Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 12022 times)

Offline Geordie

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #330 on: August 12, 2017, 05:49:05 PM »
After a series of moves similar to two thugs in a bar who keep deliberately provoking each other to draw their guns. Unfortunately, it may lead to massive loss of life among the other bar patrons who had nothing to do with it.

Yeah, except one is holding a single shot Webley Air Pistol and the other is holding 50 calibre Desert Eagle with a 7 round clip and one in the chamber (and a couple of full spare clips in his pocket)
This might be a case of the US bringing a gun to a knife fight. Any military conflict would be much different than, say, the Toyota war. A large or modern nuclear arsenal is not necessary to bring a world of hurt to South Korea. The DPRK has huge numbers of conventional artillery massed along the border. Huge, I say.

It's not just the .50 cal. Desert Eagle that makes the US hyperpowerful, but also the high level of professionalism displayed by the troops. How professional is the North Korean soldiery? We don't know, although it sure would be easy to find out. My guess is that they are "pretty professional."

We do know that since '94, Songun - a policy of "military first" - has been central to North Korea. The Korean People's Army wants for nothing, period. This is a nation-state, not some irregular force holed up in a desert or a jungle, improvising explosive devices and conducting raids on or even capturing and holding cities.

It might be useful to remember that North Korea exists because the last time we (Canada and whoever else) traded shots with them, we gave up, because they were too bad*ss.

But how bad can things get when they have aligned themselves with most of the world in one small but crucial detail: unlike regional isolationists Japan and Hong Kong, they drive on the right.
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             She's on fire\  With the heat of the beat right beneath her feet\
              She's on fire\  And the name of the game is to fuel her flame\
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Offline raven

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #331 on: August 12, 2017, 06:57:45 PM »
Even if Trump wanted to do what Macarthur wanted to do and glass North Korea, how much  would the literal  fallout affect South Korea and/pr China? Not to mention the suffering of the North Korean people, who have done nothing to deserve the hellhole their government has created. It's not a big country. It's only a bit bigger than Pennsylvania. It wouldn't take much before there was nothing worthwhile left. Seriously, Trump needs to stop waving his nuclear dick around and . . . actually, I'd prefer if he just bloody stopped.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 07:03:36 PM by raven »

Offline Glom

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #332 on: August 12, 2017, 07:52:43 PM »
After a series of moves similar to two thugs in a bar who keep deliberately provoking each other to draw their guns. Unfortunately, it may lead to massive loss of life among the other bar patrons who had nothing to do with it.

Yeah, except one is holding a single shot Webley Air Pistol and the other is holding 50 calibre Desert Eagle with a 7 round clip and one in the chamber (and a couple of full spare clips in his pocket)
This might be a case of the US bringing a gun to a knife fight. Any military conflict would be much different than, say, the Toyota war. A large or modern nuclear arsenal is not necessary to bring a world of hurt to South Korea. The DPRK has huge numbers of conventional artillery massed along the border. Huge, I say.

It's not just the .50 cal. Desert Eagle that makes the US hyperpowerful, but also the high level of professionalism displayed by the troops. How professional is the North Korean soldiery? We don't know, although it sure would be easy to find out. My guess is that they are "pretty professional."

We do know that since '94, Songun - a policy of "military first" - has been central to North Korea. The Korean People's Army wants for nothing, period. This is a nation-state, not some irregular force holed up in a desert or a jungle, improvising explosive devices and conducting raids on or even capturing and holding cities.

It might be useful to remember that North Korea exists because the last time we (Canada and whoever else) traded shots with them, we gave up, because they were too bad*ss.

But how bad can things get when they have aligned themselves with most of the world in one small but crucial detail: unlike regional isolationists Japan and Hong Kong, they drive on the right.
Hey. Civilised countries drive on the left. There's Ireland.

Offline twik

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #333 on: August 14, 2017, 11:09:14 AM »
It seems like Trump also can't bring himself to condemn literal Nazis. It might hurt Bannon and Miller's feelings, I guess.

Offline twik

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #334 on: August 18, 2017, 09:38:19 AM »
Another example of Trump's tendency to lie like a rug. Here's the Washington Post's summary of how violence broke out at Charlottesville. The "alt-left" charging into peaceful statue-lovers clutching their permits is noticeably missing:

Quote
Charlottesville Police Chief Al S. Thomas Jr. said the rallygoers went back on a plan that would have kept them separated from the counterprotesters. Instead of coming in at one entrance, he said, they came in from all sides. Headlong into the counterprotesters.

A few minutes before 11 a.m., a swelling group of white nationalists carrying large shields and long wooden clubs approached the park on Market Street. About two dozen counterprotesters formed a line across the street, blocking their path. With a roar, the marchers charged through the line, swinging sticks, punching and spraying chemicals.

Offline Glom

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #335 on: August 18, 2017, 10:43:38 AM »
This is probably more a case of amorality rather than immorality. It's not that he is a KKK fan per se. He lacks the moral centre to care. It's that he hates being challenged and if putting down challenge means supporting the KKK then whatever.

Offline twik

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #336 on: August 18, 2017, 11:21:33 AM »
On the other hand, Trump has repeatedly claimed "good genes," and has since his early days been attacked for racist real estate practices.

I think he is a true racist, and can't understand why people are treating those "alt-left" protesters as better than those nice white men, many of whom were wearing MAGA insignia. He's starting to go off on neoConfederate talking points already.

Offline gillianren

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #337 on: August 18, 2017, 11:57:30 AM »
It might be useful to remember that North Korea exists because the last time we (Canada and whoever else) traded shots with them, we gave up, because they were too bad*ss.

