Author Topic: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.  (Read 1490 times)

Online apollo16uvc

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Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« on: March 12, 2017, 08:34:15 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mmlmxamw_k

Wrong on quite a few things I think;

They never passed off a training photo or video off as real. Show a source that shows one.

There is full HD video of Apollo 11 16mm film.
High resolution Hasselblad scans.
Astronauts do not change physics, show a video that does.
Highest after Apollo is 600km.
Apollo went around the highest most intense part of the Van Allen radiation belts. Passed through them in an hour. Radiodosimeters show no lethal dose.

Nazis never ran the space Program, they were used solely to build rockets for USA. they were used to co-engineer rockets like the saturn-7 but companies like rockedyne, Boeing build them.

The 'fake rock' was not given by Buzz and Neil. Buzz and Neil never gave rocks to embassadors. It was given by an American ambassador. when the Dutch ambassador died, his family assumed it was a moon rock, while this was never specified anywhere. then the museum assumed the family was right. It looks vastly different from any other Apollo sample.
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Offline bknight

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2017, 09:28:33 AM »
I have had some conversations with Joe on YT.  IMO he should stick to his comedian job since he knows nothing about science, physics or reality.
I think he is posting garbage like this, I'm not going to watch it, just to get some notoriety.  Its just pumping up his ego.
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Online apollo16uvc

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2017, 12:13:23 PM »
I stand corrected! Joe meant miles, not km. 400 miles = 600 Km.
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Offline Bryanpoprobson

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2017, 01:26:39 PM »

The 'fake rock' was not given by Buzz and Neil. Buzz and Neil never gave rocks to embassadors. It was given by an American ambassador. when the Dutch ambassador died, his family assumed it was a moon rock, while this was never specified anywhere. then the museum assumed the family was right. It looks vastly different from any other Apollo sample.

Actually the ambassador gave the two official sample plaques to Queen Juliana. Nothing was given by anybody to Wilhelm Drees. At the reception for the astronauts everybody received signed photos and other PR stuff along with a simply written card. This card was found inside a drawer along with the supposed moon rock. The rock and card were displayed together which caused the misunderstanding.
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2017, 02:24:33 PM »
Yes,  Rogan's been taken to task before on these and similar errors.  He just doesn't care; he gets too much attention I suppose from repeating them.

The NASA photo archives contain both training and mission photography.  I'm certainly unaware of any instance in which NASA intentionally passed off a training photograph as one taken on a mission.  But I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it happened once or twice accidentally.  There's just too much demand and too much material for that not to have happened by accident.  I am nevertheless aware of several examples in which hoax claimants have tried to pass off training photographs as mission photographs.

Spacecraft Films has high-resolution footage from all the missions, including Apollo 11 television and motion-picture film.  Claims that NASA is hiding footage or releasing only degraded versions of it simply fall flat in the 21st century.

Quite a lot of fringe argumentation alleges "violation of the laws of physics" as a way of begging the question of whether the claimant's understanding is correct.  Ostensibly the claimant sees something in the evidence that, to him, seems wrong.  But casting it as "violating the laws of physics" rather than saying "I don't understand what's happening here" tends to push away the possibility that the claimant's expectations are naive or wrong.  It's usually productive to ask the claimant to delve more deeply into the physics, because usually you find he can't.  That exposes the "laws of physics" smokescreen.  But on the other hand, humans have a very highly adapted intuition for dynamics -- in Earth gravity.  Often you can show that the intuition doesn't hold for different environments.  You compel the claimant to become more intellectually aware of what he takes as intuitive gospel.

