Author Topic: Gardum's thread  (Read 3318 times)

Offline Gardum

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Gardum's thread
« on: September 04, 2017, 09:35:29 PM »
Hello,

I couldn't post before hand as my account had never been authorised so I am here as a noob and first time poster.
Funny thing is I have found the opposite in the sense that I have found truther's to make fake accounts to make out as though there are more believers or promoting the same so called evidence or confirmation.
I have found quite a few people that are believers that just make up stories left and right that go against the transcripts as well as equipment lists provided by NASA and easily found from the NASA site.
I also see a lot of SPECIAL being flouted by believers with no link to what the SPECIAL is.
Made up stories about SPECIAL battery packs, where as the truth is as explained by NASA of the shelf technology was used where ever possible and batteries were one of the off the shelf items used.
Every truther makes out they know for fact how temperatures work in space and on the Moon, yet NASA states complete opposite views as they seem to have results from experiments done in space and on the Moon showing temperatures.
Ask any truther and temperature works like magic in space and on the Moon, NASA states below 56C in the shade which would make any Film unusable but of course Silver Anodising stops anything from getting hot or cold as truthers will say.
Leave an item on the Moon in the shade for 8 hours and truthers say no problems it won't get to cold, what temperature it does get none of them say but it's not bad as otherwise it would go against the possibility of certain things being possible.
NASA states 123C in the Sun on the Moon at the minimum because of the time they landed.
Funny thing is from all scientific sites I could find once the Sun shines on anything in space and on the Moon it doesn't matter what time of day it is as there is no atmosphere for the Sun to go through to lesson it's effects.
Any object in direct Sun can reach a temperature of 250C which is what happens and again proof from ISS Astronauts and Shuttle crew explaining the problems they have whilst outside in space with tools getting so hot they need to use insulation wraps or blankets.
This was easily found by a couple Google checks from NASA missions from the ISS and Shuttle Crew.
Yet when it comes to the Moon it's all SPECIAL no metal objects get to hot or too cold, must have been the Goldilocks time of day on the Moon each time.
Not one of you people look at the video and see them moving in slow motion and have one problem with it, all you get is well they wouldn't move fast as the ground has sharp rocks and they could cut their suit or something similar, yet truth shows them falling let right and centre doing weird movements to get back up, not once do you hear any of them talking as though at any second they could die.
First people on the Moon never done before never landed a manned vehicle on the Moon all first time events as none of the equipment they used had ever been tested in a Lunar environment.
Yet they went from a less than 60% success rate to a 100% for every manned mission.
Years later they couldn't get close to this with the Shuttle missions.
I am sure I will get a few responses that Believers would never lie or make things up :)

Offline Geordie

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2017, 10:19:56 PM »
[Large body of text with no white space]

That post is daunting, what with the complete absence of white space. My eyeballs had a fit. Please let me suggest that you hit the Enter key twice instead of just once.

I'm a newby here as well, but welcome!
.           She's on fire\  And she burns through the night at the speed of light\
             She's on fire\  With the heat of the beat right beneath her feet\
              She's on fire\  And the name of the game is to fuel her flame\
               She's on fire, fire, fire, fire, fire!

Offline Geordie

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2017, 10:28:42 PM »
Yet they went from a less than 60% success rate to a 100% for every manned mission.
Years later they couldn't get close to this with the Shuttle missions.
I am sure I will get a few responses that Believers would never lie or make things up :)
You contend that 98.5% is not close to 100%?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 10:34:17 PM by Geordie »
.           She's on fire\  And she burns through the night at the speed of light\
             She's on fire\  With the heat of the beat right beneath her feet\
              She's on fire\  And the name of the game is to fuel her flame\
               She's on fire, fire, fire, fire, fire!

Offline bknight

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2017, 11:49:37 PM »
Hello,

I couldn't post before hand as my account had never been authorised so I am here as a noob and first time poster.
Welcome to the board.  As Geordie has indicated, use some text formatting to make your posts more easily read.
Quote
Funny thing is I have found the opposite in the sense that I have found truther's to make fake accounts to make out as though there are more believers or promoting the same so called evidence or confirmation.
I have found quite a few people that are believers that just make up stories left and right that go against the transcripts as well as equipment lists provided by NASA and easily found from the NASA site.
Here you won't find anyone making claims that are not backed up with either firsthand knowledge/experience or links to data.
Quote
I also see a lot of SPECIAL being flouted by believers with no link to what the SPECIAL is.
Made up stories about SPECIAL battery packs, where as the truth is as explained by NASA of the shelf technology was used where ever possible and batteries were one of the off the shelf items used.
Could you be more specific, this allegation is incomplete as far as answering, what SPECIAL?
Quote
Every truther makes out they know for fact how temperatures work in space and on the Moon, yet NASA states complete opposite views as they seem to have results from experiments done in space and on the Moon showing temperatures.