It also had a bit to do with China.

It's disheartening to discover how racist some of my friends' friends are.  I need to stop arguing with them; it doesn't convince them, and it just makes me feel worse.
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Offline jfb

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #338 on: August 18, 2017, 12:06:09 PM »
Meanwhile, Kim Jong Un is standing over in the corner, waving his arms frantically, and yelling, "hey, imperialist pigs, remember me?  Still have nukes, still working on missiles."

Not that honest-to-God Nazis aren't a thing to get exercised about (especially when they kill a counter-protester and call it a good day), but...


Offline twik

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #339 on: August 18, 2017, 01:39:32 PM »
Meanwhile, Kim Jong Un is standing over in the corner, waving his arms frantically, and yelling, "hey, imperialist pigs, remember me?  Still have nukes, still working on missiles."

Not that honest-to-God Nazis aren't a thing to get exercised about (especially when they kill a counter-protester and call it a good day), but...

Actually, he's sort of shut up. Almost as if when no one engages him (and China tells him that if he starts a shooting war, he's on his own), he crawls back into his shell.

If Steven Bannon is right about anything, it's that there's no military solution to the NK problem. Whatever the solution, threatening nuclear destruction (and then having your staff tell the public not to worry, we're just kidding) isn't it.

Offline Geordie

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #340 on: August 19, 2017, 01:34:05 AM »
It might be useful to remember that North Korea exists because the last time we (Canada and whoever else) traded shots with them, we gave up, because they were too bad*ss.

It also had a bit to do with China.

It's disheartening to discover how racist some of my friends' friends are.  I need to stop arguing with them; it doesn't convince them, and it just makes me feel worse.

Yes, you're right, it certainly did. A lot of time has passed since then, time for them to drill endlessly, and build up a serious arsenal.

But yeah, without that bottomless supply line, they probably wouldn't last terribly long. The chinese would rather supply us with consumer goods, and get hard cash and goodwill in return.

I don't think the DPRK will fold like Saddam's forces in Desert Storm, though, and when they do go down, it will be in a spectacular fashion.

But as others have said, the regime is not suicidal. I don't think there is going to be any pitched Korean War-style battles in this current round of trumped-up crises.

As far as racists go, there is a naziesque rally planned for tomorrow, here in Vancouver. We shall see how that plays out. My prediction is it will be attended by a couple thousand antis, a couple hundred reporters, and a small basket of deplorables.

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« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 01:40:13 AM by Geordie »
.           She's on fire\  And she burns through the night at the speed of light\
             She's on fire\  With the heat of the beat right beneath her feet\
              She's on fire\  And the name of the game is to fuel her flame\
               She's on fire, fire, fire, fire, fire!

Offline Geordie

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #341 on: August 19, 2017, 07:23:00 PM »
It's disheartening to discover how racist some of my friends' friends are.  I need to stop arguing with them; it doesn't convince them, and it just makes me feel worse.
As far as racists go, there is a naziesque rally planned for tomorrow, here in Vancouver. We shall see how that plays out. My prediction is it will be attended by a couple thousand antis, a couple hundred reporters, and a small basket of deplorables.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/anti-racism-rally-vancouver-city-hall-1.4253117
"Around 4,000 people showed up at Vancouver City Hall to protest against a far-right rally on Saturday afternoon."
"By 3 p.m., a handful of far-right protesters appeared to have gathered."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/anti-racism-rally-boston-1.4254282
Boston's so-called 'Free Speech' rally had 40,000 people show up to protest hate speech. Good for them.

.           She's on fire\  And she burns through the night at the speed of light\
             She's on fire\  With the heat of the beat right beneath her feet\
              She's on fire\  And the name of the game is to fuel her flame\
               She's on fire, fire, fire, fire, fire!

Offline raven

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #342 on: August 20, 2017, 12:06:20 AM »
I like how Vancouver handled it.

Offline Glom

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #343 on: October 26, 2017, 03:05:56 PM »
Holy...

I'm watching this BBC Four series about the Vietnam War.

Just got to the bit about how Nixon sabotaged peace talks in the runup to the 1968 election to help his campaign. That is so low real numbers can't quantify it. At least Trump hasn't yet gone that low.

Though after seeing the bit about John McCain's captivity, it makes Trump's remarks about McCain all the more despicable. Still not as bad as extending a terrible war for personal political gain though.

Offline jfb

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #344 on: October 26, 2017, 05:47:16 PM »
Holy...

I'm watching this BBC Four series about the Vietnam War.

Just got to the bit about how Nixon sabotaged peace talks in the runup to the 1968 election to help his campaign. That is so low real numbers can't quantify it. At least Trump hasn't yet gone that low.

That we know of.  Yet.  Mueller's investigation is still ongoing.

Quote
Though after seeing the bit about John McCain's captivity, it makes Trump's remarks about McCain all the more despicable. Still not as bad as extending a terrible war for personal political gain though.

The sad thing is that apart from that and Watergate (and the secret bombings, and...), Nixon was one of the more effective Presidents of the 20th century (along with Johnson, who was also a complete reprobate).  He normalized relations with China, signed off on establishing the Environmental Protection Agency and the Occupational Health and Safety Administration, established programs to treat drug addiction as a public health issue as well as a law enforcement issue, etc., etc. 

Yes, he was a nasty, venal, bitter, paranoid sonofabitch, whose advanced his career through dirty tricks and character assassination, and honestly we'd be better off as a nation had he stayed a small-time lawyer in California, but Nixon was not going to be small-time.