It's unfortunate that our subsequent space programs have kept manned spaceflight so close to Earth.  It certainly has not been NASA's desire to do so.  Congress keeps defunding every proposed effort to fly farther.  So it's hard to imagine that NASA supposed desire to keep secret the true hazards of space flight are to blame.  But while humans have stayed close to home, other efforts have not.  Unmanned space missions are just as susceptible as humans to radiation.  More so, because humans have the built-in capacity for healing while electronics do not.  Hence to build spacecraft on a commercial footing to operate in and through the Van Allen belts (e.g., GPS satellites), we still need to have a correct understanding of the trapped radiation environment.  It cannot be credibly argued -- limitations on manned spaceflight notwithstanding -- that NASA is effectively keeping secret the true nature of our environment.  Apollo did not travel through the most intense portions of the Van Allen belts.  As a number of our illustrious members have shown, it's possible to determine from the published data where the spacecraft actually went, and to estimate the dosage they would have received.  Plus, on the subject of whether the Van Allen belts would have posed a problem for the Apollo astronauts, I'll take the word of the astrophysicist who discovered them over the speculation of a comedian.

It's true Nazis (well, to be fair, ex-Nazis) never ran the whole space program.  But some like Dr. von Braun did serve in high positions of authority in NASA.  It's probably true that without the contribution of von Braun and his team the Apollo program would not have been as successful.  So that contribution cannot be overlooked, nor the contributions of the American, Canadian, and English aerospace experts and industries that did the actual building.  But it's not such a polarized situation.  it's not as if the ex-Nazis were the lords and masters of the program, nor that they were merely the slaves of some other NASA overlord.

And of course we've thoroughly investigated what actually happened with the allegedly fake Dutch moonrock.  It was a case of mistaken identity on the Dutch side, having nothing to do with NASA.  But I guess in Rogan's case the facts shouldn't get in the way of an entertaining story.
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Online apollo16uvc

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2017, 02:55:38 PM »

-snip of full quote-

More so, because humans have the built-in capacity for healing while electronics do not.  Hence to build spacecraft on a commercial footing to operate in and through the Van Allen belts (e.g., GPS satellites), we still need to have a correct understanding of the trapped radiation environment.  It cannot be credibly argued -- limitations on manned spaceflight notwithstanding -- that NASA is effectively keeping secret the true nature of our environment.  Apollo did not travel through the most intense portions of the Van Allen belts.  As a number of our illustrious members have shown, it's possible to determine from the published data where the spacecraft actually went, and to estimate the dosage they would have received.  Plus, on the subject of whether the Van Allen belts would have posed a problem for the Apollo astronauts, I'll take the word of the astrophysicist who discovered them over the speculation of a comedian.

-snip of full quote-

And of course we've thoroughly investigated what actually happened with the allegedly fake Dutch moonrock.  It was a case of mistaken identity on the Dutch side, having nothing to do with NASA.  But I guess in Rogan's case the facts shouldn't get in the way of an entertaining story.
Thanks for your thorough explanation.

I think you will like this, the following website talks about the VARB, how Apollo passed through it, and estimates the exposure the astronauts would have gotten: http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/VABraddose.htm

I have seen many different views of the Dutch moon rock. Can you cite or link me some sources that prove your version of the story?

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Offline JayUtah

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2017, 03:08:41 PM »
I think you will like this, the following website talks about the VARB, how Apollo passed through it, and estimates the exposure the astronauts would have gotten: http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/VABraddose.htm

Yep, Bob's a member here and that's the illustrious analysis to which I referred.  I guess I should have promoted his site by name, but I'm glad you found it.

Quote
I have seen many different views of the Dutch moon rock. Can you cite or link me some sources that prove your version of the story?

Not off the top of my head.  I honestly haven't paid that much attention to it since the media fervor died down.  I remember it only took a few days for the media to figure it out, so I'd have to say "my version" is a pastiche of poorly remembered news articles.  I think we had a thread here in the forum on it.  Anyone remember better than I?
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Offline mako88sb

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 03:43:09 PM »

-snip of full quote-

More so, because humans have the built-in capacity for healing while electronics do not.  Hence to build spacecraft on a commercial footing to operate in and through the Van Allen belts (e.g., GPS satellites), we still need to have a correct understanding of the trapped radiation environment.  It cannot be credibly argued -- limitations on manned spaceflight notwithstanding -- that NASA is effectively keeping secret the true nature of our environment.  Apollo did not travel through the most intense portions of the Van Allen belts.  As a number of our illustrious members have shown, it's possible to determine from the published data where the spacecraft actually went, and to estimate the dosage they would have received.  Plus, on the subject of whether the Van Allen belts would have posed a problem for the Apollo astronauts, I'll take the word of the astrophysicist who discovered them over the speculation of a comedian.

