Author Topic: Reading the Warren Report  (Read 4403 times)

Offline ka9q

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2016, 06:58:25 AM »
The other thing about the so-called "magic bullet" that's lost on many people is the specific type of bullet Oswald used: copper-jacketed military ammunition. This allowed the bullet to remain intact as it passed through JFK's neck, going on to hit JBC in the back. People are more familiar with soft lead bullets that readily deform and fragment, so they can't understand how a bullet could do all that and still emerge supposedly "pristine" -- though an end-on view of the bullet shows it was anything but.

IMHO, elaborate computer modeling of the geometry was interesting but unnecessary to demonstrate that the bullet that hit JBC in the back had already passed through JFK's neck. JBC had an oval entrance wound, and a bullet that had traveled such a short distance could not possibly do this unless it had already passed through something on the way that upset its stable spin.

Offline bknight

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2016, 07:32:05 AM »
When you get to the part about the "single bullet theory" (a.k.a.  the "magic" bullet) give me a call. I can show you that there was no magic.

Oh, I'm perfectly aware, and even if I weren't, the report does explain the relevant placement and all that.  No diagrams, which would have been helpful if I hadn't already seen them about fifty other places, but anyone who can read the report's description of the angles and still come away believing that the bullet had to do anything unexpected needs to have their reading comprehension checked. 

As to the security of the building, I can almost get where the Dallas PD was coming from, but boy, the way they handled things could so easily have tanked the trial had Oswald lived.  Giving out every little detail of an active police investigation is a bad idea.  No wonder the literature is so full of contradictions; people were clearly telling things to the press before those things were confirmed.  Though Mark Lane has appeared in the bit I've gotten to, clearly lying.
The diagrams of the actual positions of both men clearly take the "evidence" of the bullet changing directions, which was one of Jim Garrison's main points.
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Offline gillianren

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2016, 01:04:35 PM »
The diagrams of the actual positions of both men clearly take the "evidence" of the bullet changing directions, which was one of Jim Garrison's main points.

Only the faulty ones.  I've seen plenty of diagrams that do take into account the logistics of the jump seat and the angle Connally was probably turned at the time and make it clear that the only changes in angle happen when the bullet has hit something that causes a change in trajectory.
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Offline smartcooky

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2016, 05:50:37 PM »
When you get to the part about the "single bullet theory" (a.k.a.  the "magic" bullet) give me a call. I can show you that there was no magic.

Oh, I'm perfectly aware, and even if I weren't, the report does explain the relevant placement and all that.  No diagrams, which would have been helpful if I hadn't already seen them about fifty other places, but anyone who can read the report's description of the angles and still come away believing that the bullet had to do anything unexpected needs to have their reading comprehension checked. 

As to the security of the building, I can almost get where the Dallas PD was coming from, but boy, the way they handled things could so easily have tanked the trial had Oswald lived.  Giving out every little detail of an active police investigation is a bad idea.  No wonder the literature is so full of contradictions; people were clearly telling things to the press before those things were confirmed.  Though Mark Lane has appeared in the bit I've gotten to, clearly lying.
The diagrams of the actual positions of both men clearly take the "evidence" of the bullet changing directions, which was one of Jim Garrison's main points.


But the diagrams he used were incorrect

1. He did not take account of the fact that in the Presidential Limo (a 1961 Lincoln Continental Convertible) the passenger seating positions are not longitudinally aligned. The front passenger is lower and slightly inboard (left).

2. At the time of the second bullet (the first one to hit JFK) Governor Connelly was turned to the right (probably because he heard the first shot come from behind him to the right.

When you take account of these two facts... voila!



The need for a "magic bullet" evaporates. It travels "through and through" JFK's neck, "through and through" JBC to the left of his armpit,  "through and through" his wrist and embeds into his lower thigh in pretty much a straight line!

