Author Topic: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?  (Read 224991 times)

Offline nomuse

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #360 on: February 04, 2015, 01:34:30 AM »
And my collection of "tells" has reached a number close enough to certainty. I could even point to the post, and the single character that tipped it for me, but the weight of the tells is quite sufficient now.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #361 on: February 04, 2015, 04:40:03 AM »
Romulus,
Can you acknowledge post 258 please?
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline Peter B

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #362 on: February 04, 2015, 10:32:54 AM »
What would disprove Apollo?  How about an alternate explanation for the evidence?  And that's all the evidence, not a cherry-picked data point or three.  When the rockets were launched, where did they go?  How were the radio transmissions faked?  The viewings from Earth?  The photos?  The film?  The TV transmissions?  The rocks?  The core samples?  There are literally tons of evidence, and if Apollo was faked, so was all the evidence.  How?

Since I can explain every one of those pieces of evidence with an alternate possibility, it is up to you to prove them. If you wish i will post those alternate explainations.

I, for one, would be very interested in your alternate possibility regarding the rocks. For me they represent one of the strongest pieces of evidence for the reality of Apollo.

So, to get things rolling, how about I provide some of what I consider to be the positive evidence for the reality of Apollo.

1. The Apollo rocks show characteristics unlike rocks on Earth. For example the chemicals they consist of contain virtually no water, they show evidence of having formed in a vacuum, and they show evidence of having formed in a low gravity environment. There is no mechanism available on Earth to change terrestrial rocks in such a way to make them look like they came from the Moon. Therefore the Apollo rocks aren't altered Earth rocks.

2. The Apollo rocks total about 380 kilograms, collected over six missions. The Soviets, by contrast, collected about 350 grams of material in three unmanned sample retriever missions. In other words, the Americans recovered roughly 1000 times as much material on their missions as the Soviets did. The Apollo rocks include core samples over 2 metres long, rocks over 10kg and soft clods of compressed soil. There is no evidence that the Americans ever designed, built or operated unmanned sample retriever missions capable of retrieving this amount of material. Therefore, the Apollo rocks aren't genuine Moon rocks collected from the Moon by unmanned missions.

3. The Apollo rocks show the effects of exposure on the surface of the Moon. Upper surfaces of rocks show alteration by solar radiation, and are also marked by tiny craters - zap pits - caused by the high-speed impact of dust particles. Some Moon rocks have been found in Antarctica as lunar meteorites. However, these rocks show alteration caused by the high-speed passage through the Earth's atmosphere, and contamination caused by sitting on the surface of the Earth. There is no mechanism to fake the effects of solar radiation or to fake zap pits, meaning it isn't possible to take lunar meteorites collected on Earth and alter them in any way to pass them off as rocks collected on the Moon. Therefore, the Apollo rocks aren't genuine Moon rocks which reached the Earth as meteorites and were then altered.

4. As the Apollo rocks can't be altered Earth rocks, can't be genuine Moon rocks collected by unmanned sample retriever missions, and can't be altered lunar meteorites, the only possible explanation for the existence of the Apollo rocks is that they're genuine Moon rocks collected from the Moon by astronauts.

I would be grateful for any comments you could make in refutation.

Thank you.

Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #363 on: February 04, 2015, 11:23:35 AM »
What would disprove Apollo?  How about an alternate explanation for the evidence?  And that's all the evidence, not a cherry-picked data point or three.  When the rockets were launched, where did they go?  How were the radio transmissions faked?  The viewings from Earth?  The photos?  The film?  The TV transmissions?  The rocks?  The core samples?  There are literally tons of evidence, and if Apollo was faked, so was all the evidence.  How?

Since I can explain every one of those pieces of evidence with an alternate possibility, it is up to you to prove them. If you wish i will post those alternate explainations.

No that's NOT how this works. >:(

The Lunar samples have been studied by some of the world's eminent geologists. Many, many papers have been written by those geologists. The papers, along with the credentials of the authors are in the public domain.

It is not up to gillianren to defend those findings. If you wish to critique any of those findings, then author a paper and submit it for peer-review along with your credentials in the field.  As an alleged scientist  ::) you will know how peer-review works. For you to even consider that it is up to a total stranger on a small website to defend the peer-reviewed works of experts in the field is ridiculous.
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline ineluki

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #364 on: February 04, 2015, 11:59:15 AM »

By revealing personal information such as this you are able to identify your adversary, which is not something I intend to allow. That said, I do not believe great men such as Nicola Tesla should be ignored by science

Coming late to this thread, I could not help to notice this false claim:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#Things_named_after_Tesla

Isn't it funny that "someone who is ignored by science" even got an unit named after him?

Tesla, an SI-derived unit of magnetic flux density (or magnetic inductivity)


Makes one really wonder about the quality of the other "research" done by Romulus

Offline Bob B.