-snip of full quote-

And of course we've thoroughly investigated what actually happened with the allegedly fake Dutch moonrock.  It was a case of mistaken identity on the Dutch side, having nothing to do with NASA.  But I guess in Rogan's case the facts shouldn't get in the way of an entertaining story.
Thanks for your thorough explanation.

I think you will like this, the following website talks about the VARB, how Apollo passed through it, and estimates the exposure the astronauts would have gotten: http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/VABraddose.htm

I have seen many different views of the Dutch moon rock. Can you cite or link me some sources that prove your version of the story?

Phil Webb did a 2 part series about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHALUGcEEiQ&t=17s
&
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGQhArtFqIM&t=150s

The actual Moon rock samples given to Holland happened to be in storage at the Boerhaave Museum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNMnPkQZNjk&t=2s

As mentioned in the first video by Phil, the Moon rocks were being kept at the sample facility and the guy in charge was pretty reluctant to allow them to be used as gifts. I read about this in a book titled "Taking Science to the Moon: Lunar Experiments and the Apollo Program" by Donald Beattie back in 2004 long before the supposed fake Dutch moon rock was found.

Online apollo16uvc

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2017, 03:56:27 PM »

-snip of full quote-

More so, because humans have the built-in capacity for healing while electronics do not.  Hence to build spacecraft on a commercial footing to operate in and through the Van Allen belts (e.g., GPS satellites), we still need to have a correct understanding of the trapped radiation environment.  It cannot be credibly argued -- limitations on manned spaceflight notwithstanding -- that NASA is effectively keeping secret the true nature of our environment.  Apollo did not travel through the most intense portions of the Van Allen belts.  As a number of our illustrious members have shown, it's possible to determine from the published data where the spacecraft actually went, and to estimate the dosage they would have received.  Plus, on the subject of whether the Van Allen belts would have posed a problem for the Apollo astronauts, I'll take the word of the astrophysicist who discovered them over the speculation of a comedian.

-snip of full quote-

And of course we've thoroughly investigated what actually happened with the allegedly fake Dutch moonrock.  It was a case of mistaken identity on the Dutch side, having nothing to do with NASA.  But I guess in Rogan's case the facts shouldn't get in the way of an entertaining story.
Thanks for your thorough explanation.

I think you will like this, the following website talks about the VARB, how Apollo passed through it, and estimates the exposure the astronauts would have gotten: http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/VABraddose.htm

I have seen many different views of the Dutch moon rock. Can you cite or link me some sources that prove your version of the story?

Phil Webb did a 2 part series about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHALUGcEEiQ&t=17s
&
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGQhArtFqIM&t=150s

The actual Moon rock samples given to Holland happened to be in storage at the Boerhaave Museum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNMnPkQZNjk&t=2s

As mentioned in the first video by Phil, the Moon rocks were being kept at the sample facility and the guy in charge was pretty reluctant to allow them to be used as gifts. I read about this in a book titled "Taking Science to the Moon: Lunar Experiments and the Apollo Program" by Donald Beattie back in 2004 long before the supposed fake Dutch moon rock was found.
I have seen both of those samples at a museum some years ago!
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Offline bknight

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2017, 04:38:00 PM »
Yes,  Rogan's been taken to task before on these and similar errors.  He just doesn't care; he gets too much attention I suppose from repeating them.

...
Yes narcissistic was the term I was struggling to remember earlier in my post.  I attempted many basic physics principles with him to no avail.  I finally asked if he was as stupid as his posts sounded and ended with I can't converse with such ignorance.

Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
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Offline Kiwi

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 10:52:03 AM »
Come on, ApolloHoax members, some of you are behaving like the very worst hoax-believers -- jumping to dumb conclusions about information you have not examined.  Shame on you!