NOTE: No 2 above is probably quite a good indication that shots did not come from the infamous grassy knoll, otherwise JBC might have turned to his left, not his right.
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Offline bknight

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2016, 06:19:59 PM »
Perhaps I was not clear in my meaning.  The accurate diagram of the body placement completely destroyed Jim Garrison's belief and description of the bullets trajectory.
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Offline gillianren

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2016, 07:14:45 PM »
Maybe you meant "take care of"?
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Offline ka9q

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2016, 12:07:28 AM »
NOTE: No 2 above is probably quite a good indication that shots did not come from the infamous grassy knoll, otherwise JBC might have turned to his left, not his right.
Which is strong evidence that the first shot missed, because that's what caused JBC to turn to his right. I think he was just starting to turn back when he got hit by the second shot, though he may not have realized it instantly. Strange as it seems, apparently it's common for people to get shot and not immediately know it. IIRC, for JBC that happened on his next breath, when he felt excruciating pain as his now-broken ribcage expanded.

Offline gillianren

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2016, 03:11:05 AM »
Wait, wasn't the grassy knoll to their right?  Or have I gotten directions mixed up?
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Offline ka9q

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2016, 04:35:47 AM »
Wait, wasn't the grassy knoll to their right?  Or have I gotten directions mixed up?
Elm Street is a sharp left and then curves right as it goes downhill, so the infamous Grassy Knoll (specifically the spot west of the pagoda where the "second shooter" was alleged to be) was more like directly ahead of the limousine immediately after the turn, when the first shot occurred and JBC turned to his right to look for the source.

Offline bknight

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2016, 09:55:19 AM »
Wait, wasn't the grassy knoll to their right?  Or have I gotten directions mixed up?
Elm Street is a sharp left and then curves right as it goes downhill, so the infamous Grassy Knoll (specifically the spot west of the pagoda where the "second shooter" was alleged to be) was more like directly ahead of the limousine immediately after the turn, when the first shot occurred and JBC turned to his right to look for the source.
As did the secret service agents in the motorcade did.
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Offline smartcooky

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2016, 04:28:36 PM »
Wait, wasn't the grassy knoll to their right?  Or have I gotten directions mixed up?


Yes it was, but perhaps I didn't explain it well,

JBC turned right around to his right so that his head was facing in the direction of the TSBD where the shots came from.



If the shots had come from the grassy knoll, which was ahead of them and to the right (and assuming that it was the shooter JBC was looking for) I would have expected to see him looking more or less towards the camera, i.e about 45° left of where he was looking, as Zapruder was standing at the end of the pergola nearest the grassy knoll. Zapruder would have been directly in line with any shooter there.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 05:14:14 PM by smartcooky »
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Offline gillianren

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2016, 10:35:03 PM »
Well, yeah, that's why I was confused.  He definitely would have been looking straight at Zapruder if he'd heard shots coming from the theoretical grassy knoll shooter, who was allegedly behind Zapruder.  Who, as I recall, thought the shots were coming from the TSBD and definitely didn't think they'd come from over his shoulder.  Either way, though, it's not Connally's left.  I was confused by that.
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Offline bknight

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2016, 10:54:55 AM »
Actually Zapruder's position is slightly forward and left (in relation to Grassy Knoll, behind)of the alleged Grassy Knoll position
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/an-interactive-3d-model-of-the-jfk-assassination-site-grassy-knoll-and-all-180947812/?no-ist
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Offline Allan F

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2016, 11:28:43 AM »
NatGeo has done some investigation, and has apparently discovered some details in old photographs, which show a defect in a traffic light after the shooting, which might be the first bullet impact. That traffic light has since been replaced, so there is no way to verify if it was a bullet impact or not.

The traffic light was just below LHO's position, and it could very well have been in the path of the first shot.
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Offline bknight

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Re: Reading the Warren Report
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2016, 11:41:56 AM »
NatGeo has done some investigation, and has apparently discovered some details in old photographs, which show a defect in a traffic light after the shooting, which might be the first bullet impact. That traffic light has since been replaced, so there is no way to verify if it was a bullet impact or not.

The traffic light was just below LHO's position, and it could very well have been in the path of the first shot.
Do you have a link to the video?  All I got was a bunch of stills and from the look of the stills any shot to the traffic signal would have happened way too early for the reactions of those that heard the shot.
Truth needs no defense.  Nobody can take those footsteps I made on the surface of the moon away from me.
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