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Allen, you don't need to go to college to get the basic understanding of physics that you so clearly lack.  A good school science course should do the trick.  You need to concentrate first on understanding exactly what "heat" and "temperature" mean.
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Other Conspiracy Theories / Re: Flat Earth believer to launch homemade rocket.
« Last post by mako88sb on December 11, 2017, 04:30:20 PM »
Yes. I tried debating a flat-earther once and it's a hopeless cause. Those folks are batshit crazy, and that's being generous in my opinion.
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Space temperature. Space physics, and the naked emperor.
« Last post by nomuse on December 11, 2017, 10:47:57 AM »
Yah...another ambiguous term.

"Space," meaning what's outside of Earth's atmosphere, or "Space," meaning what's between all the THINGS that are beyond Earth's atmosphere.

Best to use "vacuum" for the later. (Even if that, too, has some issues.)
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Space temperature. Space physics, and the naked emperor.
« Last post by jfb on December 11, 2017, 09:39:03 AM »
It sounds like you're confusing the concepts of heat and temperature.

Temperature is a measurement of kinetic energy of the atoms/molecules making up some substance.  Heat is the flow of energy from areas of high temperature to areas of low temperature.  Energy can travel through a vacuum as IR radiation. 

The concept of temperature doesn't apply to a vacuum; however, space isn't really a vacuum - it's full of stuff that's radiating heat.  Stars, planets, gas clouds, etc., all have a temperature and all radiate heat out into space.  That 4 Kelvin figure comes from (I believe) averaging all that heat out over the scale of the universe. 

But locally, things are much different.  The surface of the Earth and the Moon are both being warmed by the Sun, because thermal energy can travel through a vacuum as IR radiation.  Any spacecraft traveling between the Earth and Moon is also being warmed by IR radiated from the sun - it's why the Apollo spacecraft were put into a "barbeque roll" during the transit to maintain an even temperature over the surface of the spacecraft. 
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Prove 16, 35, 70mm & TV was taken at the same time.
« Last post by Kiwi on December 11, 2017, 09:01:42 AM »
More from Apollo 11 - Buzz Aldrin taking his bootprint photos. Unfortunately he is mostly offscreen in the 16mm frames. Go to the Apollo 11 Lunar Surface Journal - Mobility and Photography - and the Image Library for full links.

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110:25:09 Aldrin (at the MESA): In general, time spent in the shadow doesn't seem to have any (garbled) thermal effects. (garbled) feel inside the suit. There is a difference, of course, in the (garbled) radiation and the helmet. So I think there's a tendency to feel a little cooler in the shadow than we feel out in the Sun. (Pause)

16-mm film clip 2 minutes 32 seconds ( 82 Mb MPG) by Ken Glover. May require VLC for playback.

[Buzz is about to do the Bootprint Penetration Experiment for the soil mechanics experts. He will take five photo, AS11-40-5876 to 80.]

[In the 16-mm film, the shadow of the Hasselblad lens can be seen at the left edge of the frame, with a small, sunlit portion of Buzz's suit just above it. About 16 seconds later, Buzz moves down-Sun with the camera in his right hand. He disappears from the 16-mm frame to the left, again, at about 110:25:49. At this point, he probably takes AS11-40- 5876, which shows an undisturbed patch of soil. At about 110:26:05, his right leg comes into view as he plants his right boot deliberately on the pristine patch. A frame from the 16-mm film taken at about 110:26:08 shows him with his leg extended and his boot planted. He then lifts his foot and backs out of the 16-mm field-of-view and takes two "after" pictures of the bootprint: 5877 and 5878. He took the second of these from slightly farther away and got better focus. Erwin D'Hoore has combined them as a red-blue anaglyph (1.9Mb). The length of the boot is about 33 cm and its greatest width is about 15 cm.]

[At about 110:27:00 Buzz steps back into view at the left and plants his boot just beyond the previous bootprint. In a frame from the 16-mm film taken at about 110:27:02, the first bootprint in just behind Buzz's boot. He now takes two pictures of his boot and the new print: 5879 and 5880. The 5-cm rock next to Buzz's boot in the Hasselblad images can be picked out in the 16-mm frame. Journal Contributor John Hancock was combined 5879 and 80 to give a ]