Until viewing this thread I had no idea who or what Joe Rogan is -- I had merely heard his name on two or three occasions and had no reason to take much notice. So, I had no particular reason to either praise or belittle the guy, but now I have reason to admire him.

Some of you are clearly ignorant of the fact that in the video linked in post 1 by apollo16uvc,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mmlmxamw_k
Rogan says he was once a moon-landing-hoax-believer and explains, in his obvious fairly-ignorant-about-the-moon-landings way, that he has since changed his mind, and why. In fact, he makes it clear that he has since applied a little logic in ways that he hadn't done before.

So before unfairly slagging off the guy any more, please first acquaint yourselves with the facts and think about congratulating him on going public about his change of mind.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 11:44:51 AM by Kiwi »
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Offline JayUtah

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 03:42:42 PM »
Point well taken; I just followed the bullet points in the original post because I was not in a position to watch the video.
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Offline Bryanpoprobson

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 04:32:19 AM »
I do throw the fact that Joe Rogan has changed his mind at people who quote him, prior to his "seeing the light" moment.
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Offline Kiwi

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2017, 04:37:33 AM »
Point well taken; I just followed the bullet points in the original post because I was not in a position to watch the video.

Thanks, Jay, you have previously mentioned not being able to view videos at times, so I thought that might have been the case.

After reading Joe Rogan's Wikipedia biography I finally worked out were I had heard him. It would have years ago when he hosted Fear Factor and I watched bits of two or three episodes.  Soon lost interest when people tried to drop objects from a fast-moving helicopter onto large targets and didn't even work out that they had to take into account the motion of the helicopter, or that it was probably best to just quietly let the object go and observe its fall rather than throw it hard. Still, they probably had to act up for the cameras.

It would be great if someone could take Rogan in hand now and get rid of most of his remaining doubts and educate him enough so that he can at least believe that Mercury, Gemini and Apollo really did accomplish what they are claimed to have done. A public figure like he is who has crossed over from the dark side could be a great aid for educating the public. There's often no greater reformer than a reformed person, although some reformed people go very much over the top.

Rogan is just another example of so many hoax-believers -- ignorant about Apollo so when they see and hear some of the hoax claims it all seems very plausible. I think he remarked in the video about how convincing some of the claims were that the astronauts were held up by wires, and to me they certainly would be convincing when combined with one-sixth G, the flashes that occurred due to the kinescope process, hoax-promoters' cherry picking, the reaction of the TV camera to bright light, and the antennas on top of the PLSSes reflecting the sun. Most people wouldn't know that the antennas were shaped like a carpenter's rule instead of like the usual tubular retractable aerial.

And, of course, people never comment that they saw those same antennas reflecting the black lunar sky or the other astronaut or the LM or the lunar surface -- only ever the sun. Nor do they watch many long minutes of continuous and unedited EVA TV of astronauts close to the camera and moving far away then back again, and the TV camera tilting and panning up and down and around, with never a studio light or gantry or wire anywhere in sight.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 04:54:03 AM by Kiwi »
Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)
Some people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices and superstitions. — Edward R. Murrow (1908–65)

Offline bknight

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Re: Joe Rogan on Apollo hoax.
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2017, 10:09:03 AM »
After Kiwi referenced the video, I watched it and was pleasantly surprised, but still somewhat skeptical.  In the video he answers the black guys question to the effect that he is on the side of Apollo landings, but he is sitting on the fence of stupidity.  And as Kiwi posted it would be helpful for someone to take him in hand and teach him some basic physics, observational procedures and logic.
Never once in the video when asked by the black guy about certain aspects, Joe, answers "I don't know/understand" or this could have been the case or that could have been the case.  He never answered that one of his possibilities is that Apollo indeed occurred and any of the "anomalies" were not anomalies and that is how it happened in reality.
He still has a way to go in understanding and accepting Apollo, but the "anomalies" don't point to his believing a hoax was produced by NASA.
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