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Off Topic => General Discussion => Topic started by: LionKing on March 18, 2020, 04:23:59 PM

Title: Corona Virus
Post by: LionKing on March 18, 2020, 04:23:59 PM
Dear all,

Hope you are safe from the virus and applying precautions, like isolation and not going out unless very necessary, of course in case your country is affected by the disease.

Interestingly enough, a research paper in Wuhan itself in March 2019 predicted the outbreak. This goes to show how much research work and public health is important to be listened to. It shows also that China should stop eating everything that moves, especially with the cruelty applied on animals.

I watched the movie Inferno again today. It spoke of huge numbers of visitors to Rome because of pilgrimage. It is tragic what is happening in Italy. There are burning of corpses and high mortality rates, and I red that people are not allowed to say the last goodbye to the deceased relatives :(

At any rates, hope that this period will pass, as we are already in financial crisis, and hospitals can't afford high numbers of infected, today reaching 133, 5 dead. Public places are closed except for restaurants that have delivery, so that people can order them without going out.

As everything has its pros and cons, the virus has made Earth a cleaner place, and the animals are safe in their forests. Most importantly, many people are working from home .. only if this can remain as such after the virus danger time passes :)

Stay safe


Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: Peter B on March 21, 2020, 01:20:52 AM
Thank you for your thoughts, Lion King, and stay safe yourself.

All I can say about the virus at the moment is, thankfully it waited until our bushfires were out. If the virus had come two months earlier I shudder to think what we'd be going through now.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: LionKing on March 21, 2020, 08:59:31 AM
Thank you for your thoughts, Lion King, and stay safe yourself.

All I can say about the virus at the moment is, thankfully it waited until our bushfires were out. If the virus had come two months earlier I shudder to think what we'd be going through now.

Thanks Peter.

Here it came with a falling economic situation where already people are not finding work, and with the rumors that the home staying period will continue to next month, I don't know what will happen to people who depend on daily work to live. Let us pray a medicine is developed very soon.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: JayUtah on March 21, 2020, 05:51:10 PM
Thank you for the good wishes.  Truly some of us live in unkind times.  I'm old enough to be in a high-risk group for having a bad time of COVID-19, should it come to that.  In happier news, two of my friends have weathered the illness and come out okay.  They're young and in very fit shape (professional ballet dancers), so they've had the mildest case.

You may have heard that my area suffered a 5.7-magnitude earthquake a few days ago.  My house was relatively undamaged -- just a few things knocked off shelves and broken, and some frightened pets.  Sadly one of the theaters I work at was pretty much right at the epicenter and has suffered significant structural damage.  We were closed due to the quarantine, but we may not be able to reopen without significant structural refit -- the structure is well over a hundred years old.  And when it becomes safe to work together again in groups, my engineering firm is going to have to perform several days' worth of equipment recalibration.

Everyone here is in good spirits, though.  There's much to lament, but we're focusing on the positive.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: LionKing on March 21, 2020, 06:35:51 PM
Thank you for the good wishes.  Truly some of us live in unkind times.  I'm old enough to be in a high-risk group for having a bad time of COVID-19, should it come to that.  In happier news, two of my friends have weathered the illness and come out okay.  They're young and in very fit shape (professional ballet dancers), so they've had the mildest case.

You may have heard that my area suffered a 5.7-magnitude earthquake a few days ago.  My house was relatively undamaged -- just a few things knocked off shelves and broken, and some frightened pets.  Sadly one of the theaters I work at was pretty much right at the epicenter and has suffered significant structural damage.  We were closed due to the quarantine, but we may not be able to reopen without significant structural refit -- the structure is well over a hundred years old.  And when it becomes safe to work together again in groups, my engineering firm is going to have to perform several days' worth of equipment recalibration.

Everyone here is in good spirits, though.  There's much to lament, but we're focusing on the positive.

Glad to hear you are OK and those around you healed. Sorry to hear about the earthquake, it can be fightening, but everythingnthat passes without unreperrable damage is in fact a gain. This includes work. 