Temperatures follow how physics work whether on Earth, in space, on the moon, on Mars, everywhere.  For example heat of which temperature are a measure of, have only three ways of transferring to say a film cassette.  They are Conduction, Convection and Radiation.  Conductance is the direct transfer of heat by contact.  Convection is the transfer of heat by currents of an atmosphere.  Radiation is the transfer of heat by absorption of a light source. Now Convection is virtually impossible in the near zero atmosphere of the Moon.  Conduction requires two objects to be in contact long enough for heat to flow from the hot surface to a cooler surface.  You mention film later in the post, but I'll address it here.  The film canisters would have to be in contact with the surface of the Moon long enough for the film to heat up, not done during the lunar EVA's.  The third way is one of the easiest to protect against.  All one has to do is make the surface shiny so that most of the energy to be bounces away and not have them in direct sunlight for a prolonged period of time.   You will note that the film canisters were very shiny.  So high temps in the Apollo mission were not a problem.  As far as the low temperatures, this again was not an issue as the film was initially produced to operate in temperature ranges of 120-65 C.
https://sterileeye.com/2009/07/23/the-apollo-11-hasselblad-cameras/

Quote

Ask any truther and temperature works like magic in space and on the Moon, NASA states below 56C in the shade which would make any Film unusable but of course Silver Anodising stops anything from getting hot or cold as truthers will say.
Where does NASA indicate that film would be unusable at -56, or is this your assumption?

Quote
Leave an item on the Moon in the shade for 8 hours and truthers say no problems it won't get to cold, what temperature it does get none of them say but it's not bad as otherwise it would go against the possibility of certain things being possible.
NASA states 123C in the Sun on the Moon at the minimum because of the time they landed.
Funny thing is from all scientific sites I could find once the Sun shines on anything in space and on the Moon it doesn't matter what time of day it is as there is no atmosphere for the Sun to go through to lesson it's effects.
Any object in direct Sun can reach a temperature of 250C which is what happens and again proof from ISS Astronauts and Shuttle crew explaining the problems they have whilst outside in space with tools getting so hot they need to use insulation wraps or blankets.
This was easily found by a couple Google checks from NASA missions from the ISS and Shuttle Crew.
Yet when it comes to the Moon it's all SPECIAL no metal objects get to hot or too cold, must have been the Goldilocks time of day on the Moon each time.
Your lack of understanding of heat flow is noted, read my descriptions and if you don't believe them, Google it your self.
Quote
Not one of you people look at the video and see them moving in slow motion and have one problem with it, all you get is well they wouldn't move fast as the ground has sharp rocks and they could cut their suit or something similar, yet truth shows them falling let right and centre doing weird movements to get back up, not once do you hear any of them talking as though at any second they could die.
While death was always a constant on the Lunar surface, I personally don't see them moving slow motion, I see them traversing with bulky suits that limited quick movements.  If you look at enough videos you will many falls.
Quote
First people on the Moon never done before never landed a manned vehicle on the Moon all first time events as none of the equipment they used had ever been tested in a Lunar environment.
The astronauts practiced many times to perfect landings.  The equipment to land on the Moon could not be tested here on Earth as the thrust was not sufficient to prevent crashes here due to higher gravity, so simulators were used to hone the techniques.
Quote
Yet they went from a less than 60% success rate to a 100% for every manned mission.
Years later they couldn't get close to this with the Shuttle missions.
Where are you quoting statistics?

Quote
I am sure I will get a few responses that Believers would never lie or make things up :)
I am not a "believer"  Apollo happened as advertised, it is you who believe that it didn't.  The immense amount of data that is present is proves the landings occurred.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 11:53:07 PM by bknight »
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 01:38:51 AM »
Fail No. 1:  High School Freshman year physics - trying to apply "Earth, with an atmosphere" thinking to the "moon; no atmosphere" reality... a rookie mistake; you have not made a very good start.

You are going to have to come up with better arguments here than you have to in the echo-chamber of conspiracy forums. We are not bunch of Googleversity students here. There are real scientists, real professors of mathematics, real aerospace engineers and real professionals in the fields of photography, cinematography, radio and electronics.

It will not be enough to shoot off unsupported assertions and wild, extravagant claims. You will need something we call 'evidence" to back up any claims that you make. If you don't provide evidence your claim will be dismissed.

The Apollo Programme is established fact. It is backed up by the evidence of half a million people across an enormous range of technical and scientific fields of expertise who were directly or indirectly involved. It is backed up by the evidence TENS OF MILLIONS of technical documents, much of which is freely available to the public. It is backed up by the evidence of an unbroken and consistent narrative from the beginning of the Mercury Program right up until well after the Apollo 17 (last) mission.

