he wanted, he could actually buy a report studying the UV images right now:

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?kn=S+201+Catalog+of+Far-Ultraviolet+Objects&sts=t&x=55&y=7

published in 1978 - it's this one http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780010014.pdf

The stars in them are exactly where they should be too!

http://onebigmonkey.comoj.com/obm/ap16uv.html

The famous image of Earth taken in UV was published all over the place - how can anyone who claims to have studied the subject not know about them is beyond me.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: slaver0110 on February 19, 2015, 04:09:44 PM
Quote
Is IDW drunk?

I particularly like IDW's comment slightly earlier in that thread...

Quote
Claims and evidence are two different things. I can't seem to find any of these ultraviolet images anywhere. Can you?
I suspect the reason for that is they do not exist, but I am sure NASA can fabricate some up for you.

Translation:  If I can't find the images, they don't exist.  If I can find them, they're fake.

Brilliant piece of fallacy from GLP's hive of sludge-spewers.

Cheers!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luke Pemberton on February 19, 2015, 04:17:45 PM
The stars in them are exactly where they should be too!

http://onebigmonkey.comoj.com/obm/ap16uv.html

Have to compliment you and say that is another great piece of work. I really need to put something together about radiation some day.

Quote
The famous image of Earth taken in UV was published all over the place - how can anyone who claims to have studied the subject not know about them.

I know. It was one of the first areas I stumbled upon when I investigated the CT claims. It is very difficult not to find the UV star experiment, and to claim that stars were not observed from the lunar surface where they should be is (IMHO) deceitful.

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luke Pemberton on February 19, 2015, 04:25:10 PM
Translation:  If I can't find the images, they don't exist.  If I can find them, they're fake.

Exactly the same argument that Blunder and his friends used when directed towards the UV images many years ago, 'Oh, but NASA faked them afterwards.'

One thing they forget to mention is that the positions of the UV stars have been confirmed since Apollo as being in the correct position from where they were taken: the surface of the moon. More precisely, from where Apollo 16 was based -  The CTs goalposts are built on shifting sands.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on February 19, 2015, 04:46:50 PM
Not to mention that, if NASA can fake stars showing the right location, why didn't they fake them in the short exposure Hasselblad photos if they should be there as alleged?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on February 19, 2015, 04:48:53 PM
Not to mention that, if NASA can fake stars showing the right location, why didn't they fake them in the short exposure Hasselblad photos if they should be there as alleged?

I saw a slightly different version of this recently on GLP.  Supposedly the stars DID show up but they had to black them out because it would show the pics were really taken in the desert.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luke Pemberton on February 19, 2015, 04:51:26 PM
Not to mention that, if NASA can fake stars showing the right location, why didn't they fake them in the short exposure Hasselblad photos if they should be there as alleged?


Because the sky should be full of stars, millions of them, so it was better not to fake them as it would have been obvious to any astronomer if they had gotten it wrong. Isn't that Bill Kaysing's argument? Yet, they faked the UV stars. Hang on, wouldn't that also be obvious to any astronomer too???

No, I don't get their contradictions either. I'll  get my shill glasses and keep doing my work.  8)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luke Pemberton on February 19, 2015, 04:54:17 PM
I saw a slightly different version of this recently on GLP.  Supposedly the stars DID show up but they had to black them out because it would show the pics were really taken in the desert.

Didn't Jay go into the desert for the Zig-Zag productions and show this wasn't the case. Did Jay also use a Hasselblad with the same Ektachrome? What will it take them to believe, or do they just live next left in cloud Cuckoo land and a sharp right at Lala-ville?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: raven on February 19, 2015, 04:56:02 PM
 One might argue since Hard UV images of stars hadn't been taken like this before, they might get lucky for a couple years since this was new data, but it certainly would not be a long term thing, and  they did take visible light photos (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo15/html/as15-98-13325.html) of stars using longer exposures.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on February 19, 2015, 05:10:34 PM
Didn't Jay go into the desert for the Zig-Zag productions and show this wasn't the case. Did Jay also use a Hasselblad with the same Ektachrome?

Correct.  E-6 at ISO 160 did not show stars.  The longest exposure I used was f/5.6 1/60, for the studio light.  Coincidentally that night was the brightest Mars in years, but it took f/2.8 1/4, ISO 800 on the other camera I brought for it to show up.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on February 19, 2015, 09:54:31 PM
Not to mention that, if NASA can fake stars showing the right location, why didn't they fake them in the short exposure Hasselblad photos if they should be there as alleged?

I saw a slightly different version of this recently on GLP.  Supposedly the stars DID show up but they had to black them out because it would show the pics were really taken in the desert.

Which just shows how ignorant they are. The distances to the stars are measured in trillions of kilometres (42 trillion to the nearest one) The distance between the earth and the moon is less than 400,000 kilometres, therefore, the parallax is undetectable; the positions of the stars in the Lunar sky are the same as when viewed from the earth.

Importantly, if there were stars in the lunar sky in Apollo photos, then people like me, with many years of experience in photography, would find that highly suspicious!!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Allan F on February 19, 2015, 11:59:47 PM
Recently, I calculated how much the nearest star would shift in relation to a distant star. It came out several orders of magnitudes lower than the theoretical resolution of the film.

It simply would not be measurable with the equipment they used.

I even showed my calculations, but "they would have been able to measure it".
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on February 20, 2015, 03:55:22 AM
Correct.  E-6 at ISO 160 did not show stars.  The longest exposure I used was f/5.6 1/60, for the studio light.  Coincidentally that night was the brightest Mars in years, but it took f/2.8 1/4, ISO 800 on the other camera I brought for it to show up.


Oh, is that when Mars was as big as the full Moon?

[ducks]
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on February 20, 2015, 09:01:18 AM
One might argue since Hard UV images of stars hadn't been taken like this before, they might get lucky for a couple years since this was new data, but it certainly would not be a long term thing, and  they did take visible light photos (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo15/html/as15-98-13325.html) of stars using longer exposures.

They did indeed - and two of my favourite finds on the analysis I did are this one from Apollo 16:

(http://onebigmonkey.comoj.com/obm/wpimages/wpe1d87d70_05_06.jpg)

Which shows Venus, Mars and Saturn (the latter is a little washed out by the CSM window frame) exactly where they should be for the date and time they were taken, and also this one:

(http://onebigmonkey.comoj.com/obm/wpimages/wp01c90a4a_05_06.jpg)

Which shows 3 images taken in lunar orbit by Apollo 17 over 51 hours superimposed on a Stellarium projection from the same times :)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: AtomicDog on February 20, 2015, 12:10:41 PM
Not to mention that, if NASA can fake stars showing the right location, why didn't they fake them in the short exposure Hasselblad photos if they should be there as alleged?