It was recommended by doctors I listened to to take ingredients that keep our immune system empowered so that we can fight the disease.Maybe this is a good option to go for. Isolation remains very crucial until the situation passes. Afterall, the epidemiological curve should reach its maximum hight before it starts to go down. Until then, we will have to fill our time with activities that can be done at home.

Take care
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: Obviousman on March 22, 2020, 12:37:58 AM
Thank you for the good wishes.  Truly some of us live in unkind times.  I'm old enough to be in a high-risk group for having a bad time of COVID-19, should it come to that.  In happier news, two of my friends have weathered the illness and come out okay.  They're young and in very fit shape (professional ballet dancers), so they've had the mildest case.

You may have heard that my area suffered a 5.7-magnitude earthquake a few days ago.  My house was relatively undamaged -- just a few things knocked off shelves and broken, and some frightened pets.  Sadly one of the theaters I work at was pretty much right at the epicenter and has suffered significant structural damage.  We were closed due to the quarantine, but we may not be able to reopen without significant structural refit -- the structure is well over a hundred years old.  And when it becomes safe to work together again in groups, my engineering firm is going to have to perform several days' worth of equipment recalibration.

Everyone here is in good spirits, though.  There's much to lament, but we're focusing on the positive.

Good to hear, mate. Seriously - take care. I'm likewise at risk (Type 2 diabetic) but have been able to work remotely. We're all in good condition down here. Wishing all the best to my US friends and hoping you all stay safe and get through this relatively unscathed.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: Peter B on March 22, 2020, 02:07:44 AM
I'm having Apollo 13 moments: on that mission they had to work out how to shut down the Command Module in such a way that they could restart it in a few days. Here the government is working out how to shut down the country in such a way that they can restart it in a few months...
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: jfb on March 23, 2020, 10:49:59 AM
I'm one of the lucky ones - I can easily work from home, we were able to stock up before the panic (caused by what's-his-face's address), I have decent-if-not-awesome health coverage and my job is reasonably secure until small community banks start blowing up (which will happen if this goes long enough).  I'm not looking at my 401(k) for the rest of the year, though, my blood pressure's high enough as it is.  We're doing our best to support our local small businesses that we will rely on after this all passes by buying gift certificates and crediting accounts so they have income during this period, but I don't know if that's going to support them long enough (they're talking about this lasting until June or later). 

Our governor (Greg Abbott, TX) gave an address yesterday that was reasonably reassuring.  He's fast-tracking nurse certification, using the National Guard to help stand up treatment and testing facilities, working with hospitals to maximize bed space (all elective surgeries are to be postponed), setting up daycare centers for children of healthcare and other essential workers, etc.

He's not going to implement a full-state lockdown, at least not yet (it had only been 48 hours since he issued the no-gatherings-greater-than-10 EO, so we don't know how (in)effective that's been yet).  200 out of 254 counties have not reported any cases, and a good chunk of those don't have a lot of traffic in and out of them.  Local officials can implement shutdowns for specific cities and counties (I don't think Abbott has the ability to order shutdowns on a county-by-county basis - I think it's all or nothing).  That's causing a problem at the moment as Dallas has instituted a shutdown but Forth Worth has not.  Given that we call it DFW for a reason (it's basically one gargantuan metroplex), that's not going to work. 

He's dragooned Dell's VP of supply and logistics to help the state source equipment and supplies directly.  He's pretty much given up on any federal assistance, and if you were watching closely, there was a brief flash of white-hot loathing as he said this.  Abbott's a Republican, but he's not a Trumper (at least not at the moment).  His first term was a total clown show, but so far he's handling this crisis about as well as anyone could.  Better than places like FL, AL, GA, MI, at least. 
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: gillianren on March 24, 2020, 11:58:55 AM
We're under lockdown.  Of course, we're also, I believe, still the state worst hit by this so far, though I strongly suspect we're going to be surpassed quickly, if things keep up the way they are.  All non-essential businesses are to be closed.  I have no idea how this is going to change our house closing, which was scheduled for Monday, or how the move is going to go.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: Bryanpoprobson on March 24, 2020, 01:07:29 PM
We're under lockdown.  Of course, we're also, I believe, still the state worst hit by this so far, though I strongly suspect we're going to be surpassed quickly, if things keep up the way they are.  All non-essential businesses are to be closed.  I have no idea how this is going to change our house closing, which was scheduled for Monday, or how the move is going to go.