Let me point you in the right direction for a start. Here is a man who says he doesn't know whether America put a man on the moon or not, and what's more he doesn't really care either way. What he DOES know however (and he can prove it categorically) is that they they did not fake the filming of the moon landings. Its worth your while to watch this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGXTF6bs1IU
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Offline Bryanpoprobson

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 02:24:14 AM »
Gardum, another thing rather than using this pinned thread I suggest you start your own topic. It just makes things nice and tidy.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say!" "Fools speak, because they have to say something!" (Plato)

Offline onebigmonkey

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2017, 03:20:09 AM »

<other stuff removed>

Not one of you people look at the video and see them moving in slow motion and have one problem with it, all you get is well they wouldn't move fast as the ground has sharp rocks and they could cut their suit or something similar, yet truth shows them falling let right and centre doing weird movements to get back up, not once do you hear any of them talking as though at any second they could die.

You maybe need to listen to the reactions of Duke & Young after their Apollo 16 'Olympics'. They were very concerned. You might also want to look into the construction of the suits - from the way they were built it's almost as if they were expecting them to have to stand up to some wear and tear.

Quote
First people on the Moon never done before never landed a manned vehicle on the Moon all first time events as none of the equipment they used had ever been tested in a Lunar environment.

You mean a vacuum with temperature extremes? Try doing some searching on the testing that was done on the equipment before it even went into space. You mean in space itself? Look into all of the Apollo missions, not just the ones that landed.

Quote
Yet they went from a less than 60% success rate to a 100% for every manned mission.

You think everything went absolutely perfectly on every mission? Really? Again, do some research. Even if you're unaware of the technical issues that occurred with every mission, surely you've come across Apollo 13?


Offline smartcooky

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 07:41:05 AM »
Not one of you people look at the video and see them moving in slow motion and have one problem with it

I don't have a problem with it because I understand why their movements were the way the were (and it isn't slow motion BTW).

Film-maker after film-maker has tried to replicate that movement with camera trickery, overcranking  and slow motion cinematography, and they have failed. No one has been able to duplicate it.... Space 1999 (which ran fron 1975-77, Moontrap (1989) Moon (2009), and others have all failed to accurately replicate this motion. Why? Because it requires filming in a 1/6th gravity environment, and there is simply nowhere on earth you can get this.

Also, there is the dust. When the astronauts move around they kick up dust, and unlike the earth where there is full gravity and an atmosphere, on the moon it is 1/6th gravity and a vacuum. The dust behaves exactly as it would in a vacuum at low gravity... it does not make dust clouds, it falls straight back on the ground... that can only happen if the astronauts are moving around in a vacuum.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 07:46:36 AM by smartcooky »
► What you can assert without evidence, I can dismiss without evidence
► When you argue with idiots you risk being dragged down to their level and beaten with experience.
►"Conspiracism is a shortcut to the illusion of erudition

Offline Trebor

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2017, 08:29:54 AM »
Hi Gardum,
There seems to be a whole lot of 'citation needed' in this.

NASA states below 56C in the shade which would make any Film unusable....

Where does NASA state this?

...but of course Silver Anodising stops anything from getting hot or cold as truthers will say.
Um, who says this? This seems to be a huge oversimplification of how heat is transferred by radiation.

NASA states 123C in the Sun on the Moon at the minimum because of the time they landed.
Where does NASA state this?

Funny thing is from all scientific sites I could find once the Sun shines on anything in space and on the Moon it doesn't matter what time of day it is as there is no atmosphere for the Sun to go through to lesson it's effects.
Source?

I'll stop there.
Welcome to the forum anyway.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2017, 12:06:06 PM »
SNIP

As others have said, use punctuation. It makes it so much easier for you to make yourself understood.


Not one of you people look at the video and see them moving in slow motion

They are not "moving in slow motion". They are moving as one would do in a low gravity vacuum when wearing a stiff, pressurised suit.

all you get is well they wouldn't move fast as the ground has sharp rocks and they could cut their suit or something similar,
What on Earth are you on about here? Are you trying to relay something that some unknown person has told you? Your ignorance about the most basic pieces of knowledge is blinding you. Why don't you go and do a modicum of research, perhaps on the materials that the suits were made of? Or the overshoes that they wore to protect the suit boots? Or the outermost layer of Teflon-coated Beta cloth that was part of the ITMG that was selected precisely for it's wear and abrasion-resistance characteristics? Or of the Chromel-R that was used in the boots and gloves to protect from abrasion?

Also, why do you think that the rocks were sharp?


doing weird movements to get back up

Again, they are not doing "weird movements". How, exactly, would you expect someone to move whilst wearing a stiff pressurised suit and PLSS backpack when in a low gravity vacuum. Here's a hint- the movements would be totally unlike the movements made in a 1 G, 1 bar atmosphere. Again you are showing your total ignorance of even the most basic of facts. You're also making a standard hoaxie claim "Gee...it looks weird". Of course it looks weird...low gravity vacuum environments are anything but normal!