I saw a slightly different version of this recently on GLP.  Supposedly the stars DID show up but they had to black them out because it would show the pics were really taken in the desert.

Which just shows how ignorant they are. The distances to the stars are measured in trillions of kilometres (42 trillion to the nearest one) The distance between the earth and the moon is less than 400,000 kilometres, therefore, the parallax is undetectable; the positions of the stars in the Lunar sky are the same as when viewed from the earth.

Importantly, if there were stars in the lunar sky in Apollo photos, then people like me, with many years of experience in photography, would find that highly suspicious!!

I remember that years ago, I calculated that at the very most, the parallax difference between the earth and the moon is equivalent to the earth moving four hours in its orbit. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) I don't think that you could measure four hours worth of stellar parallax with Hubble, much less a Hasselblad.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: nomuse on February 20, 2015, 01:16:01 PM
Worse, parallax of which stars?

Out of the top 20 or 30 brightest stars, only four manage to sneak in under 12 LY.  Or taking it the other way, out of the first 50 nearest stars, only a half-dozen are in the low single digits for apparent magnitude.

And I'd think if, say, Alpha Centauri was three pixels to the left but everything else is undetectably different, that would be an easy fix.

Of course, the hoaxies start in all of their "no stars" discussions with a mental image of a star drop from Star Wars or similar; brilliant jewels (even brightly-colored ones, in some earlier flicks) on black velvet. This spectacle is behind the reason why they can never accept that the astronauts wouldn't spend half their surface hours looking up like someone at a fireworks show, going "ooh, ahh."

But even then...in their hazy simulation of thinking, they probably are going "millions of stars, way too many for anyone to edit in a picture." Far from. There's about 5,000 stars of visual magnitude, total, and you are going to have less than half of those visible at any given moment.

And as far as all the stars we are usually familiar with, and the ability of technical people to place them accurately in the sky relative to each other and appropriate for the time and location....have they ever even HEARD of planetariums?  (Or planet-terrium, if you must). Which, until not all that long ago, had all of these precision placement done with hand tools.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on February 20, 2015, 02:15:29 PM
Using parallax to measure the distance to stars is incredibly difficult and wasn't even proven possible until 1853. The measurements are tiny, a fraction of an arcsecond. The nearest star to the Sun (and thus the star with the largest parallax), Proxima Centauri, has a parallax of 0.7687 ± 0.0003 arcsec. This angle is approximately that subtended by an object 2 centimeters in diameter located 5.3 kilometers away.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_parallax#19th_and_20th_centuries)  And thats using measurements from opposite sides of the Earth's orbit, a baseline of 186 million miles. The idea that parallax could be used to show that the Lunar photographs were taken on Earth is completely ludicrous as the baseline would only be some 245,000 miles.  I doubt that it would even be possible with a professional observatory taking the measurements from the Lunar surface, much less a hand-held film camera.

It just shows the ridiculousness of the HB claims, and just how little they know. And their cretinous inability to do even a modicum of research.  ::)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on February 20, 2015, 03:17:44 PM
One might argue since Hard UV images of stars hadn't been taken like this before, they might get lucky for a couple years since this was new data, but it certainly would not be a long term thing, and  they did take visible light photos (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo15/html/as15-98-13325.html) of stars using longer exposures.

They did indeed - and two of my favourite finds on the analysis I did are this one from Apollo 16:

(http://onebigmonkey.comoj.com/obm/wpimages/wpe1d87d70_05_06.jpg)

Which shows Venus, Mars and Saturn (the latter is a little washed out by the CSM window frame) exactly where they should be for the date and time they were taken, and also this one:

(http://onebigmonkey.comoj.com/obm/wpimages/wp01c90a4a_05_06.jpg)

Which shows 3 images taken in lunar orbit by Apollo 17 over 51 hours superimposed on a Stellarium projection from the same times :)


Mate, with the stuff you do lining up Apollo photographs with reality, you are a genuine asset to this community.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on February 20, 2015, 03:28:18 PM
Mate, with the stuff you do lining up Apollo photographs with reality, you are a genuine asset to this community.

Aww hush now - I just happen to be very good at pattern recognition.

I am at present locating all of the Apollo LEO mission photographs in Google Earth. I am particularly proud of locating these two today:

http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/SearchPhotos/photo.pl?mission=AS07&roll=7&frame=1804 (not quite where it is recorded as being, and also finding that 1805 and 6 are in Brazil, not South Africa!)

http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/SearchPhotos/photo.pl?mission=AS07&roll=5&frame=1620

:)

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on February 21, 2015, 03:33:04 AM
Using parallax to measure the distance to stars is incredibly difficult and wasn't even proven possible until 1853. The measurements are tiny, a fraction of an arcsecond.
Not only are the parallax angles very small, but you have to account for proper motion.

α Centauri, for example, has a parallax of 747.1 mas and a proper motion of -3678.19 mas/yr in RA and +481.84 mas/yr in declination. You'd have to take years of data to separate the effects. And it's not even the star (system) with the highest proper motion, though it's the closest.

This page

http://www.rssd.esa.int/index.php?project=HIPPARCOS&page=high_p

shows quite clearly the combined effects of parallax and proper motion on the star with the highest proper motion, Barnard's Star (which is not visible to the naked eye).

Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: mako88sb on March 08, 2015, 12:19:41 PM
I see hunchbacked is at it again. Released a video this week claiming the whole NASA space program is fake.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on March 08, 2015, 12:58:16 PM
I see hunchbacked is at it again. Released a video this week claiming the whole NASA space program is fake.

Well, that all makes sense. NASA must, naturally, have the mind control devices fitted to Elon Musk and his employees at Space X. Not to mention the Russians, the French, the Canadians, the Spanish, the Japanese, the Italians, the Germans, the Swedish, the Brazilians, the Dutch, the Malaysians, the South Africans and the South Koreans, all of which have had their citizens in the ISS.
 ::) ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gwiz on March 08, 2015, 01:59:26 PM
NASA must, naturally, have the mind control devices fitted to Elon Musk and his employees at Space X...
Not to mention the amateur astronomers that can get pictures like this:
http://www.astrophoto.fr/eclipse101221_lunar_transit.html
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luke Pemberton on March 08, 2015, 02:23:14 PM
Not to mention the amateur astronomers that can get pictures like this:
http://www.astrophoto.fr/eclipse101221_lunar_transit.html

Anyone can take a picture and photoshop a few oblongs to make the ISS shape.  ::)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: mako88sb on April 12, 2015, 03:00:15 PM
Wow! Now he's done a video about the Germanwings A320 crash that has the Americans to blame for some laser test that supposedly happened around the same time. Claims the black boxes were modified by them. From what I've read, they were taken directly to Paris. Were any Americans even involved with the aftermath of the crash?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on April 12, 2015, 03:31:47 PM
Wow! Now he's done a video about the Germanwings A320 crash that has the Americans to blame for some laser test that supposedly happened around the same time. Claims the black boxes were modified by them. From what I've read, they were taken directly to Paris. Were any Americans even involved with the aftermath of the crash?