I'm in the same boat, due to move on Saturday had already transferred all broadband and phone services to the new property (due to complete on Sunday). Have also closed my office and we are working from home. Now yesterday we are in total lockdown. Can I move? Will my internet services be transferred? 50% of my house has been transferred already, including freezer food and household products. No answers from anyone. 
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: Obviousman on March 24, 2020, 02:51:08 PM
What is happening with the US Senate? Is there pork-barreling? Is it one side or both? I'm a Trump hater but you guys have to get this money flowing to save jobs, and to save lives.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: Allan F on March 24, 2020, 04:14:30 PM
Denmark has been locked down for about two weeks now. No restaurants, bars, barber shops, tattoo shops, all closed down. Every business where people are in close proximity has been closed. All forms of organized sport is closed, along with all fitness-centers. Public transport is running, but almost nobody uses it. Every shopping mall has been closed - only freestanding food stores are open. The first day of lockdown was a time of panic. People rushed to the stores to buy (yes, toilet paper and yeast) all kinds of supplies, totally ignoring the fact that those stores would remain open. Schools and daycare centers have shut down. It is now a fine of 1500 DKr (around 200 USD) to assemble in groups larger than 10 people - inside or outside. Bars and restaurants are fined 5000 DKr (about 700 USD) if they remain open.

My own business has taken a very big hit - 80-90% loss of income. The government will eventually provide some financial compensation, but I may very well have to change the loan in my house to take some of the burden off of my economy. I'll be fine, but I have colleagues, who will suffer badly and many will have to close permanently.

Hospitals are running low on essential supplies like personal protection items like goggles and one-time-use protective gear. Hand sanitizer is impossible to find in any stores. Factories have changed their production runs to meet the demand.

Today a total of 32 dead so far.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: jfb on March 24, 2020, 06:06:13 PM
What is happening with the US Senate? Is there pork-barreling? Is it one side or both? I'm a Trump hater but you guys have to get this money flowing to save jobs, and to save lives.

Per WaPo (https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/03/23/trump-coronavirus-senate-economic-stimulus/), they're close to finalizing a $2 tn relief package.  The initial bill failed since it gave Mnuchin carte blanche to issue something like $500 bn in loans without any oversight.  There were similarly looty provisions that are being modified. 

Of course, now Trump wants everyone back to work and in restaurants and hotels (his hotels, anyway) by Easter, which ... sure, why not, what could possibly go wrong with that plan?

Yes, the current lockdown is bad for economic growth.  So's 80% of the workforce being sick all at the same time.  It ain't gonna be beer and skittles either way.  You want to talk about supply chain problems, what happens when half your factory is on its back?  How about your long-haul truckers and pilots?  Not to mention hospitals and insurance providers blowing up left and right. 
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: Obviousman on March 24, 2020, 07:55:03 PM
Interesting.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-25/coronavirus-covid-19-modelling-stay-home-chart/12084144
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: Ranb on March 24, 2020, 08:58:53 PM
I'm still working at my Naval shipyard job; it is considered essential work.  The more elderly employees and those with medical problems have leave with pay, other are working from home, including my bosses boss who I would rather not talk to.  Otherwise I'm getting to work faster in the lighter traffic and doing the same work.  The stores are still open and some restaurants are still open for take-out and delivery.  The drive-in cinema is doing very well I hear.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: Peter B on March 25, 2020, 04:49:39 AM
What is happening with the US Senate? Is there pork-barreling? Is it one side or both? I'm a Trump hater but you guys have to get this money flowing to save jobs, and to save lives.