[In November 2010, Journal Contributor Vlad Pustynski, during the course of his massive photogrammetric re-evaluation of the landing site, was able to identify these two bootprints in photos taken later in the EVA and in post-EVA window shots. In a detail from pre-EVA photo AS11-39-5771, Vlad has labeled four small rocks associated with the bootprints. Three of these small rocks appear in a labeled version of AS11-40-5877, which is Buzz's documentation photo taken after he made the first bootprint. A labeled detail from the 110:27:02 DAC frame shows rocks 435 and 437 near the second bootprint. Perhaps surprisingly, both bootprints survived all the later activity around the LM. A labeled detail from AS11-40-5885, a frame from Buzz's plus-Z pan shows both bootprints and two of the small rocks. Finally, a labeled detail from AS11-37-5484, a post-EVA shot Buzz took out his window shows the same scene from a different perspective. [Readers should note that Buzz is following his checklist fairly closely and that the footprint photos are one of his tasks. During the 1991 mission review, he remembered that he was the one who took them.]
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Prove 16, 35, 70mm & TV was taken at the same time.
« Last post by Kiwi on December 11, 2017, 08:37:49 AM »
I think it would be a problem for the Apollo hoax if we could prove 16, 70mm and TV was all taken at the same time...

Apollo16uvc: Because of your posts, I have occasionally wondered whether you make full use of the Apollo Lunar Surface Journals.
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/frame.html

They contain frequent mentions of match-ups between Hasselblad photos and TV images and/or 16mm frames.

Such as these from Apollo 11:

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110:09:35 McCandless: Oh, it's beautiful, Mike. It really is.

[In the 16-mm film by about this time, the top rod is extended about as far as it is going to go and Buzz is holding the flag by the top rod as he works to extend it. Neil then takes the flagstaff while Buzz moves to the right and watches him try to get pole into the surface.]

110:09:39 Collins: Oh, gee, that's great! Is the lighting halfway decent?

[In the 16-mm film, Buzz comes over and takes hold of the bottom, outside corner of the flag and tugs on it. He loses his grip.]

110:09:43 McCandless: Yes, indeed. They've got the flag up now and you can see the stars and stripes on the lunar surface.

RealVideo Clip courtesy Robert Godwin (3 min 44 sec)

110:09:50 Collins: Beautiful. Just beautiful. (Long Pause)

[In the 16-mm film, Buzz backs away again and salutes. He then moves back to the flag and grabs both the top and bottom corners and pulls while Neil holds the staff. Journal Contributor Bob Farwell has inserted a frame from the 16-mm film into a post-EVA pan which merges the views out both windows. A certain amount of artistic license is required to join the two window views and, as well, to fit in the 16-mm frame. The 16-mm camera is mounted at the top of the LMP window and, therefore, the perspective on the near surface is different from the Hasselblad images.]

110:10:16 Armstrong: (To Buzz) That's good. See if you can pull that end off a little bit. Straighten that end up a little? (Pause)

[In the TV picture, Neil is on the right and Buzz is on the left.]

110:10:33 Aldrin: It won't go up. (Pause) Okay.

[Comm Break, while Neil gets the flag pole into the ground. A frame from the 16-mm film shows him just as he finishes. At about 110:11, he backs away toward the north, in the general direction of the TV camera. In the 16-mm film, the flag extends to the right and, in the TV picture to the left. From the perspective of the TV audience, Buzz moves from left to right to the flagstaff side of the scene. A frame from the 16-mm film shows him in position while Neil gets ready to take two pictures of Buzz: AS11-40- 5874 and 5875 (scans by Kipp Teague).]


It's always a good idea to study the photo captions too. Click on Image Library for each mission.


There was one apollo mission where an astronaut jumps, which was then recorded by TV, 16mm and 70mm.

Is this jump John Young's famous two jump-salutes, starting about 120:25:42? If so, hoax-believers had a lot of nonsense to say about them.

The jump-salutes were recorded on TV from partly behind, but a little to the right of the action, with Young jumping twice and Charlie Duke taking the photos, which are AS16-113-18339 and 18340. They show the TV camera on the rover videoing the scene, and the UV camera on the right in the LM's shadow.
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a16/AS16-113-18339HR.jpg
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a16/AS16-113-18340HR.jpg

Captions from the Apollo 16 Image Library (go there for hot links to all images):

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AS16-113-18339 (OF300) (208k or 1300k)

120:25:42 John Young jumps off the ground and salutes for this superb tourist picture. He is off the ground about 1.45 seconds which, in the lunar gravity field, means that he launched himself at a velocity of about 1.17 m/s and reached a maximum height of 0.42 m. Although the suit and backpack weigh as much as he does, his total weight is only about 65 pounds (30 kg) and, to get this height, he only had to bend his knees slightly and then push up with his legs. In the background, we can see the UV astronomy camera, the flag, the LM, the Rover with the TV camera watching John, and Stone Mountain. Journal Contributor Joe Cannaday notes that high-point of John's first jump was at a time close to 120:25:49 and the second was almost exactly three seconds later.