Stuff like this really grips my s***. Its one thing talking trash about a space program that happened 40+ years ago, but what sort of sick mind sees conspiracy in something that is so recent, so horrific and so unequivocal in it's cause? Do these sick bas%&** not have ANY compassion or empathy for the suffering of their fellow mankind?

I apologise for the strength of this post, but this sort of stuff makes my blood boil. It was the same after Sandy Hook and the Boston bomb. Morons trawling through pictures of horrible suffering and crying "Fake". Despicable, horrid, idiotic people.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DD Brock on April 12, 2015, 04:01:56 PM
I get it now. Hunchbacked is nothing more than a racist. Just another one of those Blame America types who blames the US for all the ills in the world. I don't know why I never saw it before, but hunchie is displaying classic ethnocentrism, nothing more. It's actually kind of a letdown, really.

In my amateur opinion, of course...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on April 12, 2015, 04:08:25 PM
I get it now. Hunchbacked is nothing more than a racist. Just another one of those Blame America types who blames the US for all the ills in the world. I don't know why I never saw it before, but hunchie is displaying classic ethnocentrism, nothing more. It's actually kind of a letdown, really.

In my amateur opinion, of course...

I reckon that you've hit the nail on the head there.

Isn't he French? If so, he has a LOT to thank the US and the rest of the Allies for. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_landings)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Allan F on April 12, 2015, 07:49:31 PM
It's a reaction to the chaotic and unpredictable world we live in. It is comforting for them to know that there are "somebody" who drives it all, who determines what happens next. That there is a master plan, and it is not just random chance or common individuals who set these things in motion.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on April 12, 2015, 10:11:50 PM
Stuff like this really grips my s***. Its one thing talking trash about a space program that happened 40+ years ago, but what sort of sick mind sees conspiracy in something that is so recent, so horrific and so unequivocal in it's cause? Do these sick bas%&** not have ANY compassion or empathy for the suffering of their fellow mankind?
Agreed.

A lot of individuals, mostly volunteers, all around the world are now receiving the ADS-B transmissions from airliners on 1090 MHz (the same frequency long used for secondary surveillance radar). This included several stations in France during the Germanwings crash. They went back to their logged data and found that the ground had been interrogating the autopilot altitude setting on the A320. They even caught it in the process of being changed. One sample had it at the assigned altitude. A little over a second later, it was at 13-thousand-something feet. Another second or so later, it was at 96 ft (the closest to 100' that can be represented in the digital format). They forwarded this data to the BEA (the French NTSB) and publicly to the world on a web forum.

This was a smoking gun, and I was no longer willing to give the copilot the benefit of the doubt. Only a paranoid lunatic would claim it's all some sort of enormous government conspiracy.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on April 13, 2015, 01:01:38 AM
Look, someone this week literally tried to convince me that someone I've known for more than twenty years doesn't actually exist, because if they admitted that he exists, and they admitted that his son really did get measles, it destroys their stupid anti-vaccine claims.  No sympathy at all, just conspiracism.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on April 13, 2015, 02:24:26 AM
Look, someone this week literally tried to convince me that someone I've known for more than twenty years doesn't actually exist, because if they admitted that he exists, and they admitted that his son really did get measles, it destroys their stupid anti-vaccine claims.  No sympathy at all, just conspiracism.

Hopefully she/he won't inflict the type of cruelty on their kids that this anti-vaxxer idiot did.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/anti-vaxx-mom-abandons-movement-after-all-seven-her-of-her-kids-get-whooping-cough/
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on April 13, 2015, 12:20:48 PM
Stuff like this really grips my s***. Its one thing talking trash about a space program that happened 40+ years ago, but what sort of sick mind sees conspiracy in something that is so recent, so horrific and so unequivocal in it's cause? Do these sick bas%&** not have ANY compassion or empathy for the suffering of their fellow mankind?

I apologise for the strength of this post, but this sort of stuff makes my blood boil. It was the same after Sandy Hook and the Boston bomb. Morons trawling through pictures of horrible suffering and crying "Fake". Despicable, horrid, idiotic people.

I don't think you should soften your comment.  The "Vic Sim" mentality seems to be the latest evolution of conspiracism, and it is truly despicable.  Now granted from a rhetoric point of view, it's hard to dispute those claims dispassionately.  And that plays right into conspiracy theorists' hands.  They formulate an argument that is practically guaranteed to bait an emotional response, which gives them the rhetorical upper hand:  "Look, we're scientifically analyzing these photos and the only criticism our opponents can mount is boo-hooing over made-up victims."

But in the larger analysis, conspiracism is about attracting attention to individual conspiracy theorists and ego-reinforcement.  The theories are proposed not to investigate the facts, but to say, "Everyone look at how clever I am!  I figured out something you all didn't."  It's a pastime; it's recreation.  When that happens at the expense of actual victims, it truly signals something wrong with the social conscience of these proponents.  They demonstrate little if any empathy.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on April 13, 2015, 12:22:09 PM
They formulate an argument that is practically guaranteed to bait an emotional response, which gives them the rhetorical upper hand:  "Look, we're scientifically analyzing these photos and the only criticism our opponents can mount is boo-hooing over made-up victims."

As well as "A-ha - we made them angry, we must be on to something"
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on April 13, 2015, 12:40:04 PM
You can also make someone angry by walking up to them and kicking them on the shins. That doesn't make your point any more valid and any rational human being must realise that going around kicking people will lead to isolation and punishment.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on April 13, 2015, 01:02:10 PM
Provoking an emotional response by any means is one of of the many ways the rhetoric of conspiracy debates plays out.  Many of us here have been around the block enough times to recognize them early.  But the general public, I fear, does not.  Hence the debates over conspiracy theories too often achieve nothing but rhetorical showboating.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Count Zero on April 15, 2015, 03:02:05 AM
Hence the debates over conspiracy theories too often achieve nothing but rhetorical showboating.

One of the more egregious manifestations goes something like this:

HB:  "Those shadows are impossible, therefore it was faked."
PAN:  "Nonsense!  Here's a photo showing the same  shadow pattern here on Earth."
HB:  Ha-Ha!  You just proved that the photos could have been faked on Earth!!1!

Reason, facts and truth mean nothing - only scoring rhetorical points.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on May 08, 2015, 09:49:28 AM
It's pretty much that same old tired tactic: spin a wildly speculative fantasy with not a shred of evidence, then challenge (whomever) to disprove it.