Per WaPo (https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/03/23/trump-coronavirus-senate-economic-stimulus/), they're close to finalizing a $2 tn relief package.  The initial bill failed since it gave Mnuchin carte blanche to issue something like $500 bn in loans without any oversight.  There were similarly looty provisions that are being modified. 

Of course, now Trump wants everyone back to work and in restaurants and hotels (his hotels, anyway) by Easter, which ... sure, why not, what could possibly go wrong with that plan?

Yes, the current lockdown is bad for economic growth.  So's 80% of the workforce being sick all at the same time.  It ain't gonna be beer and skittles either way.  You want to talk about supply chain problems, what happens when half your factory is on its back?  How about your long-haul truckers and pilots?  Not to mention hospitals and insurance providers blowing up left and right.

According to this article (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-25/coronavirus-update-australia-covid19-olympics-usa-india-lockdown/12086878) Trump would like packed churches for Easter.

Quote
"Wouldn't it be great to have all of the churches full," Mr Trump said in a subsequent interview. "You'll have packed churches all over our country."

Okay, apparently Trump hates Christians...!
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: Peter B on March 25, 2020, 06:13:12 AM
And this article suggests a worrying time for the UK: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-25/boris-johnson-changes-his-stance-on-uk-coronavirus-outbreak/12086234

Quote
Asked by a reporter when police would begin enforcement of social distancing, Johnson spluttered in faux outrage: "The police?"

Obviously it'd be silly if all they did to enforce social distancing was to sing "Don't stand so close to me."
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: gillianren on March 25, 2020, 10:25:55 AM
I'm in the same boat, due to move on Saturday had already transferred all broadband and phone services to the new property (due to complete on Sunday). Have also closed my office and we are working from home. Now yesterday we are in total lockdown. Can I move? Will my internet services be transferred? 50% of my house has been transferred already, including freezer food and household products. No answers from anyone. 

I contacted the person I thought was most likely to know--our realtor.  She says that they've worked things out so that people in the process of closing can finish closing on houses without actually having to come in contact with anyone--even she can't get together with us and will have to hide our key on the property and let us know where it is by phone.  As for moving, what worries me is things like my big bookcase, which I'm pretty sure doesn't even fit in my van.  It'll take time, but we can do all of it other than a few pieces of furniture ourselves, but I don't know what we're going to do about the few big pieces of furniture.  From what I can tell, as long as we don't stop anywhere (other than to get gas or groceries), we can go between our apartment and the house.  We're going to be figuring out utilities probably Friday, then getting keys Monday.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: jfb on March 25, 2020, 10:33:26 AM
What is happening with the US Senate? Is there pork-barreling? Is it one side or both? I'm a Trump hater but you guys have to get this money flowing to save jobs, and to save lives.

Per WaPo (https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/03/23/trump-coronavirus-senate-economic-stimulus/), they're close to finalizing a $2 tn relief package.  The initial bill failed since it gave Mnuchin carte blanche to issue something like $500 bn in loans without any oversight.  There were similarly looty provisions that are being modified. 

Of course, now Trump wants everyone back to work and in restaurants and hotels (his hotels, anyway) by Easter, which ... sure, why not, what could possibly go wrong with that plan?

Yes, the current lockdown is bad for economic growth.  So's 80% of the workforce being sick all at the same time.  It ain't gonna be beer and skittles either way.  You want to talk about supply chain problems, what happens when half your factory is on its back?  How about your long-haul truckers and pilots?  Not to mention hospitals and insurance providers blowing up left and right.

According to this article (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-25/coronavirus-update-australia-covid19-olympics-usa-india-lockdown/12086878) Trump would like packed churches for Easter.

Quote
"Wouldn't it be great to have all of the churches full," Mr Trump said in a subsequent interview. "You'll have packed churches all over our country."

Okay, apparently Trump hates Christians...!