AS16-113-18339/40 Stereo Images: red-blue anaglyph and a left-right image pair

These stereo images were created by Yuri Krasilnikov, who writes, "A bit of artistry was necessary to create credible stereo. In the left-right pair, Charlie captured John's first jump in 18339, which is on the right. In the original of 18340, we see that John isn't as far off the ground and is tilted to his left. In addition, there are footprints beneath him that he made when he landed after the first jump, a clear indication that John is closer to Charlie than he was in 18339. Creation of a credible anaglyph required removal of the image of John from 18340 and careful replacement with the image of John from 18339."

Yuri has also made a two-frame animation (1Mb) of John's jumps. John is more upright in 18339; and there are prominent footprints at his second launch point in 18340.

See, also, a red-blue anaglyph (1.9 Mb) created by Erik van Meihgaarden, who writes, "John did two jumping salutes for Charlie, who took a picture each time John was near the top of his jump. Consequently, we are seeing not only from two slightly different view points but, also, when he was at slightly different places. The TV recordings of these jumps show that John was on the LM side of the flag. Combination of images from the two different jumps creates the impression that John is on Charlie's side of the flag. John also looks like he's jumped more than the half meter he actually achieved. In comparison, because the flag wasn't touched or moved between the two jumps, our stereoview of it is completely legitimate.

AS16-113-18339-40 Red-Blue Anaglyph of the Flag, LRV, and LM (0.7Mb

Anaglyph by Yuri Krasilnikov.

AS16-113-18340 (OF300) (208k or 1300k)
120:25:42 John's second jump lasts about 1.30 seconds and, consequently, his launch velocity is about 1.05 m/s and his maximum height is 0.34 m.
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Space temperature. Space physics, and the naked emperor.
« Last post by ineluki on December 11, 2017, 03:48:00 AM »
Ask the father of Icarus.

Coming up next... Zeus and the Apollo 12 lightning...
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Other Conspiracy Theories / Re: Flat Earth believer to launch homemade rocket.
« Last post by nomuse on December 10, 2017, 09:11:48 PM »
What have I done?

Actually it was my friend's fault. He was doing some historical research and went looking for the height of a particular lighthouse.

Some of you may see this one coming.

Of course he stumbled onto a bunch of flat earth websites, and from there wandered out to some YouTube channels. And now he's turned me on to some of them.

Have I ever mentioned how much I miss the Apollo Hoaxers? Flat Earther Bingo is So Boring.

Here's some of their big arguments:

1) Rivers would have to run uphill (because they'd have to go around the curve of a round Earth, see?)
2) Planes would have to be continuously pushing the nose down lest they head off into space.
3) Tides are impossible because the water would be sucked into space (but the Moon should have fallen down anyhow so never mind).
4) Airplanes (seriously...have they ever been on one?) would have to steer madly clockwise the instant they left the runway, and keep doing that until they crossed the pole and had to steer counter-clockwise to continue compensating for Earth's spin. Oh, and if you jumped up you'd go flying into a wall.

The lighthouse one is actually half-way, err, something. They look at tables of how far out from sea you should be able to see a particular lighthouse, then proceed to get the math wrong in calculating the actual visibility. I keep wanting to ask them, though; Why Build Them Tall in the First Place? Unless, you know, round earth (which they charmingly call "Ball Earth." It's their version of "Astro__."
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Space temperature. Space physics, and the naked emperor.
« Last post by gillianren on December 10, 2017, 12:16:23 PM »
But there is no necessity for molecules to be present in order to have heat.

This is literally just the opposite of true.

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Ask the father of Icarus.

The problem of Icarus is that he had what the Ancient Greeks called hubris.  It meant a kind of arrogance, believing you were more important and capable than you were and reaching beyond your limits.  The inevitable fall was nemesis, a bringing consequences for the arrogance.  You would be well served to live by that example.
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The Hoax Theory / Re: Prove 16, 35, 70mm & TV was taken at the same time.
« Last post by apollo16uvc on December 10, 2017, 11:41:09 AM »
Apollo 11 is a front screen projection, note the transparent astronauts. The 16mm and 70mm film must have been faked later.

No, but it would be great if we could match a bootprint seen on 16mm with a 70mm photo. Preferable, a before print and after one. There is also a bootprint that was photographed with the 35mm closeup camera. Perhaps that would be the best one to compare because we have 16, 35 and 70mm sources for it?

(I have not included TV because its pretty low res, dont think you can make out individual prints with it.)
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