Also, hunchy's English seems to have deteriorated... guess he's out of practice.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Daggerstab on May 09, 2015, 03:25:08 AM
I came across this today: someone's been trying to defend Jarrah White on the talk page (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Jarrah_White) of the article about him on Rational Wiki, making vague threats mentions of a libel suit. How likely is it that it's JW himself?

The article itself (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jarrah_White) is brief and shallow. It doesn't even cover White's more notable blunders (polar orbits, etc.).
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on May 09, 2015, 08:01:02 AM
It's another fine example of nitpicking on the alleged JW's part. He shouts long and loud about the tiny details but neglects the overall thing. As someone points out, arguing long and hard that no-one individual could have continuously tracked Apollo to the moon conveniently neglects the argument that the Apollo craft were monitored in the vicinity of the moon, in which case: how exactly did they get there?

Likewise complaining that someone cited the incorrect Van Allen document, and he was actually focusing on a pre-Apollo Scientific American article conveniently brushes over Van Allen's own later rebuttal of the "it was instantly lethal" claim as well as JW's own incompetent maths on the subject.

Generally speaking I also get annoyed about people removing "libelous" comments on the basis of an accusation of libel.

It is not libel unless it is proven to be so. Simply waving your arms about and claiming libel does not make it so. There are many cases in the world where people have claimed they have been libeled, gone to court to try and prove their claim and it turns out that it was no such thing.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Noldi400 on May 09, 2015, 10:00:59 AM
AFAIK, the old legal principle still stands that the truth is an absolute defense against libel.  ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DD Brock on May 09, 2015, 11:59:27 AM
That is a lot of bandwidth just to deal with the nonsense that is Jarrah White.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on May 09, 2015, 12:03:59 PM
The basis of the law for this tort (at least in Common Law) is the moral principle that no person is entitled to false reputation.  Libel claimants often forget the other edge to that sword, which slashes along the line that no person is entitled to a falsely positive reputation.  A person who insinuates publicly to be skilled at a certain thing and is shown by the facts not to be, is not entitled to invoke the law to protect his opinion of himself against fair comment.  This sword is especially sharp when one seeks to be a public figure, as has Jarrah.  The way Common Law works, a person who seeks to be a public figure, especially on the backs of other people he has viciously attacked, is expected to have a very thick skin indeed when public opinion of him is rendered.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DD Brock on May 09, 2015, 02:24:18 PM
The number of false DCMA claims Jarrah has filed against just Astrobrant alone is a clear indication of exactly how thin his skin is.

For his well being, I honestly hope he never attains the fame he so clearly covets. He is emotionally ill-equipped for the scrutiny that comes with such fame.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on May 09, 2015, 09:26:35 PM
For his well being, I honestly hope he never attains the fame he so clearly covets.
Indeed. Nothing, but nothing seems to set him off more than seeing the fame he thinks is rightly his going to a debunker such as Phil Plait or Adam Savage.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on May 10, 2015, 02:27:17 AM
The basis of the law for this tort (at least in Common Law) is the moral principle that no person is entitled to false reputation.  Libel claimants often forget the other edge to that sword, which slashes along the line that no person is entitled to a falsely positive reputation.  A person who insinuates publicly to be skilled at a certain thing and is shown by the facts not to be, is not entitled to invoke the law to protect his opinion of himself against fair comment.  This sword is especially sharp when one seeks to be a public figure, as has Jarrah.  The way Common Law works, a person who seeks to be a public figure, especially on the backs of other people he has viciously attacked, is expected to have a very thick skin indeed when public opinion of him is rendered.

Indeed. It's also a very expensive sword, particularly if you find yourself in the end of it. It is offensive that true statements are withdrawn not because they are shown to be false, but because people can not afford to defend them.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luther on May 30, 2015, 03:37:22 AM
I reckon that you've hit the nail on the head there.

Isn't he French? If so, he has a LOT to thank the US and the rest of the Allies for. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_landings)

France was under the boot for eighteen months before the US even entered the war, so we might wonder how altruistic the actions of the latter were.  But, I think what this person says should be based on its own merit, not on his nationality and what the US may have done nearly three fourths of a century ago.  (Just to emphasise how long ago this is, the time that has passed since the Normandy invasion is longer than the entire existence of the Soviet Union.)  How long does this obligation last?  I've noticed that Americans never seem to show proper deference towards France for helping the US secure independence (suffering more casualties than the Americans) at Yorktown 234 years ago.  Maybe that's because France was about as altruistic in 1781 as the US was in 1944.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DD Brock on May 30, 2015, 11:25:22 AM
I reckon that you've hit the nail on the head there.

Isn't he French? If so, he has a LOT to thank the US and the rest of the Allies for. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_landings)

France was under the boot for eighteen months before the US even entered the war, so we might wonder how altruistic the actions of the latter were.  But, I think what this person says should be based on its own merit, not on his nationality and what the US may have done nearly three fourths of a century ago.  (Just to emphasise how long ago this is, the time that has passed since the Normandy invasion is longer than the entire existence of the Soviet Union.)  How long does this obligation last?  I've noticed that Americans never seem to show proper deference towards France for helping the US secure independence (suffering more casualties than the Americans) at Yorktown 234 years ago.  Maybe that's because France was about as altruistic in 1781 as the US was in 1944.

I'd say that obligation lasts at least until the very last Alled soldier passes on. Sounds fair to me...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Luther on May 30, 2015, 05:20:52 PM
I'd say that obligation lasts at least until the very last Alled soldier passes on. Sounds fair to me...

The idea that the soldiers (including quite a few of my relatives) who fought and died in that war did so so that generations of people from the occupied countries not even yet born would owe fawning obsequience to the allied countries sounds beneath contempt to me, and I do not appreciate your dishonouring their memory.

If anyone here is from one of the occupied countries, please note that an embarrassment like DD Brock does not speak for all of us from the allied countries.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DD Brock on May 30, 2015, 07:57:09 PM
I'd say that obligation lasts at least until the very last Alled soldier passes on. Sounds fair to me...

The idea that the soldiers (including quite a few of my relatives) who fought and died in that war did so so that generations of people from the occupied countries not even yet born would owe fawning obsequience to the allied countries sounds beneath contempt to me, and I do not appreciate your dishonouring their memory.

If anyone here is from one of the occupied countries, please note that an embarrassment like DD Brock does not speak for all of us from the allied countries.

You asked the smart ass  (and coincidentally off-topic) question, are you really that shocked at a smart ass answer? Seriously?  Sensitive one, aren't you?