There's a Twitter hashtag #ETTD - Everything Trump Touches Dies.  It's about to become literal

But again, Trump isn't the problem, all the people enabling and defending him are the problem.  People like McConnell and Cornyn and Paul and Barr and Nunes and our own Light Governor Patrick all have a choice to not pretend that Trump is a medieval petty noble and they are his vassals, and they should be made to feel the consequences of that choice. 

Then you have Prothero Hannity and the rest of the FOX "News" crew encouraging virtual suicide among its primary demographic, which is somehow winning, I guess. 
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: molesworth on March 25, 2020, 08:04:07 PM
Quote
Asked by a reporter when police would begin enforcement of social distancing, Johnson spluttered in faux outrage: "The police?"

Obviously it'd be silly if all they did to enforce social distancing was to sing "Don't stand so close to me."
Well, it might work - apparently explaining the risks to people doesn't seem to get the message across.  (Although, having said that, it does look like it's starting to take effect.)

My place is on a work-from-home basis now, apart from a couple of production guys getting stuff shipped out.  Judging by the drop in emails a lot of our customers are scaling back too.  I'm not sure how this is going to affect launch schedules, especially the imminent ones, but I guess a few folks will still be trying to get things ready on time.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: gillianren on March 26, 2020, 11:01:11 AM
Our apartment complex has someone trying to organize a rent strike, which . . . makes me wish we hadn't already paid our rent.  Still, it's our last rent.  Graham and I were talking over logistics of the move last night, and the thing I have to do today is look into whether Washington State considers U-Haul rental an essential service.  I kind of wonder if they'd let him borrow one of the trucks he uses for appliance delivery at work.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: JayUtah on March 26, 2020, 12:32:17 PM
So far my tenants don't need a rent deferral, but it's available to them for asking and they know this.

Sadly our last drive-in cinema in the county closed many years ago.  It hasn't been torn down yet, so I wonder what it would take to get it recommissioned.

As far as packed churches, all those in our state have closed their doors.  But there was the one incident earlier in the week were large crowds gathered at the airport to welcome Mormon missionaries who had been brought back on chartered flights -- all this in defiance of both government orders and church edicts.  This caused a big stink in our local media, rightly so.  It is exactly the kind of thing we're supposed to be avoiding.

Luckily I can do a great deal of my work from home.  I've had a home office set up for many years.  We're also an essential service, but not all our customers are.  But I have incredibly talented business people, including our H.R. director who sent out the list of instructions for safe work practices.  Number one on the list was, "Report all zombies to your supervisor."  It really helped lighten the mood.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: raven on March 26, 2020, 03:30:27 PM
They're the ones buying up  all the TP for a disease that doesn't include gastrointestinal distress in its symptoms.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: MBDK on March 27, 2020, 08:11:20 AM
"Report all zombies to your supervisor."
Please don't turn me in.  I promise I will eat your brain last.   :-X
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: Peter B on March 27, 2020, 09:49:06 AM
I said good bye to a few work colleagues this afternoon. From next Monday our team is split in two, one half working from home and the other half in the office, rotating on a weekly basis.

We have no idea how long this will go on, potentially for a few months. So it's likely to be that long before we see each other again, except perhaps on a computer screen.

It's a bit of a shame, as there's a pretty good rapport between us, with respect for each others' knowledge, and plenty of good-natured ribbing about topics such as football teams, cars and raising families (and lately, sharing of Covid-19 memes).

The big downside is how shambolically the whole thing was organised. We knew that work-from-home was coming, and assumed we'd have enough warning that we'd have time to do things like discuss procedures, digitise paper forms, warn staff and negotiate which half of the team we'd be on. Instead, it started with a work-from-home roster being sent out with no notice and with no negotiation allowed, and ended with managers showing no realisation that working from home is going to be a much less efficient way of working.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: gillianren on March 27, 2020, 10:29:32 AM
So far my tenants don't need a rent deferral, but it's available to them for asking and they know this.