The videos of them falling and kicking up regolith is actually a proff that they are in a low G vacuum. The regolith moves in a ballistic arc....if the Lunar EVAs were filmed on a sounstage on Earth then the regolith would not move like that. The finer material would billow and float in the air.


not once do you hear any of them talking as though at any second they could die.
Why would they?
I presume that you have travelled in a plane? Driven a car? Do you constantly talk about the dangers of crashing, falling from the sky, engine failure, terrorist bomb, a truck running a red light and side-swiping you? Why ever not....driving and flying are dangerous and any second something could happen to kill you to death.

NASA analysed how astronauts move when they fall. After all, it would have been a massive oversight if an astronaut fell and was unable to right himself, or if the spacesuit tore in a slight tumble. Or do you really think that they went to the Moon and didn't make sure that the suits would be up to the task at hand?
Read this report and then come back with your analysis: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/19730008098_1973008098.pdf
(Actually, I know that you won't. People that regurgitate the nonsense that you have posted either aren't capable of reading and understanding this type of material or they refuse to do so. To do so would challenge their hoax beliefs. However, i'll post it just in case there is a lurker reading this that is unsure how to deal with hoax beliefs and finds the information useful.)
"Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur"
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” – Christopher Hitchens.

Offline Bryanpoprobson

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2017, 02:20:50 PM »

I don't have a problem with it because I understand why their movements were the way the were (and it isn't slow motion BTW).

Film-maker after film-maker has tried to replicate that movement with camera trickery, overcranking  and slow motion cinematography, and they have failed. No one has been able to duplicate it.... Space 1999 (which ran fron 1975-77, Moontrap (1989) Moon (2009), and others have all failed to accurately replicate this motion. Why? Because it requires filming in a 1/6th gravity environment, and there is simply nowhere on earth you can get this.

Also, there is the dust. When the astronauts move around they kick up dust, and unlike the earth where there is full gravity and an atmosphere, on the moon it is 1/6th gravity and a vacuum. The dust behaves exactly as it would in a vacuum at low gravity... it does not make dust clouds, it falls straight back on the ground... that can only happen if the astronauts are moving around in a vacuum.

I believe that someone showed a video of astronauts with the speed increased to the level that HB's believe it was slowed down from(astrobrant2? possibly?). Basically it shows that the hand motions of the astronauts become comically fast.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say!" "Fools speak, because they have to say something!" (Plato)

Offline raven

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2017, 03:37:32 PM »

I don't have a problem with it because I understand why their movements were the way the were (and it isn't slow motion BTW).

Film-maker after film-maker has tried to replicate that movement with camera trickery, overcranking  and slow motion cinematography, and they have failed. No one has been able to duplicate it.... Space 1999 (which ran fron 1975-77, Moontrap (1989) Moon (2009), and others have all failed to accurately replicate this motion. Why? Because it requires filming in a 1/6th gravity environment, and there is simply nowhere on earth you can get this.

Also, there is the dust. When the astronauts move around they kick up dust, and unlike the earth where there is full gravity and an atmosphere, on the moon it is 1/6th gravity and a vacuum. The dust behaves exactly as it would in a vacuum at low gravity... it does not make dust clouds, it falls straight back on the ground... that can only happen if the astronauts are moving around in a vacuum.

I believe that someone showed a video of astronauts with the speed increased to the level that HB's believe it was slowed down from(astrobrant2? possibly?). Basically it shows that the hand motions of the astronauts become comically fast.
Yeah, it was a video showing the Apollo 14 inadvertent pendulum. The length of time it swings shows it's in a pretty hard vacuum too. ytmoog did a shorter vid as well on the subject.

Offline bknight

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2017, 04:07:29 PM »
Yeah, it was a video showing the Apollo 14 inadvertent pendulum. The length of time it swings shows it's in a pretty hard vacuum too. ytmoog did a shorter vid as well on the subject.
The calculations are awesome for the fundamentally challenged. :)
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
Eugene Cernan

Offline Trebor

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2017, 04:52:58 PM »
...
Yeah, it was a video showing the Apollo 14 inadvertent pendulum. The length of time it swings shows it's in a pretty hard vacuum too. ytmoog did a shorter vid as well on the subject.
You linked the same video....?

Offline raven

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Re: Gardum's thread
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2017, 05:05:45 PM »
...
Yeah, it was a video showing the Apollo 14 inadvertent pendulum. The length of time it swings shows it's in a pretty hard vacuum too. ytmoog did a shorter vid as well on the subject.
You linked the same video....?
Oops! Here's the other video I meant to link.