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #365 on: February 04, 2015, 12:12:30 PM »
Isn't it funny that "someone who is ignored by science" even got an unit named after him?

I had to shake my head at that one too.  Tesla is widely regarded as one of the greatest engineers/inventors of all time.  His contributions are hardly ignored.

Offline gillianren

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #366 on: February 04, 2015, 12:31:47 PM »
But by not accepting all of them, even the manifestly crazy ones that didn't actually work, we are tarnishing his reputation, I tells you.  Tarnishing!
"This sounds like a job for Bipolar Bear . . . but I just can't seem to get out of bed!"

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Offline Zakalwe

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #367 on: February 04, 2015, 01:56:05 PM »
Standard crank-magnetism at work. Belieives the Moon landings are hoax: Check Believes that Tesla was an ignored genius: Check. All we now need is some 9/11 or Nibiru action....  ::) :P
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' " - Isaac Asimov

Offline frenat

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #368 on: February 04, 2015, 03:05:49 PM »

I assure you that Jay Windley is no match for myself intellectually or academically. And I'll tell you something else, HE KNOWS IT. What he doesn't know is who he is insulting and demeaning, which is always the mark of an idiot.
This sounds awfully similar to a recent pompous claim from IDW on GLP.  Are you IDW?  He shares the same obsession with Jay that you do.
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Offline Dr.Acula

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #369 on: February 04, 2015, 03:08:38 PM »
Standard crank-magnetism at work. Belieives the Moon landings are hoax: Check Believes that Tesla was an ignored genius: Check. All we now need is some 9/11 or Nibiru action....  ::) :P

This fits my IDW-checklist either  ;D
I'm still waiting for the next points: evil jews, evil freemasons, holocaust was faked.
Mr. Hawkins, this alleged half-breed Indian (or was it quarter-breed? I don't care), is easy to spot.  ;D
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Offline nomuse

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #370 on: February 04, 2015, 03:33:47 PM »
Not as easy as the late (?) Doctor Socks. He just enjoyed the fake biographies he came up with too much to abandon them, as well as the impressions he was too tone-deaf to carry out successfully. Well, that and the coprophilia. 


Oddly enough, I was just at dinner with a 33rd degree.  Was working at the temple the last couple of weeks (but they weren't the ones signing my checks).
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 03:36:58 PM by nomuse »

Offline Luke Pemberton

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #371 on: February 04, 2015, 03:46:52 PM »
I'm still waiting for the next points: evil jews, evil freemasons, holocaust was faked.

I have a cunning plan.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein.

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Offline Rob260259

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #372 on: February 04, 2015, 04:06:54 PM »
I'm still waiting for the next points: evil jews, evil freemasons, holocaust was faked.

I have a cunning plan.

Luke, I've seen many of these truthers. Most of them lack self esteem. Because they are so embarrassed at how dumb their comments and 'contributions' are, they seem to create Walter Mitty fantasies where they are the internet James Bond, 'defeating' the most diabolical minds in history. All through a few, quick Google searches from the basement. They have a bizzare, Scooby Do Fantasy where Cheney and Bush, while getting handcuffed look them in the eye and say: "We would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids!" Many of them probably dress as Thelma.

Offline JayUtah

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #373 on: February 04, 2015, 04:08:43 PM »
This sounds awfully similar to a recent pompous claim from IDW on GLP.  Are you IDW?  He shares the same obsession with Jay that you do.

And the same inability to have a science discussion in anything but vague, dogmatic absolutes.

http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?62859-1st-Question-How-was-the-Apollo-space-craft-cooled
"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams

Offline smartcooky

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Re: Is the Scientific Process, Standards of Proof ignored by NASA Supporters?
« Reply #374 on: February 04, 2015, 06:16:46 PM »
This sounds awfully similar to a recent pompous claim from IDW on GLP.  Are you IDW?  He shares the same obsession with Jay that you do.

And the same inability to have a science discussion in anything but vague, dogmatic absolutes.

http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php?62859-1st-Question-How-was-the-Apollo-space-craft-cooled


Ooh, these comments are telling...

Count Zero: "IDW has questions he wants addressed about the veracity of Apollo. He started one thread about the structure of the discussion, now he is beginning the discussion itself."

Same Modus Operandi - Starting a thread to try to dictate the framework of the discussion in order to suppress dissenting views, then starting a discussion thread.

Interdimensional Warrior: "....and why was the crew cabin on the A13 LEM said to be cold on the way back? This question will require a basic knowledge of physics to answer, and without relying on any of the Apollo details or specifics."

Same Modus Operandi again - Asking a question and then trying to limit the allowed answers to try force the answer he wants.

He appears stupid enough to think that we are too stupid to spot what he is trying to do.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 06:23:36 PM by smartcooky »
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.