Yeah, whereas we know for a fact that it isn't, here.  We got very pointed notices posted the other day about how rent was due on the first as always, he still wouldn't take cash, and there's no one in the office to negotiate with even if the manager were allowed to negotiate. 
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: LionKing on March 27, 2020, 02:13:09 PM
Just saw videos of thefts of malls in usa. How can this be allowed??
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: jfb on March 27, 2020, 03:44:15 PM
Just saw videos of thefts of malls in usa. How can this be allowed??

I originally read that as "theft of mail", to which I thought "that's brave" - you generally don't mess with postal inspectors, they take their job seriously.

As for theft of malls...

My theory is that most Americans have not experienced a real crisis (health or otherwise), something that has a real effect on our daily lives, in living memory.  I think the last health crisis that had a real impact across the country was polio, when parents wouldn't let their kids out of the house for weeks or months at at time.  But thanks to Jonas Salk, that's not an issue anymore.  Since then, we've never had to really inconvenience ourselves on a large scale.  We've been at war for almost 20 years now, but you wouldn't know it.  Hell, we were told explicitly not to let the fact that we were at war interfere with shopping. 

So the idea that there's a crisis we can't shop our way out of has people a little freaked.  We just have no cultural basis anymore to act towards the common good by moderating our usual gluttony, and that's just inconceivable - it's the end of the goddamned world as we know it. 

We've become an infantile, self-obsessed, self-centered culture, and we put people just like us in charge. 

So yeah, at times like this, we start looting. 
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: LionKing on March 29, 2020, 06:56:34 AM
The role of the police should be emphasied in this critical time. People will not expected to follow regulations, including staying at home for their own sake.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: gillianren on March 29, 2020, 11:58:39 AM
I'm wary of emphasizing the role of police until we have proper oversight of them and they can be trusted not to kill innocent people.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: MBDK on March 29, 2020, 02:53:54 PM
I'm wary of emphasizing the role of police until we have proper oversight of them and they can be trusted not to kill innocent people.
I share your sentiment about not emphasizing their role, but question your trust issue.  I am sorry that you seem to feel that way, but do you run and hide when you see them, or do you actually behave normally, trusting them not to kill you (presuming you are innocent)?
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: LionKing on March 30, 2020, 10:09:08 AM
They don't need to kill..they put heavy money taxes for people not going out, or put those who steal in prison. Only if the thieveshave weapons and fire on them, then the normal measures will be taken.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: gillianren on March 30, 2020, 11:20:53 AM
I'm wary of emphasizing the role of police until we have proper oversight of them and they can be trusted not to kill innocent people.
I share your sentiment about not emphasizing their role, but question your trust issue.  I am sorry that you seem to feel that way, but do you run and hide when you see them, or do you actually behave normally, trusting them not to kill you (presuming you are innocent)?

There's a large middle ground between those two places.  As it happens, I view even our local police with considerable suspicion, because as a mentally ill person, I'm in greater danger than the average white woman.  If I ever have a mental health crisis in public, it puts my life in danger.  Our police in this state actively fought having to take a mandatory deescalation training in dealing with mentally ill people that's been shown to save lives.  Both the lives of mentally ill people and the lives of police officers.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: MBDK on March 30, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
I'm wary of emphasizing the role of police until we have proper oversight of them and they can be trusted not to kill innocent people.
I share your sentiment about not emphasizing their role, but question your trust issue.  I am sorry that you seem to feel that way, but do you run and hide when you see them, or do you actually behave normally, trusting them not to kill you (presuming you are innocent)?
There's a large middle ground between those two places.
Of course there is.  That was my point.  There is a big difference between having suspicions and complete distrust.  Also, please remember, the highly publicized tragedies are by far the aberration, rather than the overwhelming norm.  That does NOT excuse the cases that do happen, but proves they are not everyday events.  I see it as akin to taking a flight.  There have been hundreds and hundreds of airplane crashes over the years, but when I board one, I trust that it WON'T crash.
Title: Re: Corona Virus
Post by: gillianren on March 30, 2020, 06:26:19 PM
Well, that's the thing, isn't it?  Someone's keeping track of airplane crashes.  No one is keeping track of how many people are killed by the police.