You can hop off your high horse now... You ain't the only one who had relatives in that war, Bub...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on May 30, 2015, 09:05:17 PM
Yeah--my grandfather served.  As an officer at the Santa Anita racetrack interment camp.  Our hands are not exactly clean in that war; what do we owe because of it?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on May 31, 2015, 02:23:25 AM
I'd say we owe not letting anything like that ever happen again.

Fat chance, though. It did. More than once.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: DD Brock on May 31, 2015, 10:20:40 AM
I'd say we owe not letting anything like that ever happen again.

Fat chance, though. It did. More than once.

That's the sad truth of it right there.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: smartcooky on June 01, 2015, 04:17:43 PM
France was under the boot for eighteen months before the US even entered the war, so we might wonder how altruistic the actions of the latter were.

You need to be careful who you blame for that.

FDR wanted the USA to pitch in because he recognised that the Nazis were a threat to the whole world not just Europe. Unfortunately he had to deal with his very own Nazi sympathisers at home. There was a core group of very of prominent and very wealthy American businessmen who had a lot to gain from helping and supporting the right wing regimes in Europe for the twenty or so years prior to WW2. They supported Franco during the Spanish Civil War of 1936 with materiel. They also supported Mussolini, and Hitler.

Among the more well known individual supporters of the Nazis were Andrew Mellon (Secretary of the US Treasury), William Randolph Hearst, Joseph Kennedy (JFK's father), John Rockefeller, Allen Dulles (later head of the CIA), Charles Lindbergh and Prescott Bush (George Bush's father; Dubya's grandfather). Additionally, there were also major companies who wanted to keep supplying and supporting the Nazis because of the huge money they could make. Companies such as General Motors, Ford, Winthrop Chemical, Exxon (then called Standard Oil), ITT, Alcoa, Dow Chemical, General Electric, National City Bank and DuPont were all keen to continue making profits from Hitler's regime.

Suggesting that "America was late joining the war" might be true, but it doesn't paint a true and accurate picture of what its President and the majority of its people thought. The facts are that in the two years prior to Pearl Harbour, many thousands of Americans went to Europe to join the fight against Nazism by joining the RAF, the Royal Navy and the British Army. Those who wanted America to stay out of it were a small but noisy and influential minority.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: gillianren on June 02, 2015, 12:22:12 AM
Don't forget Henry Ford, the only American mentioned in a positive way in Mein Kampf, not to mention someone who earnestly believed The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was legit.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Philthy on June 25, 2015, 01:11:52 AM
I'm not really sure if anyone REALLY wants to know, but Heiwa is now holding court here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?board=20.0

I know, I know, it's Woo Central.

Any way........he's got another winner of his "Challenge" that he refuses to pay
That's here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62555.0#.VYuNXNHbJhE

There are other loonies there also.

Phil
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on June 25, 2015, 12:19:13 PM
I'm not really sure if anyone REALLY wants to know, but Heiwa is now holding court here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?board=20.0

I know, I know, it's Woo Central.

Any way........he's got another winner of his "Challenge" that he refuses to pay
That's here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62555.0#.VYuNXNHbJhE

There are other loonies there also.

Phil
I just read the first couple and the last couple pages of the challenge thread.  As expected he is still moving goalposts.  He has never proven he has any money.  When asked repeatedly a direct question "Do you agree that reentry generates a finite amount of heat" he can't answer it.  The closest he comes is a lie of "reentry always results in complete destruction of the spacecraft" and then disappears for a while.  He DID admit that nobody will ever win his challenge because of his lie above though.

and apparently I'm already registered there.  At first glance it actually appears to not be completely full of loonies.  there are a fair amount of knowledgable people that know the Earth is round despite the forum name, unlike the Clues forum where it is completely filled with posters with their heads in the sand.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: grmcdorman on June 25, 2015, 12:38:28 PM
Over 2,000 posts in that thread, and Heiwa being Heiwa (apparently he still thinks the capsule has to 'stop' to re-enter, and all meteors burn up (there is no such thing as a meteorite).
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on June 25, 2015, 12:55:31 PM
Over 2,000 posts in that thread, and Heiwa being Heiwa (apparently he still thinks the capsule has to 'stop' to re-enter, and all meteors burn up (there is no such thing as a meteorite).
How does he explain 'stopping' for re-entry? How does he explain meteorites? Is the atmosphere supposed to be an invincible shield? Tell that to the dinosaurs.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: frenat on June 25, 2015, 01:02:11 PM
Heiwa explain anything?  Have you met him?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: grmcdorman on June 25, 2015, 01:14:49 PM
He 'explains' stopping for re-entry by defining re-entry as impossible. As for meteorites, he's never found one in his garden, so apparently they don't exist (according to a comment in that thread). I guess that means most rocks and minerals don't exist, as I haven't found them in my garden.

So yes, to him the atmosphere is an impenetrable shield.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: philwebb59 on January 20, 2016, 05:16:08 AM
Didn't Jay go into the desert for the Zig-Zag productions and show this wasn't the case. Did Jay also use a Hasselblad with the same Ektachrome?

Correct.  E-6 at ISO 160 did not show stars.  The longest exposure I used was f/5.6 1/60, for the studio light.  Coincidentally that night was the brightest Mars in years, but it took f/2.8 1/4, ISO 800 on the other camera I brought for it to show up.
Was the Ektachrome SO-160 film used on the lunar surface the same as today's Ektachrome 160T? T for Tungsten, I'm guessing.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 20, 2016, 11:33:45 AM
Was the Ektachrome SO-160 film used on the lunar surface the same as today's Ektachrome 160T? T for Tungsten, I'm guessing.

I don't think so.  The Apollo film was the E-3 process, and I believe today's Ektachrome is E-6.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 20, 2016, 11:43:40 AM
Was the Ektachrome SO-160 film used on the lunar surface the same as today's Ektachrome 160T? T for Tungsten, I'm guessing.

I don't think so.  The Apollo film was the E-3 process, and I believe today's Ektachrome is E-6.
SLIGHT HIJACK
Jay:
Did you ever find the original scans for A11?   If so, what is/was the format or the original digital images?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 20, 2016, 12:20:11 PM
I haven't found them yet.  I recall they were TIFF files.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 20, 2016, 12:55:55 PM
I haven't found them yet.  I recall they were TIFF files.
That makes sense then.  I along with BertieSlack have been attempting to tell expattafy1 that the Photoshop metadata file information does indicate that the file has been PhotoShopped.  Just that software converted the file to the jpg format.  A new idea to me, but not to the current Hoaxers, like hunchbacked, have posted nonsense on the YT channels. The only information file I could find was:

https://pseudoastro.wordpress.com/tag/photoshop/
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on January 20, 2016, 01:21:05 PM
Another subject that we can add to the long list of things that hoaxes know nothing about.....
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 20, 2016, 01:31:41 PM
Another subject that we can add to the long list of things that hoaxes know nothing about.....
Discussing ANYTHING with expattaffy1 is a journey into obscene unreality.  Never have I have the  incidence of a rude nasty individual.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on January 20, 2016, 02:30:18 PM
I haven't found them yet.  I recall they were TIFF files.
Kip Thorne mailed me about that. TIFF with colour balance adjusted as I recall. I will dig out the mail.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on January 20, 2016, 02:58:28 PM
Discussing ANYTHING with expattaffy1 is a journey into obscene unreality.  Never have I have the  incidence of a rude nasty individual.

He is a particularly loony examples of a pretty loony set of people. Didn't he admit to having a stroke a couple of years back? It's very possible that his cognitive abilities have been impaired (certainly his eyesight seems to be a bit <ahem> strange). If so, then perhaps his family should restrict his Internet access as he certainly makes himself look like a fool.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 20, 2016, 03:06:36 PM
Discussing ANYTHING with expattaffy1 is a journey into obscene unreality.  Never have I have the  incidence of a rude nasty individual.

He is a particularly loony examples of a pretty loony set of people. Didn't he admit to having a stroke a couple of years back? It's very possible that his cognitive abilities have been impaired (certainly his eyesight seems to be a bit <ahem> strange). If so, then perhaps his family should restrict his Internet access as he certainly makes himself look like a fool.
Um, more or less ancient news to me before early in 2015, however, yes his eyesight is poor to non existent. Joan Evans posted a video that was concerned with Al Sheppard having only one leg as taffy had indicated on one of his videos.  She painfully showed him that the MET was blocking an image of his right leg.  I tried to continue and expand a refutation of his believe.  Then he started the BS about his foot had been Photoshopped onto the image. and ensuing the metadata file information.
To a casual, lazy individual that stumbles into the video may believe that information "proves" editing, instead of checking on the proposition.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on January 20, 2016, 03:11:22 PM

Um, more or less ancient news to me before early in 2015, however, yes his eyesight is poor to non existent. Joan Evans posted a video that was concerned with Al Sheppard having only one leg as taffy had indicated on one of his videos.  She painfully showed him that the MET was blocking an image of his right leg.  I tried to continue and expand a refutation of his believe.  Then he started the BS about his foot had been Photoshopped onto the image. and ensuing the metadata file information.
To a casual, lazy individual that stumbles into the video may believe that information "proves" editing, instead of checking on the proposition.

More than 2 minutes listening to him waffle on about hinges or erections should pretty much convince the vast majority of sane people that expattaffy is quite a few slices short of a full loaf. The guy is a card-carrying, fully paid-up member of the lunatic fringe.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 20, 2016, 03:14:22 PM

Um, more or less ancient news to me before early in 2015, however, yes his eyesight is poor to non existent. Joan Evans posted a video that was concerned with Al Sheppard having only one leg as taffy had indicated on one of his videos.  She painfully showed him that the MET was blocking an image of his right leg.  I tried to continue and expand a refutation of his believe.  Then he started the BS about his foot had been Photoshopped onto the image. and ensuing the metadata file information.
To a casual, lazy individual that stumbles into the video may believe that information "proves" editing, instead of checking on the proposition.

More than 2 minutes listening to him waffle on about hinges or erections should pretty much convince the vast majority of sane people that expattaffy is quite a few slices short of a full loaf. The guy is a card-carrying, fully paid-up member of the lunatic fringe.
Heading for the kitchen, to clean off the coffee spew!
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Ishkabibble on January 20, 2016, 08:56:29 PM
Discussing ANYTHING with expattaffy1 is a journey into obscene unreality.  Never have I have the  incidence of a rude nasty individual.

He is a particularly loony examples of a pretty loony set of people. Didn't he admit to having a stroke a couple of years back? It's very possible that his cognitive abilities have been impaired (certainly his eyesight seems to be a bit <ahem> strange). If so, then perhaps his family should restrict his Internet access as he certainly makes himself look like a fool.

Five or six years ago, I had the misfortune of getting sucked into a discussion thread on another space forum and there was some guy going on and on and on about "William Rutledge" and that cursed Apollo 20 mission. This guy was the most vile person I have ever had the displeasure of being in contact with. Every other post was filled with assertions of homosexual behavior between other posters, bestiality intimations, incest accusations, and the vast quantities of illegal narcotics everyone else (besides him) must have been consuming, among other vile things. Several of us sent PMs with plaintive pleas to the board owner to intervene, and it was nine or ten days before Mr. Disgusting got the boot, all because the board owner had suffered a broken arm and was unable to come on the board.

Worst experience of my life. And another reason I desperately despise hoax nuts.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: JayUtah on January 21, 2016, 09:46:22 AM
This guy was the most vile person I have ever had the displeasure of being in contact with.

This was Jarrah's experience at Yahoo back in (I want to say) 2004.  He was considerably intemperate, foul-mouthed, and rude.  He rebuffed other participants' requests for restraint, citing what he asserted to be his prerogative to employ whatever means were required to destroy the evil that was me and my colleagues.  Obviously that episode didn't end well, but it did give me a laugh when he accused me of hacking his computer.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 21, 2016, 09:49:41 AM
This guy was the most vile person I have ever had the displeasure of being in contact with.

This was Jarrah's experience at Yahoo back in (I want to say) 2004.  He was considerably intemperate, foul-mouthed, and rude.  He rebuffed other participants' requests for restraint, citing what he asserted to be his prerogative to employ whatever means were required to destroy the evil that was me and my colleagues.  Obviously that episode didn't end well, but it did give me a laugh when he accused me of hacking his computer.
LOL, you are the great evil person on the payroll for defending the truth???
Shame on you. ::)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Ishkabibble on January 21, 2016, 11:58:40 AM
LOL, you are the great evil person on the payroll for defending the truth???
Shame on you. ::)

Wait, what?   There's a payroll?
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 21, 2016, 12:01:41 PM
LOL, you are the great evil person on the payroll for defending the truth???
Shame on you. ::)

Wait, what?   There's a payroll?
ONLY if you are a hoaxer! :)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on January 21, 2016, 12:57:52 PM
More than 2 minutes listening to him waffle on about hinges or erections should pretty much convince the vast majority of sane people that expattaffy is quite a few slices short of a full loaf. The guy is a card-carrying, fully paid-up member of the lunatic fringe.

The other funny thing about taffy, he started foul-mouthing me, he has done it with astrobrant2 and bertieslack. He then blocks us on youtube, then makes the claim we have been silenced. :D :D Total fruit loop..
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 21, 2016, 01:01:29 PM
More than 2 minutes listening to him waffle on about hinges or erections should pretty much convince the vast majority of sane people that expattaffy is quite a few slices short of a full loaf. The guy is a card-carrying, fully paid-up member of the lunatic fringe.

The other funny thing about taffy, he started foul-mouthing me, he has done it with astrobrant2 and bertieslack. He then blocks us on youtube, then makes the claim we have been silenced. :D :D Total fruit loop..
Currently he is ignoring me, but I don't post ON HIS VIDEOS, so I'm not blocked.  However, I agree with your analysis.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on January 21, 2016, 01:12:56 PM
Did you know taffy was an author.. read a review on Amazon. :) :)
http://www.amazon.com/review/R1SMR57SXASNSM/ref=cm_cr_dp_cmt ie=UTF8&ASIN=B006OW2GBO&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=283155&store=books#wasThisHelpful
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 21, 2016, 01:19:59 PM
 William Swithin??
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Allan F on January 21, 2016, 01:39:53 PM
Yep. Totally bonkers.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on January 21, 2016, 01:49:28 PM
William Swithin??

That's him.. :)
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 21, 2016, 01:56:13 PM
William Swithin??

That's him.. :)
I asked him once if he got his engineering degree out of a cereal box? :)  Evoked a large amount of swearing and disbelief that I WOULD question his credentials.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Zakalwe on January 21, 2016, 03:11:36 PM
Wow. I downloaded a sample of that book onto my Kindle app. Man...there's some whacked out ideas in that. Plus, a shed load of attitude. Truly, this guy is a weapons - grade fruitcake of the highest order.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 21, 2016, 03:13:46 PM
Wow. I downloaded a sample of that book onto my Kindle app. Man...there's some whacked out ideas in that. Plus, a shed load of attitude. Tuly, this guy is a weapons - grade fruitcake of the highest order.
WMD? :)

Erm
WMS! ;D
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ChrLz on January 23, 2016, 05:21:38 PM
Didn't Jay go into the desert for the Zig-Zag productions and show this wasn't the case. Did Jay also use a Hasselblad with the same Ektachrome?

Correct.  E-6 at ISO 160 did not show stars.  The longest exposure I used was f/5.6 1/60, for the studio light.  Coincidentally that night was the brightest Mars in years, but it took f/2.8 1/4, ISO 800 on the other camera I brought for it to show up.
Was the Ektachrome SO-160 film used on the lunar surface the same as today's Ektachrome 160T? T for Tungsten, I'm guessing.
What Jay said.  The formulation of the film itself has been improved over the years, and the processing has changed as well.  I'm not up with the technical details of what the changes were, but the look of the film (contrast/colour balance/dynamic range) and the grain size and structure certainly changed.  Not a huge amount, but enough for an amateur (who also shot weddings commercially!) to notice.  And it was daylight film, not the T (yes, tungsten/incandescent) variety, of course.

I don't think there is a 'today's' ektachrome though - it's discontinued (2012-ish I think?).  If anything marked the symbolic death of film, that was it (although I'd argue it was when my beloved Kodachrome died..).
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: HeadLikeARock on January 23, 2016, 08:55:14 PM
More than 2 minutes listening to him waffle on about hinges or erections should pretty much convince the vast majority of sane people that expattaffy is quite a few slices short of a full loaf. The guy is a card-carrying, fully paid-up member of the lunatic fringe.

The other funny thing about taffy, he started foul-mouthing me, he has done it with astrobrant2 and bertieslack. He then blocks us on youtube, then makes the claim we have been silenced. :D :D Total fruit loop..
Currently he is ignoring me, but I don't post ON HIS VIDEOS, so I'm not blocked.  However, I agree with your analysis.

Just seen a couple of his videos. I think it's more likely he's trying to ridicule the hoaxers, the claims are so ridiculous even the likes of Percy, White, White, Sibrel, Rene wouldn't come up with this guff. Would they?   :o
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 23, 2016, 09:07:08 PM
I get a totally different impression from taffy, both in his videos and in conversations with him.
an example of one of his posts.
Quote
HEY PRICK. ONE OF MY BEST DISCOVERIES AGAIN.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/AS11-36-5327HR.jpg
Now before I disclosed this fake the description by NASA was
A PHOTO OF THE COMMAND MODULE TAKEN BY NEIL ARMSTRONG FROM THE WINDOW OF THE LEM AS THEY ORBITED TO MOON
HA HA HA that has now been deleted idiot. Zoom up the photo and also brighten it up, what have we got?
1/ a square photo of the command module pasted on with Photoshop. and
2/ a rectangular photo in the bottom left which nasa claims was the edged of the window, again pasted in with Photoshop
OH AND NOTICE THE WHISTLE BLOWERS CLUE INSERTED BOTTOM RIGHT WHICH IS NOT VISIBLE IN THE ORIGINAL PHOTO HA HA HA what a gullible fucking idiot
Sooner or later you are going to have to accept one thing
EXPATTAFFY IS NOW THE KING
HA HA HA
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Dalhousie on January 23, 2016, 09:21:56 PM
I get a totally different impression from taffy, both in his videos and in conversations with him.
an example of one of his posts.
Quote
HEY PRICK. ONE OF MY BEST DISCOVERIES AGAIN.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/AS11-36-5327HR.jpg
Now before I disclosed this fake the description by NASA was
A PHOTO OF THE COMMAND MODULE TAKEN BY NEIL ARMSTRONG FROM THE WINDOW OF THE LEM AS THEY ORBITED TO MOON
HA HA HA that has now been deleted idiot. Zoom up the photo and also brighten it up, what have we got?
1/ a square photo of the command module pasted on with Photoshop. and
2/ a rectangular photo in the bottom left which nasa claims was the edged of the window, again pasted in with Photoshop
OH AND NOTICE THE WHISTLE BLOWERS CLUE INSERTED BOTTOM RIGHT WHICH IS NOT VISIBLE IN THE ORIGINAL PHOTO HA HA HA what a gullible fucking idiot
Sooner or later you are going to have to accept one thing
EXPATTAFFY IS NOW THE KING
HA HA HA

Weird.  1) It's not been deleted and 2) when I increase brightness I don't see what he sees.  So completely disconnected from reality.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 23, 2016, 09:31:57 PM
I get a totally different impression from taffy, both in his videos and in conversations with him.
an example of one of his posts.
Quote
HEY PRICK. ONE OF MY BEST DISCOVERIES AGAIN.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/AS11-36-5327HR.jpg
Now before I disclosed this fake the description by NASA was
A PHOTO OF THE COMMAND MODULE TAKEN BY NEIL ARMSTRONG FROM THE WINDOW OF THE LEM AS THEY ORBITED TO MOON
HA HA HA that has now been deleted idiot. Zoom up the photo and also brighten it up, what have we got?
1/ a square photo of the command module pasted on with Photoshop. and
2/ a rectangular photo in the bottom left which nasa claims was the edged of the window, again pasted in with Photoshop
OH AND NOTICE THE WHISTLE BLOWERS CLUE INSERTED BOTTOM RIGHT WHICH IS NOT VISIBLE IN THE ORIGINAL PHOTO HA HA HA what a gullible fucking idiot
Sooner or later you are going to have to accept one thing
EXPATTAFFY IS NOW THE KING
HA HA HA

Weird.  1) It's not been deleted and 2) when I increase brightness I don't see what he sees.  So completely disconnected from reality.
Precisely what I thought.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on January 24, 2016, 02:17:09 AM
I wondered whether he was talking about the description of photo, not the photo, which is correct in the ALSJ. It is clearly not the CSM it's the SIV-B, and when you look at it in the context of the rest of the magazine it obviously couldn't be.

The Apollo Image Atlas has it described as 'Earth', and this is because that's what it says in the original Photography Index. One mistake transcribing notes compounded by another one.

What he's talking about is what happens when you adjust the levels in the image (rather than just the brightness):

(http://i66.tinypic.com/3536oig.jpg)

It's this kind of sloppy editing to improve the look of the images that is what sends these idiots frothing at the mouth. They forget that the original images have been out there long before Photoshop was invented, and other scans (like the Apollo Image Atlas one) don't show this.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: Abaddon on January 24, 2016, 05:13:33 AM
Taffy suffered a stroke before he got into the HB nonsense.

I don't engage with him at all because it is immoral to me to beat up the impaired.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on January 24, 2016, 05:45:44 AM
That can't be the S-IVB. Nobody went inside the LM until the S-IVB was long gone.

To me it looks like the CSM, seen almost end-on from the SPS side, side-lit by the sun.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on January 24, 2016, 06:11:43 AM
It's this kind of sloppy editing to improve the look of the images that is what sends these idiots frothing at the mouth.
That's not sloppy editing, it's JPEG compression.

The giveaway is that the dimensions of the blocks are almost all multiples of 8 and line up on multiples of 8. For example, the block in the lower left corner extends from x=0 to x=375, or 376 pixels wide. 376 = 8*47. It extends from y=1656 to y=2358, or 703 pixels high. (GIMP puts the origin in the upper left corner.) 2359 = 8* 294.875, so the bottom row is missing because of the original image size.  But 1656 = 8 * 207, so this checks again. If the bottom row of pixels were there, it would be 704 pixels high, and 704 = 8 * 88.

What's magic about 8? JPEG works by dividing the image into 8x8 blocks with 64 pixels each, taking a 2-D cosine transform and encoding the results for each block to a DC value representing the average brightness and AC components selected to reproduce the image as accurately as possible given the quantization level (set by the JPEG compression/quality setting). JPEG especially likes to quantize AC components to zero when possible since that greatly aids the subsequent Huffman/run-length-encoding step to get good compression.

The DC value is always encoded with a lot of bits since there's only one value for the whole block. The dark blocks get encoded to a very low DC component (the average brightness for the entire 8x8 block) and the AC components all get quantized to zero, so the entire block takes on a single brightness equal to zero or very close to it. Not true for the non-black blocks as their AC components cannot be quantized to zero. So you see a lot of quantizing error (and probably encoded film grain) which shows up as noise in all the pixels, including any black ones on the edges.

I haven't done this for the other "blocks" in the image; that's an exercise for the reader. But lossy image compression schemes are only designed to look good with ordinary images. They were never meant to be undetectable when you muck with the image curves. 
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on January 24, 2016, 07:08:38 AM
That can't be the S-IVB. Nobody went inside the LM until the S-IVB was long gone.

To me it looks like the CSM, seen almost end-on from the SPS side, side-lit by the sun.

The SIV-B is long gone - you can see it in the photograph ;) Here it is cropped:

(http://i64.tinypic.com/1ypzkx.jpg)

and here's a crop of the last of the 3 images in the sequence:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/66cm54.jpg)

The photographs of Earth either side of the sequence of 3 SIV-B pictures date it pretty precisely as July 16th, sometime after TLI but before the first camera test.

I take your point, btw, about JPG compression.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on January 24, 2016, 08:06:30 AM
I stand corrected. I realize now that while that is indeed a LM RCS quad in the lower left corner, the picture was probably taken from one of the forward-looking CSM windows, which would have been looking past the docked LM. I'm used to seeing that quad in the lower left corner of pictures taken out the CDR's window in the LM.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: onebigmonkey on January 24, 2016, 08:18:21 AM
I stand corrected. I realize now that while that is indeed a LM RCS quad in the lower left corner, the picture was probably taken from one of the forward-looking CSM windows, which would have been looking past the docked LM. I'm used to seeing that quad in the lower left corner of pictures taken out the CDR's window in the LM.

:)

Probably window number 5:

Quote
005:13:26 Aldrin: Houston, Apollo 11. We've got the, uh, what appears to be the S-IVB in sight, at, oh, I'd estimate a couple of miles away. It's at our number 5 window and the dump appears to be coming out of two radially opposite directions from the S-IVB.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on January 24, 2016, 08:20:26 AM
This'll teach me to look at a photo in context with the others and to look at all the metadata...
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: ka9q on January 24, 2016, 08:25:02 AM
This does seem a somewhat odd place to be during an S-IVB propellant dump. On the later missions at least, these dumps (of LOX, at least) were done through the engine nozzle to produce some thrust to take the stage away from Apollo and past the trailing side of the moon into an earth escape. The delta-V was small but appreciable, and you wouldn't want the stage slamming back into the spacecraft.

Exactly this happened to a spacecraft I worked on in 1983 after it was launched by an ESA Ariane. Somebody forgot to reorient the third stage before the propellant dumps, and....bam!

This must have been somewhat after extraction but before an S-IVB reorientation or an Apollo evasive maneuver to get out of the way before the dumps started.
Title: Re: What becomes of old 'friends'..
Post by: bknight on January 24, 2016, 09:05:19 AM
This discussion is one of the reasons that I love this forum.  You get some experts discussing what may seem to be an anomaly that the HB grab ahold of.

Now I have a few questions, but that may have been answered by ka9q,
1.  Is the square shape of the image that obm presented caused by the "averaging of the compression features of jpg?  With a bright circular object averaged with dark space around it?
2. I only have the normal Windows image programs and SnagIt photo editor.  obm, how did you adjust levels?  I'm not familiar with that adjustment?
3.  The ALSJ clearly describes the image as, AS11-36-5327 (OF300) (  19k or 251k )
SIVB stage.  Where else is the image description?
Title: Re